Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[carbonjam72]

In addition to this issue, I think it's also worth remembering that another - potentially highly inflammatory - issue might rear its head when the SC motivations come out.

It revolves around the "other attackers" factor. In its motivation on today's verdict, the SC will have to explain whether a) it concluded that it still agrees with the Guede SC ruling that there were multiple attackers, and that it doesn't find that Knox or Sollecito were those additional attackers; or b) it concluded that in fact there was probably only one attacker - Guede - and that this is one of the reasons behind the immediate acquittals of Knox and Sollecito. And of course, if it's (b), then Guede is notionally entitled to a full review of his case and potentially even a retrial, since the SC would effectively be overturning a finding of fact that was rubber-stamped by the SC as part of his original conviction.

I therefore suspect that this latest SC motivation might prevaricate somewhat on this issue. They might, for example, say that in their view it's impossible to say whether the crime was committed by one or more than one assailant, and that since there's no evidence against Knox or Sollecito, they cannot be considered as additional assailants - even if additional assailants did participate in the crime.....

I think the motivations report will state the obvious, that its not ok to import facts from one case to another, where the facts were never contested, and the defendants were denied an opportunity to refute the evidence placed against them.

Cassation could do a great service to Italian justice by outlining all the things that went wrong in this case, and all the protections that Knox and Sollecito were entitled to but did not receive, both under the Italian constitution and ECHR case law.

Holy crap, what a day.

 

[Planigale]

Now Yummi has written

But there is one thing I want to tell you: Vecchiotti and Hellmann are not off, we will go and get them.
I believe we will expose the whole thing in the end, like in the Ustica massacre.

The person who could write that may be clinically insane.

Mach was always a bit weak on the science (e.g. DNA not being a protein) so I wouldn't worry about this. I actually feel a bit sorry for the camp followers on PMF they have invested a lot of emotion (and not much intellect) into the campaign for Sollecito and Knox's guilt. It must be immensely distressing for them.

 

[LondonJohn]

I think the motivations report will state the obvious, that its not ok to import facts from one case to another, where the facts were never contested, and the defendants were denied an opportunity to refute the evidence placed against them.

Cassation could do a great service to Italian justice by outlining all the things that went wrong in this case, and all the protections that Knox and Sollecito were entitled to but did not receive, both under the Italian constitution and ECHR case law.

Holy crap, what a day.

I think they would have to kick that matter up to the Constitutional Court - but I agree that it's something that could and should be addressed. It would take a Constitutional Court ruling to alter the law in such a way though. This case could provide a pretty exemplary example of just why such a change is needed.....

 

[Diocletus]

I think the motivations report will state the obvious, that its not ok to import facts from one case to another, where the facts were never contested, and the defendants were denied an opportunity to refute the evidence placed against them.

Cassation could do a great service to Italian justice by outlining all the things that went wrong in this case, and all the protections that Knox and Sollecito were entitled to but did not receive, both under the Italian constitution and ECHR case law.

Holy crap, what a day.

Yup, they're going back to square one: no imported facts from Rudy's trial, the coerced statements can't be used.

The real loser here is chiefi. What a moron.

 

[Rolfe]

I went over for a look at PMF (bad move, I know). Did anyone else notice this? Just before the acquittals were announced.

I am probably one of the few PhD scientists that visit this site that was working at a non-profit institution that was offering STR testing when Miss Kercher was murdered. I looked at numerous electropherograms in the time period and despised mixed samples. We simply did not have the software necessary to effectively distinguish between the peaks in mixed samples unless there were only two individuals or cell lines ; and one was in great excess compared to the other.

Don't believe everything "leaked" by the police. Look at the electropherograms yourself. Pick out the peaks. Miss Kercher's peaks are in great excess, but who are those other guys/girls present? Which peaks do you choose and group together? There is clearly stutter and degradation present in the sample. This is what the scientists at the appeal meant when they threw out the bra clasp data. Early on, the police "leaked" that nanogram quantities of Knife Boy's DNA was found on the bra clasp and I jumped onboard proclaiming his guilt. Then I saw the electropherogram and felt like a damn fool.

Although I work in a lab that does PCR testing I'm not a molecular biologist and I don't have that level of detail. However, that description of the bra clasp results is exactly as I picked it up from the original discussions of the C&V report. I'm still unconvinced that Sollecito's DNA was ever on the bra clasp.

 

[carbonjam72]

Right now, Raffaele has compensation due for four years unjust imprisonment and Amanda for one year (3 years imprisonment for her is still considered just).

I don't know what that amounts to.

I think you're right about clearing names.

Yup, you're right on Amanda getting comped at one year, at least until ECHR makes mincemeat out of that conviction, then I'd expect Italy to cough up the rest.

Legal fees I would assume are a given, to both.

What happens next to Stefanoni, Mignini, Ficarra, Zugarini, Napoleone, and that whole clown car? and btw, Matteini, Richiardi?, Micheli, Massei, Nencini? They just skate?

 

[Strozzi]

The debate is over, LJ. The rest is mopping up (await the motivation and the outcome of the ECHR appeal). My main concern now is: WTF are we supposed to talk about now?

We could discuss whether Greece should leave the Euro! What do you think, Anglolawyer? How about you, LJ? Dr. Nancy, any thoughts?

 

[LondonJohn]

I went over for a look at PMF (bad move, I know). Did anyone else notice this? Just before the acquittals were announced.




Although I work in a lab that does PCR testing I'm not a molecular biologist and I don't have that level of detail. However, that description of the bra clasp results is exactly as I picked it up from the original discussions of the C&V report. I'm still unconvinced that Sollecito's DNA was ever on the bra clasp.

Gosh no, I totally missed that. And yes, Greggy is representing the situation accurately and truthfully.

Maybe it was that post (alongside a couple of others) that were behind the strange way in which the boards went to "members only" status from about 30 minutes before the verdict to an hour or so afterwards............

 

[Kauffer]

How about this from Jackie at PMF

Re: XXXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 24, 2015 -
by Jackie » 28 Mar 2015, 01:15

"If the administration of justice in Italy is corrupt/ for sale/ subject to political influence/ etc., then one has to really question whether they were on the right track in the first place."

That's a turnaround.

 

[Samson]

I am anticipating CoulsdonUK to post shortly saying that the court knows best and therefore we have arrived at the truth, and also to remind us that all this chatter about AK and RS is misplaced because Meredith was "true" victim.

It is interesting the analysis going on. LJ notes not one degree of mind change on PMF, but in fact Fiona is the nearest I found, managing to say

How could Guede talk now? If this judgement is well founded he has nothing to gain. If it is not well founded he may have much to fear.

Also Jackie perseveres with his fanatical devotion to the law with

I hope that the Justices got to the right result for the right reasons.

Nothing else discernible, which is rather staggering, even amongst the other lawyers.

 

[anglolawyer]

How about this from Jackie at PMF

Re: XXXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 24, 2015 -
by Jackie » 28 Mar 2015, 01:15

"If the administration of justice in Italy is corrupt/ for sale/ subject to political influence/ etc., then one has to really question whether they were on the right track in the first place."

That's a turnaround.

Wow

 

[Diocletus]

I went over for a look at PMF (bad move, I know). Did anyone else notice this? Just before the acquittals were announced.




Although I work in a lab that does PCR testing I'm not a molecular biologist and I don't have that level of detail. However, that description of the bra clasp results is exactly as I picked it up from the original discussions of the C&V report. I'm still unconvinced that Sollecito's DNA was ever on the bra clasp.

Only person I've ever heard of, who KNEW the dna was crap, but still thought they were guilty. Takes a special kind of stupid.

 

[Diocletus]

How about this from Jackie at PMF

Re: XXXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 24, 2015 -
by Jackie » 28 Mar 2015, 01:15

"If the administration of justice in Italy is corrupt/ for sale/ subject to political influence/ etc., then one has to really question whether they were on the right track in the first place."

That's a turnaround.

Hm. Almost respectable in terms of open-mindedness.

LOL: spell-checker kept insisting on "open-mindlessness"

 

[Samson]

Mach was always a bit weak on the science (e.g. DNA not being a protein) so I wouldn't worry about this. I actually feel a bit sorry for the camp followers on PMF they have invested a lot of emotion (and not much intellect) into the campaign for Sollecito and Knox's guilt. It must be immensely distressing for them.

It is the "Vecchiotti and Hellmann are not off, we will go and get them."
that I am sure has some clinical connotations. I would be mildly troubled if I was them.
Generally of course, for many here there is a totally unsolved mystery, how could so many be totally captured by a conspiracy theory? I don't expect to ever come to terms with their mass delusions. Is it a little Jonestown? I really don't know, but there sure is a PHD waiting.

 

[LondonJohn]

How about this from Jackie at PMF

Re: XXXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, MARCH 24, 2015 -
by Jackie » 28 Mar 2015, 01:15

"If the administration of justice in Italy is corrupt/ for sale/ subject to political influence/ etc., then one has to really question whether they were on the right track in the first place."

That's a turnaround.

But isn't this just another attempt at rationalisation in order to reconcile a personal belief in Knox's/Sollecito's guilt with today's verdict?

I still barely see an ounce of reflection, hesitation or self-doubt from the pro-guilt commentators, let alone any sort of suggestion that they might have got things even a teeny bit wrong all these years. All I see is bombastic justification and rationalisation, with an overarching theme that Knox and Sollecito are killers who got away with it.

Shouldn't expect any better, I suppose. They had already self-selected as poor thinkers and stubborn, irrational individuals with personal axes to grind, by virtue of them being active members of the pro-guilt community.

 

[LondonJohn]

It is the "Vecchiotti and Hellmann are not off, we will go and get them."
that I am sure has some clinical connotations. I would be mildly troubled if I was them.
Generally of course, for many here there is a totally unsolved mystery, how could so many be totally captured by a conspiracy theory? I don't expect to ever come to terms with their mass delusions. Is it a little Jonestown? I really don't know, but there sure is a PHD waiting.

Yes - it's up there with a certain paralegal's threats to "get" Steve Moore. I truly believe that there are deep psychological problems on display here. I hope these sort of people will step back and take a long, hard look at themselves, question their motivation and their extreme levels of emotional attachment, and find some way to address those issues safely and properly.

 

[GreyFox]

Im still in shock. Someone pinch me ! Congrats !!!

 

[Rolfe]

I suppose if the convictions had been confirmed we wouldn't have been re-examining our positions and wondering if and how we could have got it so wrong, so why should they? But I agree, it's delusional on stilts.

It is indeed irritating the way they go on and on about no justice for Meredith. Meredith seems to have been a nice girl, and indeed she looks lovely in the photos I've seen. (Indeed, the montage at the top of the .org pages is quite beautiful.) All the evidence indicates that she and Amanda were at the beginning of a friendship, one that might have lasted longer than their stay in Perugia. They should have been little old ladies meeting for lunch some time to talk about these crazy days in Italy.

But the way she has been denied justice is that her killer has received a very light sentence and has been placed in a position where he has accepted only a small part of the blame for a horrific act carried out by him and him alone.

 

[LashL]

Annnd, apparently it's turtles conspiracism all the way down.

by Yummi » 28 Mar 2015, 01:13
As an Italian I feel a profound shame before the Kercher family, for my country's outraging failure to provide justice, despite the evidence against the murderers was obvious and beyond doubt, and that the system was incapable to work just because one murderer is Amarican and another is a Mason.
Last edited by Yummi on 28 Mar 2015, 01:16, edited 1 time in total.

Lol.

 

[LondonJohn]

Annnd, apparently it's turtles conspiracism all the way down.




Lol.

Well hello! Good to see you here. I trust you're satisfied with today's outcome.

And of course your point above is well made. Unfortunately, the sad truth is that individuals such as "Yummi" probably don't even have the self-awareness to realise how crazy those sorts of "arguments" sound.