Dick Cheney thinks Obama is worst President of his lifetime

[Tony Stark]

Net net, Bush/Cheney may have saved many more lives than were lost in the Iraq War. How many Iraqi children were dying due to the sanctions? How bloody do you think a civil war in Iraq would have been if Saddam or one of his successors were toppled without US intervention? What would be the consequences of a nuclear arms race between Iraq and Iran if the sanctions had fallen apart?

You can make up hypothetical scenarios all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that the war was a complete disaster. One of, if not the worst foreign policy decision in American history. And the war sure as crap wasn't sold to the American people as a humanitarian mission to help the Iraqi people.

 

[sunmaster14]

May have saved? That's the ex post facto justification now? That's sad.

It's not ex post facto. These ideas were discussed prior to the invasion.

Can Obama use that one too, since there's no way to prove it?

Yes, but he still has to come up with a plausible counterfactual.

 

[Belz...]

Running the government like a communist.

I don't think you know what that word means.

Sicking the IRS on conservative groups

Proven to be false. You should've followed that story to the end.

Flooding the country with illegals through executive amnesty

They're not illegal then, are they ?

 

[The Big Dog]

I love political ideologies in the US. If you're a Republican, no Democrat can ever do good, and vice-versa. If a politician of your party does bad, it's somehow the other party's fault.

Uh huh....

Not sure that has anything to do with my post of course.

 

[Belz...]

Please tell me what gave her away and when. When did you become convinced that she was an imbecile?

The fact that she can't put a single argument together helps me make that determination.

 

[Belz...]

Uh huh....

Not sure that has anything to do with my post of course.

"Oh, they made mistakes, sure, but it was Clinton's fault."

 

[Olowkow]

Democrats unfairly and viciously attacked Palin and tried their best to bring her down before it could possibly be known that she was an idiot. That she did indeed turn out to be an idiot does not justify their disgraceful strategy leading up to the 2008 election, nor the vitriol that they've directed at her since. Ironically, the unfair treatment of Palin in the media has kept her in the spotlight and been good for her bank account as some conservatives reflexively rally around her. It's certainly an interesting phenomenon at any rate.

As for Bill Maher, he is truly vile. Even worse, he's not funny. I do not wish for his death though, nor anyone's, simply because he's obnoxious or disagrees with me politically. To wish for Dick Cheney's death, or to compare him to a serial killer, is to disparage oneself rather than Dick Cheney.

You have a most interesting point of view.

I am pretty sure most of us liberal Obama fans knew the moment Palin said she "reads all of them" or any of the other "in what way, Charlie?" statements that she was in for some rough times. What "unfair treatment" do you specifically refer to?

Yes, Maher is vile in the eyes of those who defend vile people. He needs to be and has the guts to be when others are just being politically correct. What is it that he says that is not true? I find him incredibly funny, as do the audience as evidenced by their laughter and applause. Did you ever wonder why there are so few, if any, conservative comedians who can get laughs by stating facts about liberals? Actually, if she were in touch with reality, Sarah Palin could be quite a comedienne.

Lots of people make money doing odd things. So what? Sarah Palin is a circus clown who thinks she is an intellectual and actually deserves every penny she gets. It takes lots of guts to get on stage when you have not memorized your lines. I have said earlier I don't care what happens to the likes of Cheney, just part of the trash heap of history.

 

[sunmaster14]

You can make up hypothetical scenarios all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that the war was a complete disaster. One of, if not the worst foreign policy decision in American history. And the war sure as crap wasn't sold to the American people as a humanitarian mission to help the Iraqi people.

In order to judge whether it was a disaster, you need to consider counterfactual scenarios. Otherwise, all you're doing is making an unsupported assertion.

 

[Belz...]

Actually, if she were in touch with reality, Sarah Palin could be quite a comedienne.

Sometimes you wonder if she's a female version of Colbert.

 

[Spindrift]

I was not trying to insult anybody. I was merely making the claim that normal, objective people, using reason, would not see Cheney as an innately evil person. The word "reasonable" is very common in philosophical discussions. It is not to denigrate anybody, but rather to limit the point of view to a normal, objective, rational human being.

Your comment, however, was mostly gratuitous.

And thereby anyone who disagrees with your claim is not normal, not objective and irrational.

 

[Olowkow]

Please tell me what gave her away and when. When did you become convinced that she was an imbecile?

In case you missed my link in a previous post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/sarah-palins-charlie-gibs_n_125772.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_interviews_with_Katie_Couric

 

[sunmaster14]

The fact that she can't put a single argument together helps me make that determination.

You're missing my point, which is that she was unfairly attacked before it was known that she was a know-nothing. Bill Maher and others have accused conservatives of being wrong about Palin. Actually I was never wrong about Palin. I came to the conclusion that she was woefully ignorant, and, even worse, unwilling to learn, at I think the earliest time that it was reasonable to come to that conclusion for somebody who had no special inside information. And yet this was many days, actually weeks, after seeing the start of a relentless flood of outrageous vitriol directed at her and her family.

What was particularly ironic (and annoying) was to see Joe Biden treated as some sort of wise statesman even though it was blindingly obvious to me that he was a blithering idiot himself. And I figured that out for myself back in 1991 during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.

 

[Tony Stark]

In order to judge whether it was a disaster, you need to consider counterfactual scenarios. Otherwise, all you're doing is making an unsupported assertion.

No, we need to look at what actually happened: thousands of Americans dead, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead, no WMDs, trillions of dollars wasted, severe damage do America's image abroad, ISIS now ruling over large chunks of territory. A complete and total disaster in the mind of any reasonable person. That you can imagine situations where an even worse disaster might have happened means absolutely nothing.

 

[12AX7]

Please tell me what gave her away and when. When did you become convinced that she was an imbecile?

For me it started with this:



And, the assurance Sarah Palin was an idiot was this:

 

[sunmaster14]

In case you missed my link in a previous post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/sarah-palins-charlie-gibs_n_125772.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_interviews_with_Katie_Couric

Sarah Palin's nomination was announced August 29, 2008. Her convention speech was September 3, 2008. The Charlie Gibson interview was aired September 11, 2008, and the Katie Couric interviews aired beginning September 24, 2008. The liberal rage machine was in high gear on August 29, 2008, and it was turned up to 11 after her convention speech.

 

[Upchurch]

You're missing my point, which is that she was unfairly attacked before it was known that she was a know-nothing. Bill Maher and others have accused conservatives of being wrong about Palin.

Well, now that the thread is fully derailed, I might as well ask you to support this claim.

What attack(s) about her intelligence, specifically, are you referring to that occurred before it was known she was a know-nothing? Let's see the links/videos/citations.

 

[12AX7]

And I guess this kicks off the season where I can sit back with some popcorn and watch conservatives/Republicans double-down on their idiot politicians, circling the wagons to defend the brand name.

And away we go!

 

[sunmaster14]

And thereby anyone who disagrees with your claim is not normal, not objective and irrational.

A logical person would recognize that this should be an "or."

 

[The Big Dog]

And I guess this kicks off the season where I can sit back with some popcorn and watch conservatives/Republicans double-down on their idiot politicians, circling the wagons to defend the brand name.

And away we go!

Certainly beats trying to counter Cheney's astute analysis of Obama's problems in Syria and Libya as discussed in the linked article, hmmm?

 

[sunmaster14]

Well, now that the thread is fully derailed, I might as well ask you to support this claim.

What attack(s) about her intelligence, specifically, are you referring to that occurred before it was known she was a know-nothing? Let's see the links/videos/citations.

You know, I'm sure that I've posted those citations before in this forum. I don't have time to do it now, since I have to run some errands. If I find time later, I will do it. I remember finding some mea culpas from some Palin detractors after the election who admitted that her political skills freaked them out, and so they decided it was necessary to destroy her reputation as quickly as possible. There are plenty of attacks you can find with a few minutes of googling though. Look for some by Andrew Sullivan, where he dug up dirt on her religion (as if there is any mainstream religion which doesn't look insane under scrutiny).