Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[RWVBWL]

I wonder why so many people seem to have problem understanding this story. It's not that strange, not something bizarre.
A drug dealers' ring made of three individuals (Federico, Lorenzo, Luciano, the latter being the boss) were caught. The reason why they were caught was their contacts with Amanda Knox.
<snip>

Hiya Machiavelli,
Your post above has me wondering something,
can ya help me figure something out?

This photo below

is the dude Miss Kercher was dating,
I believe his name is Giacomo Silenzi , right?


I have learned by reading a few books and some of the The Massei courtroom testimony,
that Miss Kercher's new boyfriend was growing marijuania, right?

Hang on a moment,
I'll dig up a crime scene screen grab photo for ya,
in case you mighta forgotten this tidbit of info, ok?:

Questions:
Is it legal to grow your own in Italy?
If so, what ever happened to the pot plants?
Were they given back to Giacomo Silenzi?
Or did the Flyin' Squad harvest and smoke 'em?

If it is not legal to grow your own in Italy,
was Giacomo Silenzi ever arrested and prosecuted for drug cultivation or drug dealing?

Wasn't Miss Kercher tasked with watering Giacomo Slenzi's pot plants while he was away on holiday,
which just so happened to be growing downstairs underneath her own flat, in her new boyfriends apartment?
If growing and/or selling marijuania was illegal in Italy in 2007,
was Miss Kercher aiding a drug dealer then?

Did The Flying Squad ever investigate Giacomo Silenzi's phone contacts for possible or probable drug dealings as you write that they did so with Amanda Knox? Or was the Amanda Knox drug dealing phone contact investigation simply another way to get the she-devil witch?

Just wonderin' here in Venice Beach, Los Angeles, California...
RW

 

[JREF2010]

No woman could have a man's number in her phone unless she was having sex with him. All women are whores. WHORES!!

Per Migninni ..anyone having sex is a Satanic Ritual.

 

[Bill Williams]

As for Machiavelli I would not put him in that category either. He has repeatedly written he doesn't care about people's sex lives. I don't think he is focused on the sexual aspect as others appear to be.

So why has Machiavelli been continually posting about this nonsense, if not to slut shame and sling mud at AK? It has no relevance to the trial or to whether someone would have a propensity to murder. If anything, AK was less worldly than Meredith Kercher, but both sounded pretty average to me. Students commonly take drugs and have sex, it really has no relevance

It was the basis of the "sex game gone wrong" motive. The motive that both Judge Massei (convicting them) as well as Hellmann (in acquitting them) missed: according to the Supreme Court ruling of March 2013.

The Supreme Court overruled BOTH lower courts, and all-but directed the Nencini court to find that this was a sexualized killing. In essence this was a return to Mignini's theory. On the basis of...... what? Cassazione is not supposed to be ruling on matters of fact, especially matters rejected by BOTH lower courts as being non-factual.

What did prosecutor Crini do at the Florence Trial. According to the dissenting popular judge, Genny Ballerini, the judges were supposed to consider this a fight (to the death) over an unclean toilet. Ballerini said that was ridiculous.

And what did Judge Nencini write? That this was a killing precipitated over a dispute over rent money - basically the story Rudy Guede told, that Necnini believed - but more importanly, not one ever advanced by any of the prosecutors - Nencini cherry-picked Rdy Guede's story!

What does Machiavelli do with this continual reference (without proof) that Knox had the number of a known drug dealer in her mobile, and perhaps traded sex for drugs?

Machiavelli claims he has no interest in anyone's sex life, but why does he keep bringing it up despite saying that?

Because it is Mignini he defers to - to the sexualized game that went wrong and resulted in Meredith's death - Mignini still believes that. Amanda has to be this sexualized sex-deviant, or else Mignini's theries don't work.

And apparently they do not, except for Cassazione in March 2013.

 

[Bill Williams]

Such an absurd lie. This is not in the court records at all. This is just smear from people like you. One lies and then your papers print it and you say that makes it a fact. Total NONSENSE!

It's in the court records of Federico's trial.
Knox's is not the only trial in the world.

Once again, you assert and provide no proof. (Unless you're talking about the court document with no surnames on it, with an undecipherable signature, in comic sans serif font!)

More assertions. No facts.

 

[Numbers]

Once again, you assert and provide no proof. (Unless you're talking about the court document with no surnames on it, with an undecipherable signature, in comic sans serif font!)

More assertions. No facts.

Is this the alleged police document allegedly from the questura (police station - headquarters)? Was that filed in a court? If so, where are the court filing stamps or ID?

If the case was settled, why are the names and phone numbers blacked out?

I would never believe that document was anything but a fraud. If there were real information that was reliable and true, it would provided, not blacked out.

 

[kwill]

Good to see you post, that username, though spelling dodgy, always makes me think kiwi, though I suppose it is a feather used for writing.
Leila Schnepps is a maths professor, an interesting guilter. Have you ever read what she writes on PMF under the name thoughtful?

Hi -- yes, I was following Leila when she was engaging over at Injustice a year or two ago. She's articulate but she let her assumption of guilt get the better of her critical thinking skills. I don't go to PMF . . . why read a site that isn't interested in what I have to say?

 

[kwill]

So much for "Fifty Shades of Grey, dirty old man" Mignini.

As I wrote before he isn't what many collectively are describing him to be.

Where did the fantasy of Amanda's need to punish Meredith sexually come from?

This is a serious question. I think it came directly from Mignini's perverse mind.

 

[Bill Williams]

Where did the fantasy of Amanda's need to punish Meredith sexually come from?

This is a serious question. I think it came directly from Mignini's perverse mind.

As someone upthread said, Mignini would colour his presentations to court with imagined dialogue. One bit of dialogue he imagined Amanda as saying to Meredith was, "We will make you have sex."

Who talks like that?

 

[kwill]

As someone upthread said, Mignini would colour his presentations to court with imagined dialogue. One bit of dialogue he imagined Amanda as saying to Meredith was, "We will make you have sex."

Who talks like that?

More to the point, who thinks like that?

I know we're supposed to accept that the noble task of the prosecutor is to see that the person they believe is guilty is duly punished. And because Mignini in his sober, kindly soul believes that Knox and Sollecito really did murder Meredith, it's okay for him to be creative with the presentation in court.

But what I want to know is, where does that kind of idea come from? What sort of person is it who dreams it up out of nothing? "We will make you have sex."

This is Mignini's idea. Not Amanda's.

 

[codyjuneau]

Where did the fantasy of Amanda's need to punish Meredith sexually come from?

This is a serious question. I think it came directly from Mignini's perverse mind.

As someone upthread said, Mignini would colour his presentations to court with imagined dialogue. One bit of dialogue he imagined Amanda as saying to Meredith was, "We will make you have sex."

Who talks like that?

.
"It is easy to believe Knox said... 'You were such a little saint… now you are going to be forced to have sex'."
Yeah, easy for Mignini to believe.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/22/meredith-kercher-trial-amanda-knox

As the Florentine prosecutor put it regarding Mignini's actions in the Monster of Florence case:
Mr Mignini had fallen "prey to a sort of delirium".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7879293.stm

Anybody think Mignini will admit he was wrong in the Narducci case and apologize to all the people whose lives he ruined with his fantastical body switching conspiracy allegations?

Anybody think he will admit he was wrong to arrest Spezzi and apologize to him and also Preston?

Anybody think he will admit he was wrong in this case and apologize to Raffaele and Amanda, their parents, and the Kerchers for ruining their lives because he could not solve an obvious crime with the obvious solution that was staring him in the face.

But hey, he talks good according to Chahaha..

Cody
.

 

[Dan O.]

Thank you. I thought I remembered reading it more recently even than 2011 but maybe it was that long ago.

You could have read it right here in this thread. The skeptics here try to expose and verify information and not keep it hidden. Amanda's phone records were analized and the numbers identified where possible. If there was a Wind cell number that was called both before and after Meredith's murder, Machiavelli (if he did his homework) would be able to identify the number and the dates and times of those calls.

I just reviewed my notes on my wiki and see right off there are several points where Machiavelli is not telling the whole story. I'm not accusing him of lying because I believe he really doesn't know any more than his handlers permit him to know. Mach, this information is all publicly available. Not telling the whole truth is making you look bad. Do you want to try and fill in what you left out before I do?

As for the rest of you, I tried to show you how we would all benifit by compiling a comprehensive set of case notes. When these old factoids pop up as they are oft to do, we can just reference the notes to find the facts and sources. But no, you prefer to do your own things and let Machiavelli drag you through this old drivel one more time.

 

[NancyS]

.
"It is easy to believe Knox said... 'You were such a little saint… now you are going to be forced to have sex'."
Yeah, easy for Mignini to believe.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/22/meredith-kercher-trial-amanda-knox

.

This statement is really the crux of his very odd views about women. No Mr Mignini, it is not easy to believe that any woman would have said this. It really makes me think that his views of women come from watching far too much nasty pornography. It really is the most bizarre theory

If people really believe this is what happened (even though the only evidence of anyone sexually assaulting MK is from Guede), what kind of weird ideas do they have about young women? It's incredibly offensive to both AK and MK

 

[Samson]

Hi -- yes, I was following Leila when she was engaging over at Injustice a year or two ago. She's articulate but she let her assumption of guilt get the better of her critical thinking skills. I don't go to PMF . . . why read a site that isn't interested in what I have to say?

I know there are divergent views on reading other sites, but from the antipodes there seems little point investing time without being acquainted with all the nuances of this unique case. Leila is happy to accord Raffaele with the better option to avoid detention by self delivery after the gruesome crime he committed.

On the other hand she promotes her daughter's artistic endeavours in a classical music quintet on that forum. I am more or less speechless. No mathematician should get to her complex space. She also says Hiroshima trumps twin towers for body count. On that she is mathematically accurate.

 

[Planigale]

Sorry, I chacked: the article is by Il Giornale dell'Umbria of Jan 14. 2011. Umbria24 and Terni Magazine/UmbriaLeft also have the same story on the same day. The person convicted is not Federico, he's one of the other two (I guess Lorenzo).

This is from Il Giornale dell'Umbria:



The news (highlited) report that phone calls between Knox and the dealer have occurred also in the days before and after the murder.

The article points out that the three have chosen different legal strategies. One (Federico, my sources say) had plead guilty, but the judge rejected the plea. Luciano had his charged merged with other charges in a pending trial he already had for other crimes (I tend to think this is one Luciano based on the police reports about him being involved in a number of criminal facts), while I assume the third can only be Lorenzo, who is convicted to 2 years 8 month in a short track trial.
I understand the police reached to Lorenzo through Federico, not directly through Knox's phone records. But it clearly reports that she had repeated phone contacts with Lorenzo even in the days around the murder.

Thank you.

The facts seem to be Knox made out with Frederico in Venice. FYI being in bed with a boy does not necessarily lead to sex. So I would accept an encounter of a sexual nature, sex remains unproven. So a single proven contact of a sexual nature in Venice with Frederico. Frederico was based in Rome I believe. Knox never visited Rome.

Frederico was identified through phone number stored on knob's phone; not intercepted calls.

The physical contacts and calls seem in the article to be speculation not proven facts. Reasonable evidence would be statements (either transcripts of intercepts or given in evidence) from one or more of the men concerned that they 1) visited and had sex with Knox in Perugia 2) Supplied her with drugs. In the absence of definite facts, it remains speculation. E.g. "presumibilmente avuto con lei dei rapporti di tipo sessuale" Now my Italian is not good but I think this implies speculation? A degree of uncertainty? "uno ipotizzato come fornitore ed amante dell’americana" perhaps again a speculation? Not something of a definite nature?

"giorni precedenti e successivi" my reading of this is that the paper speculates the calls occurred in the time around the murder, not that they necessarily occurred both before and after. Which all calls must have done given the short time she had been in Italy before the murder.

The complete phone records of Knox are online.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/AK_Phone_Traffic.pdf
There are some unidentified calls but none of a frequent nature. It should be possible to highlight the likely number.

 

[Samson]

Also kwill, without wishing to be pedantic, Leila says

Pi is not math. Pi is a number. Math is what you do with that number.

But Pi is surely not a number, it is a ratio. I know what she means, but why make such an easily falsifiable statement?
Disconcertingly, there are a small number of fine and analytical minds on PMF, as long as they discuss subjects other than the murder of Meredith Kercher.

 

[Samson]

If it upholds the convictions, the case finally will be closed.

Barbie Latza Nadeau writes this, I suppose in good faith. She defends all her writings at all times. I remember a fine NZ academic from Hamilton declaring all male female relationships being contracts resembling prostitution.

How many posters here agree the case will be closed?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...knox-a-key-decision-approaches-march-25.html#

 

[lonepinealex]

If it upholds the convictions, the case finally will be closed.

Barbie Latza Nadeau writes this, I suppose in good faith. She defends all her writings at all times. I remember a fine NZ academic from Hamilton declaring all male female relationships being contracts resembling prostitution.

How many posters here agree the case will be closed?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...knox-a-key-decision-approaches-march-25.html#

Ha, depends if you count the inevitable ECHR appeals. It most certainly won't be the end of the saga, and the ISC must know this. Whether they care depends on just how myopic they are in their little judicial party bubble.

 

[Samson]

Why not emphasise the reason to destroy a few families?

From PMF just now.

I echo the fine points you have made. The Defense and AK47's supporters have tried for years to make this case about only the DNA evidence, some of which was shaky in its time period, as if that was all the Prosecution had on them.

The strongest evidence, however, was their guilty behavior and actions after the murder. No innocent person would have acted like AK47. There had to have been a lot of eyes rolling when she gave her testimony. It was definitely worth the wait to be heard

 

[Diocletus]

You seem to overlook the issue. See it like this: your interpretation of the principle is unreasonable, because it would create an immunity. Anyone could say whatever they like when they talk as police informants, since whatever one says as a police witness will have no consequence to him/her.
This is unreasonable, and nowhere near the Convention principles.
Moreover, as a general rule the ECHR protects rights, but does not create immunities and legal shields.

The question here is not about "using" statements from a witness for conviction, it's about the witness' bearing consequence and responsability from them.

Here's the thing. If Italy had started a separate callunnia proceeding against Knox, they maybe would have had a slim chance of getting away with this, although it would have created a terrible precedent at the echr level.

But, they didn't. They introduced the statements in the murder proceeding, used them to defeat the alibi, and used the ensuing Calunnia conviction to convict for murder and increase her jail time.

Not gonna work.

 

[Diocletus]

If it upholds the convictions, the case finally will be closed.

Barbie Latza Nadeau writes this, I suppose in good faith. She defends all her writings at all times. I remember a fine NZ academic from Hamilton declaring all male female relationships being contracts resembling prostitution.

How many posters here agree the case will be closed?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...knox-a-key-decision-approaches-march-25.html#

You have to excuse Barbie. She's not the brightest bulb in the box.