DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

Wolrab said:
What I'm being told in this thread:
1) Black people are too lazy to vote. Except everywhere they do.
2) Black people are like dogs and can't vote because they are to cowed (wiki link way up thread) . Except every other place they do.

3) Blacks cannot change overnight. Except for embracing high technology along with social networks and stuff that wasn't around in the recent past.
4) Black people work too much and can't be bothered to run for office or vote. Except when they do.
5) Black people can't confront a corrupt system. Except when the do.
6)Black people can't organize an election effort or put forth candidates. Except for all the other places they do just that.
7) Black people don't trust the election system. Except when the do.
8) Black people can't scrounge up enough money to field candidates in a city of 20000. Except it is done all over the place.

There's plenty more excuses throughout the thread.
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7 & 8) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10523466&postcount=257
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10528676&postcount=329

3) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10524521&postcount=275

2) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10525190&postcount=277

Here's a few. Twist them all you want.
 
Wolrab said:
What I'm being told in this thread:
1) Black people are too lazy to vote. Except everywhere they do.
2) Black people are like dogs and can't vote because they are to cowed (wiki link way up thread) . Except every other place they do.
3) Blacks cannot change overnight. Except for embracing high technology along with social networks and stuff that wasn't around in the recent past.
4) Black people work too much and can't be bothered to run for office or vote. Except when they do.
5) Black people can't confront a corrupt system. Except when the do.
6)Black people can't organize an election effort or put forth candidates. Except for all the other places they do just that.
7) Black people don't trust the election system. Except when the do.
8) Black people can't scrounge up enough money to field candidates in a city of 20000. Except it is done all over the place.

There's plenty more excuses throughout the thread.
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You are missing the point that it is not "black people" but the people of places like Ferguson who have been victimised by the authorities on the basis of their race. People in poverty who are victims of institutional racism and illegal targeting by the police have plenty of reasons to distrust the system.

I do admit that my post that you linked to for point #2 was not the best - Katie G's post put it far better.


7) Black people don't trust the election system. Except when the do.
8) Black people can't scrounge up enough money to field candidates in a city of 20000. Except it is done all over the place.
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KatieG said:
It takes money to run for office. It requires the ability to take time off to run your campaign. How many black people in Ferguson can afford to do that? And then there is the mindset, ingrained over years of abuse by the police.

I don't blame them for being discouraged.
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It doesn't matter if Obama has the resources to stand for mayor in Ferguson. It is the population of Ferguson itself. The police were picking on the poorest people so by your logic they should be the ones stumping the money to stand.

It isn't "Black people can't scrounge up enough money to field candidates" it is that poor blacks would struggle to stump up the money to field candidates.
 
Wolrab, blacks from outside Ferguson were also victimised by the FPD. Was it their fault that they hadn't voted in a different regime?
 
Wolrab said:
Here's a few. Twist them all you want.
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How about I untwist them, since you've twisted them up enough already?

Wolrab said:
7 & 8) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10523466&postcount=257
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10528676&postcount=329
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I think you missed the point of the oppressive system and not having a level playing field.

Wolrab said:
3) http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10524521&postcount=275
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Who said I was only talking about black people?

You forgot to provide links for the first and fourth items. Let me help:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10526626#post10526626
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10531602#post10531602
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10534028#post10534028
 
Upchurch said:
One way would be to dissolve the township, or even just the PD, sending it back into unincorporated status as part of St. Louis County.

Now, would you explain to me how changing out a few elected officials will change much of anything? Are the four politicians currently up for re-election the root cause of the systemic racism in Ferguson's justice system?
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You seem pretty quick to throw Democracy out the window.

The constant desire to downgrade local based governement in favor of gving more and more power to Central government is a major reason I no longer consider myself a progressive.
 
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dudalb said:
You seem pretty quick to throw Democracy out the window.
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I'm not sure how you could call Ferguson a democracy at this point.

dudalb said:
The constant desire to downgrade local based governement in favor of gving more and more power to Central government is a major reason I no longer consider myself a progressive.
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I'm all for local government, but this one is very, very broken.
 
Upchurch said:
I'm not sure how you could call Ferguson a democracy at this point.


I'm all for local government, but this one is very, very broken.
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Sorry, but I want to try "let's see what new officials can do" before basically putting Ferguson unter the control of unelected bureaucrats.

And,sorry, but I find all the excuses for the people of Ferguson not voting to be lame.
 
dudalb said:
Sorry, but I want to try "let's see what new officials can do" before basically putting Ferguson unter the control of unelected bureaucrats.
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That's fine. What do you expect them to do?

dudalb said:
And,sorry, but I find all the excuses for the people of Ferguson not voting to be lame.
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Hm. Perhaps you can explain why voter turn out is so low, then?
 
dudalb said:
Sorry, but I want to try "let's see what new officials can do" <snip>
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I agree that people should vote, have an obligation to. But I wonder if you are aware that only three of seven city council seats are up for election this year in Ferguson? That's not even a majority. The Mayor was reelected last year.
 
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newyorkguy said:
I agree that people should vote, have an obligation to. But I wonder if you are aware that only three of seven city council sets are up for election this year in Ferguson? That's not even a majority. The Mayor was reelected last year.
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Democracy can be a slow process. But it's better then rule by bureaucratic decree, which is what some people here are demanding.
 
dudalb said:
You seem pretty quick to throw Democracy out the window.

The constant desire to downgrade local based governement in favor of gving more and more power to Central government is a major reason I no longer consider myself a progressive.
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A patchwork of small authorities looks like a recipe for malpractice and local corruption. Indeed you mentioned Hazard County, and that trope looks to be based in reality.

To me as a Brit, the idea that Ferguson, with a population on 20,000 should have its own police force seems silly. There is massive scope for economies of scale. Larger municipal areas also would have more scope for oversight.

There is also a larger potential pool of candidates for office. It is easy to imagine that some small municipalities are going to have very unimpressive candidates.



Ferguson is about the same population as one of my local market towns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buxton); the parish councils have very minor roles, even the bins are at the borough level which is the same as the parliamentary constituency and is roughly 100,000 people (this is the case in most places outside the metropolitan areas, which are usually some form of unitary authority). The police and fire authorities are county-wide (population about 950,000) and the police authorities are considering merging with neighboring forces to improve efficiencies. The Ambulance service is regional (population 4.5-million).

The English system is far from ideal, but compared to the system in St Louis County, it is an exemplar of good practice.
 
pgwenthold said:
Quick? What do you mean "quick"?

How long has this been going on? How long does it need to go on to conclude that it's not going to fix itself?
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How about the idea that police authorities need a critical mass of people for economies of scale and provide protection against local corruption and malpractice?
 
jimbob said:
A patchwork of small authorities looks like a recipe for malpractice and local corruption. Indeed you mentioned Hazard County, and that trope looks to be based in reality.
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I just want to re-iterate that St. Louis City and County have an unusual history and relationship. The organization of the Country townships probably isn't what most people would assume.
 
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