DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

[eeyore1954]

I looked up where I live about partial payments and this is the answer

Suffolk County NY
CAN I PAY MY TICKET IN INSTALLMENTS OVER A PERIOD OF TIME?
No, partial payments are not accepted.

From the report.

Nor does the court consider a person’s financial ability to pay in determining how much of a fine to impose in cases without preset fines.

Why should the ability to pay have anything to do with the fine?

Another defendant who owed $1,002 in fines and fees stemming from a Driving with a Revoked License charge wrote to a City official that he would be unable to make his required monthly payment but hoped to avoid having a warrant issued. He explained that he was unemployed, that the court had put him on a payment plan only a week before his first payment was due, and that he did not have enough time to gather enough money. He implored the City to provide “some kind of community service to work off the fines/fees,” stating that “I want to pay you guys what I owe” and “I have been trying to scrape up what I can,” but that “with warrants it’s hard to get a job.” The City official forwarded the request to a court clerk, who noted that the underlying charge dated back to 2007, that five Failure to Appear charges had been levied, and that no payments had yet been made.

The charge was from 2007 and no payments had been made why would they think now was going to be any different.
and remember this is a cherry picked example.

The fact that there is fixing going on is a different matter. It is wrong and but I would believe it happens most everywhere.



anecdotal :
I was going to have to miss a traffic court appearance in Suffolk County, I called and explained my reason and was told a bench warrant would be issued if I did not show.

 

[Bob001]

Are those remedies available in Missouri? It took legislative action for that in Illinois.

The citations are issued by the Ferguson city police under Ferguson city codes and enforced by the Ferguson municipal courts to collect fines for the city of Ferguson. It's hard to believe that Ferguson couldn't change its laws and procedures if it wanted to.

 

[Bob001]

.....
Why should the ability to pay have anything to do with the fine?

Because a fine of xx dollars is a more severe punishment on someone without money than on someone else, especially in these cases where questionable tickets were written specifically to raise money.

 

[jimbob]

I looked up where I live about partial payments and this is the answer




From the report.
Why should the ability to pay have anything to do with the fine?



The charge was from 2007 and no payments had been made why would they think now was going to be any different.
and remember this is a cherry picked example.

The fact that there is fixing going on is a different matter. It is wrong and but I would believe it happens most everywhere.



anecdotal :
I was going to have to miss a traffic court appearance in Suffolk County, I called and explained my reason and was told a bench warrant would be issued if I did not show.

From the report:

The
Ferguson court’s failure to assess a defendant’s ability
to pay stands in direct tension with Missouri law, which
instructs that in determining the amount and the
method of payment of a fine, a court “shall, insofar as
practicable, proportion the fine to the burden that
payment will impose in view of the financial resources
of an individual.” Mo. Rev. Stat. § 560.026.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Why should the ability to pay have anything to do with the fine?

There's two schools of thought when it comes to fines, whether they should be absolute or variable.

In Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Croatia, Switzerland and Germany some speeding fines for instances are all adjusted (often with an initial base fine and/or up to a maximum amount) based on income. The UK toyed with it in the 90s but it proved unpopular, and I think the idea gets floated in other places from time to time, with a lot of people trying to draw a comparison between fines and taxes, which are often income proportional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

 

[newyorkguy]

The Ferguson court’s failure to assess a defendant’s ability to pay stands in direct tension with Missouri law, which instructs that in determining the amount and the method of payment of a fine, a court “shall, insofar as practicable, proportion the fine to the burden that payment will impose in view of the financial resources of an individual.” Mo. Rev. Stat. § 560.026.

Many states have these kinds of restrictions and they are often ignored by local courts. Journalists and advocates have documented some shocking abuses. I hope that some body will address this issue.

 

[WildCat]

There can always be more detail.

That there can always be more detail doesn't make it suspicious.

No, what makes it suspicious is how they go from vehicle stops to summons in the same paragraph. It's an attempt to mislead, and it looks like it worked on many of the "skeptics" here.

 

[WildCat]

The citations are issued by the Ferguson city police under Ferguson city codes and enforced by the Ferguson municipal courts to collect fines for the city of Ferguson. It's hard to believe that Ferguson couldn't change its laws and procedures if it wanted to.

Ferguson has no power to suspend driver's licenses or vehicle registrations, only the state can do that. Unless Missouri law provides for the state to suspend driver's licenses and registrations for municipal ordinance violations it cannot be done.

 

[Bob001]

No, what makes it suspicious is how they go from vehicle stops to summons in the same paragraph. It's an attempt to mislead, and it looks like it worked on many of the "skeptics" here.

So what's your conclusion? All's well in Ferguson? How 'bout stuff like this:

".... Many times, however, FPD officers omit critical information from the citation, which makes it impossible for a person to determine the specific nature of the offense charged, the amount of the fine owed, or whether a court appearance is required or some alternative method of payment is available. In some cases, citations fail to indicate the offense charged altogether;..."

In many jurisdictions, an incomplete citation would be deemed "defective" and the courts would throw it out. A cop who wrote a lot of defective tickets would be disciplined. But not in Ferguson.

 

[jimbob]

Ferguson has no power to suspend driver's licenses or vehicle registrations, only the state can do that. Unless Missouri law provides for the state to suspend driver's licenses and registrations for municipal ordinance violations it cannot be done.

This is what the report says:

To be clear, responsibility for the hardship imposed by automatically suspending a person’s license for failing to appear in a traffic case rests largely with this state law. Notably, however, Ferguson’s own discretionary practices amplify and prolong that law’s impact. A temporary suspension can be lifted with a compliance letter from the municipal court, but the Ferguson municipal court does not issue compliance letters unless a person has satisfied the entire fine pending on the charge that caused the suspension. This rule is not mandated by state law, which instead provides a municipality with the authority to decide when to issue a compliance letter. See Mo. Rev. Stat. § 302.341.1 (“Such suspension shall remain in effect until the court with the subject pending charge requests setting aside the noncompliance suspension pending final disposition.”). Indeed, Ferguson court staff told us that they will issue compliance letters before full payment has been made for cases that they determine, in their unguided discretion, to be sympathetic.

 

[johnny karate]

No, what makes it suspicious is how they go from vehicle stops to summons in the same paragraph. It's an attempt to mislead, and it looks like it worked on many of the "skeptics" here.

WildCat doesn't like the wording in that one paragraph because he is a "skeptic".

Therefore, the entire report can be dismissed.

I'm not sure why everyone is having such a difficult time with this chain of reasoning.

 

[jimbob]

No, what makes it suspicious is how they go from vehicle stops to summons in the same paragraph. It's an attempt to mislead, and it looks like it worked on many of the "skeptics" here.

What makes you think it is an attempt to mislead?

Do you deny that there is strong evidence of racist attitudes within FPD?

 

[Checkmite]

Why should the ability to pay have anything to do with the fine?

Missouri state law requires municipal courts to determine and accommodate defendants' financial resources. It was mentioned right there in the same post.

 

[Checkmite]

Ferguson has no power to suspend driver's licenses or vehicle registrations, only the state can do that. Unless Missouri law provides for the state to suspend driver's licenses and registrations for municipal ordinance violations it cannot be done.

I do not know about Missouri specifically, but it isn't unusual at all for states to suspend licenses upon request of municipal courts for things like failure to appear or pay fines.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Why should the ability to pay have anything to do with the fine?

Because it's a fine, not a bill for services rendered.

 

[jimbob]

Ferguson has no power to suspend driver's licenses or vehicle registrations, only the state can do that. Unless Missouri law provides for the state to suspend driver's licenses and registrations for municipal ordinance violations it cannot be done.

This is what the report says:

To be clear, responsibility for the hardship imposed by automatically suspending a person’s license for failing to appear in a traffic case rests largely with this state law. Notably, however, Ferguson’s own discretionary practices amplify and prolong that law’s impact. A temporary suspension can be lifted with a compliance letter from the municipal court, but the Ferguson municipal court does not issue compliance letters unless a person has satisfied the entire fine pending on the charge that caused the suspension. This rule is not mandated by state law, which instead provides a municipality with the authority to decide when to issue a compliance letter. See Mo. Rev. Stat. § 302.341.1 (“Such suspension shall remain in effect until the court with the subject pending charge requests setting aside the noncompliance suspension pending final disposition.”). Indeed, Ferguson court staff told us that they will issue compliance letters before full payment has been made for cases that they determine, in their unguided discretion, to be sympathetic.

I'll add the next part of the report, because it touches on several issues we've been discussing.

This rule and the Ferguson practices that magnify its impact underscore how missed court appearances can have broad ramifications for individuals’ ability to maintain a job and care for their families. We spoke with one woman who received three citations during a single incident in 2013 in which she pulled to the side of the road to allow a police car to pass, was confronted by the officer for doing so, and was cited for obstructing traffic, failing to signal, and not wearing a seatbelt. The woman appeared in court to challenge those citations, was told a new trial date would be mailed to her, and instead received notice from the Missouri Department of Revenue several months later that her license was suspended. Upon informing the Court Clerk that she never received notice of her court date, the Clerk told her the trial date had passed two weeks earlier and that there was now a warrant for her arrest pending.²⁸ Given that the woman’s license was suspended only two weeks after her trial date, it appears the court did not send a warning letter before entering a warrant and suspending the license, contrary to purported policy. Court records likewise do not indicate a letter being sent. The woman asked to see the Municipal Judge to explain the situation, but court staff informed her that she could only see the Judge if she was issued a new court date and that she would only be issued a new court date if she paid her $200 bond. With no opportunity to further petition the court, she wrote to Mayor Knowles about her situation

²⁸ By initiating the license suspension procedure after a single missed appearance and without first providing notice or an opportunity to remedy the missed appearance, the court appears to have violated Missouri law. See Mo. Rev. Stat. § 302.341.1 (providing that after a missed appearance associated with a moving violation, a court “shall within ten days . . . inform the defendant by ordinary mail at the last address shown on the court records that the court will order the director of revenue to suspend the defendant’s driving privileges if the charges are not disposed of and fully paid within thirty days from the date of mailing”)

 

[12AX7]

WildCat doesn't like the wording in that one paragraph because he is a "skeptic".

Therefore, the entire report can be dismissed.

I'm not sure why everyone is having such a difficult time with this chain of reasoning.

Well yeah. He figured it out immediately; the rest of us (including the DOJ) are apparently kinda slow.

 

[eeyore1954]

From the report:

The
Ferguson court’s failure to assess a defendant’s ability
to pay stands in direct tension with Missouri law, which
instructs that in determining the amount and the
method of payment of a fine, a court “shall, insofar as
practicable, proportion the fine to the burden that
payment will impose in view of the financial resources
of an individual.” Mo. Rev. Stat. § 560.026.

I didn't know that. Although do you notice the wording. It is in direct tension. What exactly does that mean?

 

[jimbob]

I didn't know that. Although do you notice the wording. It is in direct tension. What exactly does that mean?

I presume the DoJ report suspects it violates that state law but that it hasn't been tested in court, so can't be definitive.

I'd guess that is the case with much of the interpretation in the report.

 

[jimbob]

As an aside, I have no idea what the penalties would be if I sent a racist email at work. I do know that it would be a disciplinary matter on at least two counts.