DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

[WildCat]

When you make up your mind, feel free to provide evidence.

"Can't" and "won't" are not the same thing. If they were jailing people for being unable to pay a fine they would be suing instead of just issuing a report.

No, the DoJ is very clear that the "failure to appear" charge also includes trying to make a partial payment.

Yes, if your fine is $100 and you send in $50 and don't go to court it's a "failure to appear".

When you get a ticket you have the option to pay it in full or go to court, partial payment is not an option.

 

[WildCat]

In many large cities, including mine, minor non-moving violations and some moving violations are treated as civil offenses. If you don't pay parking tickets you can't renew your registration, and your car might get booted. If you don't pay for a moving violation your license can be suspended (and driving on a suspended license will get you locked up.) If you owe the city money for other reasons they might grab it from your tax refund or ding your credit report. They also offer payment plans for people who need them. It would be extremely difficult to go to jail just for ignoring a minor ticket.

Are those remedies available in Missouri? It took legislative action for that in Illinois.

 

[WildCat]

St Louis city is 47.9% black
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29510.html

St Louis county is 23.7% black
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29189.html


Ferguson is 67.4% black

If anything, out of town drivers would be more likely to be white, flattering FPD

What is the demographics in the 5 mile radius of Ferguson? Wouldn't that be far more relevant? Surely much of the traffic in Ferguson is going to be people from the surrounding towns, less so from the other side of the county.

 

[WildCat]

'39 While there are limitations to using basic population data as a benchmark when evaluating whether there are racial disparities in vehicle stops, it is sufficiently reliable here. In fact, in Ferguson, black drivers might account for less of the driving pool than would be expected from overall population rates because a lower proportion of blacks than whites is at or above the minimum driving age. See 2009-2013 5-Year American Community Survey, U.S. Census Bureau (2015) (showing higher proportion of black population in under-15 and under-19 age categories than white population). Ferguson officials have told us that they believe that black drivers account for more of the driving pool than their 67% share of the population because the driving pool also includes drivers traveling from neighboring municipalities—many of which have higher black populations than Ferguson. Our investigation casts doubt upon that claim. An analysis of zip-code data from the 53,850 summonses FPD issued from January 1, 2009 to October 14, 2014, shows that the African-American makeup for all zip codes receiving a summons—weighted by population size and the number of summonses received by people from that zip code—is 63%. Thus, there is substantial reason to believe that the share of drivers in Ferguson who are black is in fact lower than population data suggests.'[/I]
ETA:

WTAF:

Notice they went from "vehicle stops" so "summons". Why didn't they compare zip codes of vehicle stops? That is pretty suspicious right there, since they could have easily compared zip codes of vehicle stops. Also they say "many" of the surrounding areas have higher black populations, what is the percentage and how many of the 37% are from those areas?

There's obviously some selective use of statistics here.

 

[newyorkguy]

I have lived in what american call it a racially loaded area. In my experience the local white young guys were as much likely to do bad stuff. but they were far far more likely to not be searched, suspected, or disturbed...

I agree. I was a bit of a punk -- a white one -- when I was a teen and I would agree. With the white kids usually the cops were kind of, "Yeah we were young once too." Some of the cops -- not all by any means -- but some would tell us how much they despised black kids.

We had a bit of a multi-racial crowd and the black kids were obviously treated with a lot more hostility. It got to be a joke. One summer night four of us were roaming around when we got stopped. Three whites and a black kid named Pete. The cops asked us, "If you live over there, what you doing over here? Take it home guys." We started to walk off but the cops (who were both white) yelled to Pete. "You! Hold it, you got ID?" He said, "Oh come on." We were cynical kids and we laughed. But the cops didn't see the humor. They told Pete, "Shut your mouth and let's see some ID." They made him show ID and they questioned him. He was understandably furious.

I used to see that kind of thing all the time. Chris Rock advises young blacks who want to avoid trouble with police.

Get yourself a white friend and hang out with him!

 

[Walter Ego]

Thanks for demonstating exactly the kind of blind hatred toward the police I despise. People who blindly demonize the police are just as bad and stupid as those who blindly support them no matter what.

I don't hate cops, just pigs... unless you're assuming the two words are synonymous.

If it smells like bacon... call it what it is.

 

[tyr_13]

There's a reason cops are called...

PIGS

... and you don't have to be black to know why.

I don't hate cops, just pigs... unless you're assuming the two words are synonymous.

If it smells like bacon... call it what it is.

You're the one who said cops are pigs. Based on your other posts and that one quoted, I thought you were talking about cops in general as well.


Cops are humans, and any system should take that into account with mechanisms to reduce the problems that come from that. This case is one where those mechanism were absent, ineffective, or countered by other factors. That doesn't justify calling cops pigs. Ferguson has massive failures on multiple levels of the justice system, and the government, not simply the PD. This is not adequately addressed by just calling even only these cops pigs. Replace the force, and that would not be enough to address the problem there (although obviously many if not most on that force need to go).

Simply having better cops wouldn't be enough, not that it isn't a good idea.

 

[Walter Ego]

You're the one who said cops are pigs. Based on your other posts and that one quoted, I thought you were talking about cops in general as well.

Some cops are pigs...

And let me apologize to the four-legged variety for the comparison.

 

[Checkmite]

Some cops are pigs...

Is that kind of like how "some blacks" are (n-word)s?

 

[quixotecoyote]

Notice they went from "vehicle stops" so "summons". Why didn't they compare zip codes of vehicle stops? That is pretty suspicious right there, since they could have easily compared zip codes of vehicle stops. Also they say "many" of the surrounding areas have higher black populations, what is the percentage and how many of the 37% are from those areas?

There's obviously some selective use of statistics here.

There can always be more detail.

That there can always be more detail doesn't make it suspicious.

 

[newyorkguy]

There can always be more detail. That there can always be more detail doesn't make it suspicious.

There may be more detail.

I was just rereading an old thread. Someone was asked for "a cite" to validate a claim and they linked a report by a government agency. The report was hand-waved away because it had "no charts," it was just words. Only the report did have charts, a number of them. They were all in PDF but I copied a chart, converted it to a jpeg and posted it here. The objection that the report was worthless because it had no charts suddenly became the charts were worthless because the results "were too neat." It was a line graph and the objection was the lines were too symmetrical. Meaning they must be false.

When someone is discussing an issue arguing a personal agenda they are always going to come up with a "Yeah, but..." That's not going to change.

 

[12AX7]

The usual folks are still in defense mode.

Not surprised.

 

[Checkmite]

"Can't" and "won't" are not the same thing. If they were jailing people for being unable to pay a fine they would be suing instead of just issuing a report.

You say that based on what, exactly?

The Ferguson PD is only the latest of a whole slew of local police departments nationwide who have been investigated and found to have committed all sorts of civil rights violations by the DOJ. How many of those departments were sued?

Do not mistake the report for some kind of final word on the matter, as far as the DOJ is concerned. As late as this morning, the AG was saying that the Justice Department is prepared to take action, up to going as far as dismantling the FPD outright, depending on how satisfied they are with how local authorities respond to the facts discovered by the investigation.

 

[jimbob]

You're the one who said cops are pigs. Based on your other posts and that one quoted, I thought you were talking about cops in general as well.


Cops are humans, and any system should take that into account with mechanisms to reduce the problems that come from that. This case is one where those mechanism were absent, ineffective, or countered by other factors. That doesn't justify calling cops pigs. Ferguson has massive failures on multiple levels of the justice system, and the government, not simply the PD. This is not adequately addressed by just calling even only these cops pigs. Replace the force, and that would not be enough to address the problem there (although obviously many if not most on that force need to go).

Simply having better cops wouldn't be enough, not that it isn't a good idea.

Indeed. It is a basic idea behind civil society that there should be checks and balances, not only of elected officials, but also anyone in a position of power.

I have had little interaction with police in the UK, but what little has been positive. However, if I had lived in somewhere like Ferguson (or many of the other municipalities within St Louis county)- I guess that I might have a more knee-jerk reaction. It doesn't make that reaction helpful.

 

[Aber]

When we are faced with social issues of this level I try to look at it simply as a problem them to be rather then focus on where the blame lies (or worst still start immediately obsessing over which ideological side hast to accept blame and which gets to take credit.)

I fully admit that a factor, a factor that in no way excuses the FPD but a factor none the less, is that the FPD probably was undermanned, over worked, and had to deal with a crime ridden and extremely hostile to the police (if entirely justified) populace. One side being the villain doesn't make the other side the hero.

I hope either the future FDP or whatever Law Enforcement Organization replaces it receives the tools, manpower, and training they need I don't feel that that contradicts anything else I've said in this thread.

You should take into account the amount of work the FDP put into actions which led to revenue for the city - were they overworked because they were effectively creating work and revenue for themselves?

 

[jimbob]

St Louis city is 47.9% black
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29510.html

St Louis county is 23.7% black
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29189.html


Ferguson is 67.4% black

If anything, out of town drivers would be more likely to be white, flattering FPD

What is the demographics in the 5 mile radius of Ferguson? Wouldn't that be far more relevant? Surely much of the traffic in Ferguson is going to be people from the surrounding towns, less so from the other side of the county.

Given the other evidence of racism and other malpractice documented in the DoJ report (PDF here) and the anecdotal evidence of blacks from out of district avoiding Ferguson due to fear of discrimination, I'll let you see if you can massage the figures to make that look better for the FPD. In my view, for the above reasons, if one managed to sample the driving population within Ferguson, one is likely to see that Blacks would be under-represented relative to their population within Ferguson.

Your objection also doesn't address the fact that when stopped, blacks are 1.77 times more likely to be searched and less likely to have contraband compared to whites that they have stopped.

Notice they went from "vehicle stops" so "summons". Why didn't they compare zip codes of vehicle stops? That is pretty suspicious right there, since they could have easily compared zip codes of vehicle stops. Also they say "many" of the surrounding areas have higher black populations, what is the percentage and how many of the 37% are from those areas?
There's obviously some selective use of statistics here.

Ferguson officials told the DoJ that - the DoJ rejected it:

Ferguson officials have told us that they believe that black drivers account for more of the driving pool than their 67% share of the population because the driving pool also includes drivers traveling from neighboring municipalities—many of which have higher black populations than Ferguson. Our investigation casts doubt upon that claim.

Given how FPD fails to document use of force incidents, is there any reason to suppose that they document the Zip code of every driver that they stop? My reading is that the DoJ was trying to indirectly get an indicator on this and used summonses. There are many reasons why it is imperfect, but it is information that shouldn't be taken in isolation.

Unlike many situations where bias has to be inferred from actions, because many people are either not arrogant or stupid enough to provide documentary evidence of bigoted views, several officials in Ferguson were "kind" enough to provide this evidence:

We have discovered evidence of racial bias in emails sent by Ferguson officials, all of whom are current employees, almost without exception through their official City of Ferguson email accounts, and apparently sent during work hours. These email exchanges involved several police and court supervisors, including FPD supervisors and commanders. The following emails are illustrative:

Our review of documents revealed many additional email communications that exhibited racial or ethnic bias, as well as other forms of bias. Our investigation has not revealed any indication that any officer or court clerk engaged in these communications was ever disciplined. Nor did we see a single instance in which a police or court recipient of such an email asked that the sender refrain from sending such emails, or any indication that these emails were reported as inappropriate. Instead, the emails were usually forwarded along to others.

Critically, each of these email exchanges involved supervisors of FPD's patrol and court operations.50 FPD patrol supervisors are responsible for holding officers accountable to governing laws, including the Constitution, and helping to ensure that officers treat all people equally under the law, regardless of race or any other protected characteristic. The racial animus and stereotypes expressed by these supervisors suggest that they are unlikely to hold an officer accountable for discriminatory conduct or to take any steps to discourage the development or perpetuation of racial stereotypes among officers.

Since this report has come out we know that one was the second ranking officer in FPD, as he has subsequently resigned. One was a sergeant who has also resigned (there were four sergeants supervising the patrol officers).

Patrol officer emails were apparently on a different system, so more likely to be deleted.

Given these two sets of information alone, it would require extraordinary evidence to claim that racism did not play a part in policing in Ferguson.

 

[Mumbles]

For less serious reasons, I feel that way about most of the townships in the county.

That may not be such a bad idea.

As I recall, Goldie Taylor asked the DoJ to look into *every* police department in the St. Louis County back when the protests first broke out. And she has pointed to several towns in the area, showing that they all have the same basic problems of corruption. It's not quite necessary to combine them all with St. Louis proper, but they could stand to be combined...

 

[Mumbles]

You mean the black mourners shooting in an apartment complex and threatening to kill police?

...here's the thing. The Ferguson PD lost their credibility about 6-7 months ago.

You got evidence? Feel free to post it.

 

[jimbob]

No one goes to jail because they can't pay tickets. They go to jail because they don't show up for their court date.

It is hard to turn up for a court date if you haven't been informed. Or indeed if you turned up at the wrong time because you were given the wrong information

Court Practices and Procedural Deficiencies Create a Lack of Transparency Regarding Rights and Responsibilities

It is often difficult for an individual who receives a municipal citation or summons in Ferguson to know how much is owed, where and how to pay the ticket, what the options for payment are, what rights the individual has, and what the consequences are for various actions or oversights. The initial information provided to people who are cited for violating Ferguson’s municipal code is often incomplete or inconsistent. Communication with municipal court defendants is haphazard and known by the court to be unreliable. And the court’s procedures and operations are ambiguous, are not written down, and are not transparent or even available to the public on the court’s website or elsewhere.

Current court practices fail to provide adequate information even to those who are charged with a municipal violation. The lack of clarity about a person’s rights and responsibilities often begins from the moment a person is issued a citation. For some offenses, FPD uses state of Missouri uniform citations, and typically indicates on the ticket the assigned court date for the offense. Many times, however, FPD officers omit critical information from the citation, which makes it impossible for a person to determine the specific nature of the offense charged, the amount of the fine owed, or whether a court appearance is required or some alternative method of payment is available. In some cases, citations fail to indicate the offense charged altogether; in November 2013, for instance, court staff wrote FPD patrol to “see what [a] ticket was for” because it “does not have a charge on it.” In other cases, a ticket will indicate a charge but omit other crucial information. For example, speeding tickets often fail to indicate the alleged speed observed, even though both the fine owed and whether a court appearance is mandatory depends upon the specific speed alleged. Evidence shows that in some of these cases,a person has appeared in court but been unable to resolve the citation because of the missing information. In June 2014, for instance, a court clerk wrote to an FPD officer: “The above ticket . . . does not have a speed in it. The guy came in and we had to send him away. Can you email me the speed when you get time.” Separate and apart from the difficulties these omissions create for people, the fact that the court staff routinely add the speed to tickets weeks after they are issued raises concerns about the accuracy and reliability of officers’ assertions in official records

It is thus unsurprising that, on one occasion, a City employee who works in the building where court was held wrote the Court Clerk to tell her that “[a] few people stopped by tonight looking for court and I referred them to you.” The email notes that one person insisted on providing her information so the employee could “vouch for her appearance for Night Court.” The email does not identify any other individual who showed up for court that night, nor does it state that any steps were taken to ensure that those assigned the incorrect court date did not have Failure to Appear charges and fines imposed, arrest warrants issued against them, or their licenses suspended.

Further, even for the cases in which the court says it does send such letters prior to issuing a warrant, court records suggest that those letters are often not actually sent. Even where a letter is sent, some are returned to court, and court staff told us that in those cases, they make no additional effort to notify the individual of the new court date or the consequences of non-appearance. Court staff and staff from other municipal courts have informed us that defendants in poverty are more likely not to receive such a letter from court because they frequently change residence.

Once a warrant is issued, a person can clear the warrant by appearing at the court window in the police department and paying a pre-determined bond. However, that process is itself not communicated to the public and, in any case, is only useful if an individual knows there is a warrant for her or his arrest.

If a person is arrested on an outstanding warrant—or as the result of an encounter with FPD—it is often difficult to secure release with a bond payment, not only because of the inordinately high bond amounts discussed below, but also because of procedural obstacles. In practice, bond procedures depart from those articulated in official policy, and are arbitrary and confusing. FPD staff have told us that correctional officers have at times tried to find a warrant in the court’s files to determine the bond amount owed, but have been unable to do so. This is unsurprising given the existence of what has been described to us as “drawers and drawers of warrants.” In some cases, people have attempted to pay a bond to secure the release of a family

​

Needlessly Requiring In-Court Appearances for Most Code Violations Imposes Unnecessary Obstacles to Resolving Cases

Requiring an individual to appear at a specific place and time to pay a citation makes it far more likely that the individual will fail to appear or pay the citation on time, quickly resulting, in Ferguson, in an arrest warrant and a suspended license. Even setting aside the fact that people often receive inaccurate information about when they must appear in court, the in-person appearance requirement imposes particular difficulties on low-wage workers, single parents, and those with limited access to reliable transportation. Requiring an individual to appear in court also imposes particular burdens on those with jobs that have set hours that may conflict with an assigned court session. Court sessions are sometimes set during the workday and sometimes in the early evening. Additionally, while court dates can be set for several months after the citation was issued, in some cases they can also be issued as early as a week after a citation is received. For example, court staff have instructed FPD officers that derelict auto violations must be set for the “very next court date even if it is just a week . . . or so away.” This can add an additional obstacle for those with firmly established employment schedules

In addition, as Ferguson’s Municipal Judge confirmed, it is not uncommon for him to add charges and assess additional fines when a defendant challenges the citation that brought the defendant into court. Appearing in court in Ferguson also requires waits that can stretch into hours, sometimes outdoors in inclement weather. Many individuals report being treated dismissively, or worse, by court staff and the Municipal Judge.

​

d. Court Operations Impose Obstacles to Resolving Even Those Offenses that Do Not Require In-Person Court Appearance

As a result, many people try to remit payment to the court window within the police department. But community members have informed us that the court window often closes earlier than the posted hours indicate. Indeed, during our investigation, we observed the court window close at 4:30 p.m. on days where an evening court session was not being held, despite the fact that both the Ferguson City website and the Missouri Courts website state that the window closes at 5:00 p.m.

I could go on


​

 

[jimbob]

It is hard to turn up for a court date if you haven't been informed. Or indeed if you turned up at the wrong time because you were given the wrong information

Court Practices and Procedural Deficiencies Create a Lack of Transparency Regarding Rights and Responsibilities











​

Needlessly Requiring In-Court Appearances for Most Code Violations Imposes Unnecessary Obstacles to Resolving Cases




​

d. Court Operations Impose Obstacles to Resolving Even Those Offenses that Do Not Require In-Person Court Appearance


I could go on


​

Actually I will

As noted above, documents we reviewed showed that even where individuals are successful in talking with court staff about a citation, FPD-issued citations are sometimes so deficient that court staff are unable to determine what the fine, or even charge, is supposed to be. Evidence also shows that court staff have at times been unable to even find a person’s case file, often because the FPD officer who issued the ticket failed to properly file a copy. In these cases, a person is left unable to resolve her or his citation.

e. High Fines, Coupled with Legally Inadequate Ability-to-Pay Determinations and Insufficient Alternatives to Immediate Payment, Impose a Significant Burden on People Living In or Near Poverty​

The court imposes these fines without providing any process by which a person can seek a fine reduction on account of financial incapacity. The court does not provide any opportunity for a person unable to pay a preset TVB fine to seek a modification of the fine amount. Nor does the court consider a person’s financial ability to pay in determining how much of a fine to impose in cases without preset fines. The Ferguson court’s failure to assess a defendant’s ability to pay stands in direct tension with Missouri law, which instructs that in determining the amount and the method of payment of a fine, a court “shall, insofar as practicable, proportion the fine to the burden that payment will impose in view of the financial resources of an individual.” Mo. Rev. Stat. § 560.026.

Unlike some other municipalities that require a $50 monthly payment, Ferguson’s standard payment plan requires payments of $100 per month, which remains a difficult amount for many to pay, especially those who are also making payments to other municipalities. Further, the court treats a single missed, partial, or untimely payment as a missed appearance. In such a case, the court immediately issues an arrest warrant without any notice or opportunity to explain why a payment was missed—for example, because the person was sick, or the court closed its doors early that day. The court reportedly has softened this rule during the course of our investigation by allowing a person who has missed a payment to go to court to seek leave for not paying the full amount owed. However, even this softened rule provides minimal relief, as making this request requires a person to appear in court the first Wednesday of the month at 11:00 a.m. If a person misses that session, the court immediately issues an arrest warrant.

Before the court provided this Wednesday morning court session for those on payment plans, court staff frequently rejected requests from payment plan participants to reduce or continue monthly payments—leaving individuals unable to make the required payment with no recourse besides incurring a Failure to Appear charge, receiving additional fines, and having an arrest warrant issued. In July 2014, an assistant court clerk wrote in an email that she rejected a defendant’s request for a reduced monthly payment on account of inability to pay and told the
54
defendant, “everyone says [they] can’t pay.” This is consistent with earlier noted statements by the acting Ferguson prosecutor that he stopped granting “needless requests for continuances from the payment docket.” Another defendant who owed $1,002 in fines and fees stemming from a Driving with a Revoked License charge wrote to a City official that he would be unable to make his required monthly payment but hoped to avoid having a warrant issued. He explained that he was unemployed, that the court had put him on a payment plan only a week before his first payment was due, and that he did not have enough time to gather enough money. He implored the City to provide “some kind of community service to work off the fines/fees,” stating that “I want to pay you guys what I owe” and “I have been trying to scrape up what I can,” but that “with warrants it’s hard to get a job.” The City official forwarded the request to a court clerk, who noted that the underlying charge dated back to 2007, that five Failure to Appear charges had been levied, and that no payments had yet been made. The clerk responded: “In this certain case [the defendant] will go to warrant.” Records show that, only a week earlier, this same clerk asked a court clerk from another municipality to clear a ticket for former Ferguson Police Chief Moonier as a “courtesy.”And, only a month later, that same clerk also helped the Ferguson Collector of Revenue clear two citations issued by neighboring municipalities

ETA: People do go to jail for tying to pay in part