Continuation Part 12: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Planigale]

Interesting point.
Even if they are soap residue, they may be splatter from hand-washing and have trapped some epithelial cells.

Certainly along with other possibilities may be Knox had a bit of gingivitis a common cause of bleeding from the mouth especially when cleaning the teeth. My non expert opinion is that there also appears to have been water drops falling on the blood drops subsequently suggesting the blood was not recent and the basin had been used since the blood was deposited.

The tap is obviously dirty and had not benn cleaned by anyone (meredith or Amanda) for many days for all the talk of comparative cleanliness.

 

[Planigale]

This seems a bit circular. It looks like you are willing to maintain that the knife was smaller, because the picture "clearly shows" the handle (the size of the knife depends on your theory that the mark was caused by the handle). And, well, you argue that you think the print was caused by the handle, based on the assumption that the knife was clearly small.

In fact you cannot support an argument that way; what you are saying, is just that you consider those assumptions as self-evident, and you are not going to question the theory.

But I think it's been tow times you failed to reply about Stefanoni: what do you have to say about your claims and about Stefanoni's statements at p. 16 of her 2008 testimony?

My Italian is not as good as your English, it takes me time to work thru the testimony.

 

[Numbers]

Certainly along with other possibilities may be Knox had a bit of gingivitis a common cause of bleeding from the mouth especially when cleaning the teeth. My non expert opinion is that there also appears to have been water drops falling on the blood drops subsequently suggesting the blood was not recent and the basin had been used since the blood was deposited.

The tap is obviously dirty and had not benn cleaned by anyone (meredith or Amanda) for many days for all the talk of comparative cleanliness.

Water drops and presumed water/soap drops appear to have hit the blood spots that are on the faucet.

When someone says that they have cleaned a household area, that should not be interpreted as their having done so to some particular standard of quality. Certainly college students may miss some details of cleaning. My perhaps inaccurate memory of apartment cleaning during college was that it was done primarily: 1) in anticipation of the visit of important persons (parents), 2) to relieve boredom, 3) as an excuse not to study (when other excuses were unavailable), and 4) when the lease was about to expire (move out time).

 

[Annella]

Water drops and presumed water/soap drops appear to have hit the blood spots that are on the faucet.

When someone says that they have cleaned a household area, that should not be interpreted as their having done so to some particular standard of quality. Certainly college students may miss some details of cleaning. My perhaps inaccurate memory of apartment cleaning during college was that it was done primarily: 1) in anticipation of the visit of important persons (parents), 2) to relieve boredom, 3) as an excuse not to study (when other excuses were unavailable), and 4) when the lease was about to expire (move out time).

As someone who regularly cleans 3 bathrooms ( ours!) I believe the dense white spots are from toothpaste. Toothpaste spat into/onto basin. Soap, IMO, does not leave such white marks as shown in the closeup pics. Test it yourself. Easy enough to do as long as you have an understanding spouse with no OCD condition involving cleanliness.
And another thing, I agree with the view some have expressed that the bathroom basin had not been cleaned for a few days. Either that or Meredith and Amanda were prolific spitters.

 

[Samson]

As someone who regularly cleans 3 bathrooms ( ours!) I believe the dense white spots are from toothpaste. Toothpaste spat into/onto basin. Soap, IMO, does not leave such white marks as shown in the closeup pics. Test it yourself. Easy enough to do as long as you have an understanding spouse with no OCD condition involving cleanliness.
And another thing, I agree with the view some have expressed that the bathroom basin had not been cleaned for a few days. Either that or Meredith and Amanda were prolific spitters.

It seems Filomena was a tidy freak and Meredith was a clean freak. hmm

 

[Annella]

It seems Filomena was a tidy freak and Meredith was a clean freak. hmm

Well either Laura or Filomena did not consider that to be true. I will try to find the relevant testimony that I read a couple of weeks ago but when one of them was asked if the new house cleaning rules were adhered to by both Amanda and Meredith, the answer was a very definitive NO.

 

[Dan O.]

Another point Hendry made is the tree was still in leaf, providing good visual cover, and darkness had fallen.
The prosecution used the closed external shutters to explain the straight line of the glass on the ledge when the window was broken from inside, but pulling the shutters closed after entry has the same effect*. All the glass is on the right hand side from outside, and he climbed in the left leaving the debris in the photo. Neatly stacked glass is another signature from the lawyer break in.

* I remember DanO had another idea here, but can't recall what.

Did the prosecution make that claim? I thought it was an invention of the less informed guilters. The photo most often cited showing the alignment of the glass on the sill was taken chronologically after the investigators had closed and latched the outer shutters themselves.

 

[Dan O.]

A peculiarity of Amanda Knox as a suspect, was that she knew exactly that all other house lodgers were out that night except Meredith and her. Meredith was the only person - besides her - who would be sleeping at the cottege that night, and both Meredith Kercher and Amanda Knox knew that

You lie.

 

[Dan O.]

In that cottage, all break-ins we have record about were from the balcony.

In general statistics, almost all burglaries are from ground floor doors/windows or from balconies (or equivalent surfaces). I mean it's a figure above 99%.

And there is also another statistical rule: burglars always chose the easiest way in (less dangerous/visible or easiest to break through). Take it as a rule.

Stupid position ignores the reality of the situation which I pointed out years ago.

 

[Dan O.]

Alright then. . . Present the record of multiple break ins through the balcony

The morning of November 14, 2007: Barbie Nadeu take a photo of the entrance to the cottage. Carefully analysis of that photo shows that the front door which must be locked with a key is wide open and the security tape has pealed down. Someone with a key has apparently broken into the cottage the previous night.

http://lastrada.blogspot.com/2007/11/perugia-crime-scene-14-november-2007-as.html

 

[codyjuneau]

Amy Strange,

Professor Vinci found the stain without anyone's help. But the stain should have been (and probably was) tested in the days after the murder. This is the evidence that should have led them to Guede. After having been treated to some of police's shoddy, inept, and unprofessional forensic work, I might have felt (much as Raffaele apparently did) that any result that Stefanoni generated post-November 6th was something that no self-respecting parakeet would want to be used as lining for his cage.

.
Can you imagine a judicial system where the forensic evidence is not tested unless the defendant asks the State to test it?

Investigator Moroni: "So sir, we have charged you with this crime because we observed you eating pizza and have concluded you are guilty. Will you please ask us to test the putative semen stain found on the pillow under the victim's naked body so that we can prove it? Perfavore, perpiacere, percortesia."

Cody
.

 

[Dan O.]

No. He climbed THEN used a balcony. And the cottage climb was said to be around 3 metres, Brocchi estimates 3 to 4 metres at his office. And with windows from nearby apartments facing where the break in occurred!! Seems this particular burglar wasn't in the least concerned about being seen at that Law Office, nor the cottage.

Is it just a coincidence that the residence of Sophie Purton, the last person known to be with Meredith before her fateful encounter with Rudy guede, overlooks the same courtyard where the breakin to the lawyers office could be witnessed?

 

[Samson]

Did the prosecution make that claim? I thought it was an invention of the less informed guilters. The photo most often cited showing the alignment of the glass on the sill was taken chronologically after the investigators had closed and latched the outer shutters themselves.

Massei used the glass alignment to support his internal action theory in his motivation report, though my scholarship is memory driven .

 

[Mr Fied]

I don't "remove" anyone; but neitner I need to "place" someone somewhere.

But Knox's guilt - as well as the evidence of it - does not depend on her being present in the room.

Surely the evidence has to prove that she is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in order to convict.

So I would have thought that the prosecutor and both convicting courts would have the same narrative of the crime, otherwise this surely means the evidence has not proven guilt BARD, but even they cannot stick to one theory.

If the evidence was so strong we should know by now who done what to whom, where and when.

So, who was in the room at the time of the murder?

Was anyone directing actions from the kitchen?

Where is the evidence of a clean up?

How reliable and consistent with each other are all the ear/eye witnesses?

 

[Samson]

Did the prosecution make that claim? I thought it was an invention of the less informed guilters. The photo most often cited showing the alignment of the glass on the sill was taken chronologically after the investigators had closed and latched the outer shutters themselves.

Working from the standard crime theory,
Rudy broke the window from the car park, and climbed in, and closed the external shutters to avoid being noticed. This aligns the glass he placed on the sill when widening the gap before unlatching the internal shutters.

But your point is very important, because it will remind the American people that the crime scene was a tourist mecca before the forensic analysis determined that footprints could be ascribed with certainty to just three people.

 

[lonepinealex]

It is absolutely false.
As Nencini also notes.

The balcony is visible from the road only from a 35-meter distance, but it is completely at the side, off from headlights direction and in the darkness.

Moreover, a human being on the balcony would not appear suspicious.

All true break-ins were from the balcony.



Filomena's room is indeed only five meters from S. Antonio road right above; almost in the direction of headlights from cars at the parking crossroad, directly under the lamp lights and well visible from the parking lot and from the crossroad.

In fact, statistics say burglars basically always choose entrances that have a surface below them at the same ground level, that is either entrance doors and windows at ground floor, or windows with balconies.

Presumably you have night time photos which prove all of this? Because the daytime pictures I've seen show angles which back up my assertion. Would love to see some night time pictures with all the street lights etc on.

When did the balcony break ins happen? Do you have evidence for them? Filomena's window was fitted with bars after the murder, which seems excessive for a window which only Superman (or was it Spiderman? I forget) could access.

 

[Samson]

Presumably you have night time photos which prove all of this? Because the daytime pictures I've seen show angles which back up my assertion. Would love to see some night time pictures with all the street lights etc on.

When did the balcony break ins happen? Do you have evidence for them? Filomena's window was fitted with bars after the murder, which seems excessive for a window which only Superman (or was it Spiderman? I forget) could access.

And Filomena had expressed concern to the land lord/lady that her window was insecure before the crime!
Clearly this related to the shutters being difficult to close. Yet guilter theory says that concern could never be real.

 

[anglolawyer]

-


-

I'm the one who brought up the massive scale idea. My original thought was, if she was manufacturing evidence, why did she need to go get the bra-clasp?

I personally believe that she really believes her new-age vodoo forensics is the next big step in legal forensics, but I still have to laugh if she really did say her lab had no contamination. Ha ha,

But, I don't believe she would literally manufacture evidence,
d

-

The problem I have with attributing her claimed results to mere incompetence is their extraordinary convenience. Once you have concluded that Knox and Sollecito had nothing to do with the crime then it stretches credulity to imagine that, just by chance, a tiny trace of the victim's DNA found its way into Raf's kitchen drawer and onto the blade of a knife there and that the police unerringly homed in on this one knife without even making a show of testing all the other rather more likely candidates (knives from the apartment, the downstairs apartment, Patrick's place and Le Chic) and that the tests were not repeatable (the reason why the DNA was was low copy IMO) and/or falsified and/or suppressed and/or lied about in court.

As someone here graphically put it, she holed her second to the 18th to make the play off and then, with the bra clasp, holed in one at the first play off hole to win (not forgetting to destroy that evidence too!). Sure.

 

[Rolfe]

I think there's a huge gulf between cherry-picking results and spinning the conclusions to suit the prosecution, and actually fabricating results. A huge majority of the known cases of forensic misconduct that I'm aware of involve the former. I think there's a leap of dishonesty required to cross that gulf, and most of the investigators don't take it.

I also think that if someone was going to fabricate data deliberately, it would be a lot less dubious than this is. I think she's beavered around testing all sorts of bits on the knife and other items, fiddling with the controls on the machine, until she found something that looked spinnable in the direction the police wanted.

 

[anglolawyer]

I think there's a huge gulf between cherry-picking results and spinning the conclusions to suit the prosecution, and actually fabricating results. A huge majority of the known cases of forensic misconduct that I'm aware of involve the former. I think there's a leap of dishonesty required to cross that gulf, and most of the investigators don't take it.

I also think that if someone was going to fabricate data deliberately, it would be a lot less dubious than this is. I think she's beavered around testing all sorts of bits on the knife and other items, fiddling with the controls on the machine, until she found something that looked spinnable in the direction the police wanted.

And the clasp too … ?