The Electric Comet theory

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Nope. ...
And there are testable implications about this EDM fantasy: Haig is stating that the more times that a comet has a close approach to the Sun, the darker it will be.
Thus
* The shorter the period of a comet, the darker it will be.
* There will be some comets that are basically white because it is their first time approaching the Sun.
But AFAIK comets have roughly the same albedo, e.g. The Albedo Distribution of Jovian Trojan Asteroids.
 
That is correct, Sol88

Snipped...

The electric comet delusion has already failed abysmally because the measured density of comets is less than water. No rock has been detected on any comet.

Snipped....

You are good Reality Check, again you are correct, no rocks.

Only boulders and rubble piles!!! :jaw-dropp

The boulder-like structures that Rosetta has revealed in many places on the surface of 67P/C-G are one of the comet’s most striking and mysterious features (see yesterday’s CometWatch for a focus on the boulders on the comet’s ‘neck’ region).

Just like the many other boulders seen by both OSIRIS and the spacecraft’s NAVCAM, Cheops stands out not just physically, but also as a slightly brighter feature compared to the darker surface around it.

OSIRIS Principal Investigator Holger Sierks, from the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research (MPS) in Germany, describes the surface of Cheops as “very craggy and irregular.”

It's a mystery!!! If comets are dirtysnowballs!!! :)

I dare to say totally unexpected! :)

And since YOU know they are not rocks (remember YOU only have dust and ice to work with) have again let prior inertia of the dirty snowball paradigm to allow you to stay safe and warm with what you know comets to be, icydusty leftovers from the formation of the solar system, against all evidence otherwise including what was excavated subsurface by Deep Impact.

including clays, carbonates, sulphides and silicates. ROCK.

Not sure delusional is the correct word, Reality Check.
 
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You are good Reality Check, again you are correct, no rocks.
I am correct, Sol88: no rocks or rock boulders or rock rubble piles unless someone is deluded enough to think that comets are made of rock. The bloggers on the Rosetta web site know basic facts about comets and do so will not be deluded that comets are rocks. Thus to anyone who can understand science and English:
Boulder close-up is a close-up of a boulder of ice and dust.
An image with no source of "rubble piles" is an image of ice and dust rubble piles.

ETA: The author of that blog entry looks like Emily Baldwin
Emily is a space science journalist from the UK, and has been based at ESA's European Space Research and Technology Centre (ESTEC) in Noordwijk, the Netherlands, since April 2012. She reports for ESA's Space Science Web portal team covering science stories resulting from ESA's missions. She has a PhD in planetary science and a keen interest in all things comets and asteroids. She previously blogged for ESA during the 2012 transit of Venus, live from Longyearbyen, Spitsbergen, and is an editor for the Gaia launch campaign blog. For Rosetta coverage she will be writing news for the Space Science Portal, and contributing content to this blog and to ESA's various social media channels.
(my emphasis added)
She is not a mythologist who makes up fairy stories about comets (Talbott) or a physicist who has fallen for Velikovsky's delusion and has a fantasy about electrical discharges creating the Grand Canyon (Thornhill) or an electrical engineer who is comfortable working with people who hold such fantasies as real (Scott).

There is no mystery to anyone who bothers to learn about the scientific model of comets rather then obsessing on popular science labels, Sol88: Comets are made of ices and dust. Basic physics will tell you that ice and dust in space will form shapes that look like rocks in images (it has to do with something called gravity!).

Plenty unexpected (and a few things unexpected): Rosetta images of Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko 1: Near-surface icy terrain similar to comet Tempel-1 Max Wallis1 and N. Chandra Wickramasinghe.

You do not have to repeat The Thunderbolts delusion that clays, carbonates, sulphides and silicates found in dust particles is ROCK, Sol88. We already know that thinking that dust particles are ROCKS is a delusion. Though a source on Thunderbolts would be good so that we can be sure that this is their delusion based on their ignorance between the difference between DUST PARTICLES and ROCK.

Delusional is the correct word for the 60-year old delusion that planets whizz around to fit the cherry picked myths in volition of the laws of physics: myths: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site and videos (mostly about their electric comet delusion but there is other stuff).
We have to thank Haig for making it clear that the basis of the electric comet idea is the Velikovsky's delusion from the 1950's :p!
 
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Now Mathis and Pi ...

Steve David Urich blog on The Pi=4 Theory is a case in point ... language "the crown jewel of crackpottery. This theory alone has elevated Mathis from an obscure, struggling artist and ballet dancer, to undisputed King of the Crackpots." ; "other assorted silliness and hogwash." : "the most outlandish and absurd nonsense that Mathis, or any other crank, has ever produced; this is crackpottery on steroids." : "this idiotic and perposterous theory:" just a sample :eek:

Some of Mathis papers that sparked this abuse ...

Proof from NASA that π is 4


and

Clarification of the equation a = v2/r


I don't see a problem with Mathis's logic, reasoning or math and he is right to point to the "holes" in mainstream dogma. ;)

He is not alone ...

The problem of "Pi" and the problem of "Prime Numbers"

Haig appears to be adopting a strategy popular among pseudo-scientists who have run out of facts - they start making up their own, the more ridiculous, the better. Instead of supporting pi=4, he could have just as easily starting claiming 1+1 = 7.

The fact that his claims can be proven wrong by grade-school children with basic construction skills is irrelevant.

At this point, the goal of the pseudo-scientist is to wear down the opposition by defending the most stupid position possible. Their opponents eventually start to give up, since the pseudo-scientist no longer accepts ANY facts but those they choose (and even those are conditional), so constructive discussion becomes impossible.

The pseudo-scientist will try to make the last active post of the thread. They can thereby claim victory saying no one has disproven their position!

Of course, the pseudo-scientists will still be stuck with the embarrassing fact that the ECH is useless for doing any real space-flight development, such as planning an actual mission to visit a comet.
 
..snipped links to the crank Miles Mathis...Steve David Urich blog on The Pi=4 Theory is a case in point ... language ...
Let us add some context to your set of cherry picked quotes, Haig:
"Quantitatively, this may be THE biggest error in all of math and physics, since every single physical equation with π in it must now be thrown out and redone.” — Miles Mathis

The Pi=4 theory is the crown jewel of crackpottery. This theory alone has elevated Mathis from an obscure, struggling artist and ballet dancer, to undisputed King of the Crackpots.

The theory in its entirety consists of five articles (nearly 40 pages), and one simple diagram: ...
The gist of the theory basically boils down to this. Draw little stair-steps around the outside of a circle, and then pretend that the curve and the stair-steps are actually one and the same:

“The arc is defined as a curve composed of linear or straight vectors.” — Miles Mathis

So curves are composed of little stair-steps. That’s it. That’s the entire theory in a nutshell. Well that, and other assorted silliness and hogwash.

This theory is without doubt the most outlandish and absurd nonsense that Mathis, or any other crank, has ever produced; this is crackpottery on steroids. The sheer volume of errors in the theory prohibits me from listing them all; there is far too many for that. So here is just a partial list of errors found in this idiotic and perposterous theory:
...followed by a list of 13 absurdities...
Ex Falso (Mathis Watchblog)
Good Math, Bad Math
The links at the bottom are the first 2 to other blogs basically saying the same about the pi =4 delsusion, then a couple of reviews of his book, some Thunderbolts forum posts that may blindly support Mathis, etc.
 
Lightening (Birkeland currents) to the Planets (nucleus) e.g. ... The Balloon goes up over lightning!

So now lightning is also produced by Birkeland currents?
I am sure you can show me a model of the Earth's magnetic field in which the paths of lightning show up, and how they hit my front garden, which would make the lightning go at a very large angle with respect to the Earth's magnetic field.

This is another example of Haig constantly changing definitions and making up his own kind of "plasma physics", I guess he is following the third approach of plasma physics: "just suck it out of your thumb".
 
this has been dicussed, sol, about 50 pages back or so.
on the moon water is produced by this mechanism, but only something like a pint per several football fields, over rhe lifetime of the moon.
like said, show that you can produce at least as much water as comes from the early 67P, the one can maybe think about this mechanism.
but as now haig has pulled the plug from edm and turned it into edm-like in the second approach nonsense, sobwho cares.


Why can't it happen on a comet then, tusenfem?

wow, your text from 2009!!
and i guess you have forgotten that we have discussed water creation in silicates by the solar wind on the moon, the process is not the big problem, the production RATE is.

are they special rocky airless bodies?

Everything needed is there. :)
 
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What "bright stuff or more correctly "stuff shining thru" at the jet source", Sol88?
Which paper or scientist are you quoting for "stuff shining thru"?
Please cite the scientific literature, not any Thunderbolts fantasies.

It is a lie to state that any of the ECH delusion has been confirmed by pictures of Tempel 1. None of the pictures are of rock. None of the pictures show electrical discharges. None of the pictures show electrical discharge machining.

Interesting bunch of ignorance and delusions here from a B Talbott.
* comet science has an explanation for the color of comet surfaces which is not delusions about ECM!
* surface ice has only been seen on one comet and so was not expected on 67P.
* multiple craters are expected on comets - given the billions of years and billions of comets and meteoroids, collisions are inevitable. Even the smaller moons have craters.
* the deluded cherry picking of a blob created in an electric arc.
* the delusion that inner system dust that was found in the Stardust mission means that comets formed there - "stardust" was also found :eek:!
* the almost lie of quoting scientists stating stuff was a surprise as if that was bad. That is how science progresses - through finding unexpected stuff that is unexpected.
* The idea that scientists will "arrive at the Electric Universe through the back door" is truly ignorant. Scientists know more about electromagnetism than the Thunderbolts people and include it in their scientific models where appropriate.


Ok boss. :dig:
 
I am correct, Sol88: no rocks or rock boulders or rock rubble piles unless someone is deluded enough to think that comets are made of rock. The bloggers on the Rosetta web site know basic facts about comets and do so will not be deluded that comets are rocks. Thus to anyone who can understand science and English:
Boulder close-up is a close-up of a boulder of ice and dust.
An image with no source of "rubble piles" is an image of ice and dust rubble piles.

ETA: The author of that blog entry looks like Emily Baldwin

(my emphasis added)
She is not a mythologist who makes up fairy stories about comets (Talbott) or a physicist who has fallen for Velikovsky's delusion and has a fantasy about electrical discharges creating the Grand Canyon (Thornhill) or an electrical engineer who is comfortable working with people who hold such fantasies as real (Scott).

There is no mystery to anyone who bothers to learn about the scientific model of comets rather then obsessing on popular science labels, Sol88: Comets are made of ices and dust. Basic physics will tell you that ice and dust in space will form shapes that look like rocks in images (it has to do with something called gravity!).

Plenty unexpected (and a few things unexpected): Rosetta images of Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko 1: Near-surface icy terrain similar to comet Tempel-1 Max Wallis1 and N. Chandra Wickramasinghe.

You do not have to repeat The Thunderbolts delusion that clays, carbonates, sulphides and silicates found in dust particles is ROCK, Sol88. We already know that thinking that dust particles are ROCKS is a delusion. Though a source on Thunderbolts would be good so that we can be sure that this is their delusion based on their ignorance between the difference between DUST PARTICLES and ROCK.

Delusional is the correct word for the 60-year old delusion that planets whizz around to fit the cherry picked myths in volition of the laws of physics: myths: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site and videos (mostly about their electric comet delusion but there is other stuff).
We have to thank Haig for making it clear that the basis of the electric comet idea is the Velikovsky's delusion from the 1950's :p!

Ok, boss :eusa_clap:

Are they boulders of mainly ICE and a little DUST or are the mainly DUST and a bit of ICE? :eusa_eh:

or 50/50 for both? :eusa_think:
 
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Why can't it happen on a comet then, tusenfem?



are they special rocky airless bodies?

Everything needed is there. :)

It can happen on Comets just not at the rate claimed by Electric Comet proponents.

If it happened at the rate claimed on Comets don't you think we would see a lot more water produced from the Moon? Or is it a special airless body that can only produce a fraction of the claimed amount for Comets?
 
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It can happen on Comets just not at the rate claimed by Electric Comet proponents.

If it happened at the rate claimed on Comets don't you think we would see a lot more water produced from the Moon? Or is it a special airless body that can only produce a fraction of the claimed amount for Comets?

What is the relative speed for the solar wind over the comet?

What's the solar wind speed over the moon?

Taking into account the relative motion of both thru the solar wind. :cool:

What if a CME slipped past, do you think the water production would increase as well?
 
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@ Cygnus_X1 (Tom), Reality Check, GraculusTheGreenBird ... et al Guys,Guys, Guys your all barking up the wrong tree :D

The Pi man isn't here and I'm not eating your stale mince Pi. Mathis would run Pi rings around you lot if you try to debate him on his site or anywhere.

If you want to chat about his papers that I posted (relevant to this thread, scroll back ) ... that's fine. Otherwise it's just wishful Pi in the sky to be ignored :D


So now lightning is also produced by Birkeland currents?
I am sure you can show me a model of the Earth's magnetic field in which the paths of lightning show up, and how they hit my front garden, which would make the lightning go at a very large angle with respect to the Earth's magnetic field.

This is another example of Haig constantly changing definitions and making up his own kind of "plasma physics", I guess he is following the third approach of plasma physics: "just suck it out of your thumb".

Gezz tusenfem, don't you know even that ?

The Balloon goes up over lightning!
An interesting footnote to lightning on Venus:
It is known that lightning backscatters microwaves at wavelengths of a few centimetres. One of the most puzzling discoveries by the Magellan Venus Orbiter was that all high terrain on Venus reflected radar signals as if it were coated by metal. I explained this phenomenon several years ago as being due to a glow discharge in a dense plasma. It is the most prevalent form of lightning on Venus because that planet doesn’t have clouds like the Earth to provide a convenient path to ground for cosmic electric power. Without clouds on Earth we too would have glowing mountain tops and destructive super-bolts from a blue sky. The Galileo spacecraft detected super-bolts on Venus.


A Lightning Strike in Africa Helps Take the Pulse of the Sun

Evidence for solar wind modulation of lightning PDF

Modulation of UK lightning by heliospheric magnetic field polarity
 
Starts to get complex eh!

What's the surface charge on the moons surface compared to a comet?

The only thing Sol can do, answering questions with questions.
Did your mamah not tell you that is impolite?
 
Stop playing an idiot, if you cannot read, then you don't belong here.

You are the PLASMA scientist here, so why be so candid?

I'm sure the great unwashed would like an answer from a proper mainstream scientist working on comet 67P under the RPC.

Why can't the observed OH and H2O be produced in this manner?

You mentioned something about rate??

or will it get you into trouble with the rest of the team?
 
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The Pi man isn't here and I'm not eating your stale mince Pi. Mathis would run Pi rings around you lot if you try to debate him on his site or anywhere.
Not hardly.
:p
Mathis's ideas did not hold up very well even when they were discussed at the Thunderbolts Forum. That fiasco ended with this eye-roll by moderator Dave Smith:
davesmith_au said:
Now 13 pages long, I see no value in keeping this Miles Mathis topic alive. To derive the circumference of a circle by using (half) squares is, to say the least, unconventional in the extreme. To then redefine pi as a result ...

This thread will now be locked, please don't just start another in it's place. This has nothing to do with EU.

Dave Smith.
Forum Administrator.


But Haig thinks Miles Mathis's papers have everything to do with EU and electric comets, which Haig describes as "a package deal". Until, of course, he's called upon to defend the Mathis papers he's chosen to cite:
If you want to chat about his papers that I posted (relevant to this thread, scroll back ) ... that's fine. Otherwise it's just wishful Pi in the sky to be ignored :D
In my first post mentioning Miles Mathis, I noted egregious errors very near the beginning of the paper Mathis cites as his proof near the beginning of the paper you cited. Those errors invalidated all of the Mathis papers you cited, and you have had no answer to that fact.

Googling, I learned that Miles Mathis is a notoriously prolific crackpot. If you Google "SAVE THE ARTISTS FOUNDATION", you will discover that Mathis ends just about every one of his hundreds of crackpot papers with the following appeal:
Miles Mathis said:
If this paper was useful to you in any way, please consider donating a dollar (or more) to the SAVE THE ARTISTS FOUNDATION. This will allow me to continue writing these "unpublishable" things.
That "foundation" appears to be run by one of Miles Mathis's pseudonyms. The appeal quoted above is followed by instructions on how to give Mathis money, complete with link.

Haig, you're the one who brought Miles Mathis into this thread. You're the one who said Mathis "has a finger in ALL those" topics you've been promoting in this thread as a "package deal": electric comets, electric sun, electric universe, plasma cosmology. Since Miles Mathis isn't here, and you have been citing Mathis for support, it's up to you to defend Mathis's crackpottery.
 
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