Near Death and Out of Body Experiences

zengirl said:
Actually those who travel out of body on a regular basis say life on Earth pales in comparison to the amazing dimensions and beings they have seen and met....not superstition....reality...
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Then why come back here?
 
zengirl said:
verified obe<snip>
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It's weird... You'd have thought judging by this that it would be super easy to demonstrate this in a way that would avoid cheating? I mean, you and I both know that at least some tele-evangelists, fortune tellers, mystics etc have been known to cheat, use stooges and make up testimonials so we obviously can't simply take this kind of thing on trust. Why do you think it's so hard to do this when cheating is prevented?
 
Slowvehicle said:
Wups!

Wrong poster.

How does one "experience" the state of "nothingness"?

If it can be experienced, it is not "nothing"ness.
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When I was injured, the next thing I recall is waking up 3 days later. So instead of the nice things people say they experience (love, light and warmth) I didn't experience anything.
 
zengirl said:
verified obe------ "Transformation" by Whitley Strieber---he tells of visiting a friend who lives far away while out of body--------"On the night of March 14, 1988, I was talking to writer
Barbara Clayman when I realized that she could give a certain
man a type of information that he appeared to me to
need very badly. I realized that I had to go to Barbara on
the nonphysical level in order to prepare her for her encounter
with this individual. I told her nothing of my thoughts,
and concluded our conversation lest I even subliminally reveal
my plan to her.
At four-thirty in the morning I found myself at her bedside.
She lives about a thousand miles from New York.-------------I projected my voice into Barbara's ear. I do not hear
myself when I do this. It is a form of thought. My experience
is that it sounds to the listener like a small speaker or
radio in his or her ear. I said, "It's me, Whitley. Barbara,
it's Whitley. " Her eyes flew open. A flush of fear went
through her and she appeared to me to start yelling . This
startled me and I told her rather frantically to quiet down. I
am a leaf in the wind at moments like that, and if her husband
woke up, I would not be able to maintain my presence.
Barbara then became silent and I felt myself give her the
material that she needed about the man, who is involved in
making a policy decision of fundamental importance.-----------------The next evening Barbara called. She left a message that
it was "important. " I did not allow myself even to hope
that she had remembered our meeting.
To my everlasting delight, when I returned her call I
found her full of amazement. She had remembered our encounter
vividly and in detail, right down to the words I had
"said" to her."
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You really do need to look up the definition of "verified".
 
zengirl said:
Not true....humans are more than a brain and a body ...I have been out of body and know it...
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Because you saw physical things with non-physical eyes?

Just asking because you still haven't answered my original question...

Seriously, how do you know it?
 
zengirl said:
verified obe------ "Transformation" by Whitley Strieber <...>
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Ah yes, the famous author of fiction and fantasy, and friend of 'the Greys' and other lucrative fictional characters... :rolleyes:
 
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zengirl said:
....or telling the truth...
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Well - no. There have been no kings of England (or even Wessex, going back as far as Cerdic) called Arthur (There would potentially have been one in the 16th century but he died young). The nearest we can get to the mythical "King Arthur" of Mallory is perhaps an Iron age noble in maybe the 5th or 6th centuries. And even that is uncertain.
 
Most of the people here are no neuroscientists.
And we know that a neurosurgeon (Eben Alexander) experienced an NDE
and all his modern scientific knowledge about the brain told him that his experiences were impossible.
This is convincing, because it's from an expert of the brain. Almost no one on this forum has his expertise.
 
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Maartenn100 said:
Most of the people here are no neuroscientists.
And we know that a neurosurgeon (Eben Alexander) experienced an NDE
and all his modern scientific knowledge about the brain told him that his experiences were impossible.
This is convincing, because it's from an expert of the brain. Almost no one on this forum has his expertise.
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Which makes a lovely story, except...

People who do, in fact have the expertise (and were actually involved in treating Alexander during his crisis), have, in fact, pointed out that many of the things in Alexander's book did not happen as he describes them.

As a minor example, during what he reports as his pivotal cri de coeur, he was, in fact, intubated, and the NGtube would have kept him from anything resembling the clear speech he reports.

Another example is the fact of the discrepancy with the weather he "reported" and the actual almanac weather recorded for those days; and the list continues.

At most, Alexander's book serves as a lesson that embracingwoo! will, inevitably, mean scorning the truth in service of a compelling story.
http://www.today.com/books/proof-heaven-claims-questioned-new-report-6C10512930
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
This is said despite the fact that the best study on "NDEs" the AWARE studies devised by Sam Parnia and carried out by him and later many other institutions, which tested reported NDEs by placing signs or numbers in normally invisible spots in hospitals (like at the top of a wardrobe), and asking people if they reported "NDEs" if they saw the signs and what did they say. There was not one single case reported in any of the studies which showed that any single patient had a verifiable "NDE" (i.e. they could reproduce the content of signs or recall the numbers).

Of course Parnia being a believer and not a proper scientist is desperately trying to spin this conclusive debunking of near death experiences as a confirmation. NDEs are false, they are pseudo-science and they don't happen. Anyone who tells you otherwise has either being taken in by a liar or is lying.
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Daylightstar said:
Useless anecdote.
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They're all useless anecdotes.

I agree, with Gulliver Foyle. The Parnia stuff was massaged to make every attempt to squeeze out an OBE, to no avail, and he is a believer. This stuff is a lot like dowsing, or the Shroud of Turin--once a believer, always a believer, and we are seeing this here in the form of continuous fancy formatting and an almost zombie-like stream of anecdotal so-called evidence. It's a kind of religion or perhaps a compulsion essentially, and the apostles are here to proselytize, not necessarily to convince, and certainly not to learn.

I also agree with those who find it odd in the extreme that the faithful find the need to invoke scientific reality in their surreal world of fantasy.

Since everyone else is telling anecdotes, I choked when swallowing a drink once, and went unconscious. My peripheral vision narrowed, and I saw bright lights and heard a loud buzzing sound just before passing out. As an atheist, I figured these experiences were just my body shutting down and dying in a most unpleasant way, but then again, I don't concern myself with afterlife fantasies.
 
zengirl said:
verified obe------ "Transformation" by Whitley Strieber---he tells of visiting a friend who lives far away while out of body--------"On the night of March 14, 1988, I was talking to writer
Barbara Clayman when I realized that she could give a certain
man a type of information that he appeared to me to
need very badly. I realized that I had to go to Barbara on
the nonphysical level in order to prepare her for her encounter
with this individual. I told her nothing of my thoughts,
and concluded our conversation lest I even subliminally reveal
my plan to her.
At four-thirty in the morning I found myself at her bedside.
She lives about a thousand miles from New York.-------------I projected my voice into Barbara's ear. I do not hear
myself when I do this. It is a form of thought. My experience
is that it sounds to the listener like a small speaker or
radio in his or her ear. I said, "It's me, Whitley. Barbara,
it's Whitley. " Her eyes flew open. A flush of fear went
through her and she appeared to me to start yelling . This
startled me and I told her rather frantically to quiet down. I
am a leaf in the wind at moments like that, and if her husband
woke up, I would not be able to maintain my presence.
Barbara then became silent and I felt myself give her the
material that she needed about the man, who is involved in
making a policy decision of fundamental importance.-----------------The next evening Barbara called. She left a message that
it was "important. " I did not allow myself even to hope
that she had remembered our meeting.
To my everlasting delight, when I returned her call I
found her full of amazement. She had remembered our encounter
vividly and in detail, right down to the words I had
"said" to her."
Click to expand...


ETA: Whoooooops! I thought I was at the end of the thread. It seems I've been Ninja4ed.


Verified by whom? Whitley Striebr? You do know who Strieber is, don't you? The guy who writes horror stories and who's been in contact with ET and is a self-described ufologist? This is like using Edgar Cayce as the verification of Bridey Murphy. There's a category we need for such "evidence". It should be over there in the PMSU section (People Making **** Up). And it falls on gullible eyes and ears, and we get to have you entertain us with delusional nonsense.

Oh, and could you channel Strunk and/or White? Even over here at TGR (The Grammar Resistance), your posts are painful to read/parse.
 
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