Michael Brown shooting II

[tsig]

Another possible/additional scenario is that for the second time that day, Michael Brown incorrectly expected Dorian Johnson to assist him in a criminal endeavor and ended up being left hanging by him instead.

Johnson was near by, and Brown had drawn all of Wilson's attention (or nearly all of it) when Brown turned to face Wilson again, he may have hoped/assumed that Johnson would come at Wilson from the side as he charged forward.

Ultimately though, we cannot suddenly be surprised by irrational, reckless behavior out of someone who had already engaged in multiple documented instances of it. It's mighty reckless to rob a store unmasked in broad daylight with no weapon and numerous eyewitnesses, in a neighborhood people know your face, with security cameras around. Brown can only have expected to get away with that if he felt the community completely supported criminality (he's since been proven disturbingly close to the truth there, but clearly not 100% on the mark) and if he had some hunch that the store owner would do exactly what he did do: refuse to report it in order to stay on the lawless community's good side, relatively speaking.

But this is a person who had already behaved super recklessly and put himself at risk of a serious felony conviction for robbery over $50 worth of cheap cigars... and then (in all versions) engaged in some sort of physical altercation with a police officer, and few things are more reckless than that. Both of these events had happened very close in time to the final charge at the cop.

Michael Brown was:
High
Stupid
Entitled
Violent
A bully
A thug
A criminal
A detriment to society

A human being.

 

[Cylinder]

Why did Wilson make the decision to confront two robbery suspects alone when they didn't seem to be making an effort to run?

Vol. V; p. 232:

My main goal was to keep eyes on him and just to keep him contained until I had people coming there. I knew I had already called for backup and I knew they were already in the area for the stealing that was originally reported. So I thought if I could buy 30 seconds of time, that was my original goal when I tried to get him to come to the car. If I could buy 30 seconds of time, someone else will be here, we can make the arrest, nothing happens, we are all good. And it didn't happen that way.

So when he ran, you know, just stay with him, someone is going to be here, you know, we'll get him.​

 

[WildCat]

I am amazed at your response here. We don't pay police to play fantasy versions of John Wayne. Wilson's job was not to put himself in danger when another alternative was available. <red herring deleted>

We always ask our police officers to put themselves in danger, they put themselves in danger every time they go on duty. Nor is there an alternative that doesn't also require putting themselves in danger, and I stand by my statement that under your proposed rules we would very shortly have a situation where even the most minor arrest would have to involve a SWAT team.

 

[eeyore1954]

We always ask our police officers to put themselves in danger, they put themselves in danger every time they go on duty. Nor is there an alternative that doesn't also require putting themselves in danger, and I stand by my statement that under your proposed rules we would very shortly have a situation where even the most minor arrest would have to involve a SWAT team.

And there was no way of him knowing this was going to become anything other than a minor arrest. In fact it highly probable he assumed backup would be there before he got to the point of making an arrest. Did he call them over to arrest them or was it just ostensibly to talk to them?

 

[Cervelo]

Sometimes, the sidewalks are just poorly maintained, and thus unsuitable for walking. That was often the case where I grew up, which is why we would walk in the streets.

I'll freely grant that the sidewalk that Brown was near wasn't as bad as some of the sidewalks grew up around, though...

Your serious!?! Okey-Dokey!

 

[eeyore1954]

Vol. V; p. 232:

My main goal was to keep eyes on him and just to keep him contained until I had people coming there. I knew I had already called for backup and I knew they were already in the area for the stealing that was originally reported. So I thought if I could buy 30 seconds of time, that was my original goal when I tried to get him to come to the car. If I could buy 30 seconds of time, someone else will be here, we can make the arrest, nothing happens, we are all good. And it didn't happen that way.

So when he ran, you know, just stay with him, someone is going to be here, you know, we'll get him.​

Sorry I didn't see your post somehow.

 

[Aber]

Here's the video of Michael Brown in the Ferguson Market, does he really look out of shape or does he look big and strong? Note that Dorian Johnson (the one in the black shirt) is two years older than him.

Which may well be true and serves as an explanation of why he ran back towards Officer Wilson....

Ooh he's big and scary...

Allegedly ran back; not all witnesses agree. Running aggressively in loose pants and no shoes is hard to do.

 

[Kaosium]

Ooh he's big and scary...

Allegedly ran back; not all witnesses agree. Running aggressively in loose pants and no shoes is hard to do.

What do witnesses have to do with the physical evidence that shows Michael Brown's blood ~20' east of his final position which was face down headed west?

Or does the physical evidence give us a clue as to which witnesses are the most reliable?

ETA: This Washington Post link gives an excellent map of the scene.

 

[WildCat]

Ooh he's big and scary...

Allegedly ran back; not all witnesses agree. Running aggressively in loose pants and no shoes is hard to do.

The physical evidence also agrees. How do you think Brown's blood ended up 20' further away from where his body was found?

 

[Aber]

What do witnesses have to do with the physical evidence that shows Michael Brown's blood ~20' east of his final position which was face down headed west?

Or does the physical evidence give us a clue as to which witnesses are the most reliable?

ETA: This Washington Post link gives an excellent map of the scene.

Maps don't prove running, they just show Michael Brown turned around. It is very difficult to use the physical evidence to show that he was a threat at the moment he was shot, irrespective of what his behaviour might have been earlier.

 

[Kaosium]

Maps don't prove running, they just show Michael Brown turned around. It is very difficult to use the physical evidence to show that he was a threat at the moment he was shot, irrespective of what his behaviour might have been earlier.

Moving back towards Wilson made him a threat and the witnesses that saw this part say Brown was charging Wilson, which is consistent with Wilson's account, the positions of the casings and the audio of the last ten shots.

 

[KatieG]

He had already been shot. I would have expected to see Michael Brown's all over that area.

 

[marplots]

I've found that a lot of people in this world are simply too smart to fully appreciate just how dumb some people are, and they have a very difficult time understanding the actions of people who are vastly less intelligent than themselves. They self-select a peer group and they avoid stupid people. It's understandable and I did the same, and still do it.

In recent years though I had a particular career trajectory I won't waste keystrokes going into, but it was almost the perfect thing to enlighten me about just how stupid the vast bulk of our species is.

Stupidity is a humorous, abstract concept for many intelligent people. They have a caricature of it in their minds which isn't remotely realistic. I think they envision someone who somehow has the same raw intellectual power as themselves, which they attribute to the entire species, but who is somehow self-limiting its expression or has just allowed it to get bogged down with bad ideas or something.

Stupidity is very real, and there are people who are so intellectually limited as to truly terrify the intelligent if they actually come to grasp the truth of this, and just how unmovable it is.

I don't want to comment on whether this is true or false, but to mention the consequences of this belief.

Whenever I attribute characteristics like stupidity, or violent, or whatever to a person (or class of people), I'm also making the claim that this is an enduring and inherent part of their nature. This conclusion then gives me permission to act toward that person on the very narrow basis of the characteristic ascribed. I judge their actions in light of the attribute, and I treat them one way rather than another because of it.

In short, it's a bias. Whether based in truth or not, the bias becomes an easy answer to the difficulties inherent in human relations. Is this a toddler? Well, I'll treat this person as a toddler - part parasite, part slave. Is this person stupid? Well, I'll take on the role of teacher and authority to guide them. Are cops vicious, dictator-wannabes, too quick to enforce their power over common folk? Well, I'll interpret things in light of this characteristic.

Be wary of easy answers when it comes to human beings. Be wary of bias when it clears away confusion and outputs a tidy answer. Be skeptical when you hear the siren song of "makes sense to me."

There's a psychological phenomenon where we ascribe blame easily to others, but forgive ourselves for similar mistakes. It's thought to spring from the deeper knowledge we have of our own internal dialogue and motivations - the very things we cannot see directly in others. It's just simpler to assume they act in simple, marionette-like ways instead of granting them the nuances we know our own actions embody.

 

[marplots]

All it takes to get another take on Brown's charge is that it's a viable option from a certain point of view.

"This cop shot me already. He's chasing me and will probably shoot me again. I can't run faster than bullets. I'm not armed..."

Couple that with a belief that the police are out to get you (generally because of your status, not specifically because of the robbery) and I might take a shot at attacking instead of running.

We could as easily ascribe courage to Brown's actions as stupidity or being a violent psycho. I have no way to distinguish between them.

 

[NoahFence]

All it takes to get another take on Brown's charge is that it's a viable option from a certain point of view.

"This cop shot me already. He's chasing me and will probably shoot me again. I can't run faster than bullets. I'm not armed..."

Couple that with a belief that the police are out to get you (generally because of your status, not specifically because of the robbery) and I might take a shot at attacking instead of running.

We could as easily ascribe courage to Brown's actions as stupidity or being a violent psycho. I have no way to distinguish between them.

That he was a violent psycho was already established before he even laid eyes on Wilson.

 

[marplots]

That he was a violent psycho was already established before he even laid eyes on Wilson.

Yeah, and by the same flawed method I've already described. If it were really an honest analysis, couldn't we pick out some incident when Brown was kind or honorable and conclude, by the same simplistic method, that he was a saint?

"Violent psycho" ought to be a medical diagnosis, not a way for us to think we've arrived at an explanation for subsequent behavior.

 

[Cylinder]

Crime Scene Legend

The baseline measurements were taken from a line running east-to-west on the north side of Canfield -- with 0-0 starting at Copper Creek Drive.

# | DESCRIPTION | WEST (ft-in) | SOUTH (ft-in)
1|Black/Yellow Bracelet |208-2|14-2 in
2|Red Baseball Cap|208-2|16|3
3|.40 cal Federal Casing|201-1|17-1
4|.40 cal Federal Casing|210-0|29-2
5|Black Bead Bracelet|201-3|8-3
6|White Nike Sandal (Left)|179-7|25-7
7|White Nike Sandal (Right)|136-0|14-9
8|Red Stain Driver Front Door|-|-
9|Red Stain Driver Rear Door|-|-
10|.40 cal Federal Casing|56-0|25-8
11|.40 cal Federal Casing|50-4|33-9
12|.40 cal Federal Casing|50-1|34-1
13|.40 cal Federal Casing|47-4|24
14|.40 cal Federal Casing|43-0|26-4
15|.40 cal Federal Casing|42-0|23|11
16|.40 cal Federal Casing|36-10|16-9
17|Apparent Projectile|45-3|10-10
18|.40 cal Federal Casing|33-4|14-6
19|Blood Stain in Roadway|31-0|11-9
20|Blood Stain in Roadway|26-7|11-6
21|.40 cal Federal Casing|36-10|31-10
22|.40 cal Federal Casing|47-4|31-3
--|Driver-Front Tire Center|206-3|12-9
--|Pass-Front Tire Center|203-8|6-6
--|Driver-Rear Tire Center|197-3|16-5
--|Pass-Rear Tire Center|194-9|10-4
--|Brown Left Foot|48-2|15-6
--|Brown Right Foot|48-2|13-6
--|Brown Left Hand|51-4|15-3
--|Brown Right Hand|52-11|12-3
--|Brown Head|53-6|15-9

 

[NoahFence]

Yeah, and by the same flawed method I've already described. If it were really an honest analysis, couldn't we pick out some incident when Brown was kind or honorable and conclude, by the same simplistic method, that he was a saint?

"Violent psycho" ought to be a medical diagnosis, not a way for us to think we've arrived at an explanation for subsequent behavior.

Feel free.

 

[Nihilianth]

you mean something like this?

Why couldn't you have picked something more realistic? Like Lesean McCoy of the Eagles breaking free from the Cowboys instead?

 

[marplots]

Feel free.

Remember when he made that macaroni art thing and momma hung it on the fridge and he gave her a big hug and said, "I lurve you, momma." It was so cute, how he mispronounce "love" like that. Later, he shared his gummy bears with his sister, which was nice.

I suppose I'll have to dredge up some video evidence to confirm that at least once in his life, Michael Brown acted with humanity and kindness. I'll have to check my back-up hard drive though.

Oh wait. I don't really need video evidence do I? Just trust my testimony. Pretend I'm a cop.