The Electric Comet theory

[dasmiller]

So my point with the whole MATH thing ApolloGnomon, you did not have to do one single sum to understand the theory, did you?

I'm going to hazard a guess that ApolloGnomon does not need to do any calculations to understand the concept of current generation in the Jovian system caused by satellites sweeping through Jupiter's magnetic field, but he/she would need to do some math to determine the significance of that current. For example, would that cause Io's orbit to rapidly decay? Would it cause significant heating of Jupiter's atmosphere? I'm going to guess that ApolloGnomon would have to do a few quick (or not-so-quick) calculations before offering up an opinion on such questions.

The EU crowd seems to prefer to simply avoid such questions, or say that plasma physics is simply too complicated to make any such determinations.

 

[Sol88]

"Symbols of an Alien Sky", huh? According to this page:



"The genius of Immanuel Velikovsky".

...

*snerk*

Aaaahahahahahaha!!!

Why is Immanuel Velikovsky so laughed at, Matthew Cline?

 

[Sol88]

I'm going to hazard a guess that ApolloGnomon does not need to do any calculations to understand the concept of current generation in the Jovian system caused by satellites sweeping through Jupiter's magnetic field, but he/she would need to do some math to determine the significance of that current. For example, would that cause Io's orbit to rapidly decay? Would it cause significant heating of Jupiter's atmosphere? I'm going to guess that ApolloGnomon would have to do a few quick (or not-so-quick) calculations before offering up an opinion on such questions.

The EU crowd seems to prefer to simply avoid such questions, or say that plasma physics is simply too complicated to make any such determinations.

Seems you'd be right, it does do stuff!

The force generated by the electrodynamic interaction is thought to accelerate lo in its orbital motion and slow the rotation of the Jovian ionosphere.

 

[Matthew Cline]

Why is Immanuel Velikovsky so laughed at, Matthew Cline?

This is from memory of having read Worlds in Collision over a decade ago:

• Within recorded human history the planet Venus was ejected from Jupiter. The whole experience was so traumatic to the humans at the time that they suppressed conscious memory of it, but their subconscious memory of the event caused them to record it legends/myths.
• Venus passed by Earth once, stopping the Earth's rotation, then passed it again, starting the rotation up again.
• On at least one of the passes the two planets were so close together that material spontaneously passed from the atmosphere of Venus to that of Earth.
• After careening around the solar system on a highly eccentric orbit Venus settled down into its current orbit.
• At the time that it was careening around Venus was so hot that it was glowing in the visible spectrum, and thousands of years later it still hasn't completely cooled down. That's why the atmosphere of Venus is so hot, rather than the atmosphere trapping heat from the sun.

If you want to discuss why these things are absurd then we should probably start a separate thread.

 

[Belz...]

So, I'm still surprised with the maths thing!

How does your maths explain Comet Siding Springs interaction with Mars?

I recommend taking an introductory course in astrophysics. Then go through university. Takes a few years, but if you're having trouble calculating volts, you're not going to get far with the complex stuff.

 

[Belz...]

No wonder the Mainstream are more happy to tell the Comets are dirtysnowballs story and not the one our ancestors are trying tell us.

Pretty safe with the mainstream story.

Only in the sense that it works. It isn't safe in the sense that new discoveries constantly force it to adapt, unlike EU, where you just say "see, it's electric" and stop there.

Oh...and I see when faced with some real world MATHS, all the maths proponents run away and hide

I'm sorry no one is at your beck and call, but some of us have to sleep.

 

[Andy_Ross]

[*]Venus passed by Earth once, stopping the Earth's rotation, then passed it again, starting the rotation up again.
[*]On at least one of the passes the two planets were so close together that material spontaneously passed from the atmosphere of Venus to that of Earth..

This explains biblical accounts of the sun stopping in the sky and Manna from Heaven apparently.

 

[tusenfem]

HANNES ALFVÉN Plasma physics, space research and the origin of the solar system Nobel Lecture, December 11, 1970 ... PDF HERE

I am so glad that you think that mainstream plasma physics has made no advances whatsoever since this lecture from 1970!!!

 

[Sol88]

I recommend taking an introductory course in astrophysics. Then go through university. Takes a few years, but if you're having trouble calculating volts, you're not going to get far with the complex stuff.

The real complex stuff, like plasma physics or black wholes/dark matter type physics?

Don't think I'd honestly be unble to do even the simplest calculations of either true!

 

[Sol88]

I am so glad that you think that mainstream plasma physics has made no advances whatsoever since this lecture from 1970!!!

Tusenfem, you are a plasma physicist, yeah?

you have seen some of the data yeah?

anything, in your knowledgable opinion surprising in the data?

I mean as Jean Tate said, I am a "Citizen Scientist" but the only cutting edge data I have access to is pictures, like the latest from ...

http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/files/2014/11/navcam_mosaic_201114.jpg

Edited by LashL: 

Changed hotlinked image to regular link. Please see Rule 5.

Gas and dust stream from Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko in this mosaic from the Rosetta spacecraft taken Nov. 20, 2014. Credit: ESA/Rosetta/NAVCAM – CC BY-SA IGO 3.0

Wow!! could you imagine the images from Osiris!

Anyhooo, i've seen a lot of other images from 67P but none of where the "jets" seem to eminate from?

Except...from all over the surface!

 

[Sol88]

it's like the jets are not visible when viewed face on but only when rotaing over the limb???

So what's the source, i wonder?

 

[Sol88]

Only in the sense that it works. It isn't safe in the sense that new discoveries constantly force it to adapt, unlike EU, where you just say "see, it's electric" and stop there.



I'm sorry no one is at your beck and call, but some of us have to sleep.

Yeah family, timezones, work and life all compete for your finite amount of time

The maths is there, the concept is there, so why so stubborn on the idea of the "Electric Comet"?

Happens elsewhere, this electric stuff.

 

[tusenfem]

Oh...and I see when faced with some real world MATHS, all the maths proponents run away and hide

So if Io generates 2 Trillion Watts but orbiting inside Jupiter magnetosphere then how much would our moon generate when inside our magnetosphere?

Just use E = - v × B ???

You really have to have chewed it all down for you, don't you. I guess your mother still cuts your meat for you at dinner.

The Jovian magnetic field at Io is about 2000 nT, the velocity of magnetoplasma is 55 km/s and Io's radius is about 1800 km.
That will give you a potential drop over Io of ~400.000 Volts.

At the location of the Moon, the magnetotail field is 6 nT, the velocity of the Moon in its orbit is about 1000 km/s and the radius of the Moon is 1700 km. That will give you a potential drop over the Moon of ~10.000 Volts.

Naturally, because of Io's volcanic activity, it has a very well developed ionosphere, which means that the voltage can drive currents through the ionosphere and thereby along the magnetic field lines towards Jupiter's ionosphere and create an auroral footpoint.

The Moon does not have a very well developed ionosphere, and thus currents cannot flow freely, and this whole dynamo working does not create much effect.

 

[Belz...]

The real complex stuff, like plasma physics or black wholes/dark matter type physics?

Don't think I'd honestly be unble to do even the simplest calculations of either true!

So be honest about this: if you don't quite grasp the ideas and theories, how can you say they are wrong ?

 

[Belz...]

Happens elsewhere, this electric stuff.

So does gravity and nuclear fusion, and yet somehow you don't think those are involved.

 

[Sol88]

You really have to have chewed it all down for you, don't you. I guess your mother still cuts your meat for you at dinner.

The Jovian magnetic field at Io is about 2000 nT, the velocity of magnetoplasma is 55 km/s and Io's radius is about 1800 km.
That will give you a potential drop over Io of ~400.000 Volts.

At the location of the Moon, the magnetotail field is 6 nT, the velocity of the Moon in its orbit is about 1000 km/s and the radius of the Moon is 1700 km. That will give you a potential drop over the Moon of ~10.000 Volts.

Naturally, because of Io's volcanic activity, it has a very well developed ionosphere, which means that the voltage can drive currents through the ionosphere and thereby along the magnetic field lines towards Jupiter's ionosphere and create an auroral footpoint.

The Moon does not have a very well developed ionosphere, and thus currents cannot flow freely, and this whole dynamo working does not create much effect.

Double the radius, double the voltage?

 

[JeanTate]

Good Turkey Day, Sol88,

Mainstream or indeed yourself Belz have maths coming out of your wazoo and your theories are still incorrect! yay maths

your maths told you comets are dirtysnowballs, the data says otherwise, but , your maths is 100% correct i.e. 1+1=2

What maths would you be after to sway you the EC way?

Wal and his pals seem to be even more scared of math(s) than you!

But not to worry, since you can do "1+1=2", why not help Wal et al. out? With a BOTE calculation that you, Sol88, can do!

Here's how.

According to ol' Wal and his mates, comets are "hot, dry, and rocky". Well, you now know the "hot" part is a porky pie, but what about the "dry" part?

The electric comet idea says all the water (H₂O, you know that, right?) we see in comets' tails etc comes from EDM, from which H in the solar wind combines with O from the rocks (I think I read that in one of the links Haig kindly posted).

So, if you know how much H is in the solar wind (we can work on that in a bit), you - Sol88 - can work out - BOTE style - how much H₂O a comet could produce, tops, by assuming that all the H gets turned into H₂O.

With me so far?

Are you up for this? It might look a bit challenging right now - from what you've written in a bazillion posts in this thread, I reckon you've never done a BOTE calculation in your life! - but I think it'll turn out easier than you fear (you see, despite all your bluster, I figure you're actually a pretty smart guy). And anyway, there are lots of other members to help you out, even me.

So, please Sol88, reply to this post, saying that you'll at least give it a try. And if so, how do you think that you - Sol88 - could start this BOTE calculation (other than by finding out how much H is in the solar wind)?

 

[Ziggurat]

Maybe 1) he thinks that it's impossible to tell a priori whether or not a simplification will work for or against a theory, and 2) that this is so obvious that he doesn't need to spell it out.

It's possible that he thinks this, but given that it's wrong, that doesn't really help.

 

[Sol88]

So does gravity and nuclear fusion, and yet somehow you don't think those are involved.

Tested Graviry personally...fractured my L2

and anything nuclear scares the bejesus outa me, obviously it's real though. Bugger to control once it turns to plasma, though

 

[Sol88]

Good Turkey Day, Sol88,

Wal and his pals seem to be even more scared of math(s) than you!

But not to worry, since you can do "1+1=2", why not help Wal et al. out? With a BOTE calculation that you, Sol88, can do!

Here's how.

According to ol' Wal and his mates, comets are "hot, dry, and rocky". Well, you now know the "hot" part is a porky pie, but what about the "dry" part?

The electric comet idea says all the water (H₂O, you know that, right?) we see in comets' tails etc comes from EDM, from which H in the solar wind combines with O from the rocks (I think I read that in one of the links Haig kindly posted).

So, if you know how much H is in the solar wind (we can work on that in a bit), you - Sol88 - can work out - BOTE style - how much H₂O a comet could produce, tops, by assuming that all the H gets turned into H₂O.

With me so far?

Are you up for this? It might look a bit challenging right now - from what you've written in a bazillion posts in this thread, I reckon you've never done a BOTE calculation in your life! - but I think it'll turn out easier than you fear (you see, despite all your bluster, I figure you're actually a pretty smart guy). And anyway, there are lots of other members to help you out, even me.

So, please Sol88, reply to this post, saying that you'll at least give it a try. And if so, how do you think that you - Sol88 - could start this BOTE calculation (other than by finding out how much H is in the solar wind)?

What about just OH?

"we" dont see water, H2O...we see OH, right?

What about the CO2 & CO production?

I mean the moons, our moon, has got a bit as well The elements sodium (Na) and potassium (K) have been detected in the moon's atmosphere using Earth-based spectroscopic methods, whereas the isotopes radon-222 and polonium-210 have been inferred from data obtained by the Lunar Prospector alpha particle spectrometer.[4] Argon-40, helium-4, oxygen and/or methane (CH4), nitrogen gas (N2) and/or carbon monoxide (CO), and carbon dioxide (CO2) were detected by in-situ detectors placed by the Apollo astronauts.[5] Mmmmm....