Michael Brown shooting II

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LTC8K6 said:
I think it was well done, and not done in a way to suggest there should be no charge.
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Also sounds like it wasn't done in a way to suggest that there should be a charge. Because they didn't think that there should have been.

LTC8K6 said:
If you read the GJ docs, I think you will find that it actually did not make an indictment less likely.
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I actually have been reading some. Witness 10, for example, corroborated Wilson's version of events to such a degree that I'm pretty sure that's what happened and that these other people are lying. A no bill is certainly less likely with that person's testimony.
 
WildCat said:
Oprah, Al Sharpton, Benjamin Crump, Facebook, Socialist Workers International, and Twitter of course.
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You forgot the Gawker websites. They know the *real* facts, like the MD diagnosed contusion on Wilson's face being adult acne. And even if it were a "bruise", it was self-inflicted, so it doesn't matter anyway, so says Gawker.
 
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davefoc said:
I don't know if I count as a Brown supporter. I think Wilson was probably guilty of bad police procedure but I suspected he may not have been guilty of a crime and I suspected that there wouldn't be enough evidence for a grand jury to indict him even if he was guilty of a crime.

Nothing I've read has changed my opinion about any of that. Should it?

I suspect Wilson is lying about his attempts at politeness with Brown and Johnson when he first encounters them based on his misrepresentations of his interaction with Arman shown in the video linked to above. But I don't think any uncorroborated thing that Johnson says about the interaction has any credibility either. He was engaged in criminal activity near the time of the interaction and that almost completely discounts his credibility in my opinion.

I have been disappointed at the celebration in this thread. A young man was killed and his family was devastated. That seems like a sad enough situation that it might have dimmed the enthusiasm for cartoons and jokes. There's a good chance that more considered actions by Wilson would not have led to a situation where he felt it necessary to shoot Brown. US policemen kill a lot of people these days and video of the shooting of the mentally off individual linked to earlier in this thread suggests to me that something is wrong about the training of US policemen with regard to the use of deadly force.

The rioting in Ferguson will probably be devastating for citizens for years to come. Communities that experience these kind of riots continue to suffer the consequences for generations. The community needed to take a strong stand against lawlessness and support efforts to prevent the looting and burning. The actions are not in protest of excessive police force they are an insult to the family of Brown and his supporters. Where was the so called black leadership when courage was required? Their lack of action provides further evidence that they are cowardly exploiters.
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Well put. I'd add that the people do have other legitimate complaints with the PD and local government, and hopefully they'll actually start voting.

Well, that and that I'm especially open to counter-evidence to that last bit. I have no idea where the leadership was, apart for some clergy who did try to stem violence and looting by standing in front of the (already looted but not yet burned) beauty salon. If it turns out there isn't evidence of them doing anything besides some light before and after condemnation...then new leadership is advised.
 
davefoc said:
I have been disappointed at the celebration in this thread. A young man was killed and his family was devastated. That seems like a sad enough situation that it might have dimmed the enthusiasm for cartoons and jokes.
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Me, too. No, wait. Not disappointed. What's the word?

Disgusted.

This thread has demonstrated the most sociopathic display of glee at death and destruction I've ever witnessed on this board. I've just about had my fill.

Skeptical Greg said:
Yes, but you are asking for an account of what actually happened..

Where would you expect to find a more comprehensive and factual account outside of the evidence presented to the grand Jury?

Or, is your professed " .... interest in what actually happened. ", just rhetorical wishful thinking?
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The evidence presented to the grand jury is exactly what I have been looking at. However, it is important to remember that the grand jury was not asked to determine what actually happened. They were asked to determine if a crime could be established based on certain definitions under the law. In the end, those two things may be the same thing, but it is incorrect to assume that they are identical. It is also a logical fallacy to look to the grand jury as an applicable authority on a question they have no expertise in and weren't specifically pursuing.
 
Upchurch said:
The evidence presented to the grand jury is exactly what I have been looking at. However, it is important to remember that the grand jury was not asked to determine what actually happened. They were asked to determine if a crime could be established based on certain definitions under the law. In the end, those two things may be the same thing, but it is incorrect to assume that they are identical. It is also a logical fallacy to look to the grand jury as an applicable authority on a question they have no expertise in and weren't specifically pursuing.
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Are you not understanding that you can look and decide yourself?

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson-project/evidence.html
 
I held the belief that Wilson probably did not violate protocol when he shot Michael Brown to death, and I enjoy gallows humor, but I'll agree with others saying the comments in this thread last night were "disappointing" to "disgusting." Maybe it's because I'm afraid of groups of people, so an off-hand comment about the Little Caesar's "peacefully" burning down can be hilarious, but all that mayhem and destruction was met here with something approaching revelry.
 
davefoc said:
I have been disappointed at the celebration in this thread. A young man was killed and his family was devastated. That seems like a sad enough situation that it might have dimmed the enthusiasm for cartoons and jokes.
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There are people in this thread enjoying the rioting just as much as the people engaging in it, but for different reasons. It confirms a thing they've always believed about certain people, and they're enjoying it immensely.
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
There are people in this thread enjoying the rioting just as much as the people engaging in it, but for different reasons. It confirms a thing they've always believed about certain people, and they're enjoying it immensely.
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Which, in a powerful feedback loop, was confirming certain stereotypes about those certain people.

This is the closest, I feel, that anyone has come to discussing the actual root issue here. It will be promptly ignored and never mentioned again.
 
If they were to call these very same people savages and animals on any other day, they'd be rightfully mocked and/or shunned for such blatant bigotry.

If you're going to call these people animals for their current behavior, you have to be quite comfortable with the idea that they are animals, always; not just different from the rest of us, but inferior. After all, a lion is no less an animal when it's resting in the shade of a tree than when it's tearing flesh from a fresh kill.

Christmas comes early for the bigots, if only because they feel they can publicly and gleefully express their bigotry.

ETA: There's a saying that people are revealed in crisis. I propose that people are also revealed in victory.
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
If they were to call these very same people savages and animals on any other day, they'd be rightfully mocked and/or shunned for such blatant bigotry.

If you're going to call these people animals for their current behavior, you have to be quite comfortable with the idea that they are animals, always; not just different from the rest of us, but inferior. After all, a lion is no less an animal when it's resting in the shade of a tree than when it's tearing flesh from a fresh kill.

Christmas comes early for the bigots, if only because they feel they can publicly and gleefully express their bigotry.
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I wasn't sure if you missed my reply to our previous conversation. I included that hotlink. That's the one where you made a false claim about me having a double standard, asked for links, and then disappeared. Whenever you're ready to pick that back up is fine with me.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
If they were to call these very same people savages and animals on any other day, they'd be rightfully mocked and/or shunned for such blatant bigotry.

If you're going to call these people animals for their current behavior, you have to be quite comfortable with the idea that they are animals, always; not just different from the rest of us, but inferior. After all, a lion is no less an animal when it's resting in the shade of a tree than when it's tearing flesh from a fresh kill.

Christmas comes early for the bigots, if only because they feel they can publicly and gleefully express their bigotry.

ETA: There's a saying that people are revealed in crisis. I propose that people are also revealed in victory.
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There were white people participating in the looting. So anyone referring to them as "animals" hates white people? Are you sure about that?
 
plague311 said:
I wasn't sure if you missed my reply to our previous conversation. I included that hotlink. That's the one where you made a false claim about me having a double standard, asked for links, and then disappeared. Whenever you're ready to pick that back up is fine with me.
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What's there to pick up? I honestly can't argue (too long, anyway) with a man's perception of himself; that's futile.
 
Distracted1 said:
Thanks for reminding me why I am still a Liberal.
I am going to go get a shower now.
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Don't bother I'm skeptical that you'll take the time to learn how to use it, you'd most likley only hurt yourself.....I'll protect you!!!
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Interesting. Did I say anything about skin color?
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No, that's why I'm checking. I thought maybe you were one of those racists who hear the word "thug" and immediately conjure up a mental picture of a black person.

When you said this:

If they were to call these very same people savages and animals on any other day, they'd be rightfully mocked and/or shunned for such blatant bigotry.
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Which "same people" are you referring to?
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
No, that's why I'm checking. I thought maybe you were one of those racists who hear the word "thug" and immediately conjure up a mental picture of a black person.
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Again, interesting. I explicitly use the word "bigotry" and you think "racism". Who were you hoping to call a racist?
 
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