The Electric Comet theory

[Sol88]

Good morning Sol88,



I'm trying to get my head around your "maths" and your love of "the EC way".

Did you see where your mate, Wal, said that 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko is "hot"? I dunno what part of Oz you're from, but it sure looks like a porky-pie to me; I mean, -70C is bloody freezing here in the Big Apple, and truly brass monkeys' weather in Oz, right?

Would Wal telling porky-pies sway you away from the EC way?

How about if the EC says comets are hot, but they'd give brass monkeys brass monkeys (they're that cold), it can't be right can it? I mean, common sense, really.

By the way, I'm a bit sad that you seem to be ignoring me; I've asked you lots of questions, trying to get a civilized dialog going, but you have been giving me the cold shoulder. Why?

Sorry 'ol mate, the threads moving too fast too keep up with everyone.

I know we (EU-ES-EC mob) get hounded too death for the maths and I'm all ways at a loss to the reasoning?? Like Belz... said MATHS is the CART and the HORSE

I'm bloody hopeless at maths but there are a lot a cluey people here and they know how to do their sums good'n prop'a

So as a favour, would you help me make a start on learning this new language? maths I mean.

So here's the question, in just your garden variety English, well Aussie anyway.

I have a conductor moving thru a magnetic field, the power generated is say 5 million amps, how do I work out the Voltage?

 

[Belz...]

You claim that the Mars comet proves your theory, but you can't present any calculations to show that your theory works and that mainstream theory fails, so there's nothing other than faith and dogma to support this delusion.

Faith trumps math. Sol88 said so here.

 

[Belz...]

I'm bloody hopeless at maths

Evidently.

Since you admit to being unable to provide mathematical support for your hypothesis, can you also admit to being not sufficiently knowledgeable about the science on the topic of comets to reach conclusions about which hypothesis is correct ? It seems odd that you are so certain about the EU theory if you don't understand the science or the maths.

 

[Sol88]

Well, I mean with my minimal edumacation I learned to read.

When I read about the Electric Ken Everything, I too was a little flumoxed.

So I did me self some read'n stuff from "The Source", N.A.S.A

So the maths I just don't get, didn't really involve maths in the first place, anywhoo...

e.g

http://ase.tufts.edu/cosmos/view_picture.asp?id=1174

Fig. 9.16 . An electric current of five million amperes flows along Io’s flux tube. It connects Io to the upper atmosphere of Jupiter, like a giant umbilical cord.

http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/personnel/russell/papers/Io_Jovian/

The spacecraft detected intense beams of electrons propagating parallel to the magnetic field and a variety of unexpectedly strong wave phenomena surrounding lo that are associated with lo's production of new ions

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/30oct_ftes/

During the time it takes you to read this article, something will happen high overhead that until recently many scientists didn't believe in

http://www.planetaryexploration.net/jupiter/io/io_plasma_torus.html

As Io circles around Jupiter and through the plasma torus, an enormous electrical current flows between them. Approximately 2 trillion watts of power is generated. The current follows the magnetic field lines to Jupiter's surface where it creates lightning in the upper atmosphere

Sooo....ummm what MATH?????

 

[Ziggurat]

I know we (EU-ES-EC mob) get hounded too death for the maths and I'm all ways at a loss to the reasoning??

Really, Sol88? Because it's actually pretty damn simple: math is how you check whether or not your theory is accurate. If you don't do the math (or at least have someone do it for you), there's simply no way to tell if you're just fooling yourself. And as Feynman said, you are the easiest person to fool.

I have a conductor moving thru a magnetic field, the power generated is say 5 million amps, how do I work out the Voltage?

The first thing you do is get the dimensions involved straight in your head. Power is energy per unit time (common unit is the Watt). Current is charge per unit time (common unit is the Amp). You're calling a current "power". This is obviously wrong.

Second, if a conductor moves through a magnetic field, then you calculate the induced voltage by calculating how fast the magnetic flux through the conductor changes. The mathematical details are contained in Faraday's law of induction.

 

[Sol88]

Lets give Wiki a crack..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_transfer_event

A flux transfer event (FTE) occurs when a magnetic portal opens in the Earth's magnetosphere through which high-energy particles flow from the Sun

nope still no MATHS but blow me over with a feather, I still understant what their gett'n at

Shall we go on Belz..., Jean Tate, Tusenfem, Reality Check??? Fair crak of the whip

 

[Sol88]

Yeah Yeah Yeah, can hear you already... that's Io, a moon not a comet!!!

So whats the difference??

I mean sorta simlar on the Moon..

Electrically charged lunar dust near shadowed craters can get lofted above the surface and jump over the shadowed region, bouncing back and forth between sunlit areas on opposite sides, according to new calculations by NASA scientists.

Seems you mob got one foot on the edge but just wont make the leap!

 

[Sol88]

So the buggers over on that crank web site The Thunderbolts Project

got me hook, line and sinker...

Not happy Jan

 

[Belz...]

Well, I mean with my minimal edumacation I learned to read.

Your minimal education won't be enough to grasp advanced concepts.

Sooo....ummm what MATH?????

What ?

Shall we go on Belz...,

Go on from what ? You have not presented anything of substance yet.

Yeah Yeah Yeah, can hear you already... that's Io, a moon not a comet!!!

So whats the difference??

I mean sorta simlar on the Moon..

The EU proponent in a nutshell, I guess: math is hard and boring, but this thing is kinda like that one and I know one's electric, so there.

 

[tusenfem]

Sorry 'ol mate, the threads moving too fast too keep up with everyone.

Ahhhh, feeling sad now

I know we (EU-ES-EC mob) get hounded too death for the maths and I'm all ways at a loss to the reasoning?? Like Belz... said MATHS is the CART and the HORSE

Even the so-called "experts" don't deliver anything, guess the EU/ES/EC math has not been invented yet.

I'm bloody hopeless at maths ...

whoda thunk!!

... but there are a lot a cluey people here and they know how to do their sums good'n prop'a

but you don't believe them, or if you have some you believe you do not present their work

So as a favour, would you help me make a start on learning this new language? maths I mean.

So here's the question, in just your garden variety English, well Aussie anyway.

I have a conductor moving thru a magnetic field, the power generated is say 5 million amps, how do I work out the Voltage?

First of all the "power generated" would not be 5 million amps. Ampères is a unit of current, if you want power you would have Joules per second or Watts. And then you have your question wrong because you would get the current in amps from the voltage that you calculate.

If you have a conductor moving in a magnetic field (am I really going to do this?) depending on how it moves generates an electric field which is given by E = - v × B, which would be in units of Volts-per-metre. If you know the length L of the conductor you can get the total voltage drop over the conductor with V = |E| L Volts and if you then know the resistance R of the conductor you can calculate a possible current that could flow, if there would be a closed circuit, through I = V / R.

 

[tusenfem]

Well, I mean with my minimal edumacation I learned to read.

When I read about the Electric Ken Everything, I too was a little flumoxed.

So I did me self some read'n stuff from "The Source", N.A.S.A

So the maths I just don't get, didn't really involve maths in the first place, anywhoo...

e.g

http://ase.tufts.edu/cosmos/view_picture.asp?id=1174

http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/personnel/russell/papers/Io_Jovian/

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/30oct_ftes/

http://www.planetaryexploration.net/jupiter/io/io_plasma_torus.html

Sooo....ummm what MATH?????

Honeybuns, these are not scientific papers ...
These are press releases and short summaries of actual papers with enough math in there to quench your thirst for learning.

 

[tusenfem]

Lets give Wiki a crack..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_transfer_event

nope still no MATHS but blow me over with a feather, I still understant what their gett'n at

Sweetypie, wiki is not a scientific paper, read the real papers in actual scientific journals. Want me to send you some?

 

[Sol88]

Sweetypie, wiki is not a scientific paper, read the real papers in actual scientific journals. Want me to send you some?

So it's all crapola?

Now I really confused...who do I believe?

Yeah that'd be sweet, just easy on the numbers eh...any in just plain, layman, basicaly this is how it goes type papers would be more betterer.

 

[Belz...]

And then you have your question wrong because you would get the current in amps from the voltage that you calculate.

Only if you actually care about maths ! Pshaw !

 

[Sol88]

Ummm...How many volts with those two figures supplied by NASA?

 

[Ziggurat]

So it's all crap?

Now I really confused...who do I believe?

Yeah that be sweet, just easy on the numbers eh..

These are summaries of content developed in scientific papers. Most of the public isn't interested in the math. For those that are, they can consult the scientific papers.

But there are no scientific papers for the EU crowd. All they have are the math-free pages with the pretty pictures. There's nothing behind it, though. It's just a facade, nothing more.

The additional irony, of course, is that your links actually disprove a central tenet of the EU folks: mainstream scientists don't ignore plasmas or electromagnetic effects in space.

 

[Sol88]

2,000,000,000,000,000,000 watts * 5,000,000,000 Amps = 1e+28 Volts, is that a lot?

I mean I just bung the numbers in google and it gives me 1e+28 sounds awfull bigish?

what would I be doing wrong? Is the maths correct or have a made a balls up?

 

[Belz...]

Ummm...How many volts with those two figures supplied by NASA?

Did you look up actual research papers, or just easy abstracts ?

 

[Belz...]

2,000,000,000,000,000,000 watts * 5,000,000,000 Amps = 1e+28 Volts, is that a lot?

It would be if this is how you calculated volts. V = w/a, not *.

 

[Sol88]

It would be if this is how you calculated volts. V = w/a, not *.

See you're one of them cluey mob, 400000000 v sounds way better.

I see how this maths thing is usefulll

2,000,000,000,000,000,000 watts / 5,000,000,000 amps = 400,000,000 volts?

Yeah?