Merged The Disturbences in Ferguson Missouri...

[jimbob]

OK, so you don't think that you should have heard of Ferguson before the riots. Do you agree that whether or not there was a *reputation* for racism, there is plenty of evidence that the department has been treating blacks differently to whites?

Read the part that you quoted, I blatantly stated it in my post.

Apologies for my poor reading comprehension.

Is there any reason why you might have heard of its reputation? I would have thought that a small town several states away would need to have done something really quite special for it to have reached your notice - unless you were looking for that beforehand.

 

[plague311]

Apologies for my poor reading comprehension.

Is there any reason why you might have heard of its reputation? I would have thought that a small town several states away would need to have done something really quite special for it to have reached your notice - unless you were looking for that beforehand.

Ferguson is a city in St. Louis County, Missouri, United States.[1] It is part of the Greater St. Louis metropolitan area.

While it's classified as a city, it's part of St. Louis. I hear about racism in big cities and their suburbs all the time. NYC, Chicago, Detroit, etc.

So yes, I expect I would have heard about it previously. Especially with all of the statistics that have come out en mass since the incident.

 

[Unabogie]

While it's classified as a city, it's part of St. Louis. I hear about racism in big cities and their suburbs all the time. NYC, Chicago, Detroit, etc.

So yes, I expect I would have heard about it previously. Especially with all of the statistics that have come out en mass since the incident.

As I noted in that interactive map, the unfortunate truth is that those kinds of statistics are more the norm than the exception. So it doesn't seem that unusual that the police relations in Jennings (where they disbanded the whole force and started over from scratch) or Ferguson would not make national news. It's usually only when someone is killed in sketchy circumstances that the media takes notice, just as they did here in Ferguson. There's no real news hook in reporting that "Town X hands out way too many tickets to black motorists and gives them harsher sentences for similar infractions". If it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead.

 

[plague311]

At the moment I am unsure as to the justification - it certainly isn't clear cut to me. It strikes me as a situation that in the UK would have been resolved without shooting, and without significant risk to the officer.

Given that the UK police force are not equipped with guns you might be right. Although, it could have been that without a gun Brown would have beat Wilson's, who is much smaller, ass into the ground like it was no big deal. We don't know.

 

[jimbob]

Given that the UK police force are not equipped with guns you might be right. Although, it could have been that without a gun Brown would have beat Wilson's, who is much smaller, ass into the ground like it was no big deal. We don't know.

UK police officers do have to deal with large, violent people quite routinely, so the protocols are possible. Knives are not unknown.

 

[plague311]

UK police officers do have to deal with large, violent people quite routinely, so the protocols are possible. Knives are not unknown.

My overall point was that we can throw any number of hypothetical situations at this and possibly come up with different results. Since none of them are what happened, it's all just conjecture.

 

[jimbob]

That's why I said I am undecided and that it isn't clear cut. With the level of training that I have (none) I would probably have had to do what Wilson did. However UK police do face similar situations and generally don't kill as a result.

 

[epepke]

Well, that's isn't really a case of a minority being targeted, is it? He took advantage of his position to rape a woman that wanted to get out of jail. I guess I'm not sure what we're driving at here. I thought the focus was on white, authority figures discriminating against minorities. Have we shifted to just authority figures?

The focus could be on cops abusing copdom. In Ferguson, there's a dimension of skin color, and perhaps that is why white liberals, who don't normally care, are upset about it. However, there isn't really a lot here that doesn't happen in mostly-white small towns or places in Mexico.

Nor is a skin color component necessarily unidirectional. There is no question that there is a lot of hatred based on skin color in Ferguson, and when it explodes, it can go all sorts of ways.

 

[plague311]

The focus could be on cops abusing copdom. In Ferguson, there's a dimension of skin color, and perhaps that is why white liberals, who don't normally care, are upset about it. However, there isn't really a lot here that doesn't happen in mostly-white small towns or places in Mexico.

Nor is a skin color component necessarily unidirectional. There is no question that there is a lot of hatred based on skin color in Ferguson, and when it explodes, it can go all sorts of ways.

Sure, but that's not what we were discussing at the time. My comment was in regards to a story posted, while the conversation was about racial discrimination, that depicted a black guard raping a woman. It was a non sequitur.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

You don't explain why your question is important, haven't expanded on reasoning, haven't tried to answer it yourself, so you don't care about the answer. It's rhetorical tactic trying to 'score points' like some debate format.

So if I asked the distance from the Earth to the Sun, I would first have to explain why my question is important? Wow. Bizarre.

It would be pointless to try to answer your question because no one would have a way to know how exhaustive an answer you want, to which incidents, and who you would accept as a 'protestor'. You can move the goalpost all around because you haven't set a goalpost. If you cared about the answer, you'd see that there are several potential answers to your question, in this thread, before you asked it. You could expound on how those don't meet your expectations, but that would actually set goal posts. The only reason for your question is to bludgeon people that any answer is unacceptable. It's a trick, a trap. Stomp your feet all you want about people not wanting to play your game, but it doesn't advance your point or the discussion at all.

And again, you claim to be the one who could answer the question. Answer it.

I'm sure the local police appreciate the uncritical support of citizens like you as they drag reporters away.

EDIT: Anyone who might be under the illusion that his question has any validity can answer it with five seconds of Google searching.

You don't have to dodge it anymore, I already provided the answer. Hint: It's less than 1.

 

[tyr_13]

So if I asked the distance from the Earth to the Sun, I would first have to explain why my question is important? Wow. Bizarre.

Yes. Obviously. What do you think the answer to your question has to do with anything, and by extension, the question itself.

Your point was to say that the protesters are getting what they deserve, but you don't want to say that because it's so, well, wrong. So you dance around it with silly questions trying to tar the lot of them without having to stand by any claim. Just asking questions.

You don't have to dodge it anymore, I already provided the answer. Hint: It's less than 1.

Wrong, but now you've finally made a claim and I assume can back it.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

One of the "lead protestors" was asked on CNN not more than 30 minutes ago if she saw someone looting or causing violence, would she try to prevent it, or at least alert a police officer. Her answer? "I didn't sign up to be a police officer. That's their job."

Translation: No.

Game.
Set.
Match.

 

[jimbob]

So if I asked the distance from the Earth to the Sun, I would first have to explain why my question is important? Wow. Bizarre.



You don't have to dodge it anymore, I already provided the answer. Hint: It's less than 1.

And...

OK, and what has that to do with the price of fish?

The answer could be evidence that the local community has lost all trust in the police.

Maybe because blacks in Ferguson are about 3 times more likely to be stopped than whites

http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/Reports.php?lea=161

When stopped by police, blacks in Ferguson were twice as likely as whites to be arrested -- even though police found contraband for 34% of whites they stopped and searched, versus 22% of blacks​

Even if it hasn't, how does that justify the wrongful arrests that have been well documented?

ETA:

One of the "lead protestors" was asked on CNN not more than 30 minutes ago if she saw someone looting or causing violence, would she try to prevent it, or at least alert a police officer. Her answer? "I didn't sign up to be a police officer. That's their job."

Translation: No.

Game.
Set.
Match.

Not really. One person is not everyone. And one stated reason for the protests was a lack of trust in the police. Given how the police treated neutral observers (the press) lawful protesters of any colour would be justified in fearing the Ferguson police.

 

[Unabogie]

One of the "lead protestors" was asked on CNN not more than 30 minutes ago if she saw someone looting or causing violence, would she try to prevent it, or at least alert a police officer. Her answer? "I didn't sign up to be a police officer. That's their job."

Translation: No.

Game.
Set.
Match.

Your expectation is that a unarmed woman should be expected to stop looters? Ah, but of course you lumped that in with "at least alert officers". So it's also her job to act as neighborhood watch and expose her community to more violence? Why would she trust these officers to react professionally? Why should the victims of violence be expected to partner with the people who do them harm? Would you act this way?

 

[Upchurch]

One of the "lead protestors" was asked on CNN not more than 30 minutes ago if she saw someone looting or causing violence, would she try to prevent it, or at least alert a police officer. Her answer? "I didn't sign up to be a police officer. That's their job."

Translation: No.

Game.
Set.
Match.

...what?

Seriously, are you just trying for a record in the longest Poe ever? You are surely aware by now that this is a skeptic site and what logical fallacies are?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Your expectation is that a unarmed woman should be expected to stop looters? Ah, but of course you lumped that in with "at least alert officers". So it's also her job to act as neighborhood watch and expose her community to more violence? Why would she trust these officers to react professionally? Why should the victims of violence be expected to partner with the people who do them harm? Would you act this way?

Woooosh!!!!!

 

[Unabogie]

Woooosh!!!!!

That's for sure. I really don't see the world the way you do.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

That's for sure. I really don't see the world the way you do.

I know. Most people don't see the world the way skeptics do. It's the critical thinking thing that throws them.

 

[Unabogie]

I know. Most people don't see the world the way skeptics do. It's the critical thinking thing that throws them.

Most skeptics keep in mind that they could be wrong. Taunting and gloating don't usually go hand in hand with careful self-examination. Just a thought.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Most skeptics keep in mind that they could be wrong. Taunting and gloating don't usually go hand in hand with careful self-examination. Just a thought.

Could be, but weren't.


By the way, it looks like the peaceful protestors are stealing the cigars that St. Michael left behind.