The Electric Comet theory

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No Haig, a bunch of posts from a Thunderbolts forum from random people who cannot tell the difference between 0.6 gm/cc (average density of comets) and 3.0 gm/cc ( average density of asteroids) is not very telling !
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so it could be ice, Mupus found, RC?

>2Mpa and a Density of 0.6gm/cc??? RC?

Are you saying comets are like giant M&M's hard crust on the outside and icey on the inside?
 
so what bearing does the finding 67/P is harder than expected, even surprising some of the science team, have on the standard mainstream text book tell the kiddies in school theory of comet and the formation of the solar system?

don't forget to include the explanation for the high temp minerals returned from the stardust mission.

Scientists have long thought of comets as cold, billowing clouds of ice, dust and gases formed on the edges of the solar system. But comets may not be so simple or similar. They may prove to be diverse bodies with complex histories. Comet Wild 2 certainly is made up of components with a more complex history than thought.

Scientists found a wide variety in particle composition and size in the Wild 2 samples. Most of the Wild 2 samples appear to be weakly constructed mixtures of very small grains with a few larger grains. Also, a wide range of high- and low-temperature minerals, from olivine to low- and high-calcium pyroxene compositions, is present in the Wild 2 samples.

Such a diversity of high- and low-temperature minerals requires a wide range of formation conditions, probably reflecting different formation locations. Many particles did not form in the cold environment and locations where cometary ices condensed.

Instead, they needed high temperatures to form, as well as complex and as yet little understood dynamical processes to end up where comets actually formed. Also, particles from different environments must have undergone some process of accretion to end up as aggregates composed of different minerals.

One of the major discoveries from the analysis of the comet samples was finding particles rich in organic matter. "Comets are believed to have brought water and organic matter to the early Earth, and it is important to understand the nature of these materials because they are necessary ingredients for the origin of life," said Lindsay Keller, NASA scientist at JSC and Stardust co-investigator. "One of the first analyses we obtained on the samples showed abundant hydrocarbons in many of the particles."
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http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news110.html


Remembering that comets are the leftovers from the formation of a solar system.
 
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Sol88 said:
Yeah, but no ice found!
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whoa...wait a minute, i think i found the surface ice on comet Temple 1

517356main_Change_comparison-no-lines-43_full.jpg
www.nasa.gov/images/content/517356main_Change_comparison-no-lines-43_full.jpg

Look at all the bright ice on the surface, so bright it saturated the camera!! :eek:

How'd we miss that Reality Check? Do you think it's water ice? or CO2 ice?
 
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Sol88 said:
whoa...wait a minute, i think i found the surface ice on comet Temple 1

[qimg]http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/517356main_Change_comparison-no-lines-43_full.jpg[/qimg]www.nasa.gov/images/content/517356main_Change_comparison-no-lines-43_full.jpg

Look at all the bright ice on the surface, so bright it saturated the camera!! :eek:

How'd we miss that Reality Check? Do you think it's water ice? or CO2 ice?
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Again I find myself impressed by your ability to identify substances by looking at monochromatic images. Please do share with us your technique!
 
rwguinn said:
At the temperatures the comet is presently at, water ice is a very hard mineral.
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Gezz ... you mean the mainstream guy's didn't expect cold temperatures and water ice on a "Dirty Snowball" comet? :jaw-dropp

They took colour pictures and in this video and they say parts of the ground are slightly reddish and less red.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xm6y0LzlLo&feature=youtu.be&t=35m40s

Wonder what snow and ice is red? I know Fe is reddish and material from Mars is red. That could explain why they couldn't hammer drill into it's surface if it was an iron based material?

Maybe this 67P comet is a piece of Mars? ;)
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Then show us the actual science behind the theory. Because all I see from random websites is "It must be electricity because ... X"

Where X usually is "I don't understand actual physics"

Why is it so hard to put up some of the calculations underpinning the theory and explanations as to why space lightning behaves differently from normal electricity AND why it seems to selective (ie, it affects comets, but not the various metal spacecraft in orbit, nor astroids, nor planets).
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We need Pixie of key to come in and explain all this science in detail for us.
 
ApolloGnomon said:
Again I find myself impressed by your ability to identify substances by looking at monochromatic images. Please do share with us your technique!
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What puzzles me is how Sol's insistence on "no ice!" (from this uncanny ability of his to interpret imagery together with an equally impressive talent, pointed out by Dancing David, for misrepresenting peer-reviewed findings) is supposed to support his Electric Comet theory. It sounds a lot like the creationist tactic of "no evolution, therefore goddidit!" Theories in science stand or fall on their own merits, not the (supposed) failings of others; you can't make a whole fabric out of the holes you think you've poked in someone else's.
 
The Moog said:
We need Pixie of key to come in and explain all this science in detail for us.
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"I think it was extra expanding movement / energy from outside solarsystem which pushing inside expanding Sun and expanding comets which release some inside expanding energy / movement and thats expanding energy / movement pushing away / out from expanding Sun and expanding comets! thats why expanding Sun had a expanding Sunspots and expanding comet had a expanding tail!

EternalPressureChangingEternalLoveRecycling"

(Freely adapted from Pixie's gibberish in his "Onesimpleprinciple" thread- that's the nice thing about gibberish, it works anywhere.)
 
Sol88 said:
DD, please see link in post above,

LINK


A lot of people have said it :mad: get with thr program NO SUFFCIENT ICE's OBSERVED ON AND BELOW THE COMET NEUCLEUS TO ACCOUNT FOR THE OBSERVED OUT GASSING.

fair call?

But the gases are there none the less! :jaw-dropp
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I note you can find emoticon, but cite an actual source, a wikipedia page?

So make all the frown faces you want, when you link to actual research papers then we can discuss them.

The cure for a frown face is a smile.

:D
 
Sol88 said:
so it could be ice, Mupus found, RC?
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Yes, Sol88.

Sol88 said:
>2Mpa and a Density of 0.6gm/cc??? RC?
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No, Sol88
No one would be would be ignorant enough to compare those values because
  • Mpa is not density :jaw-dropp!
  • the density of 67P is 0.4 g/cm³
  • the density of 0.4 g/cm³ is an average density and so little to do with the surface density.

Sol88 said:
Are you saying comets are like giant M&M's hard crust on the outside and icey on the inside?
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No, Sol88: Comets are icy and dusty through out their volume.
We know that their surfaces are different from their interiors because they outgas. Thus anyone who knows about comets will suspect that they have a "crust" - just not the idiocy of a M&M analogy.
More like a ice-cream that has been in the freezer too long and has developed an icy exterior with s softer interior.
 
Sol88 said:
so what bearing does the finding 67/P is harder than expected, even surprising some of the science team, have on the standard mainstream text book tell the kiddies in school theory of comet and the formation of the solar system?
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None, Sol88 :p.
Kiddie school books will still simplify things down so that kids can understand them. I expect they still have a dirty snowball analogy for comets.

Remembering that comets are the leftovers from the formation of a solar system: Stardust Findings Suggest Comets More Complex Than Thought
Comets may be more than just simple conglomerations of ice, dust and gases. Some may be important windows on the early solar system. Others may have contributed materials necessary to the development of life on our own planet. Scientists have found a wide range of compositions and structures for the comet Wild 2 particles that were captured and returned to Earth by NASA's Stardust spacecraft. Their findings indicate the formation of at least some comets may have included materials ejected from the inner solar system to the far and cold outer edge of the solar nebula.
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This is that comets are the leftovers from the formation of a solar system :jaw-dropp.
 
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Haig said:
They took colour pictures and in this video and they say parts of the ground are slightly reddish and less red.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xm6y0LzlLo&feature=youtu.be&t=35m40s
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No, Haig.
What the guy (Holger?) says is that parts of the grey ground are slightly reddish/less red. He is talking about the red component of a grey surface.

A fairy story about this redness being because of Fe and thus the comet magically came from the iron oxide-rich regolith of Mars is bad because it shows ignorance about comets, Haig:
  • Comets were formed in the early history of the Solar System - no Mars with oxidized Fe existed - probably just a ball of molten rock!
  • Comets were formed in the outer Solar System.
 
ApolloGnomon said:
Again I find myself impressed by your ability to identify substances by looking at monochromatic images. Please do share with us your technique!
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Ummm.....use eyeball mk1 oh and your brian.

Comparison of Deep Impact and Stardust photos of a smooth elevated feature on the surface of the nucleus showing recession of icy cliffs at the margins.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempel_1


See told you they were ice and icy cliffs at that too :jaw-dropp wow!
 
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Sol88 said:
Ummm.....use eyeball mk1 oh and your brian.
...
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Ummm.... use the fact that Wikipedia is not always correct and that "icy" means full of ice (need not be not solid ice) or for that matter water, Sol88!

ETA: Astronomers are smart enough not to look at back an white images and imagine that they seer water ice - they analyze the actual spectra from the images.
Water Ice on Tempel 1: Before, During, and After the Impact Event
Three anomalously colored areas, covering a total of 0.5 km2 in high spatial resolution images (Fig. 1), are found to include water ice based on their IR spectra (see [3]).
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These are not cliff edges - they are actual areas!

ETA: It is possible that the shiny stuff that attracts you is just fresh resurfacing that you should expect at the edge of cliffs.
Photometry of the nucleus of Comet 9P/Tempel 1 from Stardust-NExT flyby and the implications
...The similar global photometric properties among cometary nuclei may indicate that these properties are dominated by cometary activity that results in constant resurfacing on comets. Tiny amounts of ice concentration on their surface can significantly change the local photometric properties.
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Reality Check said:
No, Haig.
What the guy (Holger?) says is that parts of the grey ground are slightly reddish/less red. He is talking about the red component of a grey surface.

A fairy story about this redness being because of Fe and thus the comet magically came from the iron oxide-rich regolith of Mars is bad because it shows ignorance about comets, Haig:
  • Comets were formed in the early history of the Solar System - no Mars with oxidized Fe existed - probably just a ball of molten rock!
  • Comets were formed in the outer Solar System.
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Bit like "Once upon a time, long long ago when the solar system was just dust and gas ....."

:o

You state it like fact, so Reality Check show me the proof all evidence so far proves otherwise.
 
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