Ebola in America

[rwguinn]

Overcautious quarantine is not "treating people like criminals".
Now that that straw is out of the way, let's face it: these people choose to go. It's not as if the affected areas in Africa are begging for American doctors and nurses because they don't have enough already, or African doctors and nurses are incompetent.

So why do they go? A) religious do gooders and B) people who know it'll receive more praise than its actual value when it's on their resume. We have plenty of places they can work here in this country... but that's not spicy enough.

When they come home and self quarantine you can throw the parties for them at your house for a couple of weeks.

Considering that those who came back home prior to the 2 afflicted Doctors, shortly followed by the guy who lied, there. was. no. issue.
Now that there has been a death, eveybody panic!

meantime, West Nile and HEV68 are causing deaths and/or hospitalizations on a regular basis. http://chcer.net/public-health-update-human-enterovirus-68-hev68-west-nile-and-ebola/
But panic is on a disease that is apparently hard to catch from casual or even intimate contact, and is obviously curable with proper care...

 

[Unabogie]

Overcautious quarantine is not "treating people like criminals".
Now that that straw is out of the way, let's face it: these people choose to go. It's not as if the affected areas in Africa are begging for American doctors and nurses because they don't have enough already, or African doctors and nurses are incompetent.

So why do they go? A) religious do gooders and B) people who know it'll receive more praise than its actual value when it's on their resume. We have plenty of places they can work here in this country... but that's not spicy enough.

When they come home and self quarantine you can throw the parties for them at your house for a couple of weeks.

I think that's absolutely ridiculous and based on completely erroneous assumptions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/h...as-Volunteers-Begin-to-Step-Forward.html?_r=0

Doctors and nurses are finally volunteering to fight the Ebola virus in West Africa after a long period of paralyzing fear in which almost none stepped forward.

So there was, in fact, a shortage of doctors and nurses, and these brave men and women stepped into the void and made themselves available, at great risk to themselves and their families. Mocking them as being self-aggrandizing jerks is just about the most wrong thing I've seen on the internet this week, beating out someone saying Justin Bieber is a great musician.

 

[Dan O.]

Now we are beginning to see why Monkety Ghost could not answer my previous question:

When is your hospital going to step up and do the right thing: Offer any professional nurse, doctor, technician that works with the hospital and volunteers to work 30 days in an Ebola hot spot or is directly caring for an Ebola patient at the hospital to be given 3 additional weeks of paid vacation at an Ebola free retreat.

Why does he want to punish those that take great personal risk to stop Ebola over in Africa? Is it a Scrooge McDuck greed that doesn't care if money is spent as long as it isn't his money that is being spent? Or does his reasoning have a darker undertone?

 

[Meadmaker]

It's not as if the affected areas in Africa are begging for American doctors and nurses because they don't have enough already, or African doctors and nurses are incompetent.

Well, now I have some insight into what the heck you were thinking with some of your previous posts.


Yes, they are begging for these things, and people really are dying because they don't have them. And if that doesn't bother you, just know that there's no way to keep those people where they are, so some of them are coming to your home town. (See Dan O.'s post). Your response is the 21st century equivalent of "Let them eat cake." and it will work just about as well for 21st century Americans as it did for 18th century French royalty.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Considering that those who came back home prior to the 2 afflicted Doctors, shortly followed by the guy who lied, there. was. no. issue.
Now that there has been a death, eveybody panic!

meantime, West Nile and HEV68 are causing deaths and/or hospitalizations on a regular basis. http://chcer.net/public-health-update-human-enterovirus-68-hev68-west-nile-and-ebola/
But panic is on a disease that is apparently hard to catch from casual or even intimate contact, and is obviously curable with proper care...

It has no cure.

Third world work looks great in first world resumes. Their choice. A choice made most often by people that can well afford it or are being sponsored outright.

There are so many places they could work in the United States, but they want to gain experience with a disease nobody is going to get in the US? It's still not a whopping load of cases and there are tons of volunteers willing to work with them- African medical professionals.

Since March, Doctors Without Borders has treated more than 250 confirmed cases. In the town I'm writing this in, more people will die of liver disease and develop encephalopathy in the same time period.

 

[rwguinn]

It has no cure.

So we now have 2 Zombie Doctors, a Zombie Photographer and 2 Zombie Nurses walking amongst us? IT HAS STARTED!

Third world work looks great in first world resumes. Their choice. A choice made most often by people that can well afford it or are being sponsored outright.

There are so many places they could work in the United States, but they want to gain experience with a disease nobody is going to get in the US? It's still not a whopping load of cases and there are tons of volunteers willing to work with them- African medical professionals.

Since March, Doctors Without Borders has treated more than 250 confirmed cases. In the town I'm writing this in, more people will die of liver disease and develop encephalopathy in the same time period.

No contradiction between you previous position(s) and the highlited?
It seems that we have a case of "Me First!" going on here...

 

[Dan O.]

It has no cure.

And yet many have survived with proper treatment.

Since March, Doctors Without Borders has treated more than 250 confirmed cases. In the town I'm writing this in, more people will die of liver disease and develop encephalopathy in the same time period.

That was from last June. Are you so apathetic that you can't be bothered to keep up with the current statistics?

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/137424/1/roadmapsitrep_31Oct2014_eng.pdf

 

[Monketi Ghost]

So we now have 2 Zombie Doctors, a Zombie Photographer and 2 Zombie Nurses walking amongst us? IT HAS STARTED!

of course I wasn't referring to those who survived the actual disease.

No contradiction between you previous position(s) and the highlited?
It seems that we have a case of "Me First!" going on here...

It has been the position of others that nobody here in the US will get it, there's nothing to worry about. That's an exaggeration of course: I think what people mean by that is that EVD will never gain a significant toehold. That seems to me to be realistic.

Also realistic: it probably will come. My work position is clear enough: I've been told by my union that should EVD patients arrive at my hospital, I will have no role in treating them. That's fine with me.

My position with regards to the CDC recommended quarantine period is that we should follow their guidelines and not bitch about rights and freedoms because that quarantine got extended a bit due to non scientific political concerns about containing panic.

It's not as if, suddenly, the public at large is going to look to science as their guide. Not over simpler matters of evolutionary theory, and certainly not over something that can actually kill them in a horrible way.

I think the panic, such as it is, has to do with how it kills you as much as its mortality rate.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

And yet many have survived with proper treatment.




That was from last June. Are you so apathetic that you can't be bothered to keep up with the current statistics?

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/137424/1/roadmapsitrep_31Oct2014_eng.pdf

Yah, fully admit I dropped the ball on that and retract it.

 

[catsmate]

Overcautious quarantine is not "treating people like criminals".

Actually it's worse given the abject lack of reasonable basis and lack of due process.

Now that that straw is out of the way,

let's face it: these people choose to go. It's not as if the affected areas in Africa are begging for American doctors and nurses because they don't have enough already, or African doctors and nurses are incompetent.

Utter garbage. EVD related casualties in Africa had a serious impact on their ability to fight the disease and maintain even basic levels of health care.

You may have failed to notice this but EVD spread in Africa despite medical intervention, rather suggesting that more assistance was needed.

So why do they go? A) religious do gooders and B) people who know it'll receive more praise than its actual value when it's on their resume. We have plenty of places they can work here in this country... but that's not spicy enough.

FFS are you really so out of touch with humanity that you claim that the only reason to volunteer abroad is resume padding, praise or religion?

When they come home and self quarantine you can throw the parties for them at your house for a couple of weeks.

Or, and this is just a suggestion, the idiots trying to impose this unscientific crap could make proper arrangements, rather than grandstanding for the press.

 

[catsmate]

It has no cure.

But a relatively high survival rate with treatment

Third world work looks great in first world resumes.

Citation required.

Their choice. A choice made most often by people that can well afford it or are being sponsored outright.

Actually no it isn't (and I notice that as usual you provide no evidence to support you assertion). Medical volunteers are often young and suffer financial hardship because of their choice.
In the real world not everyone is as greedy as you seem to think. Perhaps you need better standards.

There are so many places they could work in the United States, but they want to gain experience with a disease nobody is going to get in the US?

Perhaps you might want to re-think this claim.

It's still not a whopping load of cases and there are tons of volunteers willing to work with them- African medical professionals.

Try looking at the number of medical professionals in the countries effected by EVD and the casualties.

 

[Meadmaker]

My position with regards to the CDC recommended quarantine period is that we should follow their guidelines and not bitch about rights and freedoms because that quarantine got extended a bit due to non scientific political concerns about containing panic.

I have spoken a bit about Ms. Hickox' rights, but that was never my main concern. For me, that was more of an interesting legalism. The basic concept of erring on the side of caution seems reasonable to me. The problem is that the quarantine was extended beyond the CDC guidelines in such a way as to have a real chilling effect on people's willingness to go over there and fight that disease. This, I believed, put me at risk.

In other words, I think it's very important to contain that disease at its source. I think that disease is bad news and not something to mess with. Kill it before it grows. In all the hubbub about returning workers I have been pleased to learn that the disease is not as bad as my previous impression of it, but it's still bad. The African nations fighting the disease need help, and we need to help them, not for their safety, but for ours.

Once Governor Cuomo backed off a bit on his policy, I applauded the modified stance. It's still a quarantine, but not confinement the way that Hickox was treated, and he offered to pay them for their lost salary. That seems reasonable. I think that Dan O.'s call for three weeks paid vacation at a five star tropical resort seems a bit excessive, but only a bit. Three weeks paid vacation at home? Yeah. I'll cough up my part of that bill. Money well spent.

And yeah, I would buy them some pizza and beer on top of it.

 

[cosmicaug]

It's not as if the affected areas in Africa are begging for American doctors and nurses because they don't have enough already, or African doctors and nurses are incompetent.

No, <snip> they may not be particularly incompetent but, quoting Wikipedia "Liberia has 5,000 full-time or part-time health workers and 51 Liberian doctors to cater to a population of 3.8 million, according to the 2006 health survey."

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited, Rule 0

 

[PhantomWolf]

CDC Admits Ebola is A lot More Easier to Catch

nypost.com/2014/10/29/cdc-admits-droplets-from-a-sneeze-could-spread-ebola/

Seriously where is a huge face palm when you need it.

The "droplets" that they are talking about are from blood, not normal sneezes. When the infection starts to enter the lungs, the patient can cough or sneeze up droplets that contain blood and the virus, however, the patient has to be extremely sick at that point, and would have to literally cough or sneeze directly onto the surface, or onto another unprotected person for transmission to occur. In the entire history of all known Ebola outbreaks since 1976, this form of transmission has never been reported.

 

[catsmate]

Potential case in North Carolina. Link.

 

[casebro]

Potential case in North Carolina. Link.

Fear mongery from Catsmate. "N.C. DHHS News Release: Preliminary Negative Result for Ebola in Patient at Duke University Hospital"

 

[Shepherd]

Seriously where is a huge face palm when you need it.

The "droplets" that they are talking about are from blood, not normal sneezes. When the infection starts to enter the lungs, the patient can cough or sneeze up droplets that contain blood and the virus, however, the patient has to be extremely sick at that point, and would have to literally cough or sneeze directly onto the surface, or onto another unprotected person for transmission to occur. In the entire history of all known Ebola outbreaks since 1976, this form of transmission has never been reported.

From the materials I've read, the "droplets" could be any bodily fluid such as tears, sweat, saliva, milk, semen and, yes, even blood. In one study I read, 8 of 12 saliva samples from those who were acutely ill tested positive for the Ebola virus. 4 samples from convalescing people (people who were recovering) showed none. Supposedly, only 2 of the 16 samples had any visible blood in them.

It also said there was Ebola in the saliva early on in the illness and that it was detectable during viremia - when the virus was in the person's blood.

It would probably be safe to say that many who contracted the disease did not know how they got it. Some have said as much.

In a report I saw, the doctors in Africa quit using their special suits when they went into villages looking for Ebola victims because they tended to scare people. Instead, they would just make sure they stayed several feet away from everyone so they would be out of range of any sort of fluids that might come there way - like potential projectile vomiting.

 

[cosmicaug]

You're basing that on your own assessment of risk tolerance, but it's not a risk tolerance you have the right to demand others accept.

Here's some more people making an assessment of risk tolerance:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/ebola-rwanda-oklahoma-teacher_n_6062726.html

 

[catsmate]

Here's some more people making an assessment of risk tolerance:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/ebola-rwanda-oklahoma-teacher_n_6062726.html

Fairly typical of the science illiterate USAian mob.
I hope that, in addition to the three weeks of paid leave, any other expenses she incurs are also paid.

 

[DavidJames]

We entertained a couple from Zambia yesterday (in the country about a week). Anyone wanna contribute to my 21 day paid leave? My wife as well, thank you.

I suspect the lingering affects from the Bronco game will have a much greater impact then Ebola.