Barkley Speaks His Mind

[Unabogie]

You mean aside from his frequent on-court brawls, and that time he threw a guy through a window?

Heh. There was that time he brawled with Shaq.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

You mean aside from his frequent on-court brawls, and that time he threw a guy through a window?

Like I said, I don't know much about him, hence the question. I hadn't heard of his brawls or assaults. I suppose a lack of impulse control could be considered an indication of a lack of intelligence, but I'm unsure as to what extent.

 

[CplFerro]

I've always liked Barkley. Now even more so:

"During a radio interview, the media personality said that he believed successful African-Americans are targeted by "brainwashed" and "uneducated" members of their community. "For some reason, we're brainwashed to think if you're not a thug or an idiot, you're not black enough," he said. "If you go to school, make good grades, speak intelligent and don't break the law, you're not a good black person. ... As a black person, we all go through it when you're successful."

I heard the interview, or at least the relevant part of it. I applaud him for being brave enough to speak out about the viciously sadistic anti-black racism haunting the black community. Thank you for bringing it up.

Cpl Ferro

 

[CplFerro]

You're welcome...but we're getting off track again.

We're in 2014. Does anyone remember this time of year, in 2008? This is about the time when Obama was elected president. And black people (as well as some white people, but that's not the point) just burst out in celebration? People were banging drums, honking horns. Hell, people just created parades to celebrate the first black president.

But now, a mere six years later, we're supposed to think that the average black person hates to see another black person succeed.

That's nonsense, obviously.

A handful of dedicated bullies detracting and intimidating vulnerable blacks, accompanied by a larger number of indifferent go-alongs, could very well make it seem to said blacks that the "average black person" hates to see black success. Good people/do nothing/evil and all that.

Cpl Ferro

 

[mgidm86]

That's a really square peg for that round pole. I don't see anything he wrote as a conspiracy theory, and I'm pretty sure you don't either. If you had any sense of decency you'd just apologize and move on.

Really?

He said this:

Some people go way too far towards one or another - clearly, black people in the US have relatively little wealth because it was taken from them. Obviously, a strong family (not necessarily a married mother and father) is important for raising children. Obviously, good schools are a requirement for an educated population. Obviously, doing things like concentrating bus depots in black neighborhoods, especially when they ran on leaded fuel, will affect those neighborhoods. Those can all be, and are, true at once.

I take the hilighted bit to mean that leaded-fuel burning buses were purposely operated in black neighborhoods to - I can only assume - hurt or kill off the black population in that area. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, especially when prefaced with "obviously". I'm not accepting any of these statements at face value, none of them are 100% true, but the bus thing? Evidence?

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

Really?

He said this:

I take the hilighted bit to mean that leaded-fuel burning buses were purposely operated in black neighborhoods to - I can only assume - hurt or kill off the black population in that area. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, especially when prefaced with "obviously". I'm not accepting any of these statements at face value, none of them are 100% true, but the bus thing? Evidence?

It wasn't my impression that he was saying this was done purposefully with intent to harm the black population, but that it was easy for society to concentrate these types of facilities in black neighborhoods as a consequence of black people being more impoverished and vulnerable and less able to counteract such things. That doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory, to me. The fact that there might have also been health consequences also isn't a conspiracy theory.

To me, reading his post in such a way as to assume conspiracy theory indicates a bias with regard to how you're interpreting his words.

 

[Unabogie]

Really?

Yes,really.

I take the hilighted bit to mean that leaded-fuel burning buses were purposely operated in black neighborhoods to - I can only assume - hurt or kill off the black population in that area. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, especially when prefaced with "obviously". I'm not accepting any of these statements at face value, none of them are 100% true, but the bus thing? Evidence?

It wasn't my impression that he was saying this was done purposefully with intent to harm the black population, but that it was easy for society to concentrate these types of facilities in black neighborhoods as a consequence of black people being more impoverished and vulnerable and less able to counteract such things. That doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory, to me. The fact that there might have also been health consequences also isn't a conspiracy theory.

To me, reading his post in such a way as to assume conspiracy theory indicates a bias with regard to how you're interpreting his words.

Exactly. Or as I wrote above:

In a lot of places there was also the issue of redlining and segregation. Places like Bill O'Reilly's famous Levittown, where he likes to say he learned him his solid family values and virtues, explicitly forbade minorities from living there. So naturally, in many places, if you can't find housing where the white people are you end up finding it in the places where no one wants to live. And that's usually "on the other side of the tracks" where the factories are. This results in minorities living near pollution at a higher rate than whites. So it's not a conspiracy in the sense that whites want to make black people sick, it's that segregation results in black people getting sick, and white people didn't think that was a good enough reason to change the situation.

 

[Mumbles]

A handful of dedicated bullies detracting and intimidating vulnerable blacks, accompanied by a larger number of indifferent go-alongs, could very well make it seem to said blacks that the "average black person" hates to see black success. Good people/do nothing/evil and all that.

Cpl Ferro

But again, when you look into most actual black neighborhoods, what you find are a great many black people working on anti-violence, asking for improved schools, and supporting kids who are going along the right path. And there are plenty of organizations helping out - 100 Black Men, Inroads, National Action Network, and so on. One person who is not at all involved, as far as I can tell, is Charles Barkley. And that's fine, he does plenty for other worthy causes. But he's mostly talking about people he's never even *seen* before, much less had conversations with.

Now, I won't deny that there exist neighborhoods where people act the way Barkley describes, as well as the usual knuckleheads. Bus as I said before, you can find this sort of talk in reconstruction-era newspapers, you can find it from black people in the North discussing black immigrants from the South during the Great Migration. It's not new, it's not thoughtful, it's not at all brave for Barkley to say it.

Really?

He said this:

I take the hilighted bit to mean that leaded-fuel burning buses were purposely operated in black neighborhoods to - I can only assume - hurt or kill off the black population in that area. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, especially when prefaced with "obviously". I'm not accepting any of these statements at face value, none of them are 100% true, but the bus thing? Evidence?

Already given.

And if I meant to write that whites purposefully placed bus depots in black communities in order to make black people sick, I would have written that.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Now, I did hide the fact that I was playing Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 3, but that's less "intelligent", and more "nerdy".

You are among friends here, this secret is safe with us.

Just because I like Charles Barkley when he does bits on sports talk radio doesn't mean Charles is always right.
I do like how he's not big into self censorship.

 

[CplFerro]

But again, when you look into most actual black neighborhoods, what you find are a great many black people working on anti-violence, asking for improved schools, and supporting kids who are going along the right path. And there are plenty of organizations helping out - 100 Black Men, Inroads, National Action Network, and so on. One person who is not at all involved, as far as I can tell, is Charles Barkley. And that's fine, he does plenty for other worthy causes. But he's mostly talking about people he's never even *seen* before, much less had conversations with.

Now, I won't deny that there exist neighborhoods where people act the way Barkley describes, as well as the usual knuckleheads. Bus as I said before, you can find this sort of talk in reconstruction-era newspapers, you can find it from black people in the North discussing black immigrants from the South during the Great Migration. It's not new, it's not thoughtful, it's not at all brave for Barkley to say it.



Already given.

And if I meant to write that whites purposefully placed bus depots in black communities in order to make black people sick, I would have written that.

It's a useful observation and how brave it was to speak it is in proportion to its truth.

Cpl Ferro

 

[WildCat]

I neither expect nor desire an apology from Wildcat, but here's a starting point for anyone interested.

As soon as I saw the phrase "Environmental Justice" I knew it was a loony tune site that would be long on speculation and accusations and short on facts.

 

[WildCat]

Here's two things that tick me off about what Barkley said. First, um, Charles Barkley is not intelligent. In fact, he was probably one of the guys who ound beat up "nerds" back in school.

And now you start with more unfounded accusations.

Second, in my experience, both as a smart black kid, and as a mentor, people in the hood will support the intelligent kid, and celebrate when he or she succeeds

You can claim whatever you like, but I'll decide on the evidence.

 

[WildCat]

!

We're discussing Boston here. Neighborhoods like Roxbury predate the invention of the Diesel engine. The houses were there first.

Blacks didn't migrate to Roxbury until the 1940s and 1950s, prior to that it was predominantly Jewish.

I can assure you diesel engines were invented prior to the 1940s, and Roxbury was an industrial area since the late 1800s.

Oh dear, there goes your conspiracy theory!

 

[Mumbles]

You are among friends here, this secret is safe with us.

Heh, at this point, I'm in my mid-late 30s, with a MSEE. I can't be bothered worrying about that sort of thing now.

Although, back in 1991? Whew!

Just because I like Charles Barkley when he does bits on sports talk radio doesn't mean Charles is always right.
I do like how he's not big into self censorship.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Barkley is speaking out of malice, necessarily (and really, I think he isn't). And I won't belittle the causes that I know he contributes to - child abuse, war atrocities, and supporting the troops. All worthy causes, in my opinion. But what he's saying is incorrect factually in most black neighborhoods. And worse, it gives cover to the real problem - the actual racists, the ones who ramble about "black mob violence" and assume any given black kid is a "thug". But black people insulting other black people, again, is not new.

 

[Unabogie]

Blacks didn't migrate to Roxbury until the 1940s and 1950s, prior to that it was predominantly Jewish.

I can assure you diesel engines were invented prior to the 1940s, and Roxbury was an industrial area since the late 1800s.

Oh dear, there goes your conspiracy theory!

Yep. No sense of honesty or decency.

 

[Mumbles]

Blacks didn't migrate to Roxbury until the 1940s and 1950s, prior to that it was predominantly Jewish.

I can assure you diesel engines were invented prior to the 1940s, and Roxbury was an industrial area since the late 1800s.

I did not discuss "blacks" in the quote you provided. I discussed "houses". Are you somehow confused about how a black person differs from a house?

Oh dear, there goes your conspiracy theory!

This will likely end in disappointment, but on the off chance that it turns entertaining...

What, exactly, is this conspiracy theory that you think I'm claiming?

 

[SezMe]

Coconut is definitely a slur that is used in South Africa to describe blacks who are more "western". It appears to be a slur used almost exclusively by blacks themselves.

The term used in the western US is 'oreo.'

Yeah, because the coconut slur is reserved for Latinos, at least in southern California.

Pyrrhic is the right word. A milquetoast middle class family, headed by a doctor who's played by a serial rapist.

Huh? Are you talking about Cosby?

But what he's saying is incorrect factually in most black neighborhoods.

You either:
- have lived in all black neighborhoods and can personally make this assessment; or
- have a survey of poll that backs up this claim.

 

[WildCat]

I did not discuss "blacks" in the quote you provided. I discussed "houses". Are you somehow confused about how a black person differs from a house?

This will likely end in disappointment, but on the off chance that it turns entertaining...

What, exactly, is this conspiracy theory that you think I'm claiming?

You were saying that bus depots were built in black neighborhoods to poison them or something, and posted a link that blathered about "environmental justice". Remember when you said " Obviously, doing things like concentrating bus depots in black neighborhoods,"

The neighborhood you mentioned by name wasn't black when the industries, and presumably bus depots, were built there.

Are you now walking back that claim?

 

[WildCat]

Yep. No sense of honesty or decency.

Name one thing I've been dishonest about.

Show your work!

So sorry that I'm not doing the "decent" thing and accepting wild conspiracy theories without any evidence, because questioning them will get me accused of racism or something.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

Huh? Are you talking about Cosby?

I assume he is, considering that Cosby has been hounded by such accusations for decades.