Ebola in America

[PhantomWolf]

How disappointing it must be to the hysterical that the only people who've contracted Ebola here are those who provided direct care to a patient with severe symptoms. Science trumps Internet hysteria again.

Trouble is that it's not just Internet hysteria, we have politicians engaging in this sort of anti-science hysteria as well, publicising it widely and encouraging those that really don't know better to panic as well.

 

[Giz]

Not according to WHO. They state that "[the] whole virus has never been found in sweat.". Without the entire virus appearing in sweat, you can't contract it from it.

While you can get it via Breast Milk and Semen, I was assuming that most people here worrying about quarantine were not planning to have sex or drink the breast milk of those that were wanting quarantined. I was also assuming they didn't plan to share needles, though I'd note that sharing needles is a blood transfer, so comes under being a contact with their blood entering your body.

Finally, I don't think that anyone is planning to eat uncooked meat from infected bats or primates, so we don't need to worry about that either. That leaves the big three. Blood, faeces, and vomit, and I doubt many people would actually touch those in public places, let alone then sticking their finger in an eye, nose, or mouth before washing it.

So short of having an extremely sick patient actually cough directly in your mouth, there isn't a risk, and if that happened, and you caught it, you'd be the first person on the planet to do so via that method.

Huh, so now you are saying the CDC is wrong about how Ebola is transmitted? You should tell the unquarantinable nurse (and her defenders on this thread) they seemed to be using the CDC as some kind of knowledgeable authority.

 

[Unabogie]

How disappointing it must be to the hysterical that the only people who've contracted Ebola here are those who provided direct care to a patient with severe symptoms. Science trumps Internet hysteria again.

Trouble is that it's not just Internet hysteria, we have politicians engaging in this sort of anti-science hysteria as well, publicising it widely and encouraging those that really don't know better to panic as well.

Precisely. It's obvious that the GOP, and their PR firm Fox News, have decided that Ebola was a vehicle to ratchet up the fear level prior to the midterms. So they've not only hyped the threat, but they've deliberately spread the meme that the CDC is "hiding something" nefarious. And the result of this is that their constituents have completely lost faith in medical science and are so amped up that simply allowing the normal protocols to do their work is freaking people out. So now people like Bobby Jindal, Paul LePage, Chris Christie, and Andrew Cuomo are out there trying to show which of them can be the "tough on Ebola" guy. This is the absolute worst thing we could be doing in case the virus actually does mutate. Half the country doesn't trust the official status of the situation, in no small part because some opportunists saw an electoral advantage in them feeling that way. It's so irresponsible I almost can't wrap my mind around it.

 

[Dan O.]

I also doubt US soldiers are getting 5 star treatment in their government ordered quarantine.

The military version of the quarantine is quite similar to what I have been proposing. The only difference is that the military personnel already volunteered for whatever orders they are given. The individuals are not isolated, they are given access to recreational facilities and they are still being paid in addition to having meals and lodging furnished. There is just an isolation between the group and the rest of the base for the 21 day incubation period.

 

[Unabogie]

Huh, so now you are saying the CDC is wrong about how Ebola is transmitted? You should tell the unquarantinable nurse (and her defenders on this thread) they seemed to be using the CDC as some kind of knowledgeable authority.

Huh?

 

[The Greater Fool]

Well, if Dr. Spencer lied, I'm sure he did it for a good cause. Like bowling.

Certainly, this is a good reason to keep your hands off of other people's balls in bowling alleys.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Certainly, this is a good reason to keep your hands off of other people's balls in bowling alleys.

And everywhere else, for that matter.

 

[Ziggurat]

Precisely. It's obvious that the GOP, and their PR firm Fox News, have decided that Ebola was a vehicle to ratchet up the fear level prior to the midterms. So they've not only hyped the threat, but they've deliberately spread the meme that the CDC is "hiding something" nefarious. And the result of this is that their constituents have completely lost faith in medical science and are so amped up that simply allowing the normal protocols to do their work is freaking people out. So now people like Bobby Jindal, Paul LePage, Chris Christie, and Andrew Cuomo are out there trying to show which of them can be the "tough on Ebola" guy.

One wonders how Jerry Brown and Dannel Malloy fits into your GOP conspiracy theory.

This is the absolute worst thing we could be doing in case the virus actually does mutate.

Taking extra precautions is the "absolute worst thing we could be doing"? That's an... interesting... interpretation.

It's so irresponsible I almost can't wrap my mind around it.

I believe you completely when you say you can't wrap your mind around it.

 

[Giz]

Huh?

On the off chance that is an honest question...

The CDC included sweat as a transmission vector. ("blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola")

PhantomWolf appears to be saying that isn't true ("Not according to WHO. They state that "[the] whole virus has never been found in sweat.". Without the entire virus appearing in sweat, you can't contract it from it. ")

Folks defending the nurse have justified her decision as being inline with CDC guidelines... except now they are (when politically convenient) bashing the CDC as not being knowledgeable about transmission vectors... perhaps where there is confusion, it wouldn't hurt to err on the side of caution.

 

[Unabogie]

One wonders how Jerry Brown and Dannel Malloy fits into your GOP conspiracy theory.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's beyond dispute that the far right are the ones engaged in conspiracy theories, since they are running around telling each other that Obama is bringing Ebola to the US on purpose and the CDC is covering it up. That this is good politics for the GOP is hardly earth shattering news.

Taking extra precautions is the "absolute worst thing we could be doing"? That's an... interesting... interpretation.

No, you're confused because you didn't read what I wrote. I said that causing widespread mistrust in the CDC in order to score political points is the worst thing you can do, since if the situation actually becomes dire in the US due to a mutation, people won't pay attention to official advice because they've been conditioned to think Obama is actually trying to kill them.

I believe you completely when you say you can't wrap your mind around it.

And a personal attack. You should really try engaging in honest conversation one day. It'll be a refreshing change.

 

[Unabogie]

On the off chance that is an honest question...

The CDC included sweat as a transmission vector. ("blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola")

PhantomWolf appears to be saying that isn't true ("Not according to WHO. They state that "[the] whole virus has never been found in sweat.". Without the entire virus appearing in sweat, you can't contract it from it. ")

Folks defending the nurse have justified her decision as being inline with CDC guidelines... except now they are (when politically convenient) bashing the CDC as not being knowledgeable about transmission vectors... perhaps where there is confusion, it wouldn't hurt to err on the side of caution.

Oh, I see where the confusion is. Note the highlighted part. It's only transmissible this way when a person is sick. That's why the CDC only advises temperature monitoring for people exposed to Ebola patients. As long as there is no fever and no other symptoms, the virus cannot spread via sweat.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Huh, so now you are saying the CDC is wrong about how Ebola is transmitted? You should tell the unquarantinable nurse (and her defenders on this thread) they seemed to be using the CDC as some kind of knowledgeable authority.

Well firstly, did the CDC actually say it was a way of transmission, or did they say that the virus could be found in it, and you've interpreted the rest?

Second,.. I'm not saying it, the World Health Organisation, the people who have been dealing with the outbreak in Africa, are the ones saying it. They have specially stated that the entire virus has never been found in sweat and that it has never been shown to be transmitted that way.

I gave you the link to the doctor discussing it, and he also discusses the difference between the CDC and WHO.

When it comes to who is right, I would say that WHO has way more experience and knowledge about the disease than the CDC, so you'll need to prove that they have it wrong.

 

[Giz]

Well firstly, did the CDC actually say it was a way of transmission, or did they say that the virus could be found in it, and you've interpreted the rest?

They specifically included it in the list of ways it could be transmitted between people.

(See the link I posted earlier

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html?s_cid=cs_3923

 

[PhantomWolf]

They specifically included it in the list of ways it could be transmitted between people.

(See the link I posted earlier

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html?s_cid=cs_3923

I suspect someone at the CDC took WHO's list but didn't read it.

from WHO

The Ebola virus is transmitted among humans through close and direct physical contact with infected bodily fluids, the most infectious being blood, faeces and vomit.

The Ebola virus has also been detected in breast milk, urine and semen. In a convalescent male, the virus can persist in semen for at least 70 days; one study suggests persistence for more than 90 days.

Saliva and tears may also carry some risk. However, the studies implicating these additional bodily fluids were extremely limited in sample size and the science is inconclusive. In studies of saliva, the virus was found most frequently in patients at a severe stage of illness. The whole live virus has never been isolated from sweat.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Well firstly, did the CDC actually say it was a way of transmission, or did they say that the virus could be found in it, and you've interpreted the rest?

Second,.. I'm not saying it, the World Health Organisation, the people who have been dealing with the outbreak in Africa, are the ones saying it. They have specially stated that the entire virus has never been found in sweat and that it has never been shown to be transmitted that way.

I gave you the link to the doctor discussing it, and he also discusses the difference between the CDC and WHO.

When it comes to who is right, I would say that WHO has way more experience and knowledge about the disease than the CDC, so you'll need to prove that they have it wrong.

Thus showing that the CDC is being slightly more cautious than necessary, i.e. erring a bit on the side of caution. And yet, to politicians they are not being cautious enough.

 

[Steve]

A quick search by me indicates that the current status of ebola in America since the OP on Sept 30, is:

9 people infected in total.

2 cases contracted in the US, both by persons involved directly in the treatment of Thomas Duncan.

7 cases contracted in Africa.

1 dead.

1 currently in isolation and being treated.

7 successfully treated.

0 cases involving anyone infected through casual contact in public places.

The death of Duncan was a shame but could have been avoided. Otherwise, America seems to be dealing with ebola quite well using the protocols and treatments currently available. Nothing so far has been gained by the (mostly right wing) political and public hysteria.

 

[Dr. Keith]

A quick search by me indicates that the current status of ebola in America since the OP on Sept 30, is:

9 people infected in total.

2 cases contracted in the US, both by persons involved directly in the treatment of Thomas Duncan.

7 cases contracted in Africa.

1 dead.

1 currently in isolation and being treated.

7 successfully treated.

0 cases involving anyone infected through casual contact in public places.

The death of Duncan was a shame but could have been avoided. Otherwise, America seems to be dealing with ebola quite well using the protocols and treatments currently available. Nothing so far has been gained by the (mostly right wing) political and public hysteria.

No, I'm pretty sure we're all dead by Wednesday next.

Maybe if you used bayesian analysis . . .

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Thus showing that the CDC is being slightly more cautious than necessary, i.e. erring a bit on the side of caution. And yet, to politicians they are not being cautious enough.

Well, obviously politicians are going to favor overcautious policy so that they cannot be blamed.
For all the whining this nurse is doing about her rights, the government has to have authority in these matters, who would want unenforced, ineffective quarantines? I'd be scared to death if this started happening on a more regular basis, complete with people complaining about rights being stepped on and being obstinately defiant.

The disease can't possibly be spread through overcautious procedure being followed. A good buffer zone on quarantine time ensures this and that's a small price to pay.

ETA:http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0IK1LZ20141031?irpc=932

 

[Dr. Keith]

Well, obviously politicians are going to favor overcautious policy so that they cannot be blamed.

But there must be checks on that or else the government could do anything under the cover of being cautious.

For all the whining this nurse is doing about her rights, the government has to have authority in these matters, who would want unenforced, ineffective quarantines?

Yes, they must have the authority where they can show a need. Where there is no need the authority is necessary. Can they ban black people from drinking out of water fountains out of fear of spreading sickle cell anemia? Are we going to quarantine all people with the flu, a disease that WILL kill more Americans this year than Ebola?

No, the authority can not be absolute, nor can it be based solely on fear.

A good buffer zone on quarantine time ensures this and that's a small price to pay.

So long as you are not the one paying it?

I'm not willing to give up any of my freedoms in exchange for political grand standing and it is courageous of her to be the first one to stand on her principles on this point.

If there were a medically sound reason to quarantine her the state would have taken legal action. I imagine they are not keen on going to court where they will most likely lose.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Well, obviously politicians are going to favor overcautious policy so that they cannot be blamed.
For all the whining this nurse is doing about her rights, the government has to have authority in these matters, who would want unenforced, ineffective quarantines? I'd be scared to death if this started happening on a more regular basis, complete with people complaining about rights being stepped on and being obstinately defiant.

The disease can't possibly be spread through overcautious procedure being followed. A good buffer zone on quarantine time ensures this and that's a small price to pay.

ETA:http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0IK1LZ20141031?irpc=932

Do you support a mandatory quarantine of people who might have the flu?