Barkley Speaks His Mind

[Lorentz]

I've always liked Barkley. Now even more so:

"During a radio interview, the media personality said that he believed successful African-Americans are targeted by "brainwashed" and "uneducated" members of their community. "For some reason, we're brainwashed to think if you're not a thug or an idiot, you're not black enough," he said. "If you go to school, make good grades, speak intelligently and don't break the law, you're not a good black person. ... As a black person, we all go through it when you're successful."

Sorry, that mistake just prevented me from thinking about the actual issues. In this particular context... bad.

 

[luchog]

I'm a white far-left person with a lot of white far-left acquaintances and have never heard any of them say a particular person isn't "black" enough for any reason.

You sure you don't have your left and right confused?

I can't say I've ever heard any right-winger care about "authenticity" or "representing the real X community" with regard to minorities; they're more likely to complain that said minorities are not white enough.

 

[WildCat]

I'm a white far-left person with a lot of white far-left acquaintances and have never heard any of them say a particular person isn't "black" enough for any reason.

You sure you don't have your left and right confused?

It's common enough that Obama had to address it when he first ran for president: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/08/11/obama-enough-with-the-‘black-enough’-talk/

I've hilited the word that may have kept you from hearing it in your own circles.

 

[Cain]

The term used in the western US is 'oreo.'

Which is UNORIGINAL. I call blacks who act white "Hydrox."

 

[Mike!]

Which is UNORIGINAL. I call blacks who act white "Hydrox."

Wait a second, how does Greek mythology play into this?

 

[Mumbles]

Not black myself, but I get to hear a lot of my white far-left acquaintances pontificate about how a particular person isn't "black" enough, because said person is too far removed from the "violent because oppression" meme, or because they insisted that education and a stable family were critically important for their success.

Some people go way too far towards one or another - clearly, black people in the US have relatively little wealth because it was taken from them. Obviously, a strong family (not necessarily a married mother and father) is important for raising children. Obviously, good schools are a requirement for an educated population. Obviously, doing things like concentrating bus depots in black neighborhoods, especially when they ran on leaded fuel, will affect those neighborhoods. Those can all be, and are, true at once.

Mind you, when Obama was running/elected, I did see a fairly polarized response from the local black communities, especially from self-appointed leaders and spokesmen. They were all either in the "OMG BEST THING EVAR!!" or "OMG OREO!!!" camps; and not a lot of actual discussion of issues.

The big worry I heard was that Obama would be assassinated.

And once Obama won in Iowa, the black vote basically swung hard in his favor.

 

[angrysoba]

I've hilited the word that may have kept you from hearing it in your own circles.

Yet that word was the very thing at issue, as luchog says he gets to hear it from white, far-left acquantances.

Not black myself, but I get to hear a lot of my white far-left acquaintances pontificate about how a particular person isn't "black" enough, because said person is too far removed from the "violent because oppression" meme, or because they insisted that education and a stable family were critically important for their success.

I'm a white far-left person with a lot of white far-left acquaintances and have never heard any of them say a particular person isn't "black" enough for any reason.

You sure you don't have your left and right confused?

It doesn't surprise me. It's identity politics.

 

[hgc]

What? What'd I say? Something wrong?

 

[WildCat]

Some people go way too far towards one or another - clearly, black people in the US have relatively little wealth because it was taken from them. Obviously, a strong family (not necessarily a married mother and father) is important for raising children. Obviously, good schools are a requirement for an educated population. Obviously, doing things like concentrating bus depots in black neighborhoods, especially when they ran on leaded fuel, will affect those neighborhoods. Those can all be, and are, true at once.



The big worry I heard was that Obama would be assassinated.

And once Obama won in Iowa, the black vote basically swung hard in his favor.

If you're going to blather conspiracy theories at least make a token effort to back them up, otherwise you just come across as a loon.

 

[Spindrift]

It's common enough that Obama had to address it when he first ran for president: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/08/11/obama-enough-with-the-‘black-enough’-talk/

I've hilited the word that may have kept you from hearing it in your own circles.

What made you assume that I don't have non-white acquaintances? That would not be valid assumption. luchog was talking about his white acquaintances so I referenced mine.

 

[tyr_13]

If you're going to blather conspiracy theories at least make a token effort to back them up, otherwise you just come across as a loon.

Wait...what conspiracy theory? What am I missing?

Well, what am I missing here. The list of things I'm missing in general might be too much even for the new servers.

 

[epepke]

I'm a white far-left person with a lot of white far-left acquaintances and have never heard any of them say a particular person isn't "black" enough for any reason.

You sure you don't have your left and right confused?

I think he's right. The Cosby Show was widely criticized by left far-white people as not being representative, because the parents were professional and together and the kids weren't shooting each other all the time.

 

[Unabogie]

If you're going to blather conspiracy theories at least make a token effort to back them up, otherwise you just come across as a loon.

Wait...what conspiracy theory? What am I missing?

Well, what am I missing here. The list of things I'm missing in general might be too much even for the new servers.

You missed the perfect Triple Lutz of knee jerking. It should be an Olympic event.

 

[Unabogie]

I think he's right. The Cosby Show was widely criticized by left far-white people as not being representative, because the parents were professional and together and the kids weren't shooting each other all the time.

It was? Evidence of this?

 

[Foolmewunz]

By East Asians living on the West Coast, it's Twinkie.

Gonna have a confused minority crossover problem if a gay East Asian uses the term "Twinkie", I fear.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I see a lot of truth in what Barkley is saying and I think that he's noted for speaking his mind, even if he acknowledges that this isn't a conversation that necessarily needs to include white people.

As to "not black enough", it's a common statement (in one form or another) in black communities. I like the conservative members trying to put it down to limousine liberals. The criticisms I heard, from black people, of Cosby was that he had a funny show but that it had nothing to do with addressing the problems of the black community, other than a Pyrrhic victory for getting a milquetoast family sit-com in which the average milquetoast middle class family happened to have darker skin tones than other such shows.

In that same sense, a politico can be seen as "not black enough" if he/she grew up separated from the issues that blacks face on a daily basis. And that's why Obama was seen by many as "not black enough". That doesn't mean that he can't address or hasn't experienced being black. His skin color guarantees that he can. But having knowledge of dealing with killings on his front steps, of keeping his kids away from gangs, of trying to scrape by with a single parent for moral guidance and financial input, of lower quality schools and infrastructure, etc... As much as conservatives love to tag the guy as a pinko commie radical, he's a middle class (now upper-upper-middle class) black man with only second hand experience of those situations.

 

[Caper]

I like what Barkley said. But I don't think he got it completely right.

For starters, he says only the black community is like this. I'm sure that's not true. I know I hear much of the same from the Native community in Canada. That is Natives complaining about the lack of support in their communities when they excel in education (that's the context in which I heard it).... things like learning is for whites, ect.

To me. It's a human thing. People grasp onto whatever they can to explain their failures..... and will use it as an excuse to not even try.... That's everyone, not just blacks or natives.... I know a lot of white people that if they could use slavery as an excuse to not get out of bed in the morning they would.

Anyway, in this case (blacks) see other blacks rising out of poverty, they become jealous. They have long used a racist system to explain their failures..... the racist system was the excuse they needed to not study for the test... or to commit a crime. Seeing someone rise past the challenges provokes jealousy and anger and a need to try and bring the person down to their level.

That's not to say at all their grievances with historical and current wrongs are not valid... it's just that there is also a danger in slipping into victim mentality.

 

[Aepervius]

I've always liked Barkley. Now even more so:

"During a radio interview, the media personality said that he believed successful African-Americans are targeted by "brainwashed" and "uneducated" members of their community. "For some reason, we're brainwashed to think if you're not a thug or an idiot, you're not black enough," he said. "If you go to school, make good grades, speak intelligent and don't break the law, you're not a good black person. ... As a black person, we all go through it when you're successful."

Actually funnily enough the same was happenning in the mostly moslem community youth where I wasd living north of france. The one which were studying , *especially* the girls, were accused of being "sold", of betraying the community, and various insult. That was the youth, the stupid culture of gangs. But if you asked the parents naturally they were a totally different opinion, even supporting for the girls success.

Maybe I am wrong, but I always got the feeling that this was not about gang culture or whatever, but solely about unsucessful people wanting to drag the other down to their level. Pretty much jealousy or hatred for other sucess when they themselves failed. I remmember part of those guy cackling and enjoying the pain of other kids failing at exams for example. The fact that they were enjoying other failing was pretty much a good indicator on what it was all about.

 

[Flo]

I like what Barkley said. But I don't think he got it completely right.

For starters, he says only the black community is like this. I'm sure that's not true. [...]

To me. It's a human thing. People grasp onto whatever they can to explain their failures..... and will use it as an excuse to not even try.... That's everyone, not just blacks or natives.... I know a lot of white people that if they could use slavery as an excuse to not get out of bed in the morning they would.

Totally agree. I know a lot of people in France and Switzerland who will use any excuse to not even try ("the presence of too many immigrants in our schools explains how my little darling is getting such bad grades in his native language" )

Actually funnily enough the same was happenning in the mostly moslem community youth where I wasd living north of france. The one which were studying , *especially* the girls, were accused of being "sold", of betraying the community, and various insult. That was the youth, the stupid culture of gangs. But if you asked the parents naturally they were a totally different opinion, even supporting for the girls success.

Maybe I am wrong, but I always got the feeling that this was not about gang culture or whatever, but solely about unsucessful people wanting to drag the other down to their level. Pretty much jealousy or hatred for other sucess when they themselves failed. I remmember part of those guy cackling and enjoying the pain of other kids failing at exams for example. The fact that they were enjoying other failing was pretty much a good indicator on what it was all about.

Don't forget it is also about girls doing better than boys, oh the horror !

 

[luchog]

The one which were studying , *especially* the girls, were accused of being "sold", of betraying the community, and various insult.

"Sell-out/sold-out" is a fairly universal insult against anyone from a less privileged background who manages a notable degree of success; typically with the added complaint that they've "betrayed their roots".

Maybe I am wrong, but I always got the feeling that this was not about gang culture or whatever, but solely about unsucessful people wanting to drag the other down to their level. Pretty much jealousy or hatred for other sucess when they themselves failed.

And that's pretty much it right there. Though I would said it's not because of seeing someone else succeed where they've failed, but rather seeing someone else succeed where they haven't bothered to even try. Seeing all the excuses for their own lack of success invalidated by someone who succeeds despite such ostensible obstacles. Few things will generate more envy and hatred.