Proof of Immortality II

[godless dave]

FTFY = Fixed That For You

 

[Butter!]

Exactly.

Jabba has become so trapped in his own spherical argument that he doesn't realise that he's no longer communicating with anyone other than the dozen-or-so people in the entire Universe who understand Jabbanese.

Every one of whom disagrees with everything he says.

Your patience is astounding, Pharaoh.

Before this is all over, you'll probably be fluent whether you like it or no.

 

[Akhenaten]

Mojo,
- Note that A in the formula above is the hypothesis that selves are immortal.

We could flip them round since the numerical values are completely arbitrary. In that case you've just disproven your own hypothesis.

Again.

It's a safe bet that Jabba still doesn't understand that this was exactly the point of Mojo's rhetorical (to everyone else) question.

 

[Mojo]

Mojo,
- "~A" is the proposition that "A" is not correct. "A" is the proposition that each potential self has but one, finite, life to live at most.

Anyway, what has this got to do with the likelyhood that you currently exist? Even if there had been an infinite number of immortal souls wandering unprotected in deep space for the last 13.5 billion years waiting for a body to inhabit*, your existence would still require the same series of unlikely events as it would if your consciousness is a temporary result of your brain processes.




*The resulting flapping tendrils of guilt would explain a lot about the state of the space-time continuum, I suppose.

 

[Akhenaten]

Your patience is astounding, Pharaoh.

Before this is all over, you'll probably be fluent whether you like it or no.

The first 3,000 years are the hardest. After that it's pretty cruisy.

 

[Mojo]

Anyway, what has this got to do with the likelyhood that you currently exist? Even if there had been an infinite number of immortal souls wandering unprotected in deep space for the last 13.5 billion years waiting for a body to inhabit*, your existence would still require the same series of unlikely events as it would if your consciousness is a temporary result of your brain processes.

In fact, Jabba, the likelyhood of your particular "self" happening to get lucky and inhabit your body is a factor that needs to be taken into account in your "potential selves" scenario but not in the model in which your consciousness is simply the result of the processes of your brain. This means that your current existence in your scenario is less likely than it is in the scientific model by a factor of, er, whatever number of "potential selves" you are proposing.

 

[Akhenaten]

Hang on . . . I've just noticed something.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Mojo,
- "~A" is the proposition that "A" is not correct. "A" is the proposition that each potential self has but one, finite, life to live at most.

Good Morning, Mr. Savage!

I realize I am, at this point, shouting down a well. Perhaps some kind soul will quote this post; perhaps you will curtail your rudeness long enough to deign to read it.

If you define "A" , then the ONLY proper expression of "~A" is, "everything else".

There are myriad, even innumerable, ways for "A" to be wrong: if "A" is "vanilla", "~A" is not "chocolate", or "butter pecan", or even "chunky fish pickle-ripple with gravy"; "~A" is ANYTHING (and everything) that IS NOT "vanilla".

 

[John Jones]

Good Morning, Mr. Savage!

I realize I am, at this point, shouting down a well. Perhaps some kind soul will quote this post; perhaps you will curtail your rudeness long enough to deign to read it.

If you define "A" , then the ONLY proper expression of "~A" is, "everything else".

There are myriad, even innumerable, ways for "A" to be wrong: if "A" is "vanilla", "~A" is not "chocolate", or "butter pecan", or even "chunky fish pickle-ripple with gravy"; "~A" is ANYTHING (and everything) that IS NOT "vanilla".

There's your quote.

I was going to point this out myself, but what's the purpose of doing so?

 

[Akhenaten]

Good Morning, Mr. Savage!

I realize I am, at this point, shouting down a well. Perhaps some kind soul will quote this post; perhaps you will curtail your rudeness long enough to deign to read it.

If you define "A" , then the ONLY proper expression of "~A" is, "everything else".

There are myriad, even innumerable, ways for "A" to be wrong: if "A" is "vanilla", "~A" is not "chocolate", or "butter pecan", or even "chunky fish pickle-ripple with gravy"; "~A" is ANYTHING (and everything) that IS NOT "vanilla".

A kind soul I am indeed. Likely to be read by Jabba, not so much.

 

[Slowvehicle]

There's your quote.

I was going to point this out myself, but what's the purpose of doing so?

A kind soul I am indeed. Likely to be read by Jabba, not so much.

Ta ever so to both!

Hope springs eternal...

 

[carlitos]

Chunky fish pickle ripple with gravy is right in my wheelhouse

Just as an aside, Siri recognized all of the words above correctly. There really is a God

 

[Loss Leader]

Jabba -

All available evidence points to people being born, living and dying. All available evidence points to the mind being a process of the brain (neurosystem).

You have provided no evidence to dispute any of that.

Thus, as of now, the best explanation is that your fantasy is impossible.

Please cite evidence that is inconsistent with the current scientific understanding of material consciousness.

 

[Craig4]

I just skimmed through the thread. So pretty much all this is someone's inability to accept the reality of their own mortality?

 

[John Jones]

I just skimmed through the thread. So pretty much all this is someone's inability to accept the reality of their own mortality?

Pretty much.

 

[sackett]

Or even think through the alternative

I just skimmed through the thread. So pretty much all this is someone's inability to accept the reality of their own mortality?

It's been pointed out to Jabba that immortality would be a monstrous fate. Who would really and truly want to live FOREVER? For all of ETERNITY?

Even a ridiculous fantasy, if insisted on widely enough by the society you live in, can give you tremors of fear.

 

[Jabba]

- Anyway, you guys have helped me to better understand my own position -- but, I think it's time to move on.
- I'll try to write up my argument as succinctly as possible and present it to people who think that ~A is an actual possibility. I'll argue that the appropriate number for P(me|A) is 1/10⁸⁰! (rather than 1.00), because my current existence allows for (and actually suggests) another -- possibly better, more probable -- explanation than "A." I'll then argue that the other entries hardly matter with such a small number for P(me|A). If I actually get that far, I'll post the argument here.

 

[Akhenaten]

- Anyway, you guys have helped me to better understand my own position -

Which is . . . ?

- but, I think it's time to move on.

That's what the bosun on the Titanic said, although his decision was somewhat more timely than yours.

- I'll try to write up my argument as succinctly as possible and present it to people who think that ~A is an actual possibility. I'll argue that the appropriate number for P(me|A) is 1/10⁸⁰! (rather than 1.00), because my current existence allows for (and actually suggests) another -- possibly better, more probable -- explanation than "A." I'll then argue that the other entries hardly matter with such a small number for P(me|A).

In other words, you have no intention of moving on.

If I actually get that far, I'll post the argument here.

You already have.

 

[HighRiser]

You're nothing if not persistent, Jabba. Best wishes.

 

[Craig4]

- Anyway, you guys have helped me to better understand my own position -- but, I think it's time to move on.
- I'll try to write up my argument as succinctly as possible and present it to people who think that ~A is an actual possibility. I'll argue that the appropriate number for P(me|A) is 1/10⁸⁰! (rather than 1.00), because my current existence allows for (and actually suggests) another -- possibly better, more probable -- explanation than "A." I'll then argue that the other entries hardly matter with such a small number for P(me|A). If I actually get that far, I'll post the argument here.

That's nice. You're still going to die. One moment you'll exist and the next you won't. Not sure when it will happen but it will. The sum total of all you mental gymnastics will count for nothing. No matter how eloquently you explain A in all it's subtle beauty and virtue, you will cease to be. However, if this is the balm that eases the pain of that fact for you, feel free to continue. People have done far worse to distract themselves from the truth of their own mortality.