Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Samson]

How exactly am I punishing Raffaele or Amanda?

With respect Coulsdon, if Raffaele read your reply to Vibio, where you congratulated her on an excellent response to LJ , who pointed out that Raffaele was not withdrawing his alibi, but stating that he could not be certain she was home all night, certain being a term that implied logical impossibility of error, and that logical possibility I drew your attention to, it seems that you are coming down hard on Raffaele.
Bear in mind that he is another man's child in peril.
Not yours.
Not mine.

 

[anglolawyer]

Please provide an example of when an internet discussion site has changed the course of an ongoing judicial process.

This is the wrong question. Substitute 'public opinion' for 'internet discussion' (the latter being merely a sub-set of the former) and you may be getting somewhere.

 

[Diocletus]

You still use cheques!? That was an attempt at humour, right? Bless your heart for trying, well done!

I don't know what a cheque is. Sounds like it has something to do with barbeque.

Yes I occasionally use checks. I would gladly send one to the Kerchers if I thought they were actually victims of anything.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Unsolved Mysteries

This is the wrong question. Substitute 'public opinion' for 'internet discussion' (the latter being merely a sub-set of the former) and you may be getting somewhere.

Would Randall Dale Adams have been released if The Thin Blue Line had not been made? Patricia Stallings would not have been exonerated except for the fact that her case was featured on Unsolved Mysteries (a TV show) which a scientist happened to see. With respect to the Duke lacrosse case the discussion board Liestoppers, and the blog Durham in Wonderland were helpful in presenting a factual view of the case. Sixty Minutes also covered the case in late 2006 and in early 2007. Without their participation, the players might still have been exonerated (or might not have been), but their reputations would not have been rehabilitated IMO. Why CoulsdonUK refuses to acknowledge the positive role that public opinion can play in cases of wrongful accusation is another unsolved mystery.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

With respect Coulsdon, if Raffaele read your reply to Vibio, where you congratulated her on an excellent response to LJ , who pointed out that Raffaele was not withdrawing his alibi, but stating that he could not be certain she was home all night, certain being a term that implied logical impossibility of error, and that logical possibility I drew your attention to, it seems that you are coming down hard on Raffaele.
Bear in mind that he is another man's child in peril.
Not yours.
Not mine.

Sorry you lost me right after “if Raffaele read your reply….”

I don't know what a cheque is. Sounds like it has something to do with barbeque.

Yes I occasionally use checks. I would gladly send one to the Kerchers if I thought they were actually victims of anything.

There’s a surprise!

What you do with your money and time is really of no interest to me, I fail to understand why you or anyone else should care or have slightest interest in what I do with my money or time.

This is the wrong question. Substitute 'public opinion' for 'internet discussion' (the latter being merely a sub-set of the former) and you may be getting somewhere.

Okay, please provide an example of where public opinion changed the course of an ongoing judicial process involving a murder case.

 

[carbonjam72]

Please provide an example of when an internet discussion site has changed the course of an ongoing judicial process.

"Changed the course" is a harder case to identify. Contributed to a miscarriage of justice, you need look no further than this case as hand.

 

[RWVBWL]

Top Secret?

I was just reading the translated testimony of Marco Chiacchiera at the ballerina stalkers site and something caught my eye.

I've seen so many guilters say: "There's no way Amanda had a shower on November 2, just look at the photo of her."

[qimg]http://media.komonews.com/images/080517_amanda_knox.jpg[/qimg]

Chiacchiera confirms she did have a shower although it's a little strange why he doesn't want to say how he knows.

Here's the testimony. I've removed the bizarre commentary from pseudo lawyer/doctor "CardiolMD" after every Q&A.

MC: However the faeces were in which of the two bathrooms?
MaCh: Of the bathrooms. Me, if I take a shower in a bathroom where there are faeces, instinctively I flush the toilet, in short.
MC: Yes, but the faeces were in the other bathroom.
MaCh: Yes, yes, I understood. However, in short, in some way it comes instinctively, no?, to flush the toilet? The fact is that ….
GCM: Excuse me, do you know how many bathrooms there were in the house?
MaCh: Two.
GCM: Two bathrooms. Excuse me, please. Do you know that a shower was taken?
MaCh: Yes.
GCM: How do you know?
MaCh: I know because it is a thing that I cannot, I believe, report because it was ….
GCM: But you checked…?
MaCh: I am trying to be very very careful.

Any guesses why this is top secret and he doesn't want to say?

Hmmmm,
interesting find MichaelB.

My guess?
It involves Rudy Guede's crap.
Guede might have been inside the flat when Amanda came home in the morning.

The front door was wide open when she came home.
She saw feces in Filomena+Laura's bathroom toilet after she took her shower.
When she came back with Raff, they had fallen farther and she did not see them, causing her to wonder if someone had been in the house when she was there, IIRC

If the feces were over 12 hours old,
why would they, by then crusty, fall farther downward in the short time that Amanda was at Raffaele's after her shower? I've seen the crime scene video, that ain't a lotta ****.


Maybe Rudy Guede came back after leaving The Domus nightclub and slept downstairs on Stefano's bed, that bedspread of his is the only 1 that is not made, out of all the boyz beds whom lived downstairs.

Kind of similar to up stairs,
Meredith's is the only bed messed up too.
Heck, Stefano's bed is the only one that has blood on it. Meredith's also.

Connected or coincidence?


I'd really like to read a transcript of the 7 hour long 1st interrogation
http://web.archive.org/web/20080117...t.com/2007/12/theres-non-name-to-be-done.html
that Rudy Guede had with PM Mignini, Judge Matteini and others when he was returned to Italy.

Why has this not been released?
What Top Secrets are they hiding that Rudy told them over 7 hours?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

"Changed the course" is a harder case to identify. Contributed to a miscarriage of justice, you need look no further than this case as hand.

Miscarriage of justice or wrongful conviction; my point is that the process in Italy has not reached a definitive verdict, it is still ongoing.

 

[Diocletus]

Miscarriage of justice or wrongful conviction; my point is that the process in Italy has not reached a definitive verdict, it is still ongoing.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

 

[Diocletus]

I fail to understand why you or anyone else should care or have slightest interest in what I do with my money or time.

Who is it that you think cares?

 

[Diocletus]

There’s a surprise!.[/B][/I]

I ran it through my spellchequer and no luck.

 

[acbytesla]

Miscarriage of justice or wrongful conviction; my point is that the process in Italy has not reached a definitive verdict, it is still ongoing.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

Nice answer Diocletus. I have to wonder what is it like to go through life waiting for others to make a decision before you are able to take a position?

 

[acbytesla]

I do not know whether any of Meredith’s family attended Guede’s trial, given the fast track format there wouldn’t be much point. Think about any trial western trial involving murder that media reported on where the victim’s family didn’t attend trial, this is not unusual.

No, it is not unusual Coulsdon. I grant you that. But they aren't a necessary component of any trial. I also worry about the effect that victim's family has on the thinking of a jury. Does it create an effect that overly influences a jury to reach a guilty verdict?

I certainly can understand the desire of the family to observe but I don't believe taxpayers should foot that bill.

 

[Desert Fox]

Please provide an example of when an internet discussion site has changed the course of an ongoing judicial process.

The noise, the buzz as it were, of the West Memphis Three on the Internet went a long way to get Arkansas to let them go. It is not so much one site but the total of all the talk.

Now, I will state that when and if Italy convicts and asks for extradition of Ms Knox, I will write a physical letter to both the president and the secretary of state not to extradite Amanda.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Patricia Stallings case

Miscarriage of justice or wrongful conviction; my point is that the process in Italy has not reached a definitive verdict, it is still ongoing.

CoulsdonUK,

Distinguishing between cases that have versus have not reached a definitive verdict is not simple to do, and serves little purpose IMO. However, Patricia Stallings had not exhausted all of her appeals, if I am not mistaken. In any case, you have now been provided with several examples where public interest did make a difference. This is a separate issue from your cheerleading of Vibio's foolishness, BTW.

 

[carbonjam72]

Put it all on Miggy's tab

No, it is not unusual Coulsdon. I grant you that. But they aren't a necessary component of any trial. I also worry about the effect that victim's family has on the thinking of a jury. Does it create an effect that overly influences a jury to reach a guilty verdict?

I certainly can understand the desire of the family to observe but I don't believe taxpayers should foot that bill.

It's also troubling that civil parties participate in the criminal trials in Italy. In this case, the Kercher's civil attorney Maresca joined with the prosecution in opposing defense requests to test potentially exculpatory evidence. And there can be little doubt that financially speaking, it's better to have two more young people and their families to collect a civil judgement from, rather than the sole murderer, the indigent Guede.

The fact that Amanda and Raf are actually innocent hasn't seemed to dampen the civil parties' enthusiasm for people to pay for their loss.

I don't think any useful purpose would be served by having the state facilitate the fleecing of these innocent defendants and their already grievously harmed families.

This "on-going" court process never should have been launched against Amanda and Raf. its racked up several million euros in legal bills, and already served 4 years unjustly in prison, and the threat of decades more. Over nothing. One mad prosecutor's need to deflect attention from his own failings.

Let Mignini pay the civil judgement. His negligence in failing to stop, and then helping to free Guede from Milan, did after all contribute decisively to Ms Kercher losing her life. Put it all on Miggy's tab.

 

[kwill]

CoulsdonUK,
This is a separate issue from your cheerleading of Vibio's foolishness, BTW.

Indeed. I was amused to see how quickly C.UK skittered away from that revelation. Possibly s/he thought it was private? What a shame, after taking so much trouble to appear to be neutral.

On another note, terrific story on the front page of the Seattle Times this morning. A young man who was wrongfully convicted of assault & robbery on the strength of witness testimony has been exonerated after spending 10 years in prison.

This happens a lot (as we know), but the news is that under a new law in Washington state, he's entitled to $50,000 for every year of imprisonment, tax free. Also his tuition will be waived at certain universities in this state.

It was an Innocence Project case that didn't involve DNA, by the way, and it was his wife who convinced them to investigate.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

CoulsdonUK,
Distinguishing between cases that have versus have not reached a definitive verdict is not simple to do, and serves little purpose IMO. However, Patricia Stallings had not exhausted all of her appeals, if I am not mistaken. In any case, you have now been provided with several examples where public interest did make a difference. This is a separate issue from your cheerleading of Vibio's foolishness, BTW.

Chris_Halkides

I might have missed the posts you are referring too. Everything I have seen has been in the context of a verdicts being overturned as opposed a trial process being stopped by public opinion. As for the Stallings case I don’t think it is comparable to this case i.e. a brutal murder.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

No, it is not unusual Coulsdon. I grant you that. But they aren't a necessary component of any trial. I also worry about the effect that victim's family has on the thinking of a jury. Does it create an effect that overly influences a jury to reach a guilty verdict?

I certainly can understand the desire of the family to observe but I don't believe taxpayers should foot that bill.

I thought all US states allowed victim impact statements when are they presented in a trial before or after a verdict? In addition, aren’t victim’s families views part of the US parole process, inasmuch as their opinions are considered?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Possibly s/he thought it was private? What a shame, after taking so much trouble to appear to be neutral.
On another note, terrific story on the front page of the Seattle Times this morning. A young man who was wrongfully convicted of assault & robbery on the strength of witness testimony has been exonerated after spending 10 years in prison.

This happens a lot (as we know), but the news is that under a new law in Washington state, he's entitled to $50,000 for every year of imprisonment, tax free. Also his tuition will be waived at certain universities in this state.

It was an Innocence Project case that didn't involve DNA, by the way, and it was his wife who convinced them to investigate.

Neutral! My position is and always has been it is for the Italian justice system to try this case in accordance with its own laws, if the process ended with Raffaele and Amanda being acquitted, so be it. It’s not my fault that a number of people here seem to have decided they are as good as convicted.