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Proof of Immortality II

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- in the following attempt at a syllogism, Numbers 1, 2 and 3 are the best I can do at expressing why I think that I am special, or that I should be set apart, and deserve such a small likelihood of existing. For now, that's probably the best that I can do.

1. I, in one form or the other (thing, process or illusion), am the only thing that I know exists.
2. Also, I am the only eyes on the universe that I have.
3. Consequently, if I never existed it would be as if nothing ever existed...

None of this overcomes the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy

4. Given A, the likelihood of me ever existing is something like 1/1080!.
5. Whereas, the prior probability of A being incorrect is something like 1%, or better.

Not that it matters, but where did that 1% number come from? (For why it doesn't matter, see below).


6. So, in the Bayesian formula, the likelihood of me ever existing, given A, is much smaller than the prior probability of A being incorrect.

I don't think those are the two numbers you compare in a Bayesian formula.


7. In other words, I am either unimaginably lucky or A is incorrect.

How do you express "unimaginably" mathematically?
 
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- in the following attempt at a syllogism, Numbers 1, 2 and 3 are the best I can do at expressing why I think that I am special, or that I should be set apart, and deserve such a small likelihood of existing. For now, that's probably the best that I can do.

This entire post is irrelevant, since the end result is still the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. Whether or not the odds against your existence are extremely high, one result had to come up. You're shooting a barn door and then painting a bullseye over the one spot you actually hit.

Your probability "analysis" is also complete and utter nonsense, but I'll leave that to others to go over.

Again.
 
- out there somewhere.
- My claim: there must be a bucket of infinitely divisible consciousness...

When did you change your mind about that?

You said there was NOT a "pool of souls"; how does this new claim differ?

...that we conscious beings all come from. That there are many more of us now than there used to be, just means that more than one of us was Napoleon.
- I understand that this sounds crazy, but like Sherlock Holmes used to say...

You may only quote ACD with any pretense of honesty when you use a defensible definition of "impossible"...which you have not.
 
- in the following attempt at a syllogism, Numbers 1, 2 and 3 are the best I can do at expressing why I think that I am special, or that I should be set apart, and deserve such a small likelihood of existing. For now, that's probably the best that I can do.

1. I, in one form or the other (thing, process or illusion), am the only thing that I know exists.
2. Also, I am the only eyes on the universe that I have.
3. Consequently, if I never existed it would be as if nothing ever existed...


In what way does this make you different from every other actual or potential person?
 
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I may be one of the immortals! Doomed to be reincarnated endlessly on this Earth to battle the evil forces (vampires? werewolves? Daleks?). I may be doomed to watch the not special, other people who are my friends grow old and die while I live forever unless someone releases me from this curse.

But then, that is not the way to bet, is it?

...hutts...
 
4. Given A, the likelihood of me ever existing is something like 1/1080!.
5. Whereas, the prior probability of A being incorrect is something like 1%, or better.
6. So, in the Bayesian formula, the likelihood of me ever existing, given A, is much smaller than the prior probability of A being incorrect.
7. In other words, I am either unimaginably lucky or A is incorrect.

8. In still other words, given me, it is much more probable that A is incorrect then that A is correct


No. If A is very improbable given B, it does not follow that B is very improbable given A.
 
- in the following attempt at a syllogism, Numbers 1, 2 and 3 are the best I can do at expressing why I think that I am special, or that I should be set apart, and deserve such a small likelihood of existing. For now, that's probably the best that I can do.

1. I, in one form or the other (thing, process or illusion), am the only thing that I know exists.
2. Also, I am the only eyes on the universe that I have.
3. Consequently, if I never existed it would be as if nothing ever existed...

You know, I think exactly the same things. So are there at least two of us who are special. Anyone else think that too?
 
4. Given A, the likelihood of me ever existing is something like 1/1080!.
5. Whereas, the prior probability of A being incorrect is something like 1%, or better.
6. So, in the Bayesian formula, the likelihood of me ever existing, given A, is much smaller than the prior probability of A being incorrect.
7. In other words, I am either unimaginably lucky or A is incorrect.

8. In still other words, given me, it is much more probable that A is incorrect then that A is correct

4. Given the likelihood of me ever existing, given my own theory of a bucket of infinite souls, is something like 1/infinity (using Jabba's own thoughts on infinity and math)
5, Whereas, the prior probability of my theory being incorrect is something like 1.
6, So in the Bayesian formulat, the likelihood of me ever existing, given my theory, is much smaller that the prior probability of my theory being being incorrect.
7. In other words, I am either truly unimaginably lucky or my theory is incorrect.
8. In still other words, given me, it is much more probable that my theory is incorrect then that my theory is correct

Perhaps Jabba can explain if and where I went wrong? Otherwise I assume he agrees with my use of his own logic.
By the way, even writing that fit of illogic may have damaged by computer.

Or then again, he can simply repeat his claim as if he never saw this post.
 
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1. I, in one form or the other (thing, process or illusion), am the only thing that I know exists.
2. Also, I am the only eyes on the universe that I have.
3. Consequently, if I never existed it would be as if nothing ever existed...


Jabba -

For the fourth or fifth time: Are you saying that your proof only applies to you from your perspective?

Or are you saying that I, from my perspective, should accept your proof as well?


Each of us exists in his/her own bubble of knowledge. For each of us, this bubble is the entire universe. So every person's experience is coextensive with that person's universe. Are you saying that your experience should color my view of my universe?
 
Jabba -

For the fourth or fifth time: Are you saying that your proof only applies to you from your perspective?

Or are you saying that I, from my perspective, should accept your proof as well?


Each of us exists in his/her own bubble of knowledge. For each of us, this bubble is the entire universe. So every person's experience is coextensive with that person's universe. Are you saying that your experience should color my view of my universe?

Solipsism rules, baby!!!

Oh, and Jabba: how about responding to any of the myriad posts that explain why your position is wrong?
 
- in the following attempt at a syllogism, Numbers 1, 2 and 3 are the best I can do at expressing why I think that I am special, or that I should be set apart, and deserve such a small likelihood of existing. For now, that's probably the best that I can do.

1. I, in one form or the other (thing, process or illusion), am the only thing that I know exists.
Solopsism for the win! If everything about you is an illusion, maybe you are also an illusion to yourself. Or maybe you are wrong in thinking that you can only know the existence of yourself.
2. Also, I am the only eyes on the universe that I have.
Correct, but irrelevant.
3. Consequently, if I never existed it would be as if nothing ever existed...
No. Incorrect, and irrelevant. If there was never any you to experience the universe, then the only thing you can conclude from this is that there was never any you.

Given your non-existence, there might or might not be a universe. The two existences of "you" and the "universe" are connected in that your existence requires a universe, but the converse - that the universe requires you - is false.

The universe is not consequent or dependent on your existence. If humans had never evolved to have this conversation, that would not impact on the likelihood that the universe would exist or not.

4. Given A, the likelihood of me ever existing is something like 1/1080!.
If you insist.
5. Whereas, the prior probability of A being incorrect is something like 1%, or better.
Made up number?
6. So, in the Bayesian formula, the likelihood of me ever existing, given A, is much smaller than the prior probability of A being incorrect.
And also not in the Bayesian formula, if your numbers are to be believed. Just taking your raw numbers, your existence is less likely than the likelihood that one specific part of the 'scientific model' is incorrect.
7. In other words, I am either unimaginably lucky or A is incorrect.
No. In the first place, you are not comparing like with like. In the second place, this is a false dichotomy as there are many other choices. The most likely one by far, assuming your many prior assumptions are correct, is that "you" are incredibly lucky AND A is correct.

"Your existence" and the "accuracy of the scientific model" are not mutually exclusive, so it does not come down to a choice between one or the other. This is the major mistake you have made throughout this thread.

8. In still other words, given me, it is much more probable that A is incorrect then that A is correct
No.

Consider this analogy:

The hypothesis A is one small, specific part of the 'scientific model' (the scientific model which most people call observable reality). Your A was that we (humans, t-rexes and ants, so far) have one finite life. Your A only looks at the numbers of lives which are lived by organisms which already exist - not at the likelihood of any particular organism's existence.

My A is that egg proteins are irreversibly denatured by heat. It's one small part of observable reality, and it doesn't look at the likelihood of chicken eggs existing or being in my pantry.

Both your A and my A fit with all observable reality, and you suggest that the likelihood of your A being correct is 99%. I will accept this number arguendo, and assign the same number to my A.

You claim that given A, the likelihood of your existence [as measured prior to your existence] is 1/1080!

My claim is that given A, the likelihood of my existing and having coddled eggs for breakfast today is even smaller than 1/1080! This number is made up of the unlikelihood that I would ever exist given all the things that had to happen to produce me, that I would be alive at this time, that I enjoy coddled eggs, and that I chose to have them (instead of any other breakfast food such as toast, scrambled eggs or even bacon) for breakfast today. Teeny tiny likelihood, way smaller than the likelihood of your or my existence alone.

By your "logic", if you exist then a very unlikely event has happened, and you seem to think this means the part of observable reality which has to do with how many lives "we" will have once we exist is actually wrong.

Also by your "logic", if I had coddled eggs for breakfast this morning (and I did) then this is so unimaginably unlikely then this means the part of observable reality which has to do with heat irreversibly denaturing egg proteins is actually wrong.

But that "logical" step would be wrong, because me having coddled eggs for breakfast is not a competing hypothesis with A, so whether or not I have eggs for breakfast has no bearing on whether heating actually does irreversibly denature egg proteins.

Where you keep going wrong is that your existence is not a competing hypothesis with A, so your existence has no bearing on whether A is correct.

Just because one very unlikely event has happened, this does not mean that a part of observable reality which is only tangentially connected with that event, and on which the event is not dependent is wrong.
 
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If all that ^^ is TLDR, then the short version is:

Jabba claims the likelihood of his existence given A is very small, because of all the things which had to happen in order for the organism with his precise DNA to be born.

What he has not realised or not taken into account is that the likelihood of his existence given ~A is at most the same very small likelihood. Given the multitude of possibilities included in ~A, the likelihood of a particular person's existence given ~A is probably even smaller than the likelihood of their existence given A.
 
Jabba said:
4. Given A, the likelihood of me ever existing is something like 1/1080!.
5. Whereas, the prior probability of A being incorrect is something like 1%, or better.
6. So, in the Bayesian formula, the likelihood of me ever existing, given A, is much smaller than the prior probability of A being incorrect.
7. In other words, I am either unimaginably lucky or A is incorrect.

8. In still other words, given me, it is much more probable that A is incorrect then that A is correct


No. If A is very improbable given B, it does not follow that B is very improbable given A.


To put this another way, Jabba, here's an example:

1. A is the hypothesis that a particular six-sided die produces a random result.
2. If A is correct, the odds of it producing a particular number is one in six.
3. You throw the die, it comes up as a three.
4. You then conclude that the odds of A being correct are one in six.

Do you see the non-sequitur there?
 
In what way does this make you different from every other actual or potential person?

- It doesn't. We are all the same in this regard. This sets us apart from all non-conscious things.
 
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