DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Still doesn't change the fact the "explosion" they witnessed was the towers collapsing. None of your tap dancing can change the time-line.
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Still doesn't change the fact the "explosion" they witnessed was the towers collapsing. None of your tap dancing can change the time-line.
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Just a quick question; Did The NIST "massage" that bit of information too or do they only do that with the stuff you don't like?
It also goes without saying that WTC2 (and WTC1 for that matter)was long gone by the time Jennings and Hess made it back to the 8th floor.
I'll get right on proving that negative.
Compared to 3 versions of the Jennings OCT.
I personally like the 3rd version where Mr. Jennings has himself "Jumping landings" down the stairs. Truthers should also embrace that one to; that would explain how the 6th floor landing collapsed...
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Gamolon
Master Poster
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- 2,702
So I guess Jennings changed his story to become more inline with the conspiracy theorists?
In his television interview right after being rescued (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LO5V2CJpzI), he states the following:
In a later interview, he claims they made it to the 6th floor, there was an explosion, the landing they were standing on gave way, he had to climb back up and then walk to the 8th floor. Why the difference between the two interviews?Barry Jennings said:
As far as your claim that Barry broke more than one window, the quote is from the same video linked above.
He clearly states that he broke ONE WINDOW.Barry Jennings said:
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Funny, in sober and calm reflection he was unequivocal in "no explosion".
But if you prefer the adrenaline fueled characterizations of a man who just faced his own death and survived,,,,,,,
Gamolon
Master Poster
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In the video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFuWlLP0jz8
Is this Hess calling out at :23? I'm trying to figure out what is being said.
Something about being trapped with two other people and that they went to the 44th floor and the building was partially collapsing again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFuWlLP0jz8
Is this Hess calling out at :23? I'm trying to figure out what is being said.
Something about being trapped with two other people and that they went to the 44th floor and the building was partially collapsing again?
Miragememories
Banned
Mr. Jennings said:
Lied about what?
At both of those times (tower collapses) he said he was in the NE corner office communicating with rescuers down below on the street.
Obviously he could not see the towers from that location and his first awareness came from the unexpected fleeing of the people below.
This does mean that he spent the whole hour and a half confined to that spot.
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The part was bolded:
[QUOTE]When they started running the first tower was coming down. I had no way of knowing that.[/QUOTE]
So, you changed your point of view? Earlier you stated the following:
Miragememories
Banned
That NIST statement was supported by empirical evidence.
That is opinion and not fact.
Mr. Jennings said:
We know Mr. Jennings walked roughly halfway to the south side of WTC7 based on the location of the east side window he broke.
It would be impossible to look south and not see the twin towers looming in the near distance.
I'll get right on proving that negative.
As I said, and the evidence shows, Mr. Jennings did not confine himself to the NE corner office.
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NoahFence
Banned
1stClassAlan
Thinker
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I know this stuff is really important to some guys on here who love arguing the nitty-gritty but really......do you actually attach such pure gospel, scout's honour, cross my heart and hope to die, on my mother's grave type fides to the statements from anyone who has been in deeply traumatising circumstances such as happened on 911?
The average person does not consider every word they utter as if it was being said in front of a Grand Jury - they want to tell you what they saw - but end up telling what they like to remember which might not be the same thing.
I like Shakespeare - even if you don't - let me tell you, he has a quotation for every scenario! In Henry V, the King is looking out at the field which will be Agincourt the following day - "yonder flags mark out the distance to the French my liege" says an eager lord. "Who has measured the ground?" asks King Henry. Meaning can those flags be trusted, after all it was dangerous work to plant them under fear of a hail of arrows if you were seen. Luckily for Henry, his guy was brave and competant - this can't be said of everyone even if they don't have political axes to grind.
On the grounds of correctness - I do wish that everyone didn't harp on so much about "explosions" on 911 - there weren't any. An explosion must produce a percussion wave to qualify as one - take a look at video of Fukoshima nuclear plant after the tsunami - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3_ZRO5oATk that's what I call an explosion! Luckily only hydrogen detonating and not the reactor. Now, review 911 - did anyone see a wave or waves propagating away from WTC? No? Me neither. All of the noises heard, including the aircraft strikes were merely large bangs and nowhere near proper explosions.
The average person does not consider every word they utter as if it was being said in front of a Grand Jury - they want to tell you what they saw - but end up telling what they like to remember which might not be the same thing.
I like Shakespeare - even if you don't - let me tell you, he has a quotation for every scenario! In Henry V, the King is looking out at the field which will be Agincourt the following day - "yonder flags mark out the distance to the French my liege" says an eager lord. "Who has measured the ground?" asks King Henry. Meaning can those flags be trusted, after all it was dangerous work to plant them under fear of a hail of arrows if you were seen. Luckily for Henry, his guy was brave and competant - this can't be said of everyone even if they don't have political axes to grind.
On the grounds of correctness - I do wish that everyone didn't harp on so much about "explosions" on 911 - there weren't any. An explosion must produce a percussion wave to qualify as one - take a look at video of Fukoshima nuclear plant after the tsunami - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3_ZRO5oATk that's what I call an explosion! Luckily only hydrogen detonating and not the reactor. Now, review 911 - did anyone see a wave or waves propagating away from WTC? No? Me neither. All of the noises heard, including the aircraft strikes were merely large bangs and nowhere near proper explosions.
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jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
He NEVER states that he went to any other window. He never states that he saw either tower from a WTC 7 window , either standing or collapsing , or collapsed. By your timeline, for an hour and a half and especially for the thirty minutes between collapses he characterizes what he was doing by saying absolutely nothing about what he was doing. 90 minutes and he talks about breaking a window and seeing FFs come and go twice. That's the Reader's Digest Condenscened version for sure.
More likely the south tower collapsed as they were just starting their way down the stairs, thirty minutes later they were almost down when the north tower fell, the western stairwell suffered damage when a chunk of the SW corner was gouged out by WTC 1 debris. The stairwell filled with dust and smoke. They made their way to the 8th floor and travelled away from the dust and smoke to the NE corner, having possibly tried the western stairs only to find those too filled with dust and smoke.
They broke window on the NE corner and STAYED there especially after FFs first saw them there. THE first rule about being rescued is once rescuers know where you are you DO NOT LEAVE THAT LOCATION. That applies in high rise rescue as well as being lost in the forest.
There were multiple fears about further collapses and other issues that could cause FFs to leave the area for a while then return. In fact one of the concerns was of collapse of WTC 7. Yes, that was concern about the bulge on the SW side but over the radios and passed along the chain of info dispersion that would be simply something like "danger of collapse in WTC 7".
There was a recounting of events from a WTC 7 security man in the south side lobby and he described how the lobby filled with dust and smoke upon the collapse of WTC 2. There's no reason to expect that the stairwells lower in the building didn't do the same. That's backed up with Hess saying that at the time they could go no further on the stairs that the stairwell filled with more smoke, to the point of being chokingly thick. If there was dust/smoke in the stairwell before they could go no further in the stairs, what caused it? The fires in WTC 1 & 2, 500+ feet away and 800 feet up in the air?
As for the FFs leaving and coming back: my summer spent fighting forest fires we had radios and would be on a fireline with hoses and when a water bomber was incoming the bird-dog aircraft would warn ground crews and give the location of the drop BUT every ground crew would then pull back 50-60 feet until the aircraft dropped its load, then we'd return. No one wanted to rely on the spotter being 100% accurate where the several tons of water was coming down. If I were standing next to WTC 7 and even if the warning came out that there was a possible collapse about to occur on the south side, I'd probably consider prudence the better part of valour (especially knowing that hundreds of fellow fire fighters were dead and missing already) and pull back for a few minutes and get more info rather than simply rely on the notice that hundreds of tons of debris might, maybe fall probably only on the other side of the building.
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jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
No argument from me on any of that Allan.
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Yeah, I noticed that too. Must have found a glass cutter laying about somewhere.
Miragememories
Banned
You are unbelievable jaydee.
Do you bother to read what you write?
I expect that next you will go back to rabidly arguing they were at the NW corner again.
The man was answering questions. Not giving a speech.
He was breaking windows so he could call down to the street for help.
Mr. Jennings was obviously at the other window when he broke it.
Or do you think he tossed the fire extinguisher from the NE corner?
From his interview, this observation was made soon after their arrival on the 8th floor.
Midway across the floor placed him in a good location to look and see whether WTC1 and WTC2 were still standing.
Is it really necessary for him to have said how he used his eyes in order to validate what he saw?
And now you complain about the shape of the window break...that line of argument is too pathetic for words.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Why is it un-necessary for his time-line to match up with known events. You could shut me up by posting one that was even plausible, you won't.
Jennings never said, that he saw WTC 1 or WTC 2 collapse; I may remind you of that fact:
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
Yes, since he said he didn't see it. You specifically chose this witness above all the others to support your fantasy of controlled demolition. He is your only witness to an "explosion" within WTC 7, and you have beaten his drum until it's worn impossibly thin. Several people have noticed important inconsistencies in his testimony, disparities between his and the testimony of similarly situated witnesses, and instances where his testimony does not match known facts.
If this is to be your star witness, and it is undermined in such a way, it is your responsibility and yours alone to attempt to rehabilitate him. You're purposely arguing a minority interpretation of 9/11, purposely setting it up to be the earth-shattering alternative to what nearly everyone believes, including all the relevant experts, nearly all the witnesses, and a vast amount of circumstantial and physical evidence. You get no quarter. Since this witness is the kingpin of your claims, you don't get to handwave away the problems with the testimony.
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