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Michael Brown Shooting

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Skeptic Tank said:
Any reason you can think of to not view it as DOJ asking local officials to violate law (FOIA) because Holder valued racial politics and loyalties over the truth, the law, and transparency?
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I think you don't know how an FOIA request works. Anything someone was trying to pry loose with that would take months (if not years) to get released.

There are legitimate reasons for not releasing information. There wasn't any valid reason to release the video of the incident at the store when it was released. Only as an attempt to influence the narrative of the shooting in advance of the investigation.

There was absolutely no legal reason that they had to do so at that time. Even in Florida, with the most Draconian Sunshine Laws in the country, the police can withhold anything that is part of an ongoing investigation, which the store incident certainly was.

That's how I'm inclined to view it.
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Why am I not surprised.

I believe Obama claimed this would be the most transparent administration ever, but I guess that takes a back seat when Holder wants to maintain a narrative which paints a black person in a better light.

<snip>
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No matter how much you might want it to, this has nothing at all to do with Obama.

That's the kind of comment that discredits everything else you have to say.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You seem to be purposefully avoiding the most obvious angle, Brown's head is down, Wilson shoots from higher than Brown and the shot goes into Brown's head at the apex with the trajectory toward the face.

Why is that?
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Because that's NOT what Dr. Baden said happened. Like I said above, I based my latest diagram on the latest interview I saw with him. Not the not a Dr. who assisted him who was on HLN with a Hobbycraft skull, talking to a mind bogglingly annoying lady who sort of came off as that "Aunt" you had as a kid, who wasn't really your aunt, but they called her that anyway, who always smelled like cigarettes, wore too much lipstick, and always wanted you to give her a kiss, that you didn't want to give a kiss to, but your parents made you anyway.
That's why, like it or not.

:D
 
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Aepervius said:
AGAIN, the video of the robbery had nothing to do with the shooting. Thery tacked it on, and a FOIA would not have dredged up the video so directly. It was immediately put forth as a justification of the shooting "see this thug he did not earn to die" (and after watching the video this did not earn the death penalty IMHO).



OOKKKKAY...... I think the conversation is over. 1 last thing before i leave you to your "sterling" rambling.



You seem to imply that because he might have been a criminal that justify any shooting no matter whether wilson knew about the detail or not or no matter how the event happened that day tells quite a lot more about you , than it does about the situation.

Fact is, they could simply have released from the start a statement from wilson telling "he attacked me punched me and refused to surrender I had to act as he seemed to be a violent criminal on its way to make more crime" or something similar would have been better than what seems to be character assassination by releasing a video that the office could not have seen as if it justified the killing.

No. What I put in quote and seem to be the official version now, is enough for any FOIA to justify firing at brown. The video on the other hand was not for that time.

As for "precious feeling" I hope you are not and will never be in law enforcement. Because obviously you have not the slightiest clue on how to handle a crowd, riot, and what you would do would almost certainly expand the violence. ETA: the term you are apparently sorely missing from your vocabulary is : de-escalation. look it up.
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Actually, the police did say " from the start " that officer Wilson was attacked by Mr. Brown, and the shooting was an end result of that encounter.
 
quadraginta said:
I think you don't know how an FOIA request works. Anything someone was trying to pry loose with that would take months (if not years) to get released.

There are legitimate reasons for not releasing information. There wasn't any valid reason to release the video of the incident at the store when it was released. Only as an attempt to influence the narrative of the shooting in advance of the investigation.

There was absolutely no legal reason that they had to do so at that time. Even in Florida, with the most Draconian Sunshine Laws in the country, the police can withhold anything that is part of an ongoing investigation, which the store incident certainly was.
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The investigation into the robbery was complete according to police, and it was considered unrelated to the shooting investigation.

Info always tends to come out more rapidly, more piecemeal, and via leaks when there is intense public and media interest. The 7-11 video of Trayvon came out pretty fast, but since he paid for his items nobody complained.

In many cases, local news will have surveillance footage of robberies on TV the very same day the robbery occurred.

The only reason people are mad about this release is that it harmed their narrative, and/or their ability to convert sympathy and anger into dollars.

Perhaps the moral of the story is for the national media to let local matters run their course and the investigations take their time and not infuse a lot of outside pressure which can taint that process. And for citizens to wait for investigative findings before they get their loot on.

quadraginta said:
No matter how much you might want it to, this has nothing at all to do with Obama.

That's the kind of comment that discredits everything else you have to say.
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I talked up Obama from 2004 to 2012, donated, caucused, and voted for him. I talked others into voting for him. I've come by my current, negative feelings about him honestly and have earned the right to criticize him.

I pointed out a promise he made about his administration, and Eric Holder is part if that administration. Trying to keep that video under wraps when the officials in charge of releasing it are planning to do so, is at odds with that transparency ideal.
 
pakeha said:
The link I provided would give you some idea of that, actually.
Now, about your assertion Brown had no criminal record.
I asked if juvenile records were sealed and I haven't seen a reply to that yet. I may have missed your answer, of course.
How do you know Brown had no record?
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http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/27/lawsuit-filed-for-alleged-michael-brown-juvenile-records/

A lawsuit has been filed seeking the release of any juvenile records that might exist on the central figure in the Ferguson deadly shooting case.
 
Mike! said:
If memory serves, at the original autopsy press conference, they mentioned abrasions on his face that showed he was moving forward when he fell.
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Brown collapsing face first onto the street would leave abrasions on his face. A charging 300 pound guy collapsing face first into the pavement is going to do a lot of damage to his face.

There should also be other indications of his forward momentum. Damage or tears in clothing, abrasions on any exposed skin that hit the pavement. Blood smears and streaks from the body sliding.
 
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