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Atheists who don't hate religion

quadraginta said:
This is the crux of the matter.

Taken in isolation religions are just collections of myths, folk tales, and oral histories, mostly used as morality plays, which have become popular enough to gain some cache of respectability with some group or another.

This is fine, until their beliefs encroach on my life.

By way of example,if you live in a state where you can't buy liquor on Sunday then religion is encroaching on your life. Someone always comes back with "Well, can't you get by for one day?", but that misses the point. (And I don't even drink anymore.) Religious sensibilities are being forced on people who do not share them.The examples are so common that there's a name just for them. "Blue Laws". I'm old enough to remember when only a handful of certain businesses were allowed to open on Sunday in some places. It isn't as bad as it used to be, but any at all is too much.

The even darker side of religion is its ability to justify the most heinous behavior by invoking "faith".

I used to think that I could distinguish between the effects of religion and the effects of churches, which typify the use of religion to control peoples' behavior. But more and more I am convinced that the distinction is one without a difference, as it seems that any (maybe even every) religion gets misused when it gains enough supporters.
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Yes, that is a part of the problem with religion. Some if not most religious people turn it into Objective Authority. But you don't have to be religious to do that.
 
Thank you JESUS! :cool:



quadraginta said:
Do you think a Constitutional Amendment banning alcohol would have passed if not for the churches?
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Of course, but at the same time, some of those laws are just still on the books because no one has taken the time to get rid of them. It doesn't mean in the here and now people are advocating for them based on religious influence.

There are a lot of old laws still on the books.

http://justsomething.co/the-22-most-ridiculous-us-laws-still-in-effect-today-2/
 
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Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Myriad
 
I guess it also depends on where you live.
I do not hate religion, but in the Netherlands all the charity benefits you mention are far less common. Most of that is done by secular organizations, so it's not like you NEED religion for charity or kindness.
What I DO dislike is the way some religious groups try to force their worldview on other people.
The simpelst example from my country is sunday openings for stores. The christian parties are strongly opposed because their religion forbids this and work very hard to block any legislation that would allow shops to chose their own opening times.
 
I have no problem with religion when it isn't being used as a political power tool. However, that's what it currently is in the USA. It's sort of weird, since the first amendment to our constitution was designed to prevent this sort of thing. Technically, it's primarily Evangelists I have a problem with... some of the quieter, less political forms of religion I'm a little more okay with.

Unfortunately, we have rather ignorant people going to churches that officially accept evolution agreeing with the science deniers because of the Evangelists using the term "Christian" broadly when not all sects of the religion actually agree with their argument... that's a huge part of the problem here. Then you've got the idiot loyalists that automatically take your side if you just say the word "Jesus" enough times, even if the thing in question is completely irrelevant to the religion itself.

So yeah... it's a very particular sect that is causing most of the problems. The other, less viral forms don't dare openly and publicly reject a lot of these notions because that may lose them some adherents. The truth of the matter is that even people sitting next to each other in church don't follow exactly the same religion in terms of what they actually believe and can articulate, and most of the less zealous churches don't want to take sides on any such matter.

When it comes right down to it, I'm not even sure that most believers even really know what they believe until someone tells them. It's just a general good ol' boys mob waiting to be swayed by its loudest and/or most persuasive member at any given moment. That makes it rather dangerous when the wrong leader steps forward.
 
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Oh yeah, the whole no booze for sale on Sunday thing? In South Africa, totally religious - a hangover from the Apartheid era.
 
Okay, what do most religious people have in common? They in practice claim Objective Authority over your life, because they know with Truth!!!

So are religious people the only ones to who do that; i.e. claim with Truth Objective Authority?
If not, then I suggest the problem is not that they are religious, but they as ethical objectivists claim with Truth Objective Authority over morality, ethics and meta-ethics and thus claim Authority over you.

So now I will stop, because it is philosophy as apparently science can't do normative moral and ethical claims and this will derail into philosophy.
 
Back in the day, the campus crusade for Christ used to annoy the living piss out of me. At first when they approached I'd engage them, then, after the first dozen or so times, I really began to hate their particular form of christianity.

"Jesus Christ, can't you see I'm studying here?"

When it gets pushy, religion sucks.
 
I have no qualms with religion beyond the fact that I consider factually wrong and all the harm that extenmds from holding a viewpoint that is factually wrong.

The issue is only with religion am I expected to have any justification for opposing something other then that.
 
That'd be me. I don't hate religion. I was raised Catholic and nearly became a priest. All my family and friends are religious.
Religion does a lot of good in the world.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
That'd be me. I don't hate religion. I was raised Catholic and nearly became a priest. All my family and friends are religious.
Religion does a lot of good in the world.
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Yes, religion does good. The problem is that you learn to accept and defend something for which you can't give evidence and yet claim that you can give evidence for it anyhow.
 
Resume said:
Back in the day, the campus crusade for Christ used to annoy the living piss out of me. At first when they approached I'd engage them, then, after the first dozen or so times, I really began to hate their particular form of christianity.

"Jesus Christ, can't you see I'm studying here?"

When it gets pushy, religion sucks.
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Yeah, but all hobbies are like that.

Here's a tip. Never room with someone who loves all things locomotive. Zealotry is irritating in any form.
 
marplots said:
Yeah, but all hobbies are like that.

Here's a tip. Never room with someone who loves all things locomotive. Zealotry is irritating in any form.
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Yeah, but do train-zealots come up to random people on campus and witness to them about trains? Do they knock on people's doors to spread the good news?

Religious brings it's own form of zealotry.
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, but do train-zealots come up to random people on campus and witness to them about trains? Do they knock on people's doors to spread the good news?

Religious brings it's own form of zealotry.
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Good point. Zealots compelled to recruit are much worse. Like those people who tell me I should stop smoking when I'm out sneaking a cigarette. (They want me to join the ranks of ex-smokers.) Or those buggers who think I'm a bad pet owner because I didn't have my dog's balls lopped off. (They want me to adopt their notion of pet ownership.) Or those ice-bucket people who "challenge" other people and recruit them to the cause. It's a spectrum of bad behavior.

We need to increase the notion of personal space to several meters.
 
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marplots said:
Or those buggers who think I'm a bad pet owner because I didn't have my dog's balls lopped off.
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People you don't know are approaching you in public and telling you to get your dog neutered? Or telling you about the benefits of neutering without even knowing whether you have a dog?

(you certainly aren't comparing tv commercials to religious proselytizing, are you?)

They are knocking on your door on Saturday mornings to tell you to quit smoking?
(btw, perhaps your blowing smoke in their face is what is initiating the encounter?)
 
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