Michael Brown Shooting

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Puppycow said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

Can't guarantee all of the "facts" there are actually facts, but each of them links to a footnote to the original source (or if not, there is a "[citation needed]" note).

Or, if you prefer, you could try this:
http://www.vox.com/cards/mike-brown-protests-ferguson-missouri/mike-brown-ferguson-MO-protests

Again, though, no source is 100% objective or omniscient or always 100% correct.
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Thanks , I did not realize there was a wiki so quick...
I'll read up, the thread is way too polarized for me.
 
Brainster said:
ETA: I do love these two additional details from the original story:

Quite the family man.
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What the heck has this to do with what you quoted ? Explain me like i am a foreigner or 5 years old, because it sounds to me as if you are sarcastic and implying he was not a family man. But from what you quoted there is no indication that this was or was not the case.

Am I missing something or reading too much ?
 
Brainster said:
Thanks for the video, which points out that the air rifle in question is based on the Bushmaster ACR, which you can see here.

I am sure that at a glance you can see which is the bb/pellet gun and which is the serious rifle. At any rate, this derail has gone far enough. I am not blaming the victim, and I am not blaming the cops. I would be interested to find out if this gun was just lying around at Wal-Mart on a shelf or if it was in a box or otherwise at least moderately secured.

I would give you an avatar bet for a month that this particular shooting turns out to be justified.

ETA: I do love these two additional details from the original story:





Quite the family man.
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That shooting had its own thread, BTW:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281433
 
Aepervius said:
What the heck has this to do with what you quoted ? Explain me like i am a foreigner or 5 years old, because it sounds to me as if you are sarcastic and implying he was not a family man. But from what you quoted there is no indication that this was or was not the case.

Am I missing something or reading too much ?
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It seems that he was not a strict follower of Puritanical or Catholic doctrine regarding sex outside of wedlock or lifetime monogamy! :jaw-dropp
 
stanfr said:
Oh pray tell us your experiences...as one who has been on both sides of a judge (one side many more times than another) I can't wait to hear!
But I wont. Exactly. Because of racism. And bigotry. And stupidity.
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You think black judges go soft on black defendants who cry "racism" as a reason for their criminal activity? That's why "because slavery" is such a stupid argument from the "All police are racist" crowd. That **** may work on CNN, but it does not play in court. As a public defender, you should know that better than anyone.

If you really want to know my experience in criminal law, feel free to send a private message.
 
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shuize said:
You think black judges go soft on black defendants who cry "racism" as a reason for their criminal activity? That's why "because slavery" is such a stupid argument from the "All police are racist" crowd. That **** may work on CNN, but it does not play in court. As a public defender, you should know that better than anyone.

If you really want to know my experience in criminal law, feel free to send a private message.
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On the other hand there is something at play I have seen also at play with north african in france : disproportionate check or arrest for the same activity among non-white compared to white.

I will give you two examples that I understood are valid in the US statistically.

1) being controlled nwhile being non white
2) being arrested for minor offense as being non white

For point 1 , there was this tigma that if you were non white, you better got driving a cheap car or not driving at all, because driving an expensive car would get you controlled more often than other people. Same while walking around. It was not funny the first time as I a caucassian was not controlled for paper while my 2 friends were, it was not funny the xxth time either. It was not funny seeing them often asked to show their backpack in supermarket (I was not). One of my own friend being a policeman in north banlieu paris simply admitted to racial profiling because everybody else was doing it and it seemed to work.

For point 2 : I have seen policemen ignore jay walking right in front of their face of white guys, only to see one non caucassian get immediately a minor fine.

Look I am very warry after that of statistic because if every body no matter the melanine amount in their skin are doing the same minor offense in proportion, say 25%, but say non cauccassian are controlled or fined far more often, this alone will skew the statistic. And give a feeling of racism and injustice. And yet none of the fined can say they were innocent. It is just the difference in attitude and the levity of police to not pursue some illegal activity which can simply skew this.

Those might have been only anecdote, and not representative of the whole situation in France but I doubt it.

If I had to give a guess not knowing the situation that much in the USA or fergusson, I would say this might play a role.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The autopsy was not so much inconclusive as it was incomplete. Dr Baden made it clear that the clothing, X-rays, and crime scene evidence are needed to complete the autopsy.

There could be powder burns on the clothes that wasn't on the skin. There will be blood spatter evidence on the clothing. And the location of the shells are needed.
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This.
 
Aepervius said:
What the heck has this to do with what you quoted ? Explain me like i am a foreigner or 5 years old, because it sounds to me as if you are sarcastic and implying he was not a family man. But from what you quoted there is no indication that this was or was not the case.

Am I missing something or reading too much ?
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I just found it amusing that at 22 he already had two children with one woman (LeeCee Johnson), but was shopping that day at Wal-Mart with another woman (Tasha Thomas) who is described in the story as his girlfriend (generally used in American English to denote a female lover).
 
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The Baden "autopsy" was strictly a Hail Mary attempt to be able to get the word out to the media that Brown had been shot in the back, to influence the jury pool.

It wasn't really an autopsy at all. It was a search of the body for bullet wounds in the back.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
But the point being made is that when you ask people to protect your society from the violent criminal elements and then send them out into the worst areas, if you additionally ask them to take whatever those violent criminals throw at them, and make killing any of them at any time almost unthinkable... then you're asking them to de-prioritize preserving their own lives, in favor of preserving the lives of violent criminals.
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Yes, that is exactly what I'm asking. :rolleyes:

Brainster said:
How about if they have knives?
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My brother was shot for brandishing a knife.

sir drinks-a-lot said:
I'm sure it is not PC, and I'm sure it will make heads explode, but it is interesting to consider what would have became of Michael Brown if he hadn't been killed in this incident. There are rumors that he was about to start classes for HVAC or something similar, but it seems very likely to me at least that he was on a path to more and more trouble with the law.
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I had a friend who was always in trouble with the law in his youth. He turned things around in his mid 20's and today owns a pretty successful business.

MattusMaximus said:
Holy crap. That cop should have been arrested, and no doubt there will be a civil lawsuit in the works over this incident.

That said, unless this cop was Wilson himself, the video says nothing about Wilson's guilt/innocence in the killing of Brown.
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Haven't you learned anything from this thread? Cops can do no wrong! :p
 
Travis said:
Yes, that is exactly what I'm asking. :rolleyes:



My brother was shot for brandishing a knife.



I had a friend who was always in trouble with the law in his youth. He turned things around in his mid 20's and today owns a pretty successful business.



Haven't you learned anything from this thread? Cops can do no wrong! :p
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Haven't you? Your bias has been thinking for you throughout and you don't even pretend to be able to judge without relying on it.
 
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Brainster said:
Did you even bother to read past the first paragraph? Maybe you should before making your uninformed comment (although I doubt it will help).



Here's the "toy" in question:



Probably not a lethal weapon except for birds and squirrels, but it certainly looks pretty deadly. I am also amused that MSNBC credits Raw Story on this one.
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You could shoot an eye out with that thing, just ask Ralphie. ;)
 
Travis said:
I never intended to pretend I could discuss this rationally.

Got anything else?
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with respect, and sympathy as to the reason for this being the cas- why are you engaging in this thread? surely on a discussion forum intended for rational debate, if you know you can't do so on a particular thread then posting in that thread must be nothing but trolling.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Hell, they even shoot young black men with toy guns.
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Toy?

LTC8K6 said:
Crosman MK-177:

http://www.crosman.com/img/products/full/30117.jpg
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LTC8K6 said:
The MK-177 high power air gun is made to look just like the Bushmaster ACR.

http://www.bushmaster.com/acr/#ConfigurationsTab
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Brainster said:
A BB/Pellet gun is not a toy. These days, all toy guns have the orange tip.
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And our new career as a gun "expert" gets off to a hilarious and humiliating start....
 
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LTC8K6 said:
The Baden "autopsy" was strictly a Hail Mary attempt to be able to get the word out to the media that Brown had been shot in the back, to influence the jury pool.

It wasn't really an autopsy at all. It was a search of the body for bullet wounds in the back.
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Done by a guy who wasn't even licensed. Or a doctor.

Yeah, that one kind of blew up in their face.
 
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