Michael Brown Shooting

[OneShotKi11]

What's funny is that no one is asking the right question. No one is even interested in why such a bias might exist?

The anger and unrest in Ferguson. You think that is unique? You think that comes from nowhere? That comes from somewhere, my friends. And figuring out where that anger comes from is the real issue at hand here. A community with no underlying resentment doesn't just blow up like this over a police shooting. A nation that doesn't already have some problems with how modern police forces work doesn't become as polarized as the USA currently is over this issue.

We are all obsessing over how one particular tree fell over and completely missing the fact that the entire forest was clearcut and no one wants to talk about it.

Sounds like the comment of someone who is realizing how wrong they probably were in how this incident occurred, so now is trying to draw attention away from it by diverting the conversation into a more grandiose over arching ideology.

You know whats really annoying? Watching people get all worked up about particular cases; Treyvon, Garner, and now Brown. Yet none of them know the facts of the situation. Almost none of the people screaming for the cops head and chanting how its injustice know what really happened, or when confronted with facts, refuse to accept them and try to dilute the conversation in just the way you did. "Well its not any one particular case, but a huge problem with the system"...

Every think that particular communities are raised with a cop hating, authority despising culture? And maybe, just maybe this culture is what makes them extremely emotional and unable to interpret the situations properly? I watch even routine blatantly obvious situations where a cop made the right call become over running with conversations about "kill all pigs", and the "system just hates black people".

It blows my mind how people cant accept certain facts, and always choose to see their own.

 

[Mumbles]

What's funny is that no one is asking the right question. No one is even interested in why such a bias might exist?

The anger and unrest in Ferguson. You think that is unique? You think that comes from nowhere? That comes from somewhere, my friends. And figuring out where that anger comes from is the real issue at hand here. A community with no underlying resentment doesn't just blow up like this over a police shooting. A nation that doesn't already have some problems with how modern police forces work doesn't become as polarized as the USA currently is over this issue.

We are all obsessing over how one particular tree fell over and completely missing the fact that the entire forest was clearcut and no one wants to talk about it.

I don't quite agree with what you wrote before, but I'll stand beside you on this one. Modern policing has always had a severe racial component in the US, and although I do think that there are good cops who work hard to fix these issues, the fact is that the issues are there. And yes, a single shooting, even in a small town that sees below 5 murders per year like Ferguson, would not explode like this unless there were underlying issues.

Although, yet again, arresting reporters and dressing up like soldiers and pointing rifles at peaceful protesters in broad daylight, makes this fact perfectly clear. I'm not at all surprised that locals, when interviewed, point to a litany of offenses and abuses. I'd be shocked if you couldn't find an area of the country where the locals couldn't do such.

 

[Mumbles]

Im sure this has been posted a million times, but here it is just in case. Video of witnesses not knowing they were being recorded moments after the shooting describing it to neighborhood people and their accounts of it match perfectly with the cops account of the story.

Since the cop's account has not been released, this is impossible to say.

 

[OneShotKi11]

Since the cop's account has not been released, this is impossible to say.

Fine. Cops account according to supposed friend of the individual.

 

[Travis]

Sounds like the comment of someone who is realizing how wrong they probably were in how this incident occurred, so now is trying to draw attention away from it by diverting the conversation into a more grandiose over arching ideology.

This kind of stuff is never just about the case at hand. My brother was killed by cops who were never disciplined for doing so. I'm sure the others that are angry have their own history that colors their emotions.

You know whats really annoying? Watching people get all worked up about particular cases; Treyvon, Garner, and now Brown. Yet none of them know the facts of the situation. Almost none of the people screaming for the cops head and chanting how its injustice know what really happened, or when confronted with facts, refuse to accept them and try to dilute the conversation in just the way you did. "Well its not any one particular case, but a huge problem with the system"...

Others try to excuse the cops no matter what as well. There lots of entrenched opinions here. Don't pretend they are all on one side.

I was pretty open about my thoughts on the Trayvon case and how my emotions on the matter had very little to do with the actual case.

Every think that particular communities are raised with a cop hating, authority despising culture? And maybe, just maybe this culture is what makes them extremely emotional and unable to interpret the situations properly? I watch even routine blatantly obvious situations where a cop made the right call become over running with conversations about "kill all pigs", and the "system just hates black people".

Ever think about the systemic issues that create cultures that hate cops? They aren't organic, trust me on that.

It blows my mind how people cant accept certain facts, and always choose to see their own.

Welcome to humanity.

 

[Skeletor]

I've been out of the country for a few months, and for the past two weeks, this shooting and the subsequent protests have been constantly been on CNN. After the Trayvon Martin shooting in 2012, I initially thought the shooter (Zimmerman) was in the wrong, due to unreliable evidence presented by the news.
I really don't feel like being mislead again this time. I'm keeping my opinion neutral until I hear some solid evidence either way...and yes, the Baden autopsy is pretty solid, but I want to know more about radio calls, forensics data, toxicology data, and whether or not Brown grabbed Wilson's gun.

 

[a_unique_person]

Sounds like the comment of someone who is realizing how wrong they probably were in how this incident occurred, so now is trying to draw attention away from it by diverting the conversation into a more grandiose over arching ideology.

You know whats really annoying? Watching people get all worked up about particular cases; Treyvon, Garner, and now Brown. Yet none of them know the facts of the situation. Almost none of the people screaming for the cops head and chanting how its injustice know what really happened, or when confronted with facts, refuse to accept them and try to dilute the conversation in just the way you did. "Well its not any one particular case, but a huge problem with the system"...

They know facts that we don't know, like the general relationship between the local police force and it's non white citizens. Like Travis said, it's more than just the death of Brown. The death is a trigger for releasing pent up emotions.

We still don't know what the facts prove yet, since we don't have all the evidence yet. I see people constructing elaborate rationalisations for why the cop is innocent as much as people protest the killing. I had a go myself, but I don't know what the evidence to come will prove.

 

[marplots]

What's funny is that no one is asking the right question. No one is even interested in why such a bias might exist?

The anger and unrest in Ferguson. You think that is unique? You think that comes from nowhere? That comes from somewhere, my friends. And figuring out where that anger comes from is the real issue at hand here. A community with no underlying resentment doesn't just blow up like this over a police shooting. A nation that doesn't already have some problems with how modern police forces work doesn't become as polarized as the USA currently is over this issue.

We are all obsessing over how one particular tree fell over and completely missing the fact that the entire forest was clearcut and no one wants to talk about it.

True enough. I don't want to talk about it.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I like how you totally discount three eye witness reports.

I like how you suggest that three cups of weak tea make a strong one...

 

[12AX7]

.... Brown's rivals in the drug trade....

This thread is moving quick so I may have missed this. What evdence do you have of Brown being involved in "the drug trade"?

Note: Not dug use, drug trade.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

This kind of stuff is never just about the case at hand.

It was about the case at hand back when you flipped out and condemned everyone in the thread who didn't agree with you.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

May I point out that St. Louis County is not one sea of flames and rubble?

 

[Mike!]

Logic left this thread a long time ago. I was hoping to draw attention to that.

​

This is what I was trying to draw attention to.

Facts about what happened were, and still are, sparse. Yet the robbery thing led multiple posters to declare the shooting justified with no other new information being presented.

Think about that for just one second. What other conclusion am I supposed to draw from that?



Satire is needed sometimes.



Exactly. The robbery was, and is, immaterial to the shooting. It was a huge diversion from actually relevant facts.



Or out of good knowledge that it is irrelevant.



My personal view is that it would take an extraordinarily unique situation for any cop to justify shooting an unarmed man. Unless we get evidence that Brown is really the hero from Taken and the cop had no self defense training I'm in the camp that the shooting is unjustified as a given.

Cops should not be shooting unarmed people, bullrush, mouthing off, charging or whatever. Maybe this means more cops die. I don't care. They are there supposedly to serve and sacrifice for us which they largely stopped doing long, long ago.



I'm glad someone brought this up.

I long ago stopped thinking of cops as serving the people. They now only serve their own institution. The people, in their mind, are the enemy that needs to be put in its place.

So, yes, the police are at war with the people they are ostensibly serving. And in that scenario I throw myself down as on the side of the PEOPLE and not the quasi-fascist nepotism riddled abuse factories known as law enforcement.



This is what I've thought since the beginning but was waiting for evidence to make up my mind. The autopsy seems to support this idea.

Cops are sociopaths constantly looking for their next quick fix of abuse and bullying. Why would such a thing, therefore, be surprising?



Yes, because people no longer trust their police. See my thoughts above on this.



To me the autopsy seemed to show he was on his knees with this hands raised when the cop unloaded into him. Did the cop do this because he's just another typical psychopathic law enforcement officer or because he snapped? We shall see eventually.

What a sad world you live in.

 

[Brainster]

What's funny is that no one is asking the right question. No one is even interested in why such a bias might exist?

The anger and unrest in Ferguson. You think that is unique? You think that comes from nowhere? That comes from somewhere, my friends. And figuring out where that anger comes from is the real issue at hand here. A community with no underlying resentment doesn't just blow up like this over a police shooting. A nation that doesn't already have some problems with how modern police forces work doesn't become as polarized as the USA currently is over this issue.

We are all obsessing over how one particular tree fell over and completely missing the fact that the entire forest was clearcut and no one wants to talk about it.

Racial grievance hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson tell black kids that there is no sense working hard to get ahead as the deck is stacked against them, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm old enough to remember MLK exhorting black kids not to, "Burn, baby, burn. I say learn, baby, learn, so you can earn, baby, earn."

The media stokes the flames by puffing up stories like Trayvon Martin as some huge racial injustice, and so when Zimmerman gets off it just reinforces that defeatist attitude. Ditto with this current nonsense; when the cop is found innocent the media will be standing by with the gasoline and the match.

 

[marplots]

Racial grievance hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson tell black kids that there is no sense working hard to get ahead as the deck is stacked against them, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm old enough to remember MLK exhorting black kids not to, "Burn, baby, burn. I say learn, baby, learn, so you can earn, baby, earn."

The media stokes the flames by puffing up stories like Trayvon Martin as some huge racial injustice, and so when Zimmerman gets off it just reinforces that defeatist attitude. Ditto with this current nonsense; when the cop is found innocent the media will be standing by with the gasoline and the match.

Understandable. If you had to pick a degree where MLK's recipe fails, Journalism would be right up there.

 

[shuize]

Racial grievance hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson tell black kids that there is no sense working hard to get ahead as the deck is stacked against them, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm old enough to remember MLK exhorting black kids not to, "Burn, baby, burn. I say learn, baby, learn, so you can earn, baby, earn."

The media stokes the flames by puffing up stories like Trayvon Martin as some huge racial injustice, and so when Zimmerman gets off it just reinforces that defeatist attitude. Ditto with this current nonsense; when the cop is found innocent the media will be standing by with the gasoline and the match.

Gasoline, match, and video camera.

 

[Distracted1]

Personally, I think what appears in that video is far too flimsy to be considered, for a variety of reasons. But if you feel otherwise, I'll respect that.

At this point, I'm just going to say agree to disagree, and I apologize to you for my snippy tone. There's already enough of that in this thread, and I don't care to add to it anymore than I already.

I accept your apology, and offer one up in return.

 

[ProBonoShill]

Logic left this thread a long time ago. I was hoping to draw attention to that.

​

This is what I was trying to draw attention to.

Facts about what happened were, and still are, sparse. Yet the robbery thing led multiple posters to declare the shooting justified with no other new information being presented.

Think about that for just one second. What other conclusion am I supposed to draw from that?



Satire is needed sometimes.



Exactly. The robbery was, and is, immaterial to the shooting. It was a huge diversion from actually relevant facts.



Or out of good knowledge that it is irrelevant.



My personal view is that it would take an extraordinarily unique situation for any cop to justify shooting an unarmed man. Unless we get evidence that Brown is really the hero from Taken and the cop had no self defense training I'm in the camp that the shooting is unjustified as a given.

Cops should not be shooting unarmed people, bullrush, mouthing off, charging or whatever. Maybe this means more cops die. I don't care. They are there supposedly to serve and sacrifice for us which they largely stopped doing long, long ago.


I'm glad someone brought this up.

I long ago stopped thinking of cops as serving the people. They now only serve their own institution. The people, in their mind, are the enemy that needs to be put in its place.

So, yes, the police are at war with the people they are ostensibly serving. And in that scenario I throw myself down as on the side of the PEOPLE and not the quasi-fascist nepotism riddled abuse factories known as law enforcement.



This is what I've thought since the beginning but was waiting for evidence to make up my mind. The autopsy seems to support this idea.

Cops are sociopaths constantly looking for their next quick fix of abuse and bullying. Why would such a thing, therefore, be surprising?


Yes, because people no longer trust their police. See my thoughts above on this.



To me the autopsy seemed to show he was on his knees with this hands raised when the cop unloaded into him. Did the cop do this because he's just another typical psychopathic law enforcement officer or because he snapped? We shall see eventually.

These are quite possibly the dumbest things I've ever read here and considering I spend most of my time at the 9/11 Conspiracies sub-forum that says a lot.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

For the record, we should be reminded that eye witness testimony is among the worst forms of evidence presentable in court. This also goes for the eye witness testimony allegedly supporting those who claim Brown was shot in cold blood.

Thus, I place little to no value on reports such as these.

The value is, that according to The Gospel of St. Michael, all the witnesses said he was executed by the cop (early versions insisted he was shot in the back while fleeing, but later apostles seemed to move away from that). These alternate witnesses suggest that there are two sides to every story, which, as a real skeptic, I already knew.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Probably everyone who has been arrested in that area since Saturday has been asked:

• Detective: You see the shooting the other day?
• Perp: Huh?
• Detective: You want to help yourself out?
• Perp: Huh?
• Detective: You see the black kid charge the police car?
• Perp: What black kid?
• Detective: You want to help yourself out?
• Perp: Oh! You mean...Yeah I was there. Sure was.
• Detective: Okay. You help us we help you.
• Perp: Yeah that brother was acting all crazy man.

Was this on Law & Order or CSI?