Michael Brown Shooting

[KatieG]

I didn't see a lot of that. I saw a lot of people claiming they wanted to wait until more information was known. Some on either side took a hard tack. Somethings that can't be known are being put forth as facts.

What I'm seeing is a police force (Ferguson PD) that is so inept, they required help from St. Louis PD and then from the State Police. By that alone, their reports and related documents are suspect. We'll see what happens.

 

[LTC8K6]

I never offered any scenario, I said Michael Brown was shot in the head. I was laughed at and asked how I knew that. It was a slam dunk and now I offer proof. Go make up your own stories.

You guessed correctly, but it wasn't much of a feat.

 

[LTC8K6]

I didn't see a lot of that. I saw a lot of people claiming they wanted to wait until more information was known. Some on either side took a hard tack. Somethings that can't be known are being put forth as facts.

What I'm seeing is a police force (Ferguson PD) that is so inept, they required help from St. Louis PD and then from the State Police. By that alone, their reports and related documents are suspect. We'll see what happens.

Again, FPD has only 54 sworn officers total.

No way they could handle even a small riot without a lot of help.

 

[Meed]

What's confusing? The testimony contradicting the medical examiner is completely consistent with my post.

To lay it out more clearly: Brown is running away from Wilson. Johnson sees/hears Wilson shoot at Brown. Brown jerks his body and turns around. Johnson thinks he was hit, but in reality the shots missed. Thus, Johnson was not lying when he said that Brown was shot in the back. He was simply wrong. And since the human eye cannot follow the path of a bullet through the air, this would be a very easy thing to be wrong about. We judge whether a shot hit its target only based on things like the direction the gun is facing and the reaction of the target.

(Disclaimer: I'm saying this is what seems the most plausible scenario. Not that this is definitely what happened)

 

[KatieG]

To lay it out more clearly: Brown is running away from Wilson. Johnson sees/hears Wilson shoot at Brown. Brown jerks his body and turns around. Johnson thinks he was hit, but in reality the shots missed. Thus, Johnson was not lying when he said that Brown was shot in the back. He was simply wrong. And since the human eye cannot follow the path of a bullet through the air, this would be a very easy thing to be wrong about. We judge whether a shot hit its target only based on things like the direction the gun is facing and the reaction of the target.

(Disclaimer: I'm saying this is what seems the most plausible scenario. Not that this is definitely what happened)

Thank you. That explains why Dorian Johnson thought he saw a shot to Brown's back. Extremely plausible, to me anyway.

 

[LTC8K6]

To lay it out more clearly: Brown is running away from Wilson. Johnson sees/hears Wilson shoot at Brown. Brown jerks his body and turns around. Johnson thinks he was hit, but in reality the shots missed. Thus, Johnson was not lying when he said that Brown was shot in the back. He was simply wrong. And since the human eye cannot follow the path of a bullet through the air, this would be a very easy thing to be wrong about. We judge whether a shot hit its target only based on things like the direction the gun is facing and the reaction of the target.

(Disclaimer: I'm saying this is what seems the most plausible scenario. Not that this is definitely what happened)

Now you are implying that Wilson tried to shoot Brown in the back as he fled, but missed.

That makes no sense.

If Wilson was so angry and crazy as to shoot Brown in the back, why didn't he loose a few at Johnson?

 

[Meed]

Thank you. That explains why Dorian Johnson thought he saw a shot to Brown's back. Extremely plausible, to me anyway.

The first time I said it you claimed I must be living in a fantasy world. Now you find it extremely plausible? Okay. :|

 

[LTC8K6]

Johnson says the round struck Brown in the back. Struck.

He's very clear that Brown was hit in the back, and that's why he turned around to surrender and said "stop shooting...".

There's no getting around that video, imo.

 

[KatieG]

The first time I said it you claimed I must be living in a fantasy world. Now you find it extremely plausible? Okay. :|

I give up. That reference was to the gun. As I read what you were saying, it referred to why Dorian Johnson thought he saw Brown shot in the back. This is why eyewitness testimony is not the most reliable. What Johnson thought he saw is what happened in seconds. The scenario you laid out above seemed reasonable to me. I hope we find out more.

 

[Meed]

Now you are implying that Wilson tried to shoot Brown in the back as he fled, but missed.

That makes no sense.

At least two witnesses saw Brown being shot at as he was running away from Wilson. If you don't find Johnson credible, how about the twitter user, @TheePharoah? I find him particularly credible because he was not planning on going public with his witness account, he was just describing what he saw to his twitter friends. And because he was writing about it right after it happened.

Not sure why you think it makes no sense.

If Wilson was so angry and crazy as to shoot Brown in the back, why didn't he loose a few at Johnson?

Because Brown was the one he got into an altercation with at his car, of course.

 

[LTC8K6]

This report has Johnson saying the shots were at close range.

Brown made it past the third car. Then, “blam!” the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back. At that point, Johnson says Brown stopped, turned with his hands up and said “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!”

By that point, Johnson says the officer and Brown were face-to-face. The officer then fired several more shots. Johnson described watching Brown go from standing with his hands up to crumbling to the ground and curling into a fetal position.

The officer was face to face with a surrendering Brown and simply executed him.

And Brown was hit at the vehicle.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

 

[LTC8K6]

At least two witnesses saw Brown being shot at as he was running away from Wilson. If you don't find Johnson credible, how about the twitter user, @TheePharoah? I find him particularly credible because he was not planning on going public with his witness account, he was just describing what he saw to his twitter friends. And because he was writing about it right after it happened.

Not sure why you think it makes no sense.



Because Brown was the one he got into an altercation with at his car, of course.

If we can use twitterers, then we can use youtube.

Then we have the youtube video where people are talking in the background about the shooting...

 

[Meed]

I give up. That reference was to the gun. As I read what you were saying, it referred to why Dorian Johnson thought he saw Brown shot in the back. This is why eyewitness testimony is not the most reliable. What Johnson thought he saw is what happened in seconds. The scenario you laid out above seemed reasonable to me.

Yeah.. I'm saying he thought he saw Brown shot in the back because Wilson shot and missed. But the first time I suggested that Wilson shot and missed you dismissed this as me being in a "fantasy world". Now you apparently find it "extremely plausible". The scenario you called plausible requires Wilson having had more than 6 bullets, which seemed to be your initial objection.

I'm not saying you can't change your mind, if that's what happened, I'm just finding your posts very confusing. Are you still (or were you ever?) of the position that Wilson only had 6 bullets? If so can you explain what you're basing that on?

I hope we find out more.

I concur.

 

[Meed]

If we can use twitterers, then we can use youtube.

Then we have the youtube video where people are talking in the background about the shooting...

Those witness accounts are less clear, but I never said they should be dismissed.

 

[LTC8K6]

“I seen the fire come out of the barrell,” he said. “I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close.”

Johnson says he was within arm’s reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.

So we should have a good blood trail from the SUV as Brown ran.

 

[LTC8K6]

IIRC, with a shot that close, we would expect stippling and powder on the body, even through the shirt.

 

[LTC8K6]

Note that with Trayvon Martin, we had a soot ring and a large area of stippling through a hoodie and a t-shirt from a close range shot with a 9mm.

 

[shuize]

This report has Johnson saying the shots were at close range.

The officer was face to face with a surrendering Brown and simply executed him.

And Brown was hit at the vehicle.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

Many interesting "statements" from that article.

“Everyone else’s mentality be on some nonsense, silliness,” Johnson said. “But Mike had his mind set on more than that, helping others ..."

About 20 minutes before the shooting, Johnson said he saw Brown walking down the street and decided to catch up with him. The two walked and talked. That’s when Johnson says they saw the police car rolling up to them.

Brown made it past the third car. Then, “blam!” the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back.

 

[Mumbles]

For all of you that gave me crap for my earlier comments:

FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was killed by a police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found.
One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

Yes, he was shot in the head, twice. Let the back peddling begin.

You know full well that's not how this works XD

Anyway, the thing I find strange is where the shots are clustered - namely, on Brown's right side, except for one at the top of his head. The only people trained to shoot for the head are people who play video games, everyone who handles a real firearm is trained to aim for the chest - it's the largest target, and will take out someone who is attacking you, thus it's by far the best place to aim for. And we do not know what hand Wilson favors, but we do know that most people favor their right hand. So why are the bullet wounds on *Brown's* right? The idea that Brown put his head down and charged at Wilson is absurd, obviously - he didn't have horns on his head, after all - but we don't know when that wound was made. he could have been shot, and then fallen over, or have been shot while surrendering on his knees.

I see nothing here that helps Wilson - but also nothing that damns him. And that's what I was expecting, and why I said that we really need to see Davis' account of the shooting.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What it proves is that this cop was a terrible shot. He was apparently trying to execute Brown, but hit one of the hands the kid had raised high above his head (and at an angle).

Well, to be fair, he had to be grand jury, prosecutor, inept defense counsel, judge, warden and executor, all in the space of 5 seconds. It's a daunting task.