Michael Brown Shooting

[Howie Felterbush]

I for one am willing to concede that Brown was a bad person.

But I'm not sure how that gets us any closer to determining if his death was justified.

Believe me, you aren't the problem in this thread, not by a long chalk.

The problem is the two sides positioned at "fire breathing racist kkkop shoots sweet-natured black child on his way to astronaut practice" and "feral blackamoor savages shop owner then attacks cop just for fun while smoking pilfered cigars filled with devil weed".

I suspect when things shake out the truth will be somewhere betwixt these two opinions.

 

[William Parcher]

I said I posted two photos but I only posted one. There was another photo that was linked to by another poster. I think my version gives a better view of the clean white shirt at the back.

 

[johnny karate]

IMO, he already knows what photo WP was referring to. He doesn't think you can tell from that photo.

I wanted to make sure it was the same photo before commenting.

And no, I don't think you can tell anything from that photo. Because you can't.

 

[Unabogie]

Another witness speaks.

Apparently police refused to let a nurse there perform CPR on brown as lay bleeding. Likely would not have helped, but definitely calls into the FPD's culture into even more question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/u...wilson-2-paths-to-a-fatal-encounter.html?_r=0

Sitting outside his building, Mr. Stone said he was jolted by the sound of two gunshots, followed by several more in rapid succession. The second series of shots “sounded automatic,” he said. “They let it rip.”

Mr. Stone ran outside and saw two police officers, both white men, standing near Mr. Brown, who was lying on his stomach, his arms at his sides, blood seeping from his head. Another neighbor, a woman who identified herself as a nurse, was begging the officers to let her perform CPR.

They refused, Mr. Stone said, adding, “They didn’t even check to see if he was breathing.”

What the hell?

 

[William Parcher]

Thanks!

Yeah, pretty much the photo I thought it would be. From 10 or 20 feet away, and in profile.

For anyone - especially random internet sleuths - to claim anything conclusive can be determined from that photo is laughable.

I even said in that post that it wasn't conclusive. You are using my words.

 

[Unabogie]

Believe me, you aren't the problem in this thread, not by a long chalk.

The problem is the two sides positioned at "fire breathing racist kkkop shoots sweet-natured black child on his way to astronaut practice" and "feral blackamoor savages shop owner then attacks cop just for fun while smoking pilfered cigars filled with devil weed".

I suspect when things shake out the truth will be somewhere betwixt these two opinions.

I think the truth will be that non-fire breathing cop who nonetheless works for a racist police force killed a bad kid using excessive force and the FPD went berserk and terrorized the populace. When all is said and done, this cop should be tried, even if Brown was a thief.

 

[LTC8K6]

Another witness speaks.

Apparently police refused to let a nurse there perform CPR on brown as lay bleeding. Likely would not have helped, but definitely calls into the FPD's culture into even more question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/u...wilson-2-paths-to-a-fatal-encounter.html?_r=0



What the hell?

The officers would have performed CPR if it was useful to do so.

 

[johnny karate]

I would. He's got reasons to lie, and people misremember events badly in exciting situations.
Even boring ones.

I'm not saying there aren't reasons to disbelieve Johnson's statement taken on its own, but in comparison to the statement of Wilson's friend, I think Johnson wins out by virtue of the fact that he was at least there.

And to your points, two thing to keep in mind:

Wilson's statement could be considered unreliable for the exact same reasons as Johnson's.

Two independent witnesses corroborate Johnson's statement.

 

[johnny karate]

I even said in that post that it wasn't conclusive. You are using my words.

Fair enough. But you expressed incredulity, and that incredulity is unwarranted.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think the truth will be that non-fire breathing cop who nonetheless works for a racist police force killed a bad kid using excessive force and the FPD went berserk and terrorized the populace. When all is said and done, this cop should be tried, even if Brown was a thief.

FPD is a small force. Only 54 sworn officers.

It couldn't have been FPD going berserk with the riot gear in most of those pics and vids.

Had to be mostly the much larger SCPD, I would think.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think Wilson is going to tell us that Johnson bolted early on.

 

[William Parcher]

Fair enough. I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

As far as the veracity of Johnson's story, I would see it's at least more reliable than that of Wilson's friend by virtue of the fact that he was actually there. Would you disagree?

Yes, I watched Johnson's YouTube rant and he is off his rocker. Besides that he leaves out the part about being a robber.

Of course one could say that Wilson's friend might be biased in his story. But Wilson's friend isn't trying to conceal that he is a criminal.

 

[William Parcher]

Fair enough. But you expressed incredulity, and that incredulity is unwarranted.

I expressed observant speculation. White tee shirts show blood really well. Even seeping blood will cause observable staining because of the extreme contrast with blood red against snow white. The photo does not appear to be overexposed either and that matters too.

 

[William Parcher]

Wilson's friend is not relevant to anything, wouldn't you agree?

There is an important possible relevancy. Wilson's friend may have gotten his story as it was told to him by Wilson. Therefore it is essentially a leak (preview) of what Wilson's actual testimony will be.

 

[William Parcher]

I wanted to make sure it was the same photo before commenting.

And no, I don't think you can tell anything from that photo. Because you can't.

Right and what looks like a river of blood might instead be Mogen David wine leaking from a broken bottle underneath Brown.

We just can't speculate anything here.

 

[William Parcher]

I'm not saying there aren't reasons to disbelieve Johnson's statement taken on its own, but in comparison to the statement of Wilson's friend, I think Johnson wins out by virtue of the fact that he was at least there.

Well we don't know that Johnson saw anything during the shooting. He could have been running away full speed to avoid being arrested for robbery.

Two independent witnesses corroborate Johnson's statement.

I seem to recall there being variations in eyewitness stories.

 

[johnny karate]

Yes, I watched Johnson's YouTube rant and he is off his rocker. Besides that he leaves out the part about being a robber.

Of course one could say that Wilson's friend might be biased in his story. But Wilson's friend isn't trying to conceal that he is a criminal.

Wilson's friend was not there. What anyone who was not there has to say about what happened is at best hearsay, and at worst completely irrelevant.

 

[GWCarver]

I'm aware of the etymology but if it's commonly held as a racially charged word I won't use it. No sense in being inflammatory when there are other words that work well, like thief.

But "thief" and "thug" aren't even close in meaning, and calling Brown a thief simply wouldn't accurately describe his actions in the convenience store. I think the left is just on a constant lookout for new and creative ways to call people like me racists, and changing the meaning of words on the fly is just one of those ways. Like, "Oh, you use THAT word. Well, we know what THAT means."

 

[johnny karate]

I expressed observant speculation. White tee shirts show blood really well. Even seeping blood will cause observable staining because of the extreme contrast with blood red against snow white. The photo does not appear to be overexposed either and that matters too.

It's a low-res photo taken from a distance. Furthermore, you notions of blood stain patterns resulting from gunshot wounds seems to have been influenced by Hollywood.

Your "observant speculation" has been noted and given its due consideration.

 

[jimbob]

The officers would have performed CPR if it was useful to do so.

I thought the doctrine was to do CPR if no detectable heartbeat until told otherwise by paramedics?