Future of the Forum

[RemieV]

...I answered that question clearly. If Icerat's only input into the boards is as host for the website, I don't really see that as a problem. Other people do have a problem, but I can only speak for myself.

But I'm not sure that that will be Icerats only involvement. Which is why when Icerat posted something that looked like he would have a greater involvement in things than just hosting the site, people asked questions.

I signed up to the Randi boards, because I believe in the mission of the JREF Foundation. I have no reason to sign up to the boards at their new home. I'm a member of many different forums where I tend to spend way more time. I don't need to register at a forum where the figurehead is diametrically opposed to the way I think. I'm not registered at Stormfront. And until we know what the new boards stand for I'm not going to register there either.



Very shortly these forums will no longer exist. There will be no "normal functioning" of these forums. I'm aware the "plan" is to simply remove the JREF banner and keep on rolling along, and I have no doubt that that is most probably what will happen. But there is nothing that guarantees that will happen. For all I know Icerat could take exception to what I have said here and ban me once we hit the new servers. Can you guarantee that that won't happen?

You willing to share where you go to forum? I'd like a replacement set up.

 

[banquetbear]

Sorry but I don't believe this answers my question, clearly or otherwise. Assuming Icerat does have more involvement than just hosting the website, what is your specific objections to him being in that position ? What, specifically, in his behaviour makes you think he would be bad for the forum ?

...I answered the question you asked clear as crystal. The question was "what is it about Icerat's posting history that you think disqualifies him or make him less suitable as a host for this website ?" My answer was I don't really have a problem with him as host for the website.

You are now asking a different question. If I answer that question, will you claim I didn't answer that question, and then post another question?

 

[Soapy Sam]

There are numerous hurdles to jump before anyone need decide to join or not join the new forum. Worrying about it now seems a bit premature.

 

[newyorkguy]

...<snip>

I signed up to the Randi boards, because I believe in the mission of the JREF Foundation. I have no reason to sign up to the boards at their new home. I'm a member of many different forums where I tend to spend way more time. I don't need to register at a forum where the figurehead is diametrically opposed to the way I think. I'm not registered at Stormfront. And until we know what the new boards stand for I'm not going to register there either.

I'm perfectly happy to wait and see but I do share some of banquetbear's concerns. I have recommended this board to many friends and co-workers -- I don't know of any who joined because, I'm afraid to say, most have a deep disdain for message boards based on prior experiences -- and it's not just because of the intelligent level of discussion here. Because as has already been stated, a lot of the discussion here is the opposite of intelligent. But I do wholeheartedly recommend the board without reservation because of the style of the place. The values, the culture and the atmosphere that creates. The level of moderation and the way it is carried out. As banquetbear is saying, all that could change overnight. I moderate a number of Yahoo message boards and good moderating is an art not a science. A few subtle changes behind the scenes can have dramatic effects on the board.

I'll wait and see.

 

[Belz...]

...I answered the question you asked clear as crystal.

It doesn't need to be clear to you, but to me.

The question was "what is it about Icerat's posting history that you think disqualifies him or make him less suitable as a host for this website ?" My answer was I don't really have a problem with him as host for the website.

You're going to go pedantic on me, now ? I've been clear that I want to know why you think his having more involvement than that is a problem.

You are now asking a different question. If I answer that question, will you claim I didn't answer that question, and then post another question?

Very well. I will henceforth assume that you have no reason to oppose or doubt the wisdom of having Icerat as operator of the future forum in any capacity. It's clear that you cannot and will not mention anything specific, other than a vague "I don't know if it's good".

 

[Belz...]

I have recommended this board to many friends and co-workers -- I don't know of any who joined because, I'm afraid to say, most have a deep disdain for message boards based on prior experiences -- and it's not just because of the intelligent level of discussion here. Because as has already been stated, a lot of the discussion here is the opposite of intelligent.

To be fair: discussion around a table, or a campfire, on Facebook or Twitter or Youtube or anywhere else usually isn't more intelligent.

 

[theprestige]

301 is the HTTP response code for a url that has been permanently relocated.

In other words, he wants JREF to hand the board over to someone rather than trash it entirely.

More accurately, he wants the JREF to maitain a webpage at forums.randi.org that redirects your browser to the new website of the forum. That way people who haven't heard the news will still be able to find the new forum, and the "301" response code helps their browsers to remember the new location of the "JREF forums".

It's a matter of basic Internet etiquette, when an organization decides to stop hosting a domain, to leave in place a temporary notification like this, so that people can transition easily to the new host.

Not putting up a 301 redirect (or some other similar solution like a DNS alias, etc.) would be the JREF equivalent of posting the notice of the new forum in the basement, with the lights and stairway out, in a locked cabinet, behind a door saying "beware of tiger".

I.e., substantially douchey.

 

[banquetbear]

It doesn't need to be clear to you, but to me.

...how did my answer not answer your question? Can you be specific?

You're going to go pedantic on me, now ? I've been clear that I want to know why you think his having more involvement than that is a problem.

Ironically, you haven't been clear at all. I answered your question. In the context of this discussion I honestly thought that was the question you intended to ask, as it had just been asked of another poster in a post just before mine.

Very well. I will henceforth assume that you have no reason to oppose or doubt the wisdom of having Icerat as operator of the future forum in any capacity.

What a childish response. I'm a member of the Randi forums because they stand for skepticism and critical thinking. I have no idea what these new forums will be, what they stand for, who will be in charge, and what they represent. I do know that Icerat holds several controversial opinions that are at odds with the skeptical mission that the JREF represents. If Icerats face replaces Randi, and if the mission of this place fundamentally changes, then it isn't a place I want to hang out.

 

[abaddon]

Anyone get in contact with jref.com?

Wow. Nobody noticed that one.

 

[newyorkguy]

I wrote a message explaining why I share some of banquetbear's concerns. You're only responding to one comment and ignoring the rest. This is a derail.

To be fair: discussion around a table, or a campfire, on Facebook or Twitter or Youtube or anywhere else usually isn't more intelligent.

In face-to-face conversations I find the overall level of discussion usually is more intelligent. In personal interactions I've found most people won't tolerate some of the nonsense that proliferates here.

 

[banquetbear]

...and here's the thing guys.

I've just posted at length in posts both in this thread and in the thread that got split to AAH, about my feelings about Icerat and his taking over the forums. I have no doubt he is a good guy. And he stepped up to the plate and has assumed a huge workload and responsibility and deserves most probably the lions share of the credit and thanks if and when these forums are successfully moved. I know he has contributed an incredible amount of work this past week: and responses like the ones in this thread (including from me) must make him feel **** on. He shouldn't feel that way.

How I feel about him as a poster though is how I honestly feel. Nothing anyone says here is going to change that. How I feel he would run the new place is entirely subjective, based on my opinions of his posting style. I make no apologies for stating exactly how I feel.

But to be honest I really don't want to state how I feel. I don't think Icerat either deserves that or needs that right now. So give us a break. Let those people who have questions, worries or concerns raise those question here, in this thread, where it is appropriate. Stop instantly attacking anyones post because you perceive it to be negative. Because when you challenge us to "back up our position": in the interests of honesty we will call it as we see it.

 

[icerat]

I have no idea what these new forums will be, what they stand for, who will be in charge, and what they represent.

I suspect there's a pretty good chance they'll be much the same as they are now. Just guessing though.

I do know that Icerat holds several controversial opinions that are at odds with the skeptical mission that the JREF represents.

I (funnily enough) disagree with that assertion, but you'll find differences of opinion on various topics is not exactly unusual. The fact people can have them and have intelligent discussions is what attracts me to this forum.

If Icerats face replaces Randi, and if the mission of this place fundamentally changes, then it isn't a place I want to hang out.

Me neither!

 

[abaddon]

<snip>

What a childish response. I'm a member of the Randi forums because they stand for skepticism and critical thinking.

OK. So are most.

I have no idea what these new forums will be, what they stand for, who will be in charge, and what they represent.

At this point there is no indication that any of these will change, nor that such information will be in any way other than transparent.

I do know that Icerat holds several controversial opinions that are at odds with the skeptical mission that the JREF represents.

Do you agree with everything that JREF, Admins and Mods have ever posted? I doubt it. All of those post opinions on many topics as members. Did that seem an insurmountable bar to your membership here?

Why, then, is icerat an exception?

If Icerats face replaces Randi,

Not even a hint of a suggestion at this point.

and if the mission of this place fundamentally changes,

Short term no, longer term perhaps. Certainly not a consideration at this point where continuation is the priority.

then it isn't a place I want to hang out.

Nobody is forcing you to do so. If you dislike whatever this forum becomes, you can leave. It seems perverse to do so without waiting to see what it becomes.

 

[CORed]

I've been lurking on this thread for the last several days.

For me, it's kind of a classic case of not knowing how much I value something until it's (possibly) gone. I have participated in a few other forums, but none have been as rewarding as this one. The community of intelligent, well educated people is unmatched anywhere else on the internet (and few places off of it) that I have been.

I think the JREF is making a big mistake. They seem to completely miss the value of this forum in promoting critical thinking and the skeptical view of the world. Though the signal to noise ratio is perhaps lower than they might like, that is probably inherent in the forum format. Sure, there's quite a bit of bickering posturing, jokes, and just plain irrelevant content, but in spite of all that (and maybe in some cases because of it) the forum remains a huge voice of sanity amid the wasteland of woo and misinformation that the internet has become. Of course, given that the JREF have pretty much ignored the forums for the last few years, I'm not quite sure how they expected it to produce results that they would like. Besides, I don't think that moderating the forum so tightly that it only delivers exactly the message that JREF wants it to is possible without squeezing the life out of it.

I concur with many others that the JREF's handling of the situation has been sub-optimum (to put it very mildly) in many respects. Their treatment of Darat and the admin team was deplorable. It also appears that this thread was started under false pretenses (whether Sharon was aware of this at the outset is not clear). It was started as asking for help in fixing the performance issues, but as soon as someone stepped up, it quickly changed to dumping the forum onto that person. I'm pretty sure that this was the intent from the beginning. The Forum community and and the admin/mod team are, as somebody else already set, being given the mushroom treatment.

Also, discovering that the forum data was housed on single, non-RAID hard drives with no backup is a pretty good indication of how little the JREF values the forum, or how technically clueless they are, or both.

Regarding Icerat, though I have some reservations about him, specifically his defense of MLM's and even Windows 8 (just kidding about the second), at this point I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. He seems to have the technical know-how, and the fact that I disagree with him on one or two issues is not, IMO sufficient reason to judge him as No True Skeptic and reject is offer. If somebody that seems more suitable steps up, I might change my mind on this. He does seem to have the technical know-how.

The issues of transferring personal information and forum content seem to have been resolved satisfactorily.

In any event, I will stick around through the transition, if it happens. If the forum takes a direction I don't like after that, I will be gone.

 

[Aepervius]

Personally i do not care whether icerat do MLM or believe in bigfoot or whatever.

What i object to is that the data I gave to JREF is now being sent to a third party en-masse. If I want to go to the new forum, I will register there and decide what I give in as info.

 

[Aepervius]

Regarding Icerat, though I have some reservations about him, specifically his defense of (...snip...) Windows 8

Now I am outraged . I can live with him defending MLM or whatever, but this, this is an outrage.


(OK I am joking here, but the rage is true. After so many month with windows 8 I am seriously considering linux - permanently).

 

[jhunter1163]

I'll defend icerat all the way. He's stepped up when we, as a forum, needed someone to step up. Like his opinions or not, he's the only game in town as far as continuing the forum, and it seems to me from what I've seen that he has the chops to handle the transition without turning the place into the IREF (IceRat Educational Forum).

 

[Locknar]

To dovetail on jhunters post, and what Darat and others have mentioned.... In my conversations with ice, he has been very up-front, very honest, and very "I just want to help".

Regardless of personal views on various on topics (and really, it would be boring if we all agreed on everything all the time), he has the best interest re continuing the forum at heart.

 

[zooterkin]

Wow. Nobody noticed that one.

They've been around a lot longer than the forum, certainly. I was using their resources back in 1997.

 

[Belz...]

...how did my answer not answer your question? Can you be specific?

I was specific in that post and the one right before that.

Ironically, you haven't been clear at all.

Well of course when you ignore part of my post, that's bound to happen.

What a childish response.

It's the only response that will do: since you refuse to answer my question, I can only assume the answer. And since what little you've told me so far lacks any specifics, I can only surmise that you have a vague impression rather than a specific objection.