Future of the Forum

[xterra]

I am relatively new to the forum, as you can see. In the time I have been here, I have come to know and respect many of the members. A few of them know my real name, my location, etc. I have met several in person -- and in fact, there is even evidence of this in the forum. On the other hand, I do not put information into my profile that I don't want people to see, including the numbers of my bank accounts or my driver's license.

I will follow the forum when it moves. I will not, however, join Facebook or similar social media. So if the forum disappears, so does my involvement. I would be sorry about this, and hope it doesn't happen.

I am also sorry that Darat will not remain; as far as I could determine, he carried out a difficult job in a responsible manner. From my perspective, the same can be said for the Administrators and Moderators.

The Membership Agreement and rules as they currently exist are worth preserving on a new forum. They aren't perfect, but they're surely better than no rules; and having no rules would be a sure way to kill the forum.

 

[remirol]

I didn't realize Darat had left in a huff.

It was probably more like a minute and a huff.

 

[El Greco]

I propose we treat the JREF in the same way it has treated us: Completely ignore them.

The forum is not the database maintained by the JREF. The forum is its people. The people have a right to decide whether they will accept whatever "arrangement" the JREF have made without letting anyone know or whether they will administer themselves the new forum. It's perfectly doable to run a new forum in a democratic way. We don't have to move like sheep to the "new status" and have a new "master" dictate the rules and choose the moderators.

 

[Lucian]

I just assumed the forum would always be here.

This forum rates highly in google and is highly influential in society for that reason. I had my mind changed about things because I would always come across this forum back when I was very wrong about matters of science and googling strange keywords. I thank my lucky stars every day I have a different view of life now as the rewards of rationality are rich. Again, this forum rates very high in google. Also, this forum rates very high in google. As well, this forum rates very high in google.

Someone who understands such things explained to me last night that one practical benefit the forum offers the JREF is a very substantial boost in Google rankings.

 

[zooterkin]

Darat was the forum admin that did most of the upkeep along with the mods. From the vitriolic emails he sent, he was very angry about the forum being transitioned.

Not exactly. He, like (I assume) the rest of the mod team, was primarily angry that changes were made to the forum, and announcements were made, without even the simple courtesy of notifying the team, let alone consulting about the best way forward.

 

[Darat]

Well, this part is wrong:

As a general rule, the JREF will not disclose or share any of your personally identifiable information except if you have given permission or when we believe in good faith that the law requires it.
​

Actually it's not wrong, as the "general rule" statement covers their asses in that respect. But at the very least, misleading: the birthday in particular is made public against users' consent, via a "Happy Birthday" sign next to the username in that day.

I have an astrologer stalking me from time to time (he's quite nuts). He wants to do his tricks to his public using my birthday, and I don't want him to get grip of it by any means.

When I registered, DOB info was not mandatory, and I didn't enter it because it's something that I do want to keep private. By then I was aware that the "Happy Birthday" thing happened from just reading the forum.

At some point, it became mandatory. I then started to get errors when trying to update my profile. I raised it with an administrator back then (Darat? not sure), and I was told that it's mandatory and I just had to enter it if I wanted to update my info. Since I didn't want to, because of the "Happy Birthday" thing, I have been unable to update that part of my profile since then.

So, I have to laugh at the privacy concerns of the people who have trusted their data to an organization that is disclosing my personal data against their own privacy policy.

That said, other than DOB, email, and password, there's no other info I want to keep private. I've even posted my real name in the public part of my profile.

I hope that the new forum will be more careful about treatment of personal data. If real DOB is mandatory, chances are I won't register.

A real date of birth was only ever required for about 6 weeks 8 years ago. The DOB field is like all the other optional profile fields. Whether your DOB appears is a user option, on new accounts it defaults to not sharing it.

 

[pgimeno]

A real date of birth was only ever required for about 6 weeks 8 years ago. The DOB field is like all the other optional profile fields. Whether your DOB appears is a user option, on new accounts it defaults to not sharing it.

That's encouraging. I didn't know that. I repeat my apologies. I could easily have entered a made-up date if I knew that being mandatory was just a quirk of the software, and that no "happy birthday" was going to be shown.

ETA:
My recollection was wrong. This is the PM I sent to you:

Hello,

I have received a birthday email today which I don't want to receive anymore. I tried to delete my birth date from my profile but it says I have to contact an administrator about that, so that's what I'm doing.

Please clear my birth data from my profile, or tell me who can do so if you're not the right person.

Thanks in advance,

Pedro Gimeno

It was you who erased my birth data on my request for that reason. Unfortunately, that also blocked me from editing my profile any further.

I hope these kinds of things don't happen in the new forum.

 

[Klimax]

Which are they? I only see one.

Just an FYI for the community, somebody with admin rights to the forum (not me, I don't have them) is apparently playing games with other admins and mods rights. No idea of motive or purpose, we're locking it down to prevent damage.

Which "we" is that, anyone who knows what they are doing - sorry for being so blunt but this seems just another screw-up by the JREF folk not communicating to the people they need to. The JREF Staff account has posted states that the demotions are not a result of a hack, but didn't think to even mention to the affected admins that they were to be be demoted to moderator status before they demoted them. Or even afterwards so they did not panic?

Which "we" is that, anyone who knows what they are doing - sorry for being so blunt but this seems just another screw-up by the JREF folk not communicating to the people they need to. The JREF Staff account has posted states that the demotions are not a result of a hack, but didn't think to even mention to the affected admins that they were to be be demoted to moderator status before they demoted them. Or even afterwards so they did not panic?

Well, both JREF staff and several admins have emailed me to ask if I know what's going on. You know more than me.

This thread, about three pages back.

No idea WTF is happening there or who is in right and who is in wrong.

Note: At least one post is missins above. Haven't yet found it.

...he's been extremely polite on the forums, but you can't blame him for getting angry behind the scenes. Because as I've already stated: this whole thing is an unprofessional trainwreck, and this is the reason why people are throwing their hands in the air and walking away.

And I'm not sure if we can accept the claim of "vitriolic emails" as a given to be honest. One person's vitriol is another person's mild rebuke. If Darat is still around, I'm sure he will give us his version.

First on my mind too. Darat vitriolic? But then I never got him angry...

 

[lionking]

Not exactly. He, like (I assume) the rest of the mod team, was primarily angry that changes were made to the forum, and announcements were made, without even the simple courtesy of notifying the team, let alone consulting about the best way forward.

+1000

Now we are supposed to do nothing but treat Sharon with great deference, as we have been told to do by a number of members. And it's a good thing that at least someone from the JREF is spending some time trying to redeem a pathetic communication process.

But what the ****? Outing Darat as the sender of personal, but so-called "vitriolic" emails? What is this meant to achieve?

Darat has spent countless hours keeping this place alive and running. Not only does he get no prior notification of what was to happen, no request for advice on how to "transition" (an interesting euphemism for "dump") and no thanks, but he's been outed as an angry, bitter sender of vitriolic messages.

The treatment of Darat and the mods by the JREF has been shameful. Sharon, you should apologise to Darat on behalf of the Foundation.

 

[Cuddles]

I believe Rick Adams, Sharon Hill (idoubtit), Icerat... are acting in good faith.

Unfortunately, I am far from convinced this is the case.

 

[lionking]

Unfortunately, I am far from convinced this is the case.

Same here.

 

[pgimeno]

This thread, about three pages back.

No idea WTF is happening there or who is in right and who is in wrong.

It sounds like a single consistent story to me, no contradiction.

- Someone with admin rights starts to play with the administrator accounts rights.
- When that situation is detected, the forum is closed for an hour or so, to demote all admins and leave only one trusted person with admin rights (Rick Adams), fixing permissions etc.
- As a result, the admins get pissed off for being demoted without warning.

 

[lionking]

It sounds like a single consistent story to me, no contradiction.

- Someone with admin rights starts to play with the administrator accounts rights.
- When that situation is detected, the forum is closed for an hour or so, to demote all admins and leave only one trusted person with admin rights (Rick Adams), fixing permissions etc.
- As a result, the admins get pissed off for being demoted without warning.

Really? I guess you have pretty good evidence then. Fire away.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I got to chat with icerat extensively yesterday and I do believe he's acting in good faith. For everyone who's concerned that he's getting the forum solely because he said dibs first, while that is true, they got lucky that the first person to call dibs seems a very good guy.

I think Sharon is acting in good faith, but she's just telling us what the JREF is telling her. But since I in no way believe the JREF is acting in good faith, I don't think what she's telling us in any way reliable.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

It sounds like a single consistent story to me, no contradiction.

- Someone with admin rights starts to play with the administrator accounts rights.
- When that situation is detected, the forum is closed for an hour or so, to demote all admins and leave only one trusted person with admin rights (Rick Adams), fixing permissions etc.
- As a result, the admins get pissed off for being demoted without warning.

Absolutely wrong.

 

[pgimeno]

Absolutely wrong.

I'm just saying it's consistent with what is posted so far, not that it's right.

 

[Olowkow]

This is all very upsetting, and if Darat is angry, I'm angry.

Darat should have been offered the position of total control of the forum years ago, having the power to choose his consultants, assistants and experts with a board consisting of elected members to oversee his management.

 

[MikeG]

Unfortunately, I am far from convinced this is the case.

That's potentially quite a big thing to say. Perhaps you could expand on this? Do you think there are individuals in that list working for their own self-interest, rather than that of the forum?

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

I got to chat with icerat extensively yesterday and I do believe he's acting in good faith. For everyone who's concerned that he's getting the forum solely because he said dibs first, while that is true, they got lucky that the first person to call dibs seems a very good guy.

I think Sharon is acting in good faith, but she's just telling us what the JREF is telling her. But since I in no way believe the JREF is acting in good faith, I don't think what she's telling us in any way reliable.

So why don't we all leave JREF then? Let icerat set up a new forum and we all head over there. I know people with seniority because of number of posts will not like it, but perhaps the new forum can import the JREF join date and number of posts, if the poster asks for it.

 

[madurobob]

So why don't we all leave JREF then? Let icerat set up a new forum and we all head over there. I know people with seniority because of number of posts will not like it, but perhaps the new forum can import the JREF join date and number of posts, if the poster asks for it.

Because a huge part of the value of the forum is the archive. If its not migrated, its lost.