arthwollipot
Limerick Purist
^This.
Future of the Forum
- Thread starter idoubtit
- Start date
-
- Tags
- future of forum isf new forum
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
I think JREF is making a big mistake by staying its current course. I think the decision makers are seriously underestimating the public profile that the forum brings to the Foundation. The vast majority of of people here came here because they heard about the forum before they even knew what JREF was. I came here myself from Apollohoax.net on a recommendation from a member there.
Having said that, none of what is happening is Sharon's fault. She's the messenger not the decision maker.
^THIS, in spades!
jasonpatterson
Philanthropic Misanthrope
The difficulty is that they probably do, and it would be an awful lot easier for them to just turn this off than to let someone new access the user information.
People have been talking about real names and such as important information, but honestly that crap is in the phone book. The bigger issue is that a lot of people (not me) use the same username and password everywhere. I'm willing to bet that you'd be transferring more than a few bank account username/password combos to a new entity with this.
It seems like the sort of thing someone who doesn't know anything about the back half of all of this mess would suggest, but I wonder if it would be possible to force every user to verify their account and reset their password (via an email link) prior to logging in on the new forum. That way the only information that would be need to be transferred would be a username and email address.
Perhaps a more realistic solution would be keeping an archive of all of the existing material and forcing every user to recreate their account on the new forum. It would lose lots of accounts, but none of the privacy concerns would be an issue.
I wonder what the JREF forums Terms of Service actually say regarding the information we've given them...
ETA: It's pretty clear.
From the Registration Agreement
Of course there is the Privacy Statement that basically says the same thing at the bottom of every page.
Specifically:
"As a general rule" gives some wiggle room, I guess.
Last edited:
Thanks. Not on facebook, but I'll post in the other thread.
I understand it won't be there if the nuclear bomb goes off, but I'll keep at least one screenshot and that should be enough to engage whatever networking remains after the Apocalypse.
Call me "prepper boy."
I agree. Mods and Admins go through a vetting process and are accountable for their actions, yet an unknown "we" can shut the forum for an ill-defined reason. Who are "we"?
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
What...so the JREF board has to be approved by us or accountable to us because we happen to be members of the forum? Or they have to get our permission to shut down a forum they own?
I agree it'd be nice and desirable for them to communicate with us more; but you rather rather overestimate your importance if you think they're somehow accountable to you, or need your permission to do anything.
Nice strawman.
The issue is that it's tied to their posts. Again, people have posted about how they fear their atheism, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc could have real life implications if the people around them knew - with their work, marriage, parents and so on.
That information is most certainly NOT in the phone book.
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
RemieV -- I don't understand the objection...if they've posted that information publicly in the forums, then it is not private information. You are responsible for information you've posted publicly, not the JREF, or the new owner.
Last edited:
banquetbear
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2003
- Messages
- 1,765
...for goodness sake we get it. You want people to be positive. But you aren't the thought police and you don't get to control the discussion. Let people express themselves for goodness sake. The handling of this has been a complete disaster with no transparency at all. Of course we aren't "owed" answers. But people are entitled to ask the question: and this is the appropriate place to do it.
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
Then explain your point. The people who shut down the forum are obviously the JREF. That's self-evident. So what information is it that you're demanding?
banquetbear
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2003
- Messages
- 1,765
...the members only forums can be viewed by the general public? Since when?
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
Asking questions, yes -- I've done plenty of that myself. I'm not saying don't ask questions.
Bitching endlessly, no. There's wisdom to the saying about having the strength to change the things I can, the patience to accept the things I cannot change, and the wisdom to tell the difference.
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
Sorry, but no legal entity around would consider information posted publicly in a 'members-only' forum to be privileged or private information. You've put it out there with the implicit knowledge that you have no control whatoever over who will see it (since you have no control over who is or is not a member).
Privacy issues concern information that was given to the JREF only; not things that you posted in the forums, whether it be the general forums, or members-only.
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
To clarify the issue of people posting 'private' information in the members-only section:
1) That information does not fall under the privacy agreement the JREF made when you became a member...you didn't give that info in private to the JREF, you posted it in public where many people can see it
2) There is no forum rule, and no law, that would prevent someone from copying information that you posted in the members-only section, and posting it in the public section of the forums
3) Presumably, the new forums will have a similar structure, with members-only and public sections; and the initial members will be the same as they are now...so what exactly is the problem?
4) If someone who knows these people became a member of the forums, and saw their 'private' information in the members-only section...would the JREF somehow be liable or responsible for that? Of course not.
1) That information does not fall under the privacy agreement the JREF made when you became a member...you didn't give that info in private to the JREF, you posted it in public where many people can see it
2) There is no forum rule, and no law, that would prevent someone from copying information that you posted in the members-only section, and posting it in the public section of the forums
3) Presumably, the new forums will have a similar structure, with members-only and public sections; and the initial members will be the same as they are now...so what exactly is the problem?
4) If someone who knows these people became a member of the forums, and saw their 'private' information in the members-only section...would the JREF somehow be liable or responsible for that? Of course not.
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
Again -- It's already been established that all personal information except your forum name and password can be deleted prior to transferring the forum. This is a complete, 100%, absolute non-issue.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Err, AFAIK, the only forums that cannot be viewed by the general public are these ones
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20
Forum Community
Humor
Movies, TV, Music, Computer Gaming, and other Entertainment
Puzzles
Sports
I doubt you will find "sensitive personal data: in there anywhere.
Everything else seems to be viewable to me when I am logged out, so non-forum members must also be able to see it.
Audible Click
The gap in the plot
On the bright side, there is now a rather large Facebook group of forumites, in a pinch those of us on FB can contact each other if necessary. 
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I have a cat. I call her Maple. She's pretty dumb. It's clear there's not an ounce of malice anywhere in her body. It's equally obvious that nothing could be further from her mind than the criteria by which I judge her.
She's off on her own trajectory, thinking her own thoughts, contemplating life on her own dumb cat wavelength. She lives in my house, eats my food, and sleeps in my bed. But every time our paths cross, it comes as a complete surprise to her. That's how totally orthogonal our priorities--the very lives we each live--are to each other. I'm convinced she's only dimly aware of me at all, and thinks of me in vague, transient bursts. To her I'm a momentary itch, a distraction on her road to other things entirely.
There are plenty of people in the world for whom curatorship of an Internet forum is entirely incidental to the important things in life. It seems to me quite likely that the leadership team of the JREF are such people, and that the forum is not actually important enough for the question of professionalism to even arise. Certainly my cat Maple has yet to deal with me in a professional manner. I put it down to her essential cat nature, and don't hold it against her that she does not demonstrate any awareness of my human rights and dignity, against which she constantly offends.
She's off on her own trajectory, thinking her own thoughts, contemplating life on her own dumb cat wavelength. She lives in my house, eats my food, and sleeps in my bed. But every time our paths cross, it comes as a complete surprise to her. That's how totally orthogonal our priorities--the very lives we each live--are to each other. I'm convinced she's only dimly aware of me at all, and thinks of me in vague, transient bursts. To her I'm a momentary itch, a distraction on her road to other things entirely.
There are plenty of people in the world for whom curatorship of an Internet forum is entirely incidental to the important things in life. It seems to me quite likely that the leadership team of the JREF are such people, and that the forum is not actually important enough for the question of professionalism to even arise. Certainly my cat Maple has yet to deal with me in a professional manner. I put it down to her essential cat nature, and don't hold it against her that she does not demonstrate any awareness of my human rights and dignity, against which she constantly offends.