• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Future of the Forum

I was at the BA forum when Phil migrated it to BAUT. It was done openly and with a plan. He explained he was considering moving it and asked anyone with concerns to discuss them. Then a few days later he announced the move, who would be taking over and when. Furthermore, it was to an entity (Universe Today) that many of the users already knew. Phil and UT both came up with a plan to make the transition smooth, and he stayed on as an admin for a while.

This event has none of those factors. No transperancy, no plan, no period for voicing of concerns or questions, not even with the mods or admin. It can be done well, but the 'move' was just dumped with no plan, and the uncertainty is quite disconcerting. Had this happened while my job was still at stake (I worked for a major conservative xian org when I joined) I would be even more upset. At worst now I'll have to answer a few awkward questions and move on, though I hope I don't.
 
Digital Dan said:
Why?

If somebody doesn't use an account within your arbitrary time limit, then what's the point in deactivating it? All it does is keeps them from logging in at a later time. If they want to log in, then you should let them, which means the hassle of reactivating it. If they don't, then deactivating the account won't matter. {Snip}
Click to expand...

It's not a hassle to reactivate an account, it is a relatively simple thing to re-direct a first log-in informing a user of what has happened and asking them what they would like to do, and let them choose or to contact an admin. I would respond by asking why a forumite SHOULDN'T have the right to their privacy as the default, even if it means a few minutes of coding for an admin?

This was a big enough deal for me to unlurk, and on facebook and other forums has caught the attention of a lot of others who have either lapsed or lurk as well, who want to claim or adjust their account if things (say, the privacy policy) are being dumped by the former owners without notice.
 
Jeff Wagg said:
My goal here would be to accomplish the following things:
1) move the forum off JREF servers
2) stabilize the software
3) Send a mass e-mail to every account on the forum announcing the change
4) Delete all private messages before 5 Aug
5) Completely delete any account that requests it
6) Get on the business of maintaining the community​
It's my hope that the present moderating staff will stay in place. Several have agreed to do so. Also, an old technical advisor has agreed to come out of the woodwork and help us get where we need to be.

In order for the forum to succeed, it will need to generate enough income to pay for the servers. I don't think that would be too difficult.

If you have suggestions for changes to be made, that's great, but until the above goals are met, I don't think we should think about implementing them.

The forum community owes Randi the JREF a debt of gratitude for its very existence. Things haven't always been smooth, but the gratitude is still warranted.

Also, from what I've seen, Sharon Hill has been instrumental in trying to save the forum, as has Icerat.

That's where I'm coming from.
Click to expand...

I think the 5th August thing needs attention, but that apart, this sounds good to me.
There has always been a split between JREF and the Forum. We forumites have always felt a bit undervalued. I don't know how right we are. It may well be possible that TAM might not have happened without the forum (or might have happened much later). It is certain that the Forum would not have happened without James Randi.
We are all a bit sensitive right now, because an old curmudgeon slapped us on the butt. It certainly started us breathing though.

So farewell JREF, we salute you. Now let's land this thing and get exploring.
 
Last edited:
I would not expect the username to change. Just a removal of personal info like real name and address. This does not include the email you use to create the account. To reactivate is similar to a password reset, I would request an email with a link in it be sent to the email associated with my account. I've seen it happen before, I'm pretty sure with this crowd someone could figure out how to make it happen here, too. For most regular users, I suspect they could identify each other even with changed names by asking about an event or how they met irl as well, though that wouldn't work for everyone--thus the "please reactivate upon first sign-in" universal, across the board.

Or accept a new privacy agreement, or something. Or even just a disclaimer with a link to message a moderator with any concerns. Something so people will know what happened while they were out. I like the idea of deactivating the account, but there may be other acceptable solutions.
 
Last edited:
iiwo said:
This event has none of those factors. No transperancy, no plan, no period for voicing of concerns or questions, not even with the mods or admin.
Click to expand...
There is no denying this has been handled less then ideally. Please be patient...being optimistic at the moment, hopefully these things will come.
 
Although I'm for the deletion of the private information given at sign-up, I would favor making deletion of accounts opt-in rather than opt-out. As a long-time lurker who often does not sign in, would I be in danger of having my account deleted if I happened to take a break for a while and missed the notification email?

If necessary, how about only deleting accounts that have never had any activity aside from the sign-up for several years?

Edit: The ideas posted above about confirming acceptance of a new privacy agreement seems like a reasonable alternative to deleting accounts.
 
Last edited:
I only scanned the first couple pages, but someone must have mentioned the copyright assignment issue as well as the privacy issues in the 13 pages of chat before this, right? It seems pretty clear that users assigned limited rights to their created content to the JREF, not to Non-JREF.

I worry that transferring the bulk of the data in an opt-out fashion, and sending a bulk email on behalf of an organization other than the JREF might be problematic, and open the JREF up to civil suits.

While they seem to be trivial to many, and even to me in some regards, I think they're real enough of a concern that the new site may need to be fully opt-in to break any ties to the JREF (if I'm reading the thread correctly here, and that's the intent...).

JREF can bulk email us, depending on the settings we selected, but that mailing list in the hands of a third party smells like generic canned pork product.
 
Rougarou said:
Although I'm for the deletion of the private information given at sign-up, I would favor making deletion of accounts opt-in rather than opt-out. As a long-time lurker who often does not sign in, would I be in danger of having my account deleted if I happened to take a break for a while and missed the notification email?

If necessary, how about only deleting accounts that have never had any activity aside from the sign-up for several years?

Edit: The ideas posted above about confirming acceptance of the new privacy agreements seems like a perfectly reasonable alternative to deleting accounts to me.
Click to expand...

Deletion would be of the personal information tied to the account, not the account itself. Or so is my current understanding.
------

I can be patient, I was more being grumpy at the lack of notice and transperancy than what will necessarily be a delay while things are rearranged.
 
xinit said:
I only scanned the first couple pages, but someone must have mentioned the copyright assignment issue as well as the privacy issues in the 13 pages of chat before this, right? It seems pretty clear that users assigned limited rights to their created content to the JREF, not to Non-JREF.

I worry that transferring the bulk of the data in an opt-out fashion, and sending a bulk email on behalf of an organization other than the JREF might be problematic, and open the JREF up to civil suits.

While they seem to be trivial to many, and even to me in some regards, I think they're real enough of a concern that the new site may need to be fully opt-in to break any ties to the JREF (if I'm reading the thread correctly here, and that's the intent...).

JREF can bulk email us, depending on the settings we selected, but that mailing list in the hands of a third party smells like generic canned pork product.
Click to expand...

RemieV brought this up at one point after the shift was announced on page six. I would vote opt-in as well for your reasons and those mentioned elsewhere. Not sure how to work the copywrite issue, though I suspect the JREF should be able to transfer or waive their rights to any material originating on the forum.

Considering one of the factors with ditching the forum was the issue of lawsuits being brought (mostly frivolous I would imagine), this was not well handled and could in theory open them up to some less than frivolous lawsuits. I hope it goes well and without legal trouble, I enjoy lurking and occasionally responding. And maybe will start posting regularly, we'll see.
 
icerat said:
That, and some removal of some JREF specific content, is about the only thing that has to change.

Also possibly the hardest part of the process ....
Click to expand...

What content? (I don't think I have seen this specified, what is subject of deletion)
 
xinit said:
JREF can bulk email us, depending on the settings we selected, but that mailing list in the hands of a third party smells like generic canned pork product.
Click to expand...

Well then change your e-mail address, use a throwaway.
 
iiwo said:
I suspect the JREF should be able to transfer or waive their rights to any material originating on the forum.
Click to expand...

If I have been assigned limited rights by a content creator, I believe that I'd be in breach of copyright were I to assign those rights to a third party. Otherwise, the JREF could fund a year of operations by re-assigning the rights to the content in the forums over to Buzzfeed...

I think the only clean / ethical / moral / legal (IANAL) solution is "burn it down and build it again in a new location." Ideally, there would be help from the JREF in notifying users, but the new management shouldn't be the ones bulk mailing us.

Setup a site, post a link, and I'll sign up. If I had any good content, I might request it be copied, or I'd re-post it.
 
George said:
Well then change your e-mail address, use a throwaway.
Click to expand...

Yep. Or block the address in your filter settings. Or unsubscribe and hold them to it. Lots of options once the switch is done. May even be possible to change it now, though I'm not sure how the database works, if there is ONE spot where emails are kept for EVERYTHING related to the JREF, or if forum emails and mailing emails are stored separately. You'd have to act quick, though, to do the latter.
 
George said:
Well then change your e-mail address, use a throwaway.
Click to expand...

So I won't get an unsolicited email? That's not my point. My point is that the JREF would be party to that spam by selling (or giving away) a mailing list, which is a privacy issue as well. I'm concerned not about something in my mailbox, but in the legal liability that might affect the JREF and the people who use and run the forums.
 
Klimax said:
What content? (I don't think I have seen this specified, what is subject of deletion)
Click to expand...

I'd assume the JREF, MDC & Swift Commentary sub-fora would be on the chopping block. The Amaz!ng Meeting! and other Skeptical Events should at least have its name changed.
 
Klimax said:
What content? (I don't think I have seen this specified, what is subject of deletion)
Click to expand...

The MDC area is the main thing, which will be moved to the new JREF site. I'm actually not clear if they want that content removed or just moved under a less specific section. Other areas will be moved around a little and renamed just so there's no risk of people thinking they have JREF endorsement.
 
Last edited:
Xinit, those are real concerns. My hope is that a single mass e-mail can be sent while the software is still on the JREF server. After that, mail will be opt-in. We have some difficult circumstances though, so we're only promising to do the best we can.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom