Future of the Forum

[Sherman Bay]

There is no planned support for the Forum from the JREF. It will be detached from the org. I understand this may be confusing but the Forum is very much its own thing seperate from the org and currently does not fit into the narrowed mission.

That is a major, BIG mistake. Either the Powers That Be don't understand technology (since 1970, that is) or they are otherwise blind to the situation. This Forum should be a major focus of JREF, big time.

Are they ignoring the Internet, also? Going back to paper mailing, billboards, newspapers and magazines to get the word out? Is that how education works nowdays?

Anyone for a McGuffey Reader or a slate?

 

[Lisa Simpson]

That is a major, BIG mistake. Either the Powers That Be don't understand technology (since 1970, that is) or they are otherwise blind to the situation. This Forum should be a major focus of JREF, big time.

Are they ignoring the Internet, also? Going back to paper mailing, billboards, newspapers and magazines to get the word out?

Randi has NEVER understood the value of the forum. I'd had hopes when Adam Savage was named to the board, that he'd be more understanding of it, but alas, no. I hope he didn't play any part in the decision to close us down. I'd hate to like him less.

 

[Spindrift]

That is a major, BIG mistake. Either the Powers That Be don't understand technology (since 1970, that is) or they are otherwise blind to the situation. This Forum should be a major focus of JREF, big time.

Are they ignoring the Internet, also? Going back to paper mailing, billboards, newspapers and magazines to get the word out?

No, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, etc. should be their focus. Sites that can get the word out to millions inexpensively and very quickly. I don't know if that's their plan but that's what it should be.

Our forum has about 2000 active users. A D-list celebrity like Mickey Dolenz has 17,000+ followers. (Not picking on Mickey, just happened to see him on TV the other night.) A forum is not nearly as efficient as a lot of other methods.

Don't get me wrong, I like this forum. I've been here a long time and participate regularly, but let's not make this forum out to be something it's not.

 

[Michel H]

You do realize that people from JREF itself almost never participate in this forum? So whether or not it exists really has little bearing on the operation of JREF and whether or not it slides into dogmatism or anything else.

I think this is an error. Perhaps they want to give an impression that they are an "elite" of superior people, who wouldn't want to mix with the "ordinary people". If they are really so good, they should really prove it through the quality of their interaction with people.

 

[Spindrift]

I haven't been asked to become a member unless you count the little Donate button. Neither the welcome message I received here nor the e-mail verifications asked me to join. Those messages didn't even mention that there's a www.randi.org I could visit. Or TAM. Or JREF memberships.

You haven't been around long enough, they do send out donations/membership requests occasionally. Not that they could have done a much better job of it, but as others have pointed out the forum has always been at best an afterthought.

 

[AdMan]

Randi has NEVER understood the value of the forum. I'd had hopes when Adam Savage was named to the board, that he'd be more understanding of it, but alas, no. I hope he didn't play any part in the decision to close us down. I'd hate to like him less.

I heard things at TAM that hinted (well, more than hinted) a decision had been taken some time--not sure how long--before then. So unless he was involved in decision making a while before the official announcement of his joining the board, I don't think Savage played a part.

 

[Sherman Bay]

Randi has NEVER understood the value of the forum.

It pains me to say this, but the Olde Guard will pass soon. Perhaps the next generation will realize the value.

No, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, etc. should be their focus. Sites that can get the word out to millions inexpensively and very quickly. I don't know if that's their plan but that's what it should be.

Let's nitpick, shall we? All of those, plus the Forum, should be in the mix. Each has their advantages. Want to get the word out quickly? Twitter. But try to put an essay or debate on Twitter sometime, or try to carry on a serious discussion, or find a relevant one.

 

[Donn]

Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I heard things at TAM that hinted (well, more than hinted) a decision had been taken some time--not sure how long--before then. So unless he was involved in decision making a while before the official announcement of his joining the board, I don't think Savage played a part.

I'm glad of that, anyway.

 

[Spindrift]

So why did you reply to my comment "Personally, I am flabbergasted that the JREF would give up an asset this valuable" saying that value is relative and ask me if I'm a member or not?

I went on to say, "The fact that they haven't figured out how to leverage it to further their goals reflects poorly on those in charge."

Seems you agree with that notion.

You've seen the Donate button, that brings you to a membership page where you can sign up. You haven't done so. You aren't unusual, the vast majority of people here are not members, myself included.

I agree they have never figured out how to leverage the forum fully, but then again JREF is a small organization. I think there's less than 10 employees, including Jame Randi. The main focus of JREF has been lectures, TAM and getting Randi an occasional media interview. From the JREF point of view, I can understand them thinking that they shouldn't have to preach to the choir (us). We should be the one's to step up without a lot of marketing, but that hasn't been the case.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.

It would be quite a draw if the 'name' board members participated in discussions here, even occassionally. It would certainly give the impression they were involved and approachable.

Then again, that may be the flaw.

 

[temporalillusion]

Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.

http://talkfreethought.org/ is the other forum of this kind that I sometimes frequent, used to be free ratio and part of Internet Infidels before that if I recall correctly.

As someone already mentioned, no link at all to JREF would probably mean reduced visibility and less incoming users, and some people leaving, on the other hand it's starting with an existing user base is further ahead than the vast majority of forums.

I guess that's two other questions that maybe can be at least considered... is there an existing forum with similar enough goals that could be the new home for this forum's members? Does make the whole transition easier, though I expect that's not what most people who care would want.

A related question, is there maybe another skeptic type organization what could take on the forum? Would that even be desirable? Does the community have to exist in the context of and for the purpose of supporting/facilitating/whatever some other goal, or is the community existing on its own for the purpose of existing sufficient? Kind of relates to the questions about ownership and who sets policy politics etc etc.

 

[Sherman Bay]

Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.

Two that immediately come to mind are The Straight Dope and GiraffeBoards. Although many members here are also members there, each board has its distinctive ambiance.

 

[Spindrift]

It pains me to say this, but the Olde Guard will pass soon. Perhaps the next generation will realize the value.

Let's nitpick, shall we? All of those, plus the Forum, should be in the mix. Each has their advantages. Want to get the word out quickly? Twitter. But try to put an essay or debate on Twitter sometime, or try to carry on a serious discussion, or find a relevant one.

It's not nitpicking. A forum is an inefficient means of communication and fraught with problems that most organizations don't want to deal with. How many advocacy organizations run their own forum like this one?

They have randi.org for essays and articles.

The forum is very valuable to me, you and most of the people on it. It's not that valuable to JREF itself.

 

[jsfisher]

It's a common problem. People have learned to put in fine print to cover ownership changes.

A simple way is just to purge all identifiable info for the migration, leaving username and (encrypted) password, and when the transfer happens people have to agree to new terms to login.

People may have learned that, and it may be that fine print you mention does appear in many places, but not the Membership Agreement for this forum.

As for a general PII purge, don't forget private messages. All PMs would need to be deleted.

Actually, a case could be made for any post made in a non-public forum would need to be purged, too.

 

[icerat]

http://talkfreethought.org/ is the other forum of this kind that I sometimes frequent, used to be free ratio and part of Internet Infidels before that if I recall correctly.

As someone already mentioned, no link at all to JREF would probably mean reduced visibility and less incoming users, and some people leaving, on the other hand it's starting with an existing user base is further ahead than the vast majority of forums.

Sharon has said the JREF website will continue to promote the forum where appropriate, including posting. Just no resources (or liability)

I guess that's two other questions that maybe can be at least considered... is there an existing forum with similar enough goals that could be the new home for this forum's members? Does make the whole transition easier, though I expect that's not what most people who care would want.

If we do this right, not much should change but the name. Same members, same content.

A related question, is there maybe another skeptic type organization what could take on the forum? Would that even be desirable? Does the community have to exist in the context of and for the purpose of supporting/facilitating/whatever some other goal, or is the community existing on its own for the purpose of existing sufficient? Kind of relates to the questions about ownership and who sets policy politics etc etc.

I've suggested privately the idea of perhaps merging with one of the other forums/sites that have (in effect) broken away in the past, nobody has yet been supportive of the idea.

There is zero reason this community cannot continue much the same way as it has to date.

But it's up to the community to make it happen.

 

[Slowvehicle]

I has a sad, and a question:

When?

When will this happen?

This forum is dear to me, and I will hate to lose it. Any move is going to involve some inevitable losses. If JREF really is letting go, when will whatever happens, happen?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Sharon has said the JREF website will continue to promote the forum where appropriate, including posting. Just no resources (or liability)

If we do this right, not much should change but the name. Same members, same content.

I've suggested privately the idea of perhaps merging with one of the other forums/sites that have (in effect) broken away in the past, nobody has yet been supportive of the idea.

There is zero reason this community cannot continue much the same way as it has to date.

But it's up to the community to make it happen.

For the first time since December, I will be able to pay a (modest) subscription starting in September.

And, if it is considered worth continuing, I will go on with the TLAFP.

Is there anything else I can do to help?

 

[jsfisher]

In case anyone is curious:

I have deleted every PM and every email I have ever received including those I have received over the years from people who have had to prove their identity. They are all gone.

Thank you.

 

[Whyatica]

Not really going to comment on the forums issue, just with a fix for the login issues that people are having:

If you add this line to your hosts file (in OS X it's under /etc/hosts, don't know about other OSes), flush your Safari cache and/or DNS cache, you should be able to log in:

67.228.115.45 forums.randi.org