Merged deliberate obstruction by the CIA of pre-9/11 investigations?

[jimd3100]

Al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar were ID'ed by way of the infamous Yemen hub. That hub was associated with the '98 embassy bombings and the Cole attack. Alec Station deputy Wilshire knew they were a threat because of this association. So I don't know why you suggest they were just some random guys.

No Beachnut's conspiracy theory is that they were suspected "college students". These "students" going to school to learn to fly Boeing Commercial aircraft..........

Even if the terrorists were funded for their stay in America by Saudis, it would be the same as parents funding a kid to go to college, and then the kid go nuts and kills people at the school; the parents did not know the kid was nuts.

LOL!
Where is your Pulitzer? Lawrence Wright has it. He won it with the book that destroys your silly conspiracy theory........

The CIA already had the names of Mihdhar and Hazmi , however. Saeed Badeeb, Prince Turki's chief analyst in Saudi intelligence had previously alerted his American colleagues that they were members of al-Qaeda. -page 351
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1400030846/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

"Saudi intelligence had previously alerted his American colleagues that they were members of al-Qaeda" ----ooops...looks like they knew their kids were nuts....there goes your pulitzer and into the hands of Lawrence Wright.

Looks like the CIA and Saudis were sharing info on these guys but not the FBI. Protecting the Saudis protects the CIA, and White House.

Sen. Graham: Bush covered up Saudi involvement in 9/11
http://www.salon.com/2004/09/08/graham_8/

According to the joint Inquiry and the FBI Penttbom investigators Omar Al-Bayoumi was a Saudi Intelligence agent who paid their rent and enrolled these two into flight schools.

Did you tell the FBI?

The FBI Penttbom investigators already know.

Did you tell the FBI? What did they say.

According to Paul Sperry who's talked to them.......

UPDATE- Paul Sperry responds: “Unger and Moore have their own agendas. mine aligns with the FBI WFO case agents and FCPD* detectives who say they’ll never forgive the Bush admin for throttling their investigation of leads back to Saudi Embassy and Bandar himself in McLean. they view the former POTUS as a traitor.”
http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/12/1...l-moore-bush-saudi-claims-from-fahrenheit-911

 

[Justin39640]

No Beachnut's conspiracy theory is that they were suspected "college students". These "students" going to school to learn to fly Boeing Commercial aircraft..........



LOL!
Where is your Pulitzer? Lawrence Wright has it. He won it with the book that destroys your silly conspiracy theory........

The CIA already had the names of Mihdhar and Hazmi , however. Saeed Badeeb, Prince Turki's chief analyst in Saudi intelligence had previously alerted his American colleagues that they were members of al-Qaeda. -page 351
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1400030846/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

"Saudi intelligence had previously alerted his American colleagues that they were members of al-Qaeda" ----ooops...looks like they knew their kids were nuts....there goes your pulitzer and into the hands of Lawrence Wright.

Looks like the CIA and Saudis were sharing info on these guys but not the FBI. Protecting the Saudis protects the CIA, and White House.

Sen. Graham: Bush covered up Saudi involvement in 9/11
http://www.salon.com/2004/09/08/graham_8/

According to the joint Inquiry and the FBI Penttbom investigators Omar Al-Bayoumi was a Saudi Intelligence agent who paid their rent and enrolled these two into flight schools.



The FBI Penttbom investigators already know.



According to Paul Sperry who's talked to them.......

UPDATE- Paul Sperry responds: “Unger and Moore have their own agendas. mine aligns with the FBI WFO case agents and FCPD* detectives who say they’ll never forgive the Bush admin for throttling their investigation of leads back to Saudi Embassy and Bandar himself in McLean. they view the former POTUS as a traitor.”
http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/12/1...l-moore-bush-saudi-claims-from-fahrenheit-911

The dot connecting and out of context quotes are amazing here.

If the Saudis were helping Al Qaeda, why would they alert the CIA prior to the attacks? More FUBAR, not LIHOP.

 

[beachnut]

No Beachnut's conspiracy theory is that they were suspected "college students". These "students" going to school to learn to fly Boeing Commercial aircraft..........

LOL!
Where is your Pulitzer? Lawrence Wright has it. He won it with the book that destroys your silly conspiracy theory........

Student pilots, you pay for lessons, you be a student, we pilots were students too. The world came to the USA to train to be pilots, the perfect cover for 911 kill the pilot and crash the plane, which you have not sources yet. Your best story has 911 done by 17 nuts, cause you have tow of your nuts renditioned, did they waterboard them in your alternate Bizarro world to get the plot/


Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction : did he have the plot before 911 solved - was the actual plot of 4 planes take over by killing crew in the way so you can make up and use a weapon of mass destruction.

Where do you find all the hearsay - oops you sourced it. Good job.
Do you still think Gage is great

I think you use the same logic you used in your bread and butter days of truthing, the same logic that made you post this.

Steel melted at WTC 7. FEMA admits it and it's public record. Explain that NIST.

What did the FBI say


lawrence wright the looming tower, what page has the plot before 911, solved - page number please - who solved The Big Wedding

Who did 911 - Who murdered thousands -

 

[jimd3100]

What a bunch of BS.

No, a "bunch of BS" is this....

Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were inside of the US... arrested for being ... ???
Wait, we could arrest all Islamic visitors/students ...

Where is your Pulitzer? Lawrence Wright has it. Saudi Intelligence and CIA knew they were not "Islamic visitors/students". They knew they were Al Qaeda Terrorists. Why are you calling known terrorists "students" and "visitors"?

Lawrence Wright:
Yes, the F.B.I. could have stopped 9/11. It had a warrant to establish surveillance of everyone connected to Al Qaeda in America. It could follow them, tap their phones, clone their computers, read their e-mails, and subpoena their medical, bank, and credit-card records. It had the right to demand records from telephone companies of any calls they had made. There was no need for a metadata-collection program. What was needed was cooperation with other federal agencies, but for reasons both petty and obscure those agencies chose to hide vital clues from the investigators most likely to avert the attacks.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/01/13/the-al-qaeda-switchboard

They should never have been allowed to get a visa in the first place. Being a known Al Qaeda terrorist is a pretty good reason to deny a visa.

C.I.A. learned through the Al Qaeda switchboard that the two would be travelling to Malaysia for a meeting in early January. The agency broke into Mihdhar’s hotel room in Dubai and photographed his passport, which had a multi-entry visa to the U.S. That information was not given to the F.B.I.; nor was the State Department told to revoke his visa, or Immigration to place Mihdhar and Hazmi on the list of people forbidden to enter the U.S. The C.I.A. evidently had begun an operation, and it wanted no interference from other government agencies.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/01/13/the-al-qaeda-switchboard

Yesterday 17 terrorists used small knives to cut pilot throats and take 4 planes, not hijacked, but murdered the pilots and took the planes.

Now this is a rational possible conclusion if the two "terrorists" were detained, water-boarded, failed to talk, and 911 still happens.

Why do you want terrorists to get visas to come to America? How are they going to fly planes with no pilots?

Shehhi was one of the pilots of 9-11, his roommate, Atta, was another pilot, and his other roommate was Binalshibh. Ziad al-Jarrah, another pilot, often stayed with them, in Germany.

In March 1999, German intelligence officials gave the Central Intelligence Agency the first name and telephone number of Marwan al-Shehhi, and asked the Americans to track him.

The information concerning Mr. Shehhi, the man who took over the controls of United Airlines Flight 175, which flew into the south tower of the World Trade Center, came months earlier than well-documented tips about other hijackers, including two who were discovered to have attended a meeting of militants in Malaysia in January 2000.

The independent commission investigating the attacks has received information on the 1999 Shehhi tip, and is actively investigating the issue, said Philip Zelikow, executive director of the commission.

Close surveillance of Mr. Shehhi in 1999 might have led investigators to other plot leaders, including Mohammed Atta, who was Mr. Shehhi's roommate.

After receiving the tip, the C.I.A. decided that "Marwan" was probably an associate of Osama bin Laden, but never tracked him down, American officials say.

Soon after, Mr. Shehhi, Mr. Atta and another plotter, Ziad al-Jarrah, began e-mailing several dozen American flight schools from Germany to inquire about enrollment, and they arrived in the United States later in 2000 to begin flight training.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/24/politics/24TERR.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5

After receiving the tip, the C.I.A. decided that "Marwan" was probably an associate of Osama bin Laden, but never tracked him down, American officials say. --WTF? You believe the CIA don't you?

The independent commission investigating the attacks has received information on the 1999 Shehhi tip, and is actively investigating the issue, said Philip Zelikow, executive director of the commission.

What did they say in their report?....

Shehhi obtained his visa on January 18, 2000
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Why do you call Al Qaeda members students? Why do you want them to get Visas to come to America?

Lawrence Wright has your Pulitzer - he might have to give it up when you explain to him these were just students.

An investigation by the C.I.A.’s inspector general found that up to sixty people in the agency knew that Al Qaeda operatives were in America. The inspector general said that those who refused to cooperate with the F.B.I. should be held accountable. Instead, they were promoted.
The C.I.A.’s obstruction of justice in the Cole investigation arguably also was a crime. Its failure to share information from the Al Qaeda switchboard opened the door to the biggest terrorist attack in history. As long as we’re talking about accountability, why shouldn’t we demand it of the C.I.A.?
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/01/13/the-al-qaeda-switchboard

 

[jimd3100]

If the Saudis were helping Al Qaeda, why would they alert the CIA prior to the attacks?

Why were the Saudis helping Al Qaeda?

 

[DGM]

Why were the Saudis helping Al Qaeda?

Exactly. You're turn, connect the dots.

 

[thatsmystory]

The dot connecting and out of context quotes are amazing here.

If the Saudis were helping Al Qaeda, why would they alert the CIA prior to the attacks? More FUBAR, not LIHOP.

By "out of context" do you mean not in line with state sanctioned conclusions?

Maybe some Saudi officials warned the Bush administration for CYA purposes. "Hey we warned you guys! Sure some bigshots in our government wanted the attacks to succeed but that shouldn't matter because we told you they were plotting against you."

What good did it do to alert the CIA? They evidently sat on the intel and watched the attacks happen. If there is a credible explanation for their conduct we have yet to hear it. So far CIA officials and agents have hidden behind national security classification.

Look what happened when the FBI got the information. The UBLU obstructed USS Cole investigation. How sick is that?

 

[LSSBB]

By "out of context" do you mean not in line with state sanctioned conclusions?

Maybe some Saudi officials warned the Bush administration for CYA purposes. "Hey we warned you guys! Sure some bigshots in our government wanted the attacks to succeed but that shouldn't matter because we told you they were plotting against you."

What good did it do to alert the CIA? They evidently sat on the intel and watched the attacks happen. If there is a credible explanation for their conduct we have yet to hear it. So far CIA officials and agents have hidden behind national security classification.

Look what happened when the FBI got the information. The UBLU obstructed USS Cole investigation. How sick is that?

Do you mean credible explanation, that exhonerates the CIA, or credible, like "Yeah, that has some probability of having occurred". I ask, because bureaucratic sluggishness and obstinance is not only possible, it is a determined nuisance in all government agencies.

 

[thatsmystory]

Do you mean credible explanation, that exhonerates the CIA, or credible, like "Yeah, that has some probability of having occurred". I ask, because bureaucratic sluggishness and obstinance is not only possible, it is a determined nuisance in all government agencies.

A credible explanation would account for the disconnect between the CIA giving the White House urgent warnings and withheld information about al Qaeda operatives inside the US. The record indicates that the withholding was deliberate. What is not known is the reason for the withholding. Richard Clarke has stated he believes the CIA wanted to turn al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar. His theory is inconsistent because he concludes that when the recruitment failed the CIA didn't tell anyone out of fear of being held accountable for withholding information. One the record shows the information was shared with the FBI UBLU. We don't know how high the UBLU sharing went inside the FBI. Two wouldn't the prospect of being blamed for facilitation of a massive terrorist attack be more of a concern than mere withholding?

We are left to guess because nobody at the CIA will talk about it.

 

[beachnut]

... left to guess because nobody at the CIA will talk about it.

Your conclusions are guesses. Finally, the truth is. Where they sure guesses, or not so sure guesses.

 

[DGM]

By "out of context" do you mean not in line with state sanctioned conclusions?

No, not in line with context prior to 9/11. You do know what the term "hindsight" means, right?

I'm wondering if you suspect the ticket counter agent in Portsmouth of wrong doing, he did say he was going to stop Mohammed Atta because he "looked like a terrorist". Obviously he was wrong in not stopping him because Mohammed Atta was.

 

[thatsmystory]

No, not in line with context prior to 9/11. You do know what the term "hindsight" means, right?

I'm wondering if you suspect the ticket counter agent in Portsmouth of wrong doing, he did say he was going to stop Mohammed Atta because he "looked like a terrorist". Obviously he was wrong in not stopping him because Mohammed Atta was.

How does a hindsight argument apply when the CIA gave the White House urgent warnings before 9/11? The USS Cole attack took place in 10/00. How does hindsight apply to obstructing that investigation?

My reaction to Michael Touhey was just the opposite. I found it sad the way someone with no reason to second guess himself feels worse than people who had information about al Qaeda operatives and withheld it.

 

[DGM]

How does a hindsight argument apply when the CIA gave the White House urgent warnings before 9/11?

Is this the only time they have given warnings? Do you have any idea how many times a year there a "credible threats" against the US?

The USS Cole attack took place in 10/00. How does hindsight apply to obstructing that investigation?

Two agencies with different agendas and legal protical . (see pre-9/11 politics).

My reaction to Michael Touhey was just the opposite. I found it sad the way someone with no reason to second guess himself feels worse than people who had information about al Qaeda operatives and withheld it.

How do you know this?

Quick question. Could the FBI detain a suspected al Qaeda operative for that reason prior to 9/11? If so, how long and on what reason? (you are aware they have the same rights we do)

 

[Spanx]

How does a hindsight argument apply when the CIA gave the White House urgent warnings before 9/11? The USS Cole attack took place in 10/00. How does hindsight apply to obstructing that investigation?

My reaction to Michael Touhey was just the opposite. I found it sad the way someone with no reason to second guess himself feels worse than people who had information about al Qaeda operatives and withheld it.

That was also before 9/10 but nothing happened. What information did they have regarding dates and places etc ?

Will the next terror attack be stopped ? Are we on high terror alert at the moment ? Who's fault will the next attack be ? Please tell me now, I would like to know so I can report it.

 

[thatsmystory]

Is this the only time they have given warnings? Do you have any idea how many times a year there a "credible threats" against the US?

I'm going by the accounts of CIA officials. They told us how concerned they were. Here's an analogy: Imagine you are a CIA or FBI official and you have several warnings of a Russian mole in your agency. You schedule a special briefing with the National Security Adviser because the threat seems so urgent. Yet even though you have information that Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen are Russian moles you do nothing with the information and they continue stealing information.

Two agencies with different agendas and legal protical . (see pre-9/11 politics).

What was the CIA agenda? Imagine if they had shared the information in January 2000. Maybe both the Cole attack and 9/11 could have been prevented.

Quick question. Could the FBI detain a suspected al Qaeda operative for that reason prior to 9/11? If so, how long and on what reason? (you are aware they have the same rights we do)

Kenneth Maxwell, Soufan’s former supervisor, told me, “Two Al Qaeda guys living in California—are you kidding me? We would have been on them like white on snow: physical surveillance, electronic surveillance, a special unit devoted entirely to them.”

 

[thatsmystory]

That was also before 9/10 but nothing happened. What information did they have regarding dates and places etc ?

Will the next terror attack be stopped ? Are we on high terror alert at the moment ? Who's fault will the next attack be ? Please tell me now, I would like to know so I can report it.

Alec Station deputy chief Tom Wilshire had al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar linked to the next al Qaeda attack. His email was released at the Moussaoui trial. He knew they were a threat before 9/11.

 

[carlitos]

Please share that exact email with us. I'd love to see the language "next al Qaeda attack" in the context of hijacking planes by killing pilots.

 

[DGM]

I'm going by the accounts of CIA officials. They told us how concerned they were. ..............

So, would that be a no? The US gets "credible threats" everyday. Hindsight tells us what's important.

What was the CIA agenda? Imagine if they had shared the information in January 2000. Maybe both the Cole attack and 9/11 could have been prevented.

I'm not going to "imagine". You didn't answer my question as to what the FBI could have acted on. Why is that?

Don't forget the "Patriot Act" was not in place. Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't like that (bit of legislation)?

 

[thatsmystory]

So, would that be a no? The US gets "credible threats" everyday. Hindsight tells us what's important.

So the July 10 urgent briefing for Rice by Tenet and Blee was normal?

Officials now agree that on July 10, 2001, Mr. Tenet and his counterterrorism deputy, J. Cofer Black, were so alarmed about an impending Al Qaeda attack that they demanded an emergency meeting at the White House with Ms. Rice and her National Security Council staff.

Record Shows

I'm not going to "imagine". You din't answer my question as to what the FBI could have acted on. Why is that?

Don't forget the "Patriot Act" was not in place. Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't like that (bit of legislation)?

What was the question. It appears to be whether an FBI agent could look at Atta before 9/11 and detain him because he seems sort of dangerous. That isn't the scenario. I posted in response what Kenneth Maxwell would have done if he had the information about al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar.

 

[DGM]

So the July 10 urgent briefing for Rice by Tenet and Blee was normal?

I wasn't there. Was it abnormal? You do know these briefings have been going on for years and it's up to a large number of addition people to decide if these "threats" are credible. It's also up to these people to decide what would be an appropriate response given past history and perceived level of threat .

What was the question. It appears to be whether an FBI agent could look at Atta before 9/11 and detain him because he seems sort of dangerous. That isn't the scenario. I posted in response what Kenneth Maxwell would have done if he had the information about al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar.

Take your pick what suspected operative the FBI got information on. Don't forget to include whether the information the FBI received from the CIA would be admissible in a US court. Don't forget that the FBI does not prosecute criminals, they only investigate and gather evidence.

Could this be a little more complicated than you think?