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Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Mignini seems to think that heroin makes you reliable, which is totally consistent with the kind of nonsense my drug dependent clients say - can I infer from this that he is possibly a user?

This type of false rhetoric is not helpful to your cause.
Your strain "heroin makes you reliable" is the usual attempt to twist and inject some falsehood in the narrative. The judges - not just Mignini and Comodi and Crini and Galati and Costagliola - but a series of judges, pointed out that the fact that someone is a heroin user, is not a sufficient for ruling he is unreliable or to make him disappear as a witness.
Which is a bit different from your false straw man "heroin makes you reliable".
 
Cody's Theory

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I think Mignini may not have thought of her a a liar and an actress until AFTER she recanted her statement, AND they realized Lumumba was innocent.

It is possible the police originally thought she had done nothing more than facilitate a date at the cottage between Lumumba and Meredith which resulted in Lumumba murdering Meredith. For various reasons they had this theory before, during, and immediately after the interrogation. They thought she was either too afraid of Lumumba to tell anyone, she had blocked it from her memory, or both. When they convinced her that she had blocked the memory out ("She buckled and made an admission of facts that we knew were correct") they rushed out and arrested Lumumba and announced case closed to the world. At the time, the police seemed satisfied with her statement that she was cowering in the kitchen holding her hands over her ears while Lumumba was murdering Meredith in the bedroom.

Later, when she re-unblocked her real memory and recanted, and it became apparent that Lumumba had an airtight alibi, Mignini and his minions decided they had been duped and embarrassed by the clever evil American witch bitch so therefore she must be the actual murderer. They never got over it, and any possibility of a fair prosecution and trial after that became impossible.

I am not locked to this theory, but it does explain a lot, and understanding the problem is fundamental to solving the problem. I would like to hear arguments for or against it, particularly with regards to the time-line. For this theory; a sincere police investigation before the interrogation, a prejudiced and dishonest police investigation after Amanda's recanting of her coerced statement.

Interestingly, nothing of the above precludes Rudy from being a police informer, or of some police protecting him. It's just that they either never considered him before the forensic test results were obtained, or if a few did, they never mentioned it.

Cody
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It's a very interesting interpretation, and I found my self saying, 'hmm, maybe, plausible' at many points.

But I do have a issues I want to raise. These are questions.

What did Mignini believe, and when did he believe it? This is the question I think you're asking, and my problem is it may not be a legitimate question.

I'm not entirely convinced Mignini processes information in a rational way. At times he seems literally possessed by madness, At times, he seems opportunistic, playing the ball where it lies.

Patrick has an alibi they can't beat? No problem, he still has Amanda's "confession" of her involvement, so Mignini reconstructs his theory to fit the crime to Amanda. He can gain support from Stef at the lab, and round up tramp witnesses as he has done in the past.

So what does it really mean to say Mignini believes anything?

When confronted with the identification of the Narducci corpse, that Mignini had exhumed (2002), claiming the body had been switched to conceal a satanic cult murder, Mignini claimed there had been a 'double swap'.

When confronting Spezi at his hearing to be released from jail, after Mignini had Spezi imprisoned for being the actual 'Monster of Florence', the description provided in Preston/Spezi's book "MOF" tells of an enraged Mignini shaking his finger at Spezi for his irrational opposition to Mignini's investigations.

Mignini's Narducci theory, Spezi theory, and Kercher theory (that the murder was related to the rites of Halloween as Mignini originally claimed) were provided by the psychic Gabriella Carlizzi, based on her recounting of her illuminations that she reports receiving from Father Gabriel, a deceased vatican priest and exorcist who had died in (I think 1984). There is every reason to believe that Mignini himself honestly believes Carlizzi's claims of satanic cults and their relationship to the MOF crimes, with which Mignini has been trying to associate himself. (The original MOF investigators all received prominent promotions for achieving discredited convictions against people unrelated to the MOF crimes on the basis of their involvement in satanic cults). (Mignini has also authored two articles published on the website "catholic alliance", where in one he describes a revolt against Napoleon where the war cry of "Viva Maria" was taken up by the locals, and he writes of the simultaneous appearance of 'weeping Madonna statues' and other "confirmed" miracles that fed the "counter-revolutionary" rebellion).

So in attributing to Mignini a rational mind, and a logical flow of ideas based on the discovery of new evidence, is not supported by his previous behavior in the Narducci and Spezi cases. (The Case against 20 Florentines, recently dismissed in the last few weeks, was a continuation and cumulation of those investigations).

Lastly Cody, I have tried to point out my belief that the police, specifically Napoleone, tried to get Amanda to pick up a knife 'compatible with the murder', when they took Amanda to the cottage on November 4th. Had Amanda picked up a knife then, do you doubt Stef would have found a match to both Amanda and Meredith, just as Stef did with the knife selected at random from Raf's kitchen on the morning of Nov 6th?

That event on Nov 4th was before Amanda's naming Patrick. And Raf was warned by a police woman outside the station, also I believe on Nov 4th, that he would "need a lawyer for sure", and gave him a lawyer's card. I think its hard to know how crooked or crazy Mignini and the Italians actually are, as these behaviors are by no means isolated to the Kercher investigation.

So, I guess I'm kind of stumped myself. But a picture begins to emerge of a manifestly insane Mignini, bouncing back and forth between the conflicting mental states of a cynical opportunism on the one hand, and a mad delirium of satanic cult witch hunting on the other - and you ask, what does Mignini truly believe? Both? Neither? Can a schizophrenic be said to actually have a fixed set of beliefs, or are they simply subjected to the whims of neural chemical alternate realities washing over them on the fly?

I'm not sure a diagnosis for Mignini beyond "criminally insane" is feasible for outsiders and non-professionals. Mignini should be formally studied though. He is a modern day Torque Mada, an anachronism in modern times, an "Inquisitor" from the medieval Inquisition pining for his instruments of torture, forcing confessions from those in proximity to evil, all in service of his holy war against the devil.
 
The whole basis of Barbie Nadeau's slutty book, was that the drug and sex-fueled college town atmosphere of Perugia caught this naive, virtual-teenager off guard. Even Judge Massei makes mention of this being, "in a place devoid of her normal moral compass," as the *only* "motive" Knox could have had to participate in what he called Rudy's crime of lust.

Nadeau seemed particularly fascinated by three-somes amongst the students as the context into which this naive Seattleite came unprepared.

It was Mignini, and now Machiavelli (hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm) who are the only ones really sluttifying this up. Mignini floated all this in court in 2009, and no one believed him, not even the convicting judge.

The $64,000 question is - why now? Why is Machiavelli pushing something not even the prosecution(s) pushed?

I believe it has something to do with Mario Spezzi recently being vindicated. We will hear nothing from Machiavelli on that.

I see all this as "We have no evidence of guilt so let us try a public smear campaign." I personally have no idea if it is true but assuming a reasonably decent translation on the previous page, I don't see it as anything useful beyond smearing Amanda (Again, Raffaele is the invisible man)
 
Of course you wouldn't (even though I provided a quote).

"Now Machiavelli is saying that this forgery......."

Note what Bill Williams does: the document IS a forgery. No ifs ands or buts.

Then he goes on to explain for us what MACH is REALLY saying etc.

It's tedious and boorish. I can see why he is mostly ignored.

Unless it is a real document from a Questura somewhere, then it is a forgery. Can you identify the authors from the signatures on the bottom? Is there any identifying information on it?

Until someone provides identifying information then there ARE no ifs ands or buts. It's just that the damage is already done, as Stilicho has pointed out. The Telegraph in the UK is now referencing this as-if authentic.

This is the way guilters conduct this case. Verification of obviously forged documents apparently is completely optional in this case, for some reason.

So go ahead, take ad hominem pokes at me. Do you know the bona fides of this document? That's the real way of refuting my claim that it is a forgery.... it is duly noted that as far as THAT issue is concerned, no one has verified at all that it is anything other than a forgery.

Don't people in Italy stand by their work?
 
Actually, there is no need to suggest nor prove anything. It is only worth taking note that Knox attended and exchanged phone calls with a cocaine dealer who worked in Perugia center. There is nothing you need to add to this.

By take note, do you actually mean sluttify?
 
I see all this as "We have no evidence of guilt so let us try a public smear campaign." I personally have no idea if it is true but assuming a reasonably decent translation on the previous page, I don't see it as anything useful beyond smearing Amanda (Again, Raffaele is the invisible man)

Yes, it is noteworthy that Raffaele always need to be pushed back into invisibility while essentially sharing the same fate.

And once again, the only real crime in it is that an American 20-year old had sex. In a college town. With someone who perhaps knew someone who did drugs and, oooooooooooooooooooooooo, perhaps she did drugs herself.

It's a PR smear campaign pure and simple. It does nothing to understand the horrible events leading to the wrongful taking of a life.

But she had sex. And the word "sluttification" comes into play because it is a SHE who had sex. In Italy. In a college town.

That's the angle that writes books, and gets films included at the Toronto International Film Festival..... witness the trailer with the Knox-character reclining in a seat on a train........

Soon THAT meme will come into view again.
 
This type of false rhetoric is not helpful to your cause.
Your strain "heroin makes you reliable" is the usual attempt to twist and inject some falsehood in the narrative. The judges - not just Mignini and Comodi and Crini and Galati and Costagliola - but a series of judges, pointed out that the fact that someone is a heroin user, is not a sufficient for ruling he is unreliable or to make him disappear as a witness.
Which is a bit different from your false straw man "heroin makes you reliable".

There is no escaping that they claim to find the ravings of a confused long term addict, with likely cognitive impairment and poor night vision, consistent with a man capable of making super human reliable and accurate memories. And this is an even bigger load of nonsense than the new drug claims.

But evidence schmevidence, let's all sing 'Amanda is a bitch/whore/slut' again
 
Yes, it is noteworthy that Raffaele always need to be pushed back into invisibility while essentially sharing the same fate.

And once again, the only real crime in it is that an American 20-year old had sex. In a college town. With someone who perhaps knew someone who did drugs and, oooooooooooooooooooooooo, perhaps she did drugs herself.

It's a PR smear campaign pure and simple. It does nothing to understand the horrible events leading to the wrongful taking of a life.

But she had sex. And the word "sluttification" comes into play because it is a SHE who had sex. In Italy. In a college town.

That's the angle that writes books, and gets films included at the Toronto International Film Festival..... witness the trailer with the Knox-character reclining in a seat on a train........

Soon THAT meme will come into view again.

Kind of curious at a point from the translation
During this period of phone tapping was possible to ascertain by the telephone file records of the “Wind” company it was in the name of xxxxxx in process of identification, but was being used by Federico xxxx, born in Rome on 18/04/1975, resident in xxxxxx (PG), in fact domiciled in Perugia, address: Via xxxxxxx, Ground Floor, the same [F.] also has frequent contacts with transsexuals, to whom he sells drugs.

Wondering why this is in here. Seems like it is crow-barred in there as a smear campaign.
 
Kind of curious at a point from the translation
During this period of phone tapping was possible to ascertain by the telephone file records of the “Wind” company it was in the name of xxxxxx in process of identification, but was being used by Federico xxxx, born in Rome on 18/04/1975, resident in xxxxxx (PG), in fact domiciled in Perugia, address: Via xxxxxxx, Ground Floor, the same [F.] also has frequent contacts with transsexuals, to whom he sells drugs.

Wondering why this is in here. Seems like it is crow-barred in there as a smear campaign.

Maybe the transsexuals were the ladies with XY chromosomes that contaminated Meredith's bra?
 
There is no escaping that they claim to find the ravings of a confused long term addict, with likely cognitive impairment and poor night vision, consistent with a man capable of making super human reliable and accurate memories. And this is an even bigger load of nonsense than the new drug claims.

But evidence schmevidence, let's all sing 'Amanda is a bitch/whore/slut' again

There is no evidence Curatolo suffered of any cognitive impairment, and definitely he was not confused. You are making it up (like Hellmann-Zanetti), actually contradicting the evidence.
 
Maybe the transsexuals were the ladies with XY chromosomes that contaminated Meredith's bra?

Err. . . .Maybe but these transsexuals did not live in the same house as Amanda and Meredeth unless I am misunderstanding the translation.
 
There is no evidence Curatolo suffered of any cognitive impairment, and definitely he was not confused. You are making it up (like Hellmann-Zanetti), actually contradicting the evidence.

I'm basing it on a lot of experience working with drug dependent people. Most long term addicts are using multiple drugs, smoke and drink heavily - and their executive functioning is often shocking by the time they reach their 50s.

And as for super human feats of memory whilst on heroin - most people I meet who have just used, don't remember me the next day, even when I've sat and spoken to them for over an hour in a brightly lit room.
 
By take note, do you actually mean sluttify?

It is a matter of facts that Knox attended and exchanged phone calls with a cocaine dealer, whether you like it or not. And however you like to call this, this is a matter of facts that dconstrued the innocentisti narrative intended to portray Knox as a chacrather to which a meeting and having fun with Rudy Guede or taking part to a drug fueled sex party, would be something totally "implausible" or impossible to imagine. The truth is, a scenario involving Knox partying or meeting with shady charachters at her house, or any scenario of mess involving sexual context and/or drugs, is a context perfectly fit to Knox charachter. Such themes (in addition to things such violent scuffles for money) are actually kinds of things that belonged to the very crowd and environment she used to spend time with.
 
These are just further speculations on a thin pillar, pure innocentisti-style "climbing on glass".
Nobody cares if someone had sex with someone else. But Knox herself admitted ho have spent a night with Federico and having thoughts about sex with him (despite she changes his name), any reasonable person can just assumes one dones't call drug dealers to talk about literature. Federico pleaded gulty of giving drug in exchange for sex and was friends with a transexual prostitute. But who cares what Knox did through bed sheets.

The fact that this report was not used in the 2009 trial is just normal, your assumption that it would be "used" if it was true is just based on fudamental ignorance about the system. Police reports are not usable in court, certainly not those from an open investigation about another case, but anyway they would add nothing to the prosecution case.
Ths is in fact true: they are worthless for the accusation; such elements are totally unnecessary for any person who acknowledged the evidence. Whilst they are irrelevant to the guilters side, however - this is why they are delightful - they are damaging to the pro-Knox side and to their narrative which is intended to portray her as "innocent" "good kid" "little angel" and "immune" from shady drug/sex connections, as well as "different" and "nothing to do" with Rudy Guede.

Please note it is not just the drug dealer having her number on his phone, it is her having his number on his phone and, aboe all, a number of phone calls among the two numbers.

So please explain why Mignini used the noise ticket to smear her as a wild party girl but not this crushing evidence of involvement in hard drugs and promiscuous involvement with peddlers. Here is your moitve for the crime! A young American who arrives in Italy, lets her hair down and goes completely wild, pissing off her flatmates by hanging out with undesirables (and bringing them home?). Are you saying that in this small town where everybody knows everybody else's business the cops did not have the wits to make something out of this that might resemble actual evidence? I knew they were morons but had no idea they were this bad. Drugs are their sweet spot. It's all they have to do in this drug crossroads. They tap phones, follow people, beat them up, scratch their cars, abuse computer records and enjoy complete immunity for their conduct but apparently can't shoot fish in a barrel.

Can we get back to the failure to detect any hard drugs in her hair sample? Please square that with this intense contact with 'drug rings'.
 
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