Merged deliberate obstruction by the CIA of pre-9/11 investigations?

Who cares about the government?

All alternate theories regarding the events of 9-11 are physically impossible. Love of the government doesn't even come into play. Its irrelevant.

The MIHOP theories are physically impossible and 4th degree retarded. The extremely rare LIHOPs (like this) are unlikely and there is no actual evidence. The FUBAR that led up to 9/11 is obvious but ignored by those who believe nothing happens by accident or by luck. Al Qaeda got extremely lucky that day.
 
To buy into LIHOP ignores the present. Look at the NSA mess right now. Congress is on a head-hunting mission, and this effects the entire intelligence community. The result is that decision-makers will be gun shy for a while, and this will create intelligence gaps, and operational enforcement gaps that will lead to other attacks.

In the 1990s the CIA had a mole problem, so it was being aggressively investigated by the FBI. Accusations flew around Langley that ended careers, and had good people reassigned to admin jobs. The combination of the bad blood between the two agencies, and the fear the investigations generated left an intel gap large enough to fly 4 jumbo jets through.
 
The MIHOP theories are physically impossible and 4th degree retarded. The extremely rare LIHOPs (like this) are unlikely and there is no actual evidence. The FUBAR that led up to 9/11 is obvious but ignored by those who believe nothing happens by accident or by luck. Al Qaeda got extremely lucky that day.

Nice faith based analysis. There is nothing obvious about pre-9/11 conduct because of the secrecy. Do you not have a problem with the fact that you never heard a word from Blee or Middleton (head of the FBI Bin Laden unit) about their investigations of al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar?
 
Who cares about the government?

All alternate theories regarding the events of 9-11 are physically impossible. Love of the government doesn't even come into play. Its irrelevant.

Why are you associating physical structure theories with obstructed al Qaeda investigations?

What drives your willingness to put the best spin on obstructed al Qaeda investigations? It doesn't make sense to be so forgiving when the given explanations do not withstand scrutiny.
 
Nice faith based analysis. There is nothing obvious about pre-9/11 conduct because of the secrecy. Do you not have a problem with the fact that you never heard a word from Blee or Middleton (head of the FBI Bin Laden unit) about their investigations of al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar?

It was a cluster-**** and an embarrassment. Again, you're insinuating these people plotted the murders of almost 3000 of the people they swore to protect. If you're just here to say they dropped the ball, you're posting in the wrong section. Where's the "plotting to commit mass murder" tie in to justify this being in this particular subforum???
 
Why are you associating physical structure theories with obstructed al Qaeda investigations?

What drives your willingness to put the best spin on obstructed al Qaeda investigations? It doesn't make sense to be so forgiving when the given explanations do not withstand scrutiny.

Where is your Pulitzer Prize?
 
The MIHOP theories are physically impossible and 4th degree retarded. The extremely rare LIHOPs (like this) are unlikely and there is no actual evidence. The FUBAR that led up to 9/11 is obvious but ignored by those who believe nothing happens by accident or by luck. Al Qaeda got extremely lucky that day.


I have posted much of the massive amount of evidence that comes right out of the official US government investigations on the attacks that took place on 9/11. Since you claim there is no actual evidence you should then be able to answer all of the following questions about 9/11. If you can’t then you are clearly then just ignoring the massive amount of evidence that I have already posted, and deliberately overlooking this evidence of the massive criminal conspiracy that had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.

Almost beyond belief, Tom Wilshire, number two at the FBI ITOS, the unit in charge of all FBI terrorist investigations in the world, on mid-May 2001, not only was working with FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi and Rod Middleton her supervisor, to hide the fact that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, but then ultimately shut down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. Wilshire was in contact with Frasca and Maltbie on August 24, 2001, and it is clear he had been in email contact with these RFU managers well before this date to get updates on the details of the Samit investigation. Wilshire in addition to criminally obstructing and then shutting down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, knows by August 24, 2001 that the investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui was being criminally obstructed by Maltbie and Frasca. Wilshire had it all, as did all of his former CIA management, when the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, went back to the CIA on August 22, 2001 just after the meeting Margaret Gillespie had with Wilshire and Corsi giving them the information she had found on Mihdhar and Hazmi, that they were inside of the US. All of this information should have been used to raise an alarm to very highest level and make sure all FBI criminal investigations were allowed to proceed at the very highest urgency, but just the opposite was done.

And what is beyond belief is by August 22, 2001, Wilshire, and the many people in the CIA management, including Blee, Black and Tenet already knew that when Mihdhar and Hazmi were found inside of the US, that they were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americas.

No one has ever explained why when Wilshire the number two at the FBI HQ ITOS unit knew that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing by May 15, 2001, four months ahead of the 9/11 attacks, he never notified the FBI Cole bombing investigators, including Soufan and his assistant Steve Bongardt, of this horrific information even though his unit was actually in charge of their investigation.

Maybe you or someone else on this forum can explain this very strange and criminal behavior on Tom Wilshire. Both Corsi and Rod Middleton were also aware of this information, Corsi by August 22, 201 and Middleton by August 30, 2001 and neither one of these FBI HQ agents and supervisors in charge of Bongardt’s investigation alerted Bongardt of this information and in fact they fact kept this information secret so they could shut down his investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. Maybe someone on this forum can also explain this.

Question: Why did very high level FBI HQ ITOS manager Tom Wilshire, a former CIA Deputy Chief of the CIA Bin Laden unit, never raise any alarm when he knew Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US on August 22, 2001 and knew they were going to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americans?


Question: Explain why Tom Wilshire, Deputy Chief of the ITOS unit at FBI HQ, the one FBI HQ unit in control of all FBI terrorists investigations worldwide, never told the FBI Cole bombing investigators that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the USS Cole bombing when he was aware of this information by January 4, 2001 when he was at the CIA, and then reconfirmed this information by mid-May 2001, 4 months prior to the attacks on 9/11, after he had been moved over from his management position at the CIA to be Deputy Chief of the FBI HQ ITOS unit?

Both Corsi and Rod Middleton were also aware of this information that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, Corsi by August 22, 2001 (she admitted this to DOJ IG investigators as indicated in the DOJ IG report) and Middleton by August 30, 2001, (the CIA actually sent Middleton the photo of Khallad taken at Kuala Lumpur on August 30, 2001, connecting both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the planning of the Cole bombing) and neither one of these FBI HQ agents and FBI supervisors in charge of Bongardt’s investigation alerted Bongardt of this information. In fact they kept this information secret so they could continue to shutdown his investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. All of these people and the CIA management who had refused to give Tom Wilshire permission to pass the Kuala Lumpur information to Soufan and Bongardt, after his request to do just this on July 13, 2001 and July 23, 2001, knew that shutting down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out a massive al Qaeda attack that the CIA and FBI HQ had been warned about since April 2001.

Question: Why did FBI Deputy Chief Tom Wilshire, FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi and her supervisor Rod Middleton shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s investigation of al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi when they knew that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, and even knew it was a Federal crime to withhold this material information from Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators?

Question: Why did FBI Deputy Chief Tom Wilshire, FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi and her supervisor Rod Middleton shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s investigation of al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi when they knew that this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks that they had been warned about since April 2001, the attacks of 9/11?

Question: Since Wilshire was in a high level management position at the FBI ITOS unit that was over Corsi and Middleton, and it is clear from the information in the DOJ IG report he was directing Corsi’s efforts to shut down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, why did he do this when he knew that the result would be to allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out a massive attacks inside of the US that would kill thousands of Americans?

On August 27, 2001 Corsi requested a release from the NSA to pass the NSA information in her EC to the FBI Agents in New York on the Cole bombing investigation including FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's and this release was granted in just few hours. This NSA information was the fact that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had traveled to a high level al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur on January 6-8, 2000, a meeting where both the CIA and the FBI knew the Cole bombing had been planned. On August 28, 2001 just the very next day, Corsi’s EC with this NSA information, was sent accidentally to Steve Bongardt by John Liguori and Bongardt called her to request the investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi be given to him and his team since it appeared due to the information in her EC that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were now connected to people who had taken part in the Cole bombing. But when Bongardt called Corsi to get a criminal investigation started for Mihdhar and Hazmi and find them before they had time to carry out a horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US, Corsi told Bongardt that because of the NSA information in her EC, he was not even allowed to have her EC, that he had to destroy her EC, and that he would never be allowed start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

Question: Why did FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi force Bongardt to destroy here EC on August 28, 2001 using the reason she had not gotten permission from the NSA to send this information to him, when she already had gotten the NSA release from the NSA general council to give him the NSA information in her EC the day before, on August 27, 2001?

Question: And why did Corsi request this release in the first place from the NSA if she had no real intention of ever giving her EC with this NSA information to Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators?

On August 23, 2001, Margaret Gillespie had the CIA bin Laden unit issue an alert to the rest of the CIA indicating that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US. So Richard Blee, Chief of the CIA Bin Laden unit, his supervisor Cofer Black and his supervisor George Tenet would have been aware that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and they all knew that these al Qaeda terrorists were in the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americans (from Tom Wilshire’s emails sent to them in July 2001). These CIA managers had refused to give Tom Wilshire permission in July 2001 to pass the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi and the Kuala Lumpur meeting to the FBI, in response to his email requests on July 13, 2001, and July 23, 2001.

Question: When these high level CIA managers, Blee, Black and Tenet, had gone to the White House on July 10, 2001 to tell Clarke, Hadley and Rice that a huge al Qaeda attack was about to take place inside of the US that would kill thousands of Americans, why did they refuse to give Tom Wilshire permission to pass the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI on July 13, and July 23, 2001, the very information that would have prevented the attacks on 9/11?

Question: Why did these high level CIA managers never raise any alarm about this horrific information after they were given the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US on August 22-23, 2001 and even knew these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US in order to part in a huge al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands?

On August 24, 2001 Tenet flies out to Crawford Texas, to have a 6 hour long meeting with President Bush. At the 9/11 public hearings of 9/11 on April 14, 2004, Tenet stated that he not talked to the President of the US in all of August 2001, even after he admitted right at these hearings that he knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US and even knew it would kill thousands of Americans. Tenet explained that he did not given the President of the United States this horrific information, because he was in Washington DC and the President of the United States was in Crawford Texas. At the time of this meeting, on August 24, 2001, Tenet knew about Moussaoui, knew a FBI investigation of him was being obstructed, and even knew that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americans. Tenet, (Black and Blee,) even knew the plan for this attack was to take several commercial airliners and crash these into the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon the US Capital building and perhaps other buildings.

Question: So exactly what did Tenet tell the President on August 24, 2001, at this 6 hour long meeting he desperately tried to keep secret from the American people and the 9/11 Commission when he told the commission that he had not talked to the President at all in all of August 2001?
Did Tenet lie to the 9/11 Commission and commit perjury so he would not have to answer their obvious questions as to what he told the President at this meeting?

Question: On September 4, 2001 Tenet attended the first Principals meeting at the White House on the al Qaeda terrorists. Yet in spite of knowing about this huge al Qaeda attack that will take place inside of the US, he never brings this information up at this meeting. Why?

On September 5, 2001 Robert Fuller who was given the assignment to find Mihdhar and Hazmi after Corsi, Middleton and Wilshire had shut down Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, called Corsi to get permission from her to call Saudi Arabian airlines to get Mihdhar credit card information. The CIA knew that Mihdhar had flown back into the US on July 4, 2001 on Saudi Arabian Airlines. Corsi refused to give Fuller permission to contact Saudi Arabian Airlines to get Mihdhar credit card information. On 9/11, the credit cards of Mihdhar and Hazmi were used to buy 10 of the airlines tickets use by the hijackers on 9/11.

Why did Corsi refuse to give Fuller permission to get this credit card information when she knew that without this information, as Fuller had explained, he had gotten nowhere in his search for Mihdhar and knew without this information his investigation would probably go nowhere?

On November 2000, Soufan made a request to FBI Director Louis Freeh, and asked Freeh to make an official request to the CIA and George Tenet for any information that the CIA had on any meeting in Kuala Lumpur and Walid bin Attash, Khallad, the mastermind of the Cole, bombing. Freeh said the CIA had none of this information. But Freeh himself had gotten much of this very information from the CIA in January 2000.

Question: Why did Louis Freeh, Director of the FBI criminally obstruct his own investigation of the Cole bombing when this was at the time the FBI’s most important investigation?

Question: Why was all this information listed above left out of and never brougfht out or explained by the 9/11 Commission when it was in the DOJ IG report combined with the account of FBI Agent Ali Soufan, in the July 10-17, 2006 New Yorker, and the Moussaoui trail Defense Exhibits?

Question: Was the 9/11 Commission covering up the crimes at the CIA and FBI HQ that had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place?
 
Holy wall of text batman.

Here's a question (really a request) for you. Could you just post a simple list of the names of those you think should be brought up on conspiracy to commit murder charges? Point out which ones we should put to death too.

Thanks :)
 
And what is beyond belief is by August 22, 2001, Wilshire, and the many people in the CIA management, including Blee, Black and Tenet already knew that when Mihdhar and Hazmi were found inside of the US, that they were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americas.

Evidence?

An aside: I love how twoofies, who rail on the Government for eavesdropping want them to arrest people for being suspect!


Priceless!
 
Note how all the skepticism is directed at anyone who dares to question the benevolent government. Such faith in government is truly heartwarming.

I wish the skeptics could point to a single interview with Rich Blee. If all these questions are unfounded then surely Blee was more than happy to explain what happened at Alec Station in the lead up to 9/11.

I'm plenty skeptical of government, but I know evidence when I see it, and I recognize jive when I see it too.
 
Evidence?

An aside: I love how twoofies, who rail on the Government for eavesdropping want them to arrest people for being suspect!


Priceless!

You caught that one too?

The gov.org is omnipotent and knew all.

The gov.org can't do anything right.

Pretty interesting set of core assumptions there.
 
Holy wall of text batman.

Here's a question (really a request) for you. Could you just post a simple list of the names of those you think should be brought up on conspiracy to commit murder charges? Point out which ones we should put to death too.

Thanks :)

All of the names are listed in my prior post except for Clark Shannon and perhaps Micheal Rolince, head of the FBI ITOS unit. Clarke Shannon was the CIA officer at the June 11, 2001 meeting in New York City FBI field office, with FBI Agent Steve Bongadt and his team of Cole bombing investigators.

This meeting had been set up by Tom Wilshire, a former manager at the CIA, and was attended by with FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi and FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie, to spy on the FBI Cole bombing investigators. Gillespie was working at the bin Laden unit at the CIA. Wilshire had been moved over to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-May 2001 to find out what the FBI criminal Cole bombing investigators knew about the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting and did they know that Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at that meeting with Walid bin Attash planning the Cole bombing. This was the information that the CIA had been keeping secret from the FBI Cole bombing investigators to hide the CIA’s criminal culpability in allowing the Cole bombing to take place.

At the time of this meeting not only did both Shannon and Wilshire know that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing but they along with many people at the CIA including very highest level managers, knew that Hazmi was already inside of the US in order to take part in a terrorist atack, and that Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US, which would allow Mihdhar to join Hazmi for any terrorist attack inside of the US. The fact that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were going to take part in this attack was confirmed by the CIA and FBI HQ on August 22, 2001 when Gillespie found out from the INS that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, and gave this information to Wilshire and Corsi.
 
PaloAlto said:
And what is beyond belief is by August 22, 2001, Wilshire, and the many people in the CIA management, including Blee, Black and Tenet already knew that when Mihdhar and Hazmi were found inside of the US, that they were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americas.


Evidence?

An aside: I love how twoofies, who rail on the Government for eavesdropping want them to arrest people for being suspect!


Priceless!


The evidence has already been posted, see DE #939, and in the DOJ IG report pages 290-310. Also see posts #521, #524, and #547. This evidence is simply over whelming.

The top managers at the CIA, and key managers at the FBI HQ knew on August 22, 2001 that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the USA only in order to take part in a horrific and massive al Qaeda terrorist attack and when they blocked the one criminal investigation by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, that could have stopped this attack, they knew their actions would result in the murder of thousands of Americans.

It's just that simple!
 
The evidence has already been posted, see DE #939, and in the DOJ IG report pages 290-310. Also see posts #521, #524, and #547. This evidence is simply over whelming.

The top managers at the CIA, and key managers at the FBI HQ knew on August 22, 2001 that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the USA only in order to take part in a horrific and massive al Qaeda terrorist attack and when they blocked the one criminal investigation by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, that could have stopped this attack, they knew their actions would result in the murder of thousands of Americans.

It's just that simple!

It amazes me that with all of this "evidence" you are still alive.

It's just that simple!
 
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It amazes me that with all of this "evidence" you are still alive.

It's just that simple!
He's in no danger. This is all information these agencies have admitted. "60 minutes", CNN and every other news group in the world knows about this. The big difference is they understand context.
 
It amazes me that with all of this "evidence" you are still alive.

It's just that simple!

To tell the truth I am amazed myself.

But I took out an insurance policy, I gave all of the information I had to a Paul Thompson, who had a web site with the time line for 9/11 taken from main stream media sources, and made sure he put this information on his web site.

Once all of this information was on the internet, in my opinion, what was the CIA going to do.
 
To tell the truth I am amazed myself.

But I took out an insurance policy, I gave all of the information I had to a Paul Thompson, who had a web site with the time line for 9/11 taken from main stream media sources, and made sure he put this information on his web site.

Once all of this information was on the internet, in my opinion, what was the CIA going to do.

how do you think of Ali Mohamed plays into all of this? or does he??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Mohamed

what do you think about al Qaeda having Promis software?

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/magic_carpet.html
 
To tell the truth I am amazed myself.

But I took out an insurance policy, I gave all of the information I had to a Paul Thompson, who had a web site with the time line for 9/11 taken from main stream media sources, and made sure he put this information on his web site.

Once all of this information was on the internet, in my opinion, what was the CIA going to do.

Well, they could have killed you and Paul Thompson and stopped the posting of the info.

If they are prepared to murder thousands of US Citizens in public in cold blood then why would they worry about getting rid of a couple of Internet non- entities?
 

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