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God right by virtue of being the creator ?

"We" don't actually need one more religion. Sure, new religions and cults appear every now and then, but many of us do not need them. So, please do not...

Wait...

Can I make money out of the faithful or turn a selected few in to sex slaves?
Even better, can I do both the above?
 
"We" don't actually need one more religion. Sure, new religions and cults appear every now and then, but many of us do not need them. So, please do not...

Wait...

Can I make money out of the faithful or turn a selected few in to sex slaves?
Even better, can I do both the above?

"We don't need another 'saviour',
We don't need a new 'messiah',
All we need is life beyond...the Baptodome!"
 
Being god means you never have to ask for consent or say you're sorry.

**** that. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. If this god fella wants to rule he better stand for office.
 
Agreed

"We" don't actually need one more religion. Sure, new religions and cults appear every now and then, but many of us do not need them. So, please do not...

Wait...

Can I make money out of the faithful or turn a selected few in to sex slaves?
Even better, can I do both the above?
Yes, we don't need any more religions. Unfortunately people are insecure and find solace with their Santa for Adults.
 
**** that. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. If this god fella wants to rule he better stand for office.

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.

If God really did exist, it would be necessary to overthrow him.
 
I think one reason for the rise of the Christian religion was in reaction to the Roman conqueror and the mindset of brutality. The idea of placing value on what I would usually attribute to the feminine side of our race. Many of the other ideas of God are similar to hero worship and their own experience of what Royals expected of their subjects. The concept of individual freedom and value of an individual life had not as yet evolved. You can still see countries with brutal dictators and their cheapening of their subjects. We are in a new era in which many human rights are taken for granted and so the old idea of a perfect creator and Lord and master are out of tune. I think we need a religion that recognizes the hole in the doughnut so to speak about our knowledge of creation and build upon what we do know.

IMHO, sorta, but not exactly. Actually, while some of the things in it ARE a reaction to the Romans, in some ways it was quite the opposite.

For a start, Christianity did NOT value individual freedom at all. On the contrary, Paul urges slaves to obey their masters, and even returns one slave to his master.

And according to Acts (which is probably a novel, but its inclusion kinda shows what the church wanted to emphasize) Paul can make a point of not stopping in a town where he had a church, stopping in the next town, and summoning the church elders to move their ass to him and report. The church very soon emphasized a rigid church structure, and doing what you're told by your superiors.

And in other ways it's a reaction AGAINST new freedoms that were slowly becoming the norm in the Roman Empire. E.g., the pastorals and generally the early church clearly try to put the women in their place, contrary to the trend in the Roman Empire where women were getting gradually a bit more free. E.g., Paul rants against the relative sexual freedom in Rome in his epistle to the Romans.

Seems to me more like a rise of the ancient conservative religious right, than something that was about defending people's rights.

Also, it's not really unique. There was a whole trend in the Mediterranean towards:

- syncretism: combining elements of some foreign religion with Hellenic elements. Especially in the form of mystery cults (which Paul's Christianity might have been too) there were dozens popping all over the place.

- monotheism, or at the very least henotheism: the vast majority of those new cults were about a single god, not about a pantheon

- personal salvation: unlike the very old gods which were more about protecting and helping the whole community, now religion is getting to be specifically about YOU and YOUR getting eternal life

- opt-in: religion generally used to be more about the community, and therefore you didn't really have a choice not to participate. At the very least you were supposed to nod through, so to speak, and not offend the others. Now religions become more like something you have to explicitly join

- pseudo-family: religions start to take family structures and pretend they're your new brothers in <insert god>

And stuff like that.

Christianity is just one of many that jumped on that bandwagon, not something unique and different. Granted, it did hit a better mix, among other things by getting more popular among slaves and therefore then freedmen, but it's not something unique in any of those aspects, and definitely not in the aspect of being about personal salvation.
 
When confronted with Euthyphro's Dilemma, religious people of my acquaintance won't see it as a dilemma at all. They will unhesitatingly say that it's the first. It's good because it is commanded by God. God is the ultimate arbiter of what is good and evil. He gets to do that because he's God.

My response to that is generally to suggest that god might refuse to let anybody into heaven, whether they accept the jesus sacrifice or not. It's fun to see them try to suggest reasons why god would never do that, because they've just admitted that if he did, it would be the right thing to do and no reason they give can possibly change that fact.

If they really believe what you said above, then no christian dogma is ever valid; god can simply do anything he wants, and change his mind however he wants, and there's absolutely nothing anybody can say to argue that he wouldn't.
 
So can we agree that the answer to the OP is one of the following:

A) God is always right because he can do anything and might makes right.

B) God is always right _and_ he's the creator. His perfection is separate from him being the creator.

C) God is always right because he's the creator but no one can explain why.
 
My response to that is generally to suggest that god might refuse to let anybody into heaven, whether they accept the jesus sacrifice or not. It's fun to see them try to suggest reasons why god would never do that, because they've just admitted that if he did, it would be the right thing to do and no reason they give can possibly change that fact.
Well, there is the Calvinist principle of Unconditional Election - that God has already chosen who he's going to save, and there's nothing that you or I can do about it.

If they really believe what you said above, then no christian dogma is ever valid; god can simply do anything he wants, and change his mind however he wants, and there's absolutely nothing anybody can say to argue that he wouldn't.
Well, he's already written down what he wants - it's in the Bible - and if you look at it you can see where he's already changed his mind several times. So yeah, pretty much.

B) God is always right _and_ he's the creator. His perfection is separate from him being the creator.
Except that only a perfect being can be a creator. He's not perfect by virtue of being the creator, but he couldn't be a creator unless he were perfect.
 
So can we agree that the answer to the OP is one of the following:

A) God is always right because he can do anything and might makes right.

B) God is always right _and_ he's the creator. His perfection is separate from him being the creator.

C) God is always right because he's the creator but no one can explain why.
Why not also

D) A creator may have its own reasons, needs, morals and ethics and they may be radically different from the sentient beings it somehow created. Its sentient creations are entitled, however, to judge their creator's acts according to their own codes and standards because they are sentient, that's how they were made.
 
Why not also

D) A creator may have its own reasons, needs, morals and ethics and they may be radically different from the sentient beings it somehow created. Its sentient creations are entitled, however, to judge their creator's acts according to their own codes and standards because they are sentient, that's how they were made.

I'd never believe in a god that would create humans.
 
Why not also

D) A creator may have its own reasons, needs, morals and ethics and they may be radically different from the sentient beings it somehow created. Its sentient creations are entitled, however, to judge their creator's acts according to their own codes and standards because they are sentient, that's how they were made.

Because that's not an answer to my question.
 
Why not also

D) A creator may have its own reasons, needs, morals and ethics and they may be radically different from the sentient beings it somehow created. Its sentient creations are entitled, however, to judge their creator's acts according to their own codes and standards because they are sentient, that's how they were made.
God Works In Mysterious Ways.
 
How about this? God is always wrong, because as a perfect being who created imperfect humans, there's no way he could possibly relate to us, or understand what we would need to use morals for. From God's perspective, something like killing would have no long term consequences, because he could simply remake or resurrect whomever he killed. For us, killing does indeed have long term consequences, because we lack God's power and knowledge. Let's look at other things we humans would consider wrong. Stealing? As the saying goes, the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away; it doesn't matter to him if he takes something away, because he can always give it back. How could such a being possibly understand what it's like to need or want for anything? Rape? God can never be the victim of rape, so he can never relate to or understand the trauma that a rape victim goes through.

Note that I'm not assuming God is all-knowing. He's clearly not. Read the Bible.
 
Except that there is no reason to believe this. In a few decades, WE could be the creator, and we'll be far from perfect.
Are you suggesting that in a few decades we could create entire universes of our own?

Actually, that's exactly what Mormon theology says.

Of course there's no good reason to believe this. I wasn't arguing that there was.
 

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