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Dowsing by a Skeptic

bluesjnr said:
The fact that he finds "the internet" fun and "not something to be taken seriously" says something about him - although I don't know what!
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I wondered if he felt the same way about dowsing.

I might be over-analysing, but I thought he was getting his excuses in first; along the lines of "oh, well you might point out great big holes in the logic of what I'm saying but you're taking it all far too seriously - this is just a bit of light-hearted fun for me".
 
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SaskMick said:
It's impossible to do a double blinded test of my dowsing abilities. I could try, but I would not be dowsing.
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The problem with this statement is that dowsers operate under double blind conditions all the time. In a typical scenario, a dowser is asked to locate an object when neither the dowser nor the person hiring the dowser knows the location of the object. That is basically the definition of double blind. The main difference between this scenario and the tests described here by fellow skeptics is that the tests are designed such that the odds of finding the object by random guessing can be calculated. Therefore, your claim of double blinding interfering with the ability to dowse is rejected.

SaskMick said:
There was no cheating by myself or my wife. The test was for my benefit, there was nothing at stake. There is no difference finding a bucket under which something is hidden, apart from that it would be impossible for my wife not to know which bucket she put it under. LOL:D
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Other than the fact that the object being searched for is in plain view the entire time. :rolleyes:
 
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SaskMick said:
That is exactly the point I was making. The reason the dowsers all failed is that nobody was dowsing:D:D.
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Serious question, SaskMick.

Let's say that all the dowsers failed their tests because their attitude was wrong, they were trying too hard, whatever. Why did they all pass the open tests? That is, seconds before they dowsed the same objects, under the same conditions, the only difference was they knew where the objects were located. They all reported that their dowsing abilities were working just fine, thank you.
 
Pixel42 said:
I wish I could return the compliment, but sadly I find it hard to like people who are more interested in showing off in front of their friends than in honestly investigating the remarkable world around them.
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Ahh! Very well said.
 
JohnnyG said:
The problem with this statement is that dowsers operate under double blind conditions all the time. In a typical scenario, a dowser is asked to locate an object when neither the dowser nor the person hiring the dowser knows the location of the object. That is basically the definition of double blind. The main difference between this scenario and the tests described here by fellow skeptics is that the tests are designed such that the odds of finding the object by random guessing can be calculated. Therefore, your claim of double blinding interfering with the ability to dowse is rejected.


Other than the fact that the object being searched for is in plain view the entire time. :rolleyes:
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Excellent point: exactly!
 
I was browsing a thread over at the British Society of Dowsers (BSD) forum that got into a mention of ouija boards. As I often notice, it's not real clear what some posters' opinions are, since many just post without comment, but at least one member seems to dismiss their use out of hand. I wonder what dowsers' opinion of Ouija boards in general is, since it is really no different from dowsing.

SaskMick! Have you experimented with a ouija board yet? It's even more fun than dowsing. In fact, in college dorm days, we used to use a Formica table skidding around the hall on a waxed terrazzo floor with four guys holding their finger tips on the surface as a ouija board. Freaked a lot of people out. Once this has been mastered you will graduate to casting the runes. Then onward and upward to reading entrails, astrology and a host of other methods of divination!


  • abacomancy /ˈæbəkɵmænsi/: by dust (Hebrew ’ābāq, dust + Greek manteia, prophecy)
  • acultomancy /əˈkʌltɵmænsi/ (also acutomancy): by needles (from acutomancy below, influenced by Latin acūleus, needle)
  • acutomancy /əˈkjuːtɵmænsi/ → see acultomancy (Latin acus [acut-], needle + Greek manteia, prophecy)
  • adromancy /ˈædrɵmænsi/ → see alomancy (from idromancy below, influenced by alomancy)
  • adryomancy→ see hydromancy (metathesis of hydromancy)
  • aeromancy /ˈɛərɵmænsi/: by atmospheric conditions (Greek āēr, air + manteia, prophecy)
  • agalmatomancy /əˈɡɔːlmətɵmænsi/:[citation needed] by statues (Greek agalma [agalmat-], statue + manteia, prophecy)
.............to mention only a few in the "A" column.;)

You could try the "C"s when you get bored.

  • canomancy /ˈkænɵmænsi/ or /ˈkeɪnɵmænsi/: by dogs (Latin canis, dog + Greek manteia, prophecy)
  • capnomancy /ˈkæpnɵmænsi/: by smoke (Greek kapnos, smoke + manteia, prophecy)
  • carromancy /ˈkærɵmænsi/: by melting wax (Greek karrō, of wax + manteia, prophecy)
  • cartopedy → see somatomancy (Latin carta, papyrus paper + pēs [pēd-], foot)
  • cartomancy → see chartomancy
  • catoptromancy/captromancy → see scrying
  • causimancy/causimomancy /ˈkɔːzɨmænsi/: by burning (Greek kaiein [kaus-], to burn + manteia, prophecy)
  • cephalomancy → see somatomancy
  • cephaleonomancy/cephalonomancy/ˌsɛfəliˈɒnɵmænsi/: by boiling a donkey's head:) (Greek kephalaion, head [with meaning influenced by Greek onos, donkey] + manteia, prophecy)
  • ceraunoscopy /ˌsɛrəˈnɒskɵpi/: by thunder and lightning (Greek keraunos, thunderbolt + -skopiā, observation)
  • ceromancy/ceroscopy /ˈsɛrɵmænsi/: by dripping wax in water (Greek kēros, wax + manteia, prophecy)
But I digress.

We had a member several years ago at JREF (remember Charles Stuart, the reincarnation/past lives guy?) whose life was changed greatly, and in many ways for the worse, by his experiences with the ouija. He came here seeking to "shake our pedestals" or some such similar motive, and have some fun with the skeptics. He too was steadfast in refusing rational testing. It did not end well for him.

Of course, since reality is just too difficult to deal with using rationality and scientific methods, you can run through the list and finally wind up full circle at "dowsing", "water witching", but be sure to consult your urine and your itches first.
U


  • umbilicomancy: by umbilical cords (English umbilic(al cord) + Greek manteia, prophecy)
  • umbromancy: by shade (Latin umbra, shadow + Greek manteia, prophecy)
  • uranomancy/ouranomancy: by the sky (Greek ouranos, firmament + manteia, prophecy)
  • uromancy/urimancy: by urine (Greek ouron, urine + manteia, prophecy)
  • urticariaomancy: by itches (New Latin urticāria, hives + Greek manteia, prophecy)
V


  • videomancy: by films (English video + Greek manteia, prophecy)
W


By the way, the verb "divine":
to discover or understand (something) without having direct evidence
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Olowkow said:
Well, the statement "it worked really well" is far from calling it utter BS, but YMMV.;)
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His stick worked really well, and especially so when he was doing his highland fling.

PS, The 10 pounds was to cover his expenses, the actual dowsing was free.:)
 
Olowkow said:
I think my hiliting of only the first part of the two posts has caused some confusion in the mind of one particular poster who doesn't seem to read entire posts, so sorry for that. My bad. :rolleyes: Apologies also if I happen to use synonyms in my prose for the purely stylistic purpose of avoiding repetition.

The fact is that Mick/SaskMick (not Mark, by the way SB;)) seems now to be a died in the wool dowser since he tried it out, and I believe him when he says that he just discovered how to dowse, and that he believes that dowsing works, because I have read every single post of his at the BSD site, as well as all of his posts here at JREF. He is not trolling us at JREF, nor is he taking the piss at the BSD site, in my humble opinion of course.

Now the question is, has he always believed in dowsing since his positive experience "years ago" with a dowser who apparently found a well, or has he always until quite recently thought dowsing to be "utter BS". I don't know for sure, which is why I asked if he would care to explain the apparent conflict in previous posts.

I really hope SaskMick returns to JREF, though I notice he has not been back for a while but continues to post at BSD. Aside from the "rub noses in it" remark, he seems to be a pleasant guy who values truth and logic...sometimes. I think he is capable of being convinced that dowsing really is BS, and I also suspect he is trying the patience of the old timers at BSD. Popcorn time.

His latest thread asks the question of the dowsers at BSD: "Where are all the young dowsers?" Excellent question. So far, crickets...
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The thing that disappoints me at the BSD forum is the lack of responses sometimes. I asked about the "remote" dowsing a couple of times but got no reply. I am left with the conclusion that they have never heard of it, and have not thought of trying it.

It's the remote dowsing that really interests me. I have tried it over the phone, and it works like I was standing watching. No attempt at an explanation from anyone at the BSD,

I will be convinced that dowsing is BS when the ideomotor effect is a proven fact rather than just a theory.:)
 
John Jones said:
That's rich.

How can you tell if your dowsing is telling you that dowsing works or not? :D

I can't wait to hear this woo-splanation. :rolleyes:
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I can tell by the reaction I get from the rods. No reaction means it ain't working, surprise surprise :D
 
SaskMick,

No serious response to the points brought out by the other posters? Okay, I guess you have no real response. Bye.
 
Olowkow said:
When someone dowses for water, for money, is he not trying to "prove a point"? Is he not under pressure to succeed? By your argument, the right "frame of mind" is apparently only achieved by dowsers when they are successful, but not when they fail. Doesn't that logic bother you just a bit? Is it not similar to someone telling you that god didn't cure someone because he didn't pray hard enough?
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I think that's partly why many dowser don't charge for anything but their expenses. I would not charge either.

Olowkow said:
I wonder what ulterior motives you attribute to what one BSD poster calls the "pseudo-skeptics" who are trying to help you understand this phenomenon. Do you not think some of us haven't actually tried this? Are we trying to suppress an ability that would, if true, be lauded with huge fame and financial rewards?
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I want to understand the phenomenon more than anyone, I'm working on it almost continuously.
 
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