LED Bulbs

Well, I got 4 12W LEDs for the kitchen in August 2013.

One has started to flicker, and looks like its done its last innings.

Given the savings, it has actually paid for itself, but only by about 2 months (previous bulbs were halogens). These bulbs get a lot of use, and so it will still be worth it to replace with something similar, although I'll be going for a 10w this time.

The price has come down a few pounds as well.

Hoping the rest fair better.

All four are on a single switch, and in recessed fittings in the ceiling. Electrics were re-wired and new consumer unit just before LEDs were purchased.
 
How do you conclude that they don't last as long?

Hans

I don't conclude it Hans. I can see it.
Tonight the third of five failed. That's a 60% failure rate in under 10 months* (around 1000-1200 hours against a 25000 hour claimed life).

During the same time, we have not had a single Halogen or Tungsten bulb fail although several of those in the house are in use far more than the ones in question.
The six 50w halogens originally in this fitting are now at least three years old, possibly considerably older. All are still going strong.

Don't get me wrong. I am keen to move to LEDs throughout the house, but if these sort of failure rates are typical, I can't afford to.

I have never had a response to my second email to Sylvania, so after tonight's failure, I have written them a snail mail letter and we'll see what comes of it.

* Small sample I know, but at these prices I'm not prepared to be a beta-tester.
 
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Yes, liquid cooled.

A 100w bulb was made from refractory materials exclusively. Glass, Ceramic, Brass, Tungsten. No heat sink needed because it was designed to BE an oven. Hence easy-bake ovens and 4-H chicken incubators.

Unfortunately, semiconductors are most efficient at a much lower temperature than the power they consume would allow without a heat sink.

I'm pretty certain the problem with the ES50 is a design fault. The bonding between the heat sink and circuit board is just not good enough and the circuit board, which is very small, is overheating big time.
 
I'm pretty certain the problem with the ES50 is a design fault. The bonding between the heat sink and circuit board is just not good enough and the circuit board, which is very small, is overheating big time.

Are you sure those are real Sylvania and not pirate knock-offs?

Do give the Switch Lighting units a throw; I have been watching this idea develop since the company went public, and they and a really good warrantee.
 
I have been replacing my bulbs with LEDs for over 5 years now and have not seen a single failure with probably 20 bulbs in use. I have bought most of them from Lowes or Home Depot, various brands, though I currently favor the CREE ones available at home depot for about $10 for a 60W equivalent.

IXP
 
I don't conclude it Hans. I can see it.
Tonight the third of five failed. That's a 60% failure rate in under 10 months* (around 1000-1200 hours against a 25000 hour claimed life).

During the same time, we have not had a single Halogen or Tungsten bulb fail although several of those in the house are in use far more than the ones in question.
The six 50w halogens originally in this fitting are now at least three years old, possibly considerably older. All are still going strong.

Don't get me wrong. I am keen to move to LEDs throughout the house, but if these sort of failure rates are typical, I can't afford to.

I have never had a response to my second email to Sylvania, so after tonight's failure, I have written them a snail mail letter and we'll see what comes of it.

* Small sample I know, but at these prices I'm not prepared to be a beta-tester.

OK. None of mine have failed, so far.

If you run them in a halogen installation, is your converter right for LEDs?

Hans
 
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I'm pretty certain the problem with the ES50 is a design fault. The bonding between the heat sink and circuit board is just not good enough and the circuit board, which is very small, is overheating big time.

I think that points out a manufacturing fault. I used to work for a company that sent it's manufacturing overseas. They had to continually check that the components were assembled the way they were specified to be, using the materials that were specified. You can cut back on costs and to the eye, it will still look exactly the same. That's what you should expect when you send a product out to tender and pick the lowest one, though.
 
I'm pretty certain the problem with the ES50 is a design fault. The bonding between the heat sink and circuit board is just not good enough and the circuit board, which is very small, is overheating big time.

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion based on what you've posted previously:
patchily coated with what I assume was a thermally conductive contact paste.
As you can see from the photo below, the application of that is far from "generous" or even uniform. If this was a CPU, I'd expect it to die young.

Unless you're suggesting that the design explicitly tells the manufacturer to use too little thermal paste applied badly, that's very obviously a manufacturing problem. As you say, if it was a CPU you'd expect it to die young. If a CPU died because someone hadn't connected the heat sink properly, you wouldn't blame the designer of the CPU.
 
LED bulbs are a good technology (energy efficient and last long), but the problem is there is not many bright LEDs available. When I go to the store I don't see any LEDs that are equivalent to 150w or greater incandescents. The most I typically see is 60w equivalent or so.

Also, when it come to Christmas lights I would like to replace incandescents with LEDs, but I couldn't find LEDs that were not very expensive (a set of 25 costs around $40). Note that I am looking for LEDs that are equivalent in brightness to C7 or C9 bulbs, there are many LED strands on the market that have a C7 shape but are far duller.
 
LED bulbs are a good technology (energy efficient and last long), but the problem is there is not many bright LEDs available. When I go to the store I don't see any LEDs that are equivalent to 150w or greater incandescents. The most I typically see is 60w equivalent or so.

Also, when it come to Christmas lights I would like to replace incandescents with LEDs, but I couldn't find LEDs that were not very expensive (a set of 25 costs around $40). Note that I am looking for LEDs that are equivalent in brightness to C7 or C9 bulbs, there are many LED strands on the market that have a C7 shape but are far duller.

You can buy LED bike lights now that are ridiculously bright. They cost a bit for the premium brands, but toy can expect prices to fall.
 
You can buy LED bike lights now that are ridiculously bright. They cost a bit for the premium brands, but toy can expect prices to fall.

Best I've seen are in the 100w range if we are talking Edison base lightbulb profile. There are some down lights that are a higher wattage equivalent.

There are even mogul base LED bulbs now, but there isn't as much selection.
 
OK. None of mine have failed, so far.

If you run them in a halogen installation, is your converter right for LEDs?

Hans

Converter?
The fitting can be seen in a photo upthread. It's a standard UK domestic light fitting, supplied with 240v AC power. I would not call it a "halogen installation" so much as a "GU10" installation - but (AFAIK) all pre-LED GU10s were halogens. I had a sparky test the output in all six places. His verdict is there's nothing wrong or unusual about the fitting.There are no electrics or electronics in there apart from wiring. All GU10s are 2- pin, double insulated.
I had wondered if there was some reason LEDs were unsuited to multiple bulb fittings, but I have no idea what it would be- and the fact so many manufacturers are making LED GU10s seems to imply they are good for any GU10 fitting.

I think that points out a manufacturing fault. I used to work for a company that sent it's manufacturing overseas. They had to continually check that the components were assembled the way they were specified to be, using the materials that were specified. You can cut back on costs and to the eye, it will still look exactly the same. That's what you should expect when you send a product out to tender and pick the lowest one, though.

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion based on what you've posted previously:


Unless you're suggesting that the design explicitly tells the manufacturer to use too little thermal paste applied badly, that's very obviously a manufacturing problem. As you say, if it was a CPU you'd expect it to die young. If a CPU died because someone hadn't connected the heat sink properly, you wouldn't blame the designer of the CPU.

Correct, both. I should have said "production", not "design".
The bulbs are genuine Sylvanias, made in Belgium. They certainly look solid and well made. Big heat sink, well vented.

Old style bulbs were cheap, disposable items, so a typical 60w bulb came in a thin cardboard box with no accompanying note, instructions or warranty.
By comparison, a cheap kettle, costing no more than a CFL would have an instruction manual in several languages and a warranty card.
I think the industry has decided that they still don't need to supply warranty data with LED bulbs, even though they are 10-20 times dearer than tungstens.
 
Very odd...

I just tried replacing some functional CFL bulbs with new CFL bulbs of the same size and wattage, for the difference in color temperature. It worked fine in all but one socket. That socket will not light up any of the new higher-color-temperature ones. If I put the old one back in, it still works. The new ones all work in other sockets. What's going on with that one socket?
 
Very odd...

I just tried replacing some functional CFL bulbs with new CFL bulbs of the same size and wattage, for the difference in color temperature. It worked fine in all but one socket. That socket will not light up any of the new higher-color-temperature ones. If I put the old one back in, it still works. The new ones all work in other sockets. What's going on with that one socket?
In the "simple things first" department (and assuming that there is no dimmer or other electronics in the pertinent fixture), I'd look at the socket and see if the center post is squashed down or damaged. Sometimes the center point on a new bulb will be just a gnat's-eyebrow shorter, and not hit well.
 
This subject is near and dear to me; I was an early CFL and LED adopter.

Incandescents have long been derided as room heaters with a minor by-product of light. They offer a good balanced spectrum, and the heat is useful in some applications like chick brooders. In a recent flame war about government taking away our freedom and liberty banning 100 watt bulbs versus damn hippie green Al Gore CFL/LED "conspirators", one of the vehement anti-LEDers admitted a good personal reason for using an incandescent- he lives on a farm and his butt would literally freeze to the outhouse seat in winter without an incandescent burning.

CFLs were a better step up energy-wise, though the mercury is troubling. From the early circuline and compact U-tubes that tended to let the smoke out of their transistors before the light output had time to fade with age, to the well evolved compact cold cathode units that came out in later years, they really became quite good and reliable. Much of their inefficiency and aging comes from producing mostly UV light with the tube, which must be downconverted to visible light by phosphors, stacking two inefficient processes.

LEDs are more efficient by directly producing visible photons. The "white" LEDs use blue emitters, some of which is converted to other wavelengths by phosphors; mostly yellow. Better LEDs apparently have a mix of phosphors for a very wideband emission surpassing the peak-y output of CFLs. Cheaper ones are mostly blue plus yellow, giving very crummy color rendering especially with reds. I found it hard to correctly cook meat on my RV stove with ~2006 technology "white" LEDS until I added some red ones to the fixture. For dry camping, LEDs can light the whole trailer with power to spare for indulgences like blue undercarriage lighting, for less than two traditional 12v 21w fixture bulbs. Now if we could work on the noisy, watt eating furnace blower!

Cool white LEDs are quite blueish and I prefer them for work lights. Warm white emphasizes yellow, too much so for my taste except for decorative applications. Some manufacturers now have a "natural white" which is a pleasing medium.

Home Depot recently had a promotion where 40w equivalent Cree fixtures were $5-something, down from $19+; needless to say, I snatched up a lot of them before they went back up a few dollars. These offer a superior near omnidirectional pattern because the emitters are mounted on a tube pointing radially within the globe and are about the best drop-in replacement for incandescents I've seen. LEDs are very directional, and most bulbs have them aiming one direction from a flat board, which works for some applications but tends to give traditional lamps an unpleasant lit appearance. Nowadays, there are more and more specialized spot, omni, and 90 degree emitting bulbs out there.

I've tried many many types of chinese LED bulbs from ebay. Quality is all over the map. I've never seen a simple inline resistor in a line-supplied LED fixture. The cheapest have a few diodes, capacitors, and resistors on a circuit board. Now more are stepping up to a complex circuit including an IC or two, usually rated for 85-265 volts- pretty versatile.

Dimmable LEDs are a special design and more expensive, but not by much. Cheaper ones are more prone to strobing, buzzing, or EMI, but these seem to be getting ironed out over time even at the low end.

Many of the chinese sellers list them by CFL equivalent wattage which is much higher than consumed power for comparison purposes, and the brightness equivalence is usually dubious anyhow. Caveat emptor.

SMD or surface mount device type are typed by MM dimensions; 5050 = 5.0 X 5.0 mm. These are good for lower wattage bulbs for night or fill/effect/mood lights, but there are better alternatives to higher wattage needs than the now ridiculous, 100+ emitter corn or disc lights.

COB or Chip On Board is the latest and greatest- a lot of emitters on a compact, easy to heatsink plate. These make great spot fixtures, and well designed 3/4 globe bulbs give good omnidirectional output. I saw a bulb that had 5 small COBs mounted at slight angles for an even better omni pattern, but have yet to buy one. Wattages are reaching 200 and these are screaming bright; even a 10 or 20 watt chip is too bright to stare directly at.

High power color LEDs are seeing interesting applications now too, from architectural color lighting including RGB 16 million color rendering to LED stage lighting without miles of thick snake cables; "actinic blue" for aquariums with blue and cool white emitters on one chip for a great undersea effect, to red + blue or even multi-band on one chip plant growth lights that hit the chlorophyll absorbtion spectra so directly that the leaves are said to look black under them.

No, I'm not selling LEDs, just an avid user! ;)
 
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CFLs are worthless in a cold area. I was forced to replace incandescent bulbs in my garage by "big brother" and now in the winter I bang around and stumble for 4 or 5 min. waiting for them to warm up.

While advocates of LED and CFL bulbs coo about their saving money "in the long run" the problem is wild quality control. The long run turned out to be less than a year for 60% of my newly purchased CFL bulbs and 33% of my LEDs purchased from a variety of manufacturers. Sure it saves me money if it last the tens-of-thousands of hours it's advertised for, but in the old days you said "crap, that bulb lasted a month, I'm out 25 cents" Now If it lasts less than a year you are out $5 or $6 dollars. LED are even more expensive per unit and I decided to fight for my money back on them...I wasted $100 worth of my time on the phone, at the store, it gas, and on the PC trying to get my money back. THAT is the unspoken problem.
 

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