Democrats block minimum wage increase

[PhantomWolf]

Well, what changed then? What was going on in 2012 that made a higher minimum wage a bad idea but now it's all good?

Perhaps it has something to do with the Current Account dropping from over 120 billion in the red in the first quarter of 2012 to just over 81 billion in the red in the 4th quarter of 2013, or that Unemployment fell from a high of 8.3% in 2012 to a low of 6.6% in the first quarter of 2014, or perhaps it's a GDP grow has been trending up rather than down, or that CA/GDP has dropped from -3.1% to -2.3%, or perhaps that the average wage has increased by around just 0.3% in that time, Inflation has averaged around 1.5%.

But I'm just guessing.

 

[Alareth]

I imply nothing. I just asking questions. . .

We are all well aware off how JAQ'ing off works.

 

[jj]

GUYS!!! This is a talking point, introducing a deliberately manipulated bill from 2012 (which it is educational to see what else is at issue there) to obstruct the current misconduct of the Senate, by, of course, the GOP.

This is a talking point, intended to obscure the present facts, and nothing more.

 

[Mudcat]

Whoever is against raising the minimum wage is wrong. There, isn't that simple? Now let's raise it.

I'm sorry to inform you that I'm against it.

The minimum wage has been around since 1938, meaning it has been around for nearly eighty years. It has been increased twenty-eight times since then and the real problem, the perpetually increasing prices of goods & services, hasn't stopped yet nor is it likely to with people keeping trying a failing tactic.

Now, if you're done proposing that Americans keep on pricing themselves out of work how about we discuss the real problem and how to fix it? That sound good to you?

Source.

 

[Peephole]

the real problem, the perpetually increasing prices of goods & services, hasn't stopped yet nor is it likely to with people keeping trying a failing tactic.

You want to live in a deflationary economy?

 

[Mudcat]

You want to live in a deflationary economy?

I would prefer to live in an economy where the prices of goods and services don't fluctuate unpredictably or increase beyond the means of people to afford them.

 

[a_unique_person]

I'm sorry to inform you that I'm against it.

The minimum wage has been around since 1938, meaning it has been around for nearly eighty years. It has been increased twenty-eight times since then and the real problem, the perpetually increasing prices of goods & services, hasn't stopped yet nor is it likely to with people keeping trying a failing tactic.

Now, if you're done proposing that Americans keep on pricing themselves out of work how about we discuss the real problem and how to fix it? That sound good to you?

Source.

I just showed you the stats. The minimum wage has not stopped the creation of most jobs at the minimum wage level.

 

[Beerina]

Maybe it illustrates that the Democrats aren't all that committed to a minimum wage increase? And that their noise about it recently is only a fart in the wind to get votes in an election year?

IIRC, politicians make a lot of noise about minimum wage increases in tough times, but raise it in good times when it is largely irrelevant to do so.

 

[Toke]

As far as I understand economics recession is the time to raise minimum wage in order to create some purchasing power.
It could also help create some inflation and get household debts under control.

 

[shuize]

As far as I understand economics recession is the time to raise minimum wage in order to create some purchasing power.
It could also help create some inflation and get household debts under control.

Maybe increased purchasing power for those who are fortunate enough to keep their jobs. What happens to the household debts of those a higher minimum wage puts out of work?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Maybe increased purchasing power for those who are fortunate enough to keep their jobs. What happens to the household debts of those a higher minimum wage puts out of work?

Yeah, I'm also I'm skeptical about the practice during a recession because the job I'm in relies heavily on realestate, and the recession made that industry absolutely crash. It was just starting when I was at my first job and I remember pretty well on my last few days just sitting at the office with nothing to do. They were burning money on me just being there, and I was let off shortly after.

The job I currently work at, when I first started was still doing a 32 hour week and having seen their project list it's apparent to me that they were very very tight for a time.

Raise the minimum wage and certain businesses like the one I work at which is small (5-8 people in all) wouldn't survive easily. In my particular case, I started above minimum wage, but some of the recent proposals would raise it above what I started at, which is why I mention.

 

[Trakar]

Shouldn't this be in the History sub-forum? (In the absence of an "Embarrassingly Partisan Attempts to Tar The Other Guys" sub-forum.)


Benghazi!

Gesundheit!

 

[Toke]

Maybe increased purchasing power for those who are fortunate enough to keep their jobs. What happens to the household debts of those a higher minimum wage puts out of work?

That (highlite) is an old myth, long debunked but kept shambling along by people wanting to keep inequality high.

Have you noticed how this depressed economy and high unemployment are giving great profits for companies and their owners?

 

[Tricky]

Maybe it illustrates that the Democrats aren't all that committed to a minimum wage increase? And that their noise about it recently is only a fart in the wind to get votes in an election year?

I'm pretty sure 2012 was an election year. It was in all the newspapers.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Raise the minimum wage and certain businesses like the one I work at which is small (5-8 people in all) wouldn't survive easily. In my particular case, I started above minimum wage, but some of the recent proposals would raise it above what I started at, which is why I mention.

Uh, those numbers don't work for me. Could you elaborate? 5-8 people? All on minimum wage? Let's say they're getting $7/hour now. It goes up to $10. All 8 people put in 40 hours a week? All 8 people would now gross $120/week more? That's four thousand a month.... fifty thousand a year... if all employees are minimum wage earners.

Where's the owner? How much does he/she earn or churn? None of those people are managers or supervisors or share holders?

 

[Beerina]

So if something might not be good at one period in time, then that means that circumstances can never change? If you're opposed to something you must be opposed to something for life, or are you merely implying the age old, "No one votes for democrats unless they're looking for a hand out?"

Of course circumstances change. Vital economic circumstances. Like an election this fall.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Uh, those numbers don't work for me. Could you elaborate? 5-8 people? All on minimum wage?

To answer your question, no. When I started working at the firm I made $10/hour. I make more now because I got a raise and I've been there for a couple of years. My coworkers make more than that, I can only assume because most of them have more experience and have been with the firm for a long while (4 years or more) whereas I've been with it for about 2 years. We're a firm of about 8 people in all

Let's say they're getting $7/hour now. It goes up to $10. All 8 people put in 40 hours a week? All 8 people would now gross $120/week more? That's four thousand a month.... fifty thousand a year... if all employees are minimum wage earners.

Before you go any further understand what I was making my point about... I think either you got confused or I wasn't very clear (possibly the latter )
I was talking about the idea of the minimum wage going up during an economic downturn. The concern I was highlighting is that my job is an architecture firm. It relies on the realestate and construction activity for a stable flow of projects from clients.

The flow of work from this industry varies with the state of the economy, and when it's doing well we have lots of work. That's our current situation. Raising the minimum wage right now probably wouldn't change things too radically. I for example was already paid above the current minimum when I started.

On the other hand, I've also been in this industry when the economy tanked. My first job was between 2007 and 2008 right around the time the economy went to pots. And it was still kinda slow when I started with my current job. When nobody is giving you projects in this field, you have no cash flow, as it is. I was one of the people that got laid off literally because they had nothing for me to do and they were having to pay for me being there, that's how bad it got when the recession was just beginning.

Add a hike in the minimum wage to during that time and I could understand why some people would complain about it.

Where's the owner? How much does he/she earn or churn? None of those people are managers or supervisors or share holders?

The firm is owned by an individual who participates in the firm very heavily and is usually proficient in getting clients. The impact of the recession forced him to reduce the weekly hours to 4 days a week for a time. And I've seen the project history. There was a very clear correlation between the recession and the amount of work that came in which is why I brought up my experience in the first place. I doubt a minimum wage hike during the recession would have helped him much back then other than to discourage hiring.

That's not to say we shouldn't raise it, I don't have every much of an opinion about it except that I do have reservations about doing it at the wrong time.

ETA: I weathered most of the downturn myself mostly because at the time I was finishing college and didn't have time to hold a job. But anecdotally many of classmates had said they had a lot of trouble getting work between 2008 and 2011 when I graduated. I had trouble initially in late 2011 finidng work too but not "as-bad" as when I got laid off

 

[Foolmewunz]

To answer your question, no. When I started working at the firm I made $10/hour. I make more now because I got a raise and I've been there for a couple of years. My coworkers make more than that, I can only assume because most of them have more experience and have been with the firm for a long while (4 years or more) whereas I've been with it for about 2 years. We're a firm of about 8 people in all



Before you go any further understand what I was making my point about... I think either you got confused or I wasn't very clear (possibly the latter )
I was talking about the idea of the minimum wage going up during an economic downturn. The concern I was highlighting is that my job is an architecture firm. It relies on the realestate and construction activity for a stable flow of projects from clients.

The flow of work from this industry varies with the state of the economy, and when it's doing well we have lots of work. That's our current situation. Raising the minimum wage right now probably wouldn't change things too radically. I for example was already paid above the current minimum when I started.

On the other hand, I've also been in this industry when the economy tanked. My first job was between 2007 and 2008 right around the time the economy went to pots. And it was still kinda slow when I started with my current job. When nobody is giving you projects in this field, you have no cash flow, as it is. I was one of the people that got laid off literally because they had nothing for me to do and they were having to pay for me being there, that's how bad it got when the recession was just beginning.

Add a hike in the minimum wage to during that time and I could understand why some people would complain about it.



The firm is owned by an individual who participates in the firm very heavily and is usually proficient in getting clients. The impact of the recession forced him to reduce the weekly hours to 4 days a week for a time. And I've seen the project history. There was a very clear correlation between the recession and the amount of work that came in which is why I brought up my experience in the first place. I doubt a minimum wage hike during the recession would have helped him much back then other than to discourage hiring.

That's not to say we shouldn't raise it, I don't have every much of an opinion about it except that I do have reservations about doing it at the wrong time.

ETA: I weathered most of the downturn myself mostly because at the time I was finishing college and didn't have time to hold a job. But anecdotally many of classmates had said they had a lot of trouble getting work between 2008 and 2011 when I graduated. I had trouble initially in late 2011 finidng work too but not "as-bad" as when I got laid off

Thanks for coming back and responding. I thought the thread was dead and almost didn't even look at it today.

Okay..... but none of that really lends credence to the claim I was commenting on. Yeah, your company might get some blowback if the economy is bad, but that is only related to the minimum wage if you assume that a raise in the minimum wage is somehow going to cause a drop in the economy. There are many other and more significant factors in a rising or falling economy than the minimum wage rate.

 

[Mudcat]

The minimum wage has not stopped the creation of most jobs at the minimum wage level.

But it does cause hours to be cut back. Or did you really think that employers would really pay more for the same amount of work?

 

[Trakar]

But it does cause hours to be cut back. Or did you really think that employers would really pay more for the same amount of work?

To think that they would rather forego earning any profits at all, because they are forced to pay fair and reasonable wages, is to deny reality and good sense. Business owners are used to thinking in terms of margins. They don't abruptly give up the venture because the margins shift, if they did they would quit their businesses daily, because most all marginal costs are variable and shift on a daily basis, at least in the real world.