Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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RWVBWL said:
Hey AC,
Someone, per Rudy,
Rang The Doorbell!

They did not knock...

Why the heck would Amanda ring the doorbell to her own residence?
And why the heck would Meredith open her doorway late on a night she was all alone,
with the music earphones that CodyJuneau recently pointed out, still in her ears?

Keep in mind that there was a person spotted outside in the garden in the week before Miss Kercher's brutal death.
Once by her, and another time by someone else too. By all accounts MK was concerned about this.

If Meredith was the least bit worried that night,
surely she would have closed and locked the front door security bars, right?
What am I talkin' about? Watch the crime scene video:
https://mega.co.nz/#!O4Zh3QxY!MLLxQsnTnxYs-zyAwlsjoak4-yw9QIPILsefu8ZDq08

For some reason
(maybe because we always did it to at my old surfshop in "DogTown")
I've felt that MK would have locked the front security bars too that night,
the 1st night she ever spent all all alone in her Italian villa.
Guede surely woulda had a hard time exiting then...
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I think it was in Filomena's testimony that we learn if you leave the key in the inside lock it cannot be unlocked from the outside. The girls however each have their individual key so they would not be leaving it in the lock where another resident might inadvertently walk off with it when leaving.

I don't recall any of the girls testifying that they used that security grate. It would have been easy to tell if it were recently used. There is a pin in the lower rail that must be inserted into a hole in the threshold before the gate can be closed. If that hole is filled with debris then the gate cannot be used. The photos I have seen are of insufficient resolution to tell if that hole is filled.

The gate is stored folded back against the wall. What I would expect to see if the gate were infrequently used is some object placed in front of it to keep it from swinging in the wind. I do not see that object nearby. Leaves have piled up against the gate. If you carefully pulled the leaves away, the weathering pattern in the dust would show the shape of any object that had been there until recently.

The doorbell is behind the stored position of the gate. This makes it rather useless unless you already know that it is there when the gate is open. The doorbell is also a video circuit according to Filomena. The other end of this circuit is the phone on the wall just inside the door. Rudy had to walk past this phone at least a couple of times and there had to be enough light in that hall to see the lock in the door. Did Rudy even think to try picking up the receiver to try to call for help? He never even mentions seeing it there. He says he wanted to call but he didn't know where a phone was. I think Rudy just wanted to get out of that house and had no intention of calling for help.
 
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I know this will never happen, but it would be fun to see the US make an extradition request for Mignini and the rest for falsely accusing Amanda of murder.

I mean, why do we need any real evidence and since we rarely convict in absentia, it would be interesting to see what Italy does in response.

Just wondering out loud,

d

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Does anyone think maybe Rudy put that picture of himself and Armani on the desktop of the laptop he stole in order to be able to show it to the cops should he be stopped and searched?

Also, how much would you get for a stolen laptop in Milan? Where do I google that? I'll try google ...
 
goalkeeper1 said:
I agree with the clock being 10 minutes fast but the clock on the film reads 20:53. If it's 10 minutes fast, then the actual time is 20:43 or am I missing something?
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The story from 2007 says it was 20:43 which would make it 20:33 if the clock was 10 minutes fast. It would make it 20:53 if the time stamp was 10 minutes slow. On Nov. 12, 2007 I don't believe any media was aware that the clock was fast or slow.

I think it was Giulia Bongiorno that first brought this out in public over the time the PP arrived.

I haven't seen the video pic with time stamp - is it available?
 
AmyStrange said:
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I know this will never happen, but it would be fun to see the US make an extradition request for Mignini and the rest for falsely accusing Amanda of murder.

I mean, why do we need any real evidence and since we rarely convict in absentia , it would be interesting to see what Italy does in response.

Just wondering out loud,

d

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Fun indeed! Jurisdiction? Maybe Amanda should bring a private prosecution on the 9th circuit or whatever.
 
RWVBWL said:
Why was the dark colored car, which had old license plates,
(like Kokomani's car did, from what I recall)
still there at the top of Meredith's driveway when the tow truck,
and the family whose broken down auto was repaired, then split the scene?

Any other suggestions?
RW
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I thought we had clear testimony that the dark car belonged to the couple that were with the couple in the broken down car.
 
goalkeeper1 said:
I agree with the clock being 10 minutes fast but the clock on the image reads 20:53. If it's 10 minutes fast, then the actual time is 20:43 or am I missing something?
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Now, I'm confused... The whole argument about when Raffaele called the Postal police revolved around the car park CCTV camera. OK I got it, the CCTV image stamp is 10 minutes after the actual time. So it is ten minutes behind..(is that slow or fast?) the actual time. It is 21:03 not 20:43.

This is the camera that the prosecution argued was 10 minutes after the actual time which showed the Postal police arriving before Raffaele called the police...when in fact the actual time was ten minutes before the actual time making that call about 18 minutes before his call to the police.

Hopefully, this explanation clears it up.

Sorry.
 
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Since you lazy sods can't be bothered to research anything I have found out how much a stolen laptop will go for. $250. Or £148 in real money or €181. Not too bad. Of course that's 2014 prices but maybe laptops were actually more desirable in 2007 than now. I dunno.

Crap..I think i may have bought a stolen laptop!?
Ok long story short i wa son my balcony and there was aguy at the soda macjine my dogs were barking at who had nice laptop under his arm = Compaq Presario c571nr = i had told him im isse dmy laptop (r.i.p) he told me he was selling his for 300 caus ehe needed to pay a bill ,well i said i'd buy for 250 AS I TOOK IT OUT OF MY RENT MONIES he said done deal =NOT THINKING= then my buddy had said "maybe it's stolen"? well it got me thinking and worrying as it seemed so innocent as it was in my apt complex. Anyway i am worried it is being tracked and i will get my self in a situation, I am very PARANOID and i am using someone elses unsecured WIFI, I could be right or i could be just SPOOKED either way i need some advice. I feel sorry for the person if it is stolen but i just spent 250 on it and all i know about this guy is "P"for a name i don't even know if he lives here. I made a wrong decision without thinking and i am also 250 down on RENT due tomorrow so i don't want to sell it if it's stolen.so does anyone have any advice PLEASE
!!!!!!!!1 =PS: If it is being tracked can they track me to my apt if i am not using my own wifi network...?
Update : well i was expecting a check today an dit didn't come so that's why i made that decision in the first place.. And thankyou for your answer i'm still wondering if they can track you on another persons network..
Update 2: and there is absolutely no sign of nay name on here as if is new
Update 3: hahah thanks ardy i don't have any discs to install or can i restore from memory?
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As Oscar Wild once said - you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
 
Outside the box, way outside...

Grinder said:
Bertha's stuck that can't be. Tesla said she was starting up the next day back in January. :p

RW - the night Rudy (one more time just for you) stayed at the nursery was Friday to Saturday so it does make sense that he wouldn't expect it to be open and the guy that let him in would be back.

Chris - the same coroner that declared there was nothing in the duodenum determined that the sex was consensual IIRC. I can give links to stories from the 3rd and 4th if you want. That was the genesis for the sex party gone wrong.

Strozzi - did I say somewhere I believed all of what Rudi said? No I didn't. I don't see why he would lie about the nursery (except he wouldn't admit the earlier big cash robbery) because it could easily be checked. The owner of the place (Prado) came into the place with a locksmith. She entered the place and found Rudi coming out of her office. No mention was made anywhere that the door had been jimmied (correct usage) or a window broken. He didn't have her computer or anything significant stolen from the nursery.
I think RW's find from the Spanish source, if true, puts a little different light on Rudy's (4RW) behavior pattern. It makes him look more like a fence than a solo burglar. As Randy laments it would be nice if a journalist had researched a fact based and footnoted book. How can it not be known until now that Rudi had a stash of computers. Did Rudi break into the nursery or was he let in? Did Rudi need money for the rent or had he put together plenty of cash from his entrepreneurial endeavors.

I have never thought that the kids broke the window particularly from the inside. I do believe it is possible that Rudi broke the window but ended up talking his way in.

I think it a low probability that Rudi had a date that night with Meredith but an outside possibility. In Italy the gravity of evidence is inversely proportional to the number of connections. Therefore if it possible, just possible it lowers the gravity of the alleged staging if another potential for staging can be put forward. Long ago while looking for other possibles for staging I thought IF Rudi had thought he had a date and Meredith had told her girlfriends he might stage a break-in to throw off the PLE. I doubt it and now know the PLE would not need to be thrown off.

Amanda wouldn't ring the bell but Raf might. Don't go wacky (u know who). Just an observation.

I doubt the bathroom story. I doubt the time of scream or even the scream account.

I believe the Milan account until we are given better info such as the nursery had its door jimmied or a window broken.

I think Koko was involved in some way and the scary guy RW talked about might be an additional accomplice. That accomplice could be the main burglar. There were unidentified prints and maybe DNA found at the cottage. Maybe it was the scary guy that killed Meredith and Rudi has no interest in doing anything to piss him off.
We have very little actual facts that make Rudi the burglar. CT didn't name Rudi to the police until he saw his picture in the paper. I'm sure others here will disagree but if I had the experience CT had and then recognized the perp I'd have taken the time to file a report. I doubt, unless confirmed, that Napoleoni the head of the flying squad would be there in the middle of the night to take CT's initial call/report.
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I guess more than anything I'm perplexed by this stream of points. Just taking two that jumped out at me;

First off - "He didn't have her computer or anything significant stolen from the nursery."

The point is, he was in a private place he wasn't supposed to be, and took a knife for protection. The parallel to the Kercher killing is too obvious to write.

Second point - "Maybe it was the scary guy that killed Meredith and Rudi has no interest in doing anything to piss him off."

The lack of any trace of anyone but Guede in the room where Meredith was killed, establishes only Guede killed Meredith, and only in that room.

At some point this type of speculation becomes so fevered its hard to believe you're serious, and not deriving some mischievous giggles from watching people agog at the absurdity of what your'e suggesting is "possible". I don't get it, I can't grasp where you're coming from with this stuff. Though I'm on board with other stuff you've posted, this one comes across like a 'hot flash'.
 
RWVBWL said:
Hi JS202,
Thanks for reading my posts,
I try to ad my 2 cents to the discussion, coming from a different point of view.
Back when I 1st started really digging into trying to understand this brutal murder, I read a lot of Perugia Shocks early posts, and the comments too.

As we just learned a few different bits of new info from an overlooked source, The Spanish Erasmus students, I also recall reading in PS comments from a gal from New Zealand, her moniker was Oceania or something like this.

Like the Spanish,
her son was in Perugia studying when Meredith was murdered. She made mention a few times, IIRC, that there was 1 particular dude that her son mentioned Rudy hanging out with, a very scary, mean type of guy.

I've always wondered of this guy.
Who was he, did he play any part whatsoever in Meredith's murder, which the Italian legal system believes was caused by more than 1 individual.

Rudy makes mention off seeing a drug dealer in Meredith's driveway when he went there. Why? What purpose does it serve?

What if Meredith had to walk by a car parked in her driveway entrance?
Rudy was already in her house, and this person ran up and attacked her in the dark as she entered or re-entered her home? Not stabbed her, but grabbed her and took her inside?

There was an old post on LMT's website, with a linked YouTube video, of a foreign gal in Perugia that was followed and then mugged and stabbed with a knife as she entered her flat, in daylight, I seem to remember. I posted a link to it here years ago, I think Mary H. and some other long time posters might remember this. I've been looking for it on YouTube, no luck so far, but it did help me to further understand the drug problems in Perugia.

I'd like to read more about Rudy from the students who interacted with him. The person Oceana's son mentioned has always remained an unknown entity. Rudy must have had a best friend. Was it this guy? Alex, Giacomo, Hekuran? Didn't Kokomani say that Rudy offered him 300E to borrow, err rent his car?

It would be interesting if some more info from Perugia's students came up.
They might know more about Guede than the police did...
RW
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Thanks for your reply, RW. I think you've mined a very interesting aspect of the background to the case with the Spanish students' accounts of Rudy. Probably because he was such a misfit amidst the middle and upper middle class college students in Perugia, he felt compelled to embellish who he was. But, on one hand, there is an acceptable degree of self-fashionining; and then, as in Rudy's case, there is a radical construction of an entirely different identity, which could allude to a certain degree of emotional and psychic instability. (As in Rimbaud's "I is another.") Also, as you say, Rudy's choice for burglary and drug-dealing as his actual day job no doubt says much about his true character, and inevitably about the people with whom he associated.

I recall that you are interested in the strand of light(er) colored hair that Meredith clasped in her hand when she was found. Along with the mysterious car, for me such things can be chalked up to recalcitrant data - enigmatic elements that inevitably exist within a scenario or system, but, because the natural order is inherently chaotic, don't necessarily disprove the most linear and logical conclusion.

You've pointed out that Rudy himself is a scumbag. Undeniably so. And based on his activity during this period, this tendency was burgeoning. That, combined with the actual evidence within the cottage, convinces me that some of these other elements, while inexplicable, are distractions from what, almost to a certainty, occurred that night.
 
Strozzi said:
Randy makes an excellent point about Rudy taking his trousers to the toilet. Allow me to dissect what Rudy's claim means.

Rudy earlier (first) claimed that he was on the toilet when he heard Meredith scream. He claimed he ran out to aid her and his trousers, not up all the way, were fallling down around his legs.

Now we learn that immediately preceeding going into the bathroom, Rudy and Meredith were embracing in the kitchen, had both taken their trousers off, and Meredith was permitting Rudy to engage in a most intimate sexual act of arousal/foreplay with her when Rudy suddenly needed to get to the toilet.
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Rudy also claimed that Meredith was fully dressed when he left her to die.
 
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Grinder said:
The problem for the two is that they were each other's alibi. It would seem to me that while it is certainly theoretically possible that one or the other was involved in the murder without the other, they have combined their fates with their alibi.

Since Raf sits in Italy his fate is more immediate and I can see that his team is feeling extra pressure. At this point I wouldn't blame them for trying anything and Nencini's comments to the press may seem as guide to them.

No one that I've seen has commented on the picture in terms of if it could be Amanda. I haven't seen a coat similar to the one in the picture and she is using the opposite hand to hold the backpack. While people can switch they do tend to be creatures of habit.

Was this in the official trial records? I can't believe they wouldn't have released this the first week as they did everything else.
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Yup, and even if he does turn on her (which I doubt), he can't just say she left him, because he would have to explain where she went and what she did while she was gone, unless he admits he was with her.

Not only that, he would have to explain what she did with her bloody clothes, and how his DNA got on Meredith's bra, but of course this is italy so who would know how they would work that.

But as always, that's just my opinion,

d

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I have posted this before but as we are talking about how Rudy got in … Remember he says Meredith unlocked the door with her keys. Like, he actually says that. That's like saying she used her right arm or that she had her right foot slightly ahead of her left when opening the door. Nobody says that. Even if they notice. It's among all the thousands of things happening every minute that we just pay no heed to. So, it seems reasonable to me to think he heard her keys when she came in, when he was already taking a crap. Now that would make the sound of the keys an enormously significant event - to him and, to me, explains why the keys got into his story.

Another thing, since I am on about this, is his taking a drink straight from a bottle in the fridge. What revolting pig does that as a first-time guest in somebody else's place? I know Grinder will now pop up and say that is how everybody behaves in Seattle and that he washes his walls every other week too but I do not buy it. Guilty. String him up.

ETA and before I forget, Grinder will also tell us he takes his favourite fish knife everywhere when visiting friends for dinner, just in case they don't have one. Puh-leeeezzze!
 
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goalkeeper1 said:
I'm a newbie poster on this site but have been a LONG-TIME reader and admirer of the people who post here. First let me state that, like a lot of people, in 2007-08 I started out thinking that A+R were guilty but as time wore on and I read more I became convinced of their absolute innocense. The reason I'm postting today is that I came across some information provided by one of the moderators of the Websleuths site that I think should put to rest once and for all the CCTV controversy

"If the video had relevance it would have been used at trial. Jovana Popovic testified that RS had agreed to drive her to a bus station the night of the murder. She went to RS's house at 8:40 p.m. to tell him she no longer needed a ride and Knox opened the door to take the message. The CCTV video is at 8:43.

I have citations for this information, both from nbc news and the guardian but this site won't let me post them until I have made 15 posts. Sorry!

I wish more people, especially the Guilters, knew about this fact but on second thought, it probably would make little difference to the Guilters.
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Jovana's time is approximate but fairley well confined because she is on the way to her class which has a known start time. Amanda is answering the door presumably because Raffaele is busy at the time. We know Raffaele is busy very near that time because he is on the landline phone with his father at 8:42 pm.


Untill I see the the full frame of the image showing a person entering the car park, I will not even accept that it is valid evidence. The time is too coincidentally the same as the time claimed for the figure crossing the street. I want to see the exact timestamp on that video frame. And for the earlier figure crossing the street, we have learned that the clock on the CCTV camera was off and the prosecutions correction was based on hearsay evidence and their assumption that the clock was fast was demonstrated to be incorrect by Raffaele's defense. There is zero evidence of any CCTV image at 8:43 pm.
 
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Wouldn't it be nice...

AmyStrange said:
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I know this will never happen, but it would be fun to see the US make an extradition request for Mignini and the rest for falsely accusing Amanda of murder.

I mean, why do we need any real evidence and since we rarely convict in absentia , it would be interesting to see what Italy does in response.

Just wondering out loud,

d

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I would love to see this happen. But the first step is for the US to open a formal investigation into the arrest and prosecution of Amanda Knox.

It would be great to see, but the politics is hard to predict. Why do investigations occur, or not? Who is important enough for the government to protect, who not so much and is basically on their own? Short of killing a US citizen, it seems the US government doesn't usually get too exercised, short of publicity that embarrasses us into action.

I'm certainly no expert on extradition, but I can't imagine a request without a carefully assembled body of evidence specifically prepared in contemplation of trial or arrest.

As for a private action in US court, I'm not sure. Jurisdiction is one issue. Also, under whose law is suit being made, US or Italian? What was done that was wrong? Violation of US civil rights? Are there international rights that the US recognizes? Wrongful imprisonment? Kidnapping? All good questions. Seems like a bridge too far, for today. But in time, who knows?
 
anglolawyer said:
Since you lazy sods can't be bothered to research anything I have found out how much a stolen laptop will go for. $250. Or £148 in real money or €181. Not too bad. Of course that's 2014 prices but maybe laptops were actually more desirable in 2007 than now. I dunno.

As Oscar Wild once said - you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
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How can you make that argument anglo? Simply not possible unless you know how old the laptop is, what processor it has, how much RAM, hard drive size and the market specifically in the area.

I'll defer to Chris and Planigale and Diocletus on the DNA. But this is in my wheelhouse. This is 20 years as an IT broker selling both NEW and used IT equipment and used personal computers sucks. Nothing in the IT world depreciates faster than it does. I sold legitimate used IT equipment and the price would vary on everything from 5 cents on the dollar to actually more than the items were new depending on it what it was. But personal computers..not servers, or routers or switches might sell for at most 50 cents on the dollar and it would depreciate to nothing very fast. To get any kind of realistic estimate on the value of that laptop, you would need to know how much it was selling for new, how old and the condition of the laptop and the market around you. $200-$300 is probably a good wag...but it still would be nothing better than a guess. Since Perugia is college town, my guess is that it would be pretty easy to find a buyer if the price was right...but it would all be about selling for the right price.
 
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There have been colleges who have replayed the Lizzy Borden trial
Something like that could be redone in a university as a class project and the whole thing be recorded.
 
AmyStrange said:
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I know this will never happen, but it would be fun to see the US make an extradition request for Mignini and the rest for falsely accusing Amanda of murder.

I mean, why do we need any real evidence and since we rarely convict in absentia, it would be interesting to see what Italy does in response.

Just wondering out loud,

d

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The main problem is that the US courts won't accept jurisdiction for acts committed outside of the US. But there is still a chance to get them. All we need is an extradition hearing held in the US and let them come here to repeat their lies.
 
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