Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

[Warmer1]

If the world is not on fire we should stop yelling FIRE.

Here is a video of Arnold Swarzenegger showing that the world IS ON FIRE! He states in the video that there is no fire season and that the fires now burn year round. The head firefighter also acknowledges the changes he has seen.

http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/story/fire-line/ Watch the spotlight video

Here is more of Arnold Swartenegger on climate change. Click a few links to get to the video. Go to "Behind the Scenes" and click on the video on the left.

http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/executive-producer/arnold-schwarzenegger/

A quote from the website
"During the time I was in office we have seen the beginning of the elimination of the fire season completely and are having fires all year round. I think we have seen the major problem of the destruction of land and property and lives that is a major problem because we don’t have the resources for that many fires and we don’t have the resources and the manpower to fight those fires throughout the year.

Arnold Schwarzenegger"

Here is a team of Hot Shots that were killed in a fire. It's not funny at all.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/07/us/yarnell-fire/

Thanks for coming back here to see the responses that you get.

Does CO2 trap IR?
( I now officially owe MacDoc 6 Internet points for using his question)

 

[CapelDodger]

Wow is [the Hockey Stick] still a thing?

Hockey Stick, Al Gore, SlimeItGate - for some people these things never go away. Really, Al Gore. Still. As if it wasn't all Obama's idea from the beginning .

 

[macdoc]

Fire....such an odd choice of words given the situation in many areas including California, the boreal forest in Canada and Russia and especially Australia....

They woould beg to differ that it's not getting critical...

Warming 'increasingly disruptive' across US - reportMatt McGrath
By Matt McGrath
Environment correspondent, BBC News

snip

Climate change is having significant financial, ecological and human health impacts across the US, according to a new report.

The third National Climate Assessment, released by the White House, says the number and strength of extreme weather events have increased over the past 50 years.

Infrastructure is being damaged by sea level rise, downpours and extreme heat.

The report says these impacts are likely to worsen in the coming decades.

Coming hot on the heels of the trio of reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the assessment re-iterates the finding that climate change is real, and "driven primarily by human activity".

more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27296417

take your pick, fire or flood .....both are increasing in frequency as extreme weather becomes the norm.

 

[ABC10]

Deniers laughing their heads and a** off after White House "Climate" Report. OMG!

 

[ABC10]

Oops, duplicate.

 

[lomiller]

Deniers laughing their heads and a** off after White House "Climate" Report.

Laughter as mechanism for avoiding unpleasant facts isn’t exactly a new phenomenon.

I’m more interested in why deranged laugher is sufficient reason to sway your thinking towards climate denial. Would you care to explain why you find this more convincing than facts and science?

 

[Armitage72]

I saw someone claim that the report was obvious fake fearmongering because it was all negative with no positive points.

Ummm...

The rising sea levels will create valuable new beachfront property?
Alaska will be transformed into a balmy vacation destination?
Diminished food production will help reduce American obesity?

 

[lomiller]

I saw someone claim that the report was obvious fake fearmongering because it was all negative with no positive points.

Ummm...

The rising sea levels will create valuable new beachfront property?
Alaska will be transformed into a balmy vacation destination?
Diminished food production will help reduce American obesity?

It’s actually silly to expect anything else. Current ecology and economics conditions are predicated on current climate conditions. Even if there are benefits to some local long term, during the interterm period when ecology/economy adjusts all you get is the downside.

 

[CapelDodger]

Greenland : the new Hamptons. Plots available. Get in now, at the bottom of the market.

 

[CapelDodger]

Deniers at WUWT are up in arms about the US National Climate Assessment
http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2014/05/deniers-at-wuwt-are-up-in-arms-about-us.html

Sou at Hotwhopper archives WUWT posts so you can wonder at them while not providing hits. 5 WUWT articles on the report already; well, it takes their minds off all that frightening weather out there.

Sou identifies some themes:

The "they're trying to scare you" theme.
The "we'll adapt" theme
The "it's all a hoax" theme
The "it's political" theme.

(I'll claim one small Told You So for the last of those )

 

[ABC10]

Greenland : the new Hamptons. Plots available. Get in now, at the bottom of the market.

So funny. Love it. IMO, everything supporting or attacking each viewpoint has been said over, and over and over. Charts, stats, polar bear on an ice drift which they do and have done forever and can swim, has been thrown at each other. Time to see what happens, although trying to hide the decline for almost 17 years has not helped the warmer cause or those emails. In any event, right now today I don't think any of those dire predications have been realized. I mean glaciers advance, retreat and calve. It's what they do and Greenland still got over a mile plus of ice sheets in most areas. Just my thoughts and Big Al Gore still owns ocean front property. Is there anyone on earth that does not know if you live by the water some day you will see you house floating away? Sometime it is a couple of miles from the water.
Sadly, most of us won't be seeing the "end of the story" and will be long gone when the predictions do or don't come true. Those yet to be born will be better handing any of these issue themselves. Right now, today we need clean water for all. The south west has always been about drought, fire and floods. Nothing new there.
Anybody know one of those doom and gloom predictions that did come true and made it beyond the "might" "could" stage?

 

[uke2se]

So funny. Love it. IMO, everything supporting or attacking each viewpoint has been said over, and over and over. Charts, stats, polar bear on an ice drift which they do and have done forever and can swim, has been thrown at each other. Time to see what happens,

And we are seeing what is happening. The Earth is warming.

although trying to hide the decline for almost 17 years has not helped the warmer cause or those emails.

What decline is that?

As for the emails, you mean the stolen emails that several investigations concluded showed no malfeasance?

In any event, right now today I don't think any of those dire predications have been realized.

No, in fact it's looking increasingly worse than once thought.

I mean glaciers advance, retreat and calve. It's what they do and Greenland still got over a mile plus of ice sheets in most areas.

So as long as there's some ice left in Greenland there's no reason to worry?

Just my thoughts and Big Al Gore still owns ocean front property.

Denier-bingo players can now check another box.

Is there anyone on earth that does not know if you live by the water some day you will see you house floating away? Sometime it is a couple of miles from the water.

Do you think that Dutch people, or Bangladeshi people, or New Yorkers should just take it in stride and make their homes further from the shore? Are you willing to let them live on your land?

Sadly, most of us won't be seeing the "end of the story" and will be long gone when the predictions do or don't come true. Those yet to be born will be better handing any of these issue themselves.

That's a monumentally stupid thing to say if you have any inclination about what's going on.

Right now, today we need clean water for all. The south west has always been about drought, fire and floods. Nothing new there.

So since we need clean water today we shouldn't do anything about climate change?

Anybody know one of those doom and gloom predictions that did come true and made it beyond the "might" "could" stage?

As I said, most of them have worsened. That is, the problem has in the past been underestimated because climate scientists aren't prone to being alarmist.

That said, glaciers are melting, the Earth is warming, crops are ruined, people are forced to relocate in massive numbers, etc etc etc.

 

[ABC10]

And the prediction that actually came true IS???????????????

 

[uke2se]

And the prediction that actually came true IS???????????????

Trouble reading?

That said, glaciers are melting, the Earth is warming, crops are ruined, people are forced to relocate in massive numbers, etc etc etc.

 

[ABC10]

Trouble reading?

And ever has it been so. Nothing new there. It's a wild, unpredictable world out there and always has been. Glaciers melt, grow and calve grow since time eternal. Crops have always been ruined and flourished cept during the Ice Age when nothing grow at all. Where are the massive population relocations except for everyone wanting to come to a first world society? People rebuild near the water all the time after storms and hurricanes. Its what they do. Yep, some folk choose to live in low lying areas that flood on occasion.

 

[macdoc]

Originally Posted by ABC10 View Post
although trying to hide the decline for almost 17 years has not helped the warmer cause or those emails.

what decline would that be?.....do think repeating nonsense makes it true. You are in a science forum ....not Faux news comment column

Care to explain this?

Global warming includes all the physical systems of the planet, water, ice and atmosphere of which atmosphere is most transient.

The last El Nino caused some 12 billion in damages and killed thousands.
This one looks to be as bad or worse.....and it's heat driven.

It was predicted that a warming climate would cause major issues with the boreal forest.
It has.
Canada is 3.6 degrees C warmer in winter on average than 60 years ago.
Care to explain that?

You are rehashing tired arguments that have no scientific merit. The world has moved on ....even Exxon has moved on ....did you not get the memo?

 

[CapelDodger]

So funny. Love it. IMO, everything supporting or attacking each viewpoint has been said over, and over and over.

Everything you're saying certainly has been. (Al Gore? Really?)

What you haven't dealt with, or even registered apparently, is all the things which have happened since you started blaming it all on Al Gore. The continuing warming, the retreat of glaciers, shrinking of ice-caps, the successful model results and the improved models we now have, the absence of any other explanation for what's happening to the climate. All the new data collected from ice-cores and sediments confirming just how unusual this is.

Instead you keep hoping that something will one day be found in a stolen email or hacked private forum which will provide evidence for the conspiracy you know must exist. You even tell yourself you've found it, apparently.

Charts, stats ...

The laws of physics.

... polar bear on an ice drift ...

Polar bears? Really? That's what you worry about? I know they look impressive and almost cuddly from a distance, but get within reach and they're a bloody menace. Stick some in zoos and shoot the rest, I say.

If you really want something to worry about, worry about coffee. It only grows in certain climates, and those climates are becoming more and more uncertain.

 

[ABC10]

I am not a physicist. I'm not even Sheldon. Leave that to the big boys like Doc Richard Lindzen who has the brains, education and knowledge to know what he is talking about. Poor Jones looks very bad these days.
Ah, Big Al Gore is an easy fun dopey target. He can take care of himself.
I think the AGW, climate change, whatever you choose to call our long planet history of changing climates is normal, customary and usual. An no, I can't explain those charts folk throw around, but then neither can they. MOO.
I'm not worried. We got a short life span here on the planet. Why worry?
I am thrilled that the polar bears are thriving though.

 

[macdoc]

Lindzen ?? oh my poor choice of mentor. Fossil fuel paid shill definitely past best by date.
Just one more Faux news regurg.
This is a science forum, if you don't have any, why are you here?

The graph is self explanatory.
You claimed there was a pause or whatever in that thing you don't understand which is climate change which Exxon and the rest of the world's science community says is a serious risk.
I simply pointed out that there was no pause.
AGW record includes ocean, atmosphere and ice.
All of which have solid records of warming.

So now you are better informed about what you don't know about despite wanting to participate in a science forum about climate change.

Disingenuous perhaps?

Little peurile sound bites about polar bears etc don't cut it here.
It's not tree hugger turf.
It's a science forum.

 

[CapelDodger]

Greenland melting due equally to global warming, natural variations
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140507132657.htm

The rapid melting of Greenland glaciers is captured in the documentary "Chasing Ice." The retreat of the ice edge from one year to the next sends more water into the sea.

Now University of Washington atmospheric scientists have estimated that up to half of the recent warming in Greenland and surrounding areas may be due to climate variations that originate in the tropical Pacific and are not connected with the overall warming of the planet.

The natural variations in the new study related to an unusually warm western tropical Pacific, near Papua New Guinea. Since the mid-1990s the water surface there has been about 0.3 degrees hotter than normal. Computer models show this affects the regional air pressure, setting off a stationary wave in the atmosphere that arcs in a great circle from the tropical Pacific toward Greenland before turning back over the Atlantic.

"Along this wave train there are warm spots where the air has been pushed down, and cold spots where the air has been pulled up," Wallace said. "And Greenland is in one of the warm spots."

In previous studies, Wallace and Battisti have documented the existence of decades-long climate variations in the Pacific Ocean that resemble the well-known shorter-range El Niño variations.

This sounds like the PDO, which apparently changed phase soon after the '98 El Nino, so when it changes phase again we'll presuimably see something close to a halt in Greenland ice-loss if this result is correct.

I like this :

Researchers can't say for how long the tropical Pacific will remain in this state.


"Our work shows that about half of the warming signal in Greenland comes from the predictable part -- forcing of climate by anthropogenic greenhouse gases -- but about half comes from the unpredictable part," Steig said.

It's the unpredictable which remains endlessly fascinating, of course.