Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

Motive can be conscious or unconscious per Carver's def.

It was speculated that perhaps the motive for Rudi killing Meredith was that she screamed. To put a finer point on it, that scream would be because he was doing something that freaked her out. If Amanda and Raf were there and did something that freaked her out like a prank and she screamed they too could have killed because of a scream.

I find it humorous that we have a scenario where Meredith's screams as heard by Nara (after going to bed between 9 and 9:30 and waking up a couple hours later and THEN hearing the scream) are used as evidence there was a scream but the same people put TOD at 9:20 partially because Rudi reported the scream at that time. If one is to use Nara's scream then TOD has to be after the tow truck leaves at 11:15. Nara's testimony like Curatolo's is worthless.

Motive as defined clearly isn't of much value since it can be conscious or unconscious, which basically means that it means nothing. The motive might not even be known to the perp.

People can repeat "no motive" twenty times but that doesn't prove innocence or even put hardly any weight on that side of the scales. A clear motive would put weight on the other side.

But of course since they are innocent they can't have a motive.

 

[Diocletus]

From Amanda's blog, some translated Nonsense text:



From another part of the forest, some translated testimony of the fingerprint guy:



So how (never mind why) did Amanda remove all her prints from the apartment while leaving all the others? Nencini does not ask himself this question. He simply reasons that since her prints weren't found outside the room (er, why can't they be among those the witness didn't bother to collect?) their absence from the room itself does not prohibit the conclusion she was there. He is positive there was a clean up:



I have a question about all this. What does 'vulnus' mean?

IDK, but it sounds dirty.

 

[acbytesla]

My biggest problem is that often they lie to you and try to get you to make unnecessary repairs. Tend to be a DYI person myself for that reason whenever possible.

On the post you responded to though, think about the fact that BTK was a security system installer
Believe the Hillside Strangers were security officers as well.

Does make you wonder. The BTK killer had done security system installs for ADT, but I don't believe he actually killed anyone where he had done an install. At the time of 7 of his 10 murders he was working as an assembler for Coleman camping gear.

He was also the president of Congregation Council at his church and involved in the cub scouts. He was caught because he sent a Microsoft WORD document. The metadata identified the church and someone named Dennis. They knew that the killer drove a Black Jeep Cherokee. They drove by Dennis Rader's home and noticed a black Cherokee parked outside. Bingo.

 

[js202]

Thanks for the validation that bleach takes "some time", in fact it depends on the type of household bleach being used

Household bleach sold for use in laundering clothes is a 3-8% solution of sodium​

Once again the context of my original statement was that they should easily have been able to damage the DNA beyond recognition or destroy it completely given all the time they had. As you pointed out a quick wipe might not do the job, but I can't imagine these very clever kids not letting the knife soak awhile in bleach.

Your post is subjective to the point of being otiose. Momentarily neglecting the fact that the kitchen knife makes no sense whatsoever as the murder weapon, the excerpt Chris_Halkides references mentions Clorox - is this not household enough for you? - destroying both DNA and RNA within a minute.

If it took three seconds, it would be "some time", just as if it took three weeks. But I think that most reasonable persons would agree that one minute or less would be an entirely satisfactory period to safely do the job of covering one's murderous tracks.

 

[acbytesla]

Motive can be conscious or unconscious per Carver's def.

It was speculated that perhaps the motive for Rudi killing Meredith was that she screamed. To put a finer point on it, that scream would be because he was doing something that freaked her out. If Amanda and Raf were there and did something that freaked her out like a prank and she screamed they too could have killed because of a scream.

I find it humorous that we have a scenario where Meredith's screams as heard by Nara (after going to bed between 9 and 9:30 and waking up a couple hours later and THEN hearing the scream) are used as evidence there was a scream but the same people put TOD at 9:20 partially because Rudi reported the scream at that time. If one is to use Nara's scream then TOD has to be after the tow truck leaves at 11:15. Nara's testimony like Curatolo's is worthless.

Motive as defined clearly isn't of much value since it can be conscious or unconscious, which basically means that it means nothing. The motive might not even be known to the perp.

People can repeat "no motive" twenty times but that doesn't prove innocence or even put hardly any weight on that side of the scales. A clear motive would put weight on the other side.

But of course since they are innocent they can't have a motive.

The problem with your response, is that the requirement for motive goes up exponentially when more people are involved in the murder. Do people actually believe that Raffaele, just happened to be crazy and Amanda was crazy and Rudy was crazy? All at the same time. Three almost total stranger afflicted with an overwhelming desire to murder someone? That the moment that one of them pulled the knife on Amanda the other two said..."hey, that looks like fun" or would at least one of the other two go... "woe, wait a minute"? Sadly, the judge ruled that there had to be multiple assailants even though the vast majority of actual experts said that it could have easily been only one killer.

I get Grinder where one person might have a screw loose and alone killed a friend, because of an argument, but three? I don't think so.

 

[carbonjam72]

Rudy's break-ins

He's not really familiar with this case Samson, But he and the literature will tell you that a common burglary tactic is breaking in through a window. That burglars will do it for two reasons. One to gain entry and two to make just loud enough noise to startle the people inside. If no one responds, they know that no one is home, if they do, they move on to another target.

To be frank, gaining entry by window breaking doesn't really single out a burglar, I also don't think that the rock throwing is really all that significant. People will use whatever is available. I just don't think you can ignore the "cluster" of burglaries in and around his apartment in such a short time period. Christian, the law office, Ms. Diaz and the cottage are all within a few blocks of Rudy's home. The exception of course is the nursery. None of this proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Rudy committed these crimes. That said, it is far too large a clue to just dismiss.

Not sure if you meant this, but the Milan Nursery break-in is also exceptional in that Rudy was caught inside enjoying himself, and I think he admitted that he broke in needing a place to stay - and having borrowed an eleven inch knife from the nursery kitchen which he felt he needed for protection. So I think its ok to give him credit for that one.

 

[acbytesla]

IDK, but it sounds dirty.

vulnus means wound

 

[acbytesla]

Not sure if you meant this, but the Milan Nursery break-in is also exceptional in that Rudy was caught inside enjoying himself, and I think he admitted that he broke in needing a place to stay - and having borrowed an eleven inch knife from the nursery kitchen which he felt he needed for protection. So I think its ok to give him credit for that one.

No I didn't, but you are right on. It is the nursery break in that connects Rudy to the law office and his next door neighbor. Without Rudy being caught there, the only thing we would know about is Christian Tremantano.

The evidence of these other crimes I would think would be compelling to everyone as opposed to the anecdotal evidence of the burglary being "staged". You would think the cops would have said..."wait a minute, why are we looking at the burglary being staged" when it's pretty damn clear that Rudy is a dangerous burglar?"

 

[RandyN]

There are sometimes downsides to throwing rocks through windows.

Here is just the first result of a search to see if it was common:

OK...that has to be one of the funniest things I have seen...ever!

 

[acbytesla]

OK...that has to be one of the funniest things I have seen...ever!

It is, isn't it? I keep wondering if that is real? If it is, I wonder if they regained consciousness and gave up?

 

[Grinder]

No I didn't, but you are right on. It is the nursery break in that connects Rudy to the law office and his next door neighbor. Without Rudy being caught there, the only thing we would know about is Christian Tremantano.

The evidence of these other crimes I would think would be compelling to everyone as opposed to the anecdotal evidence of the burglary being "staged". You would think the cops would have said..."wait a minute, why are we looking at the burglary being staged" when it's pretty damn clear that Rudy is a dangerous burglar?"

I don't recall anything but Nina saying she interviewed Diaz and that Diaz was reading a police report that Nina didn't have a copy of.

Is there any information that CT told a third party about Rudi before the murder? I know he says he spotted Rudi in a club and either threw him out or had him thrown out.

Personally the lawyers' office and the Milan nursery are enough for the PLE to reevaluate the "staged" break in.

 

[cuki777]

culi pbs #67

see below

 

[RandyN]

It's incredible. Borsini (Rudy's appeals court judge) and Massei write about Knox's "genetic material" being mixed with Meredith's blood. Out of thin air, Nencini writes about mixed-blood. If it were mixed blood, I'd be a guilter.

Nothing at trial submitted by even the most vile prosecutor has proven mixed blood. It's on issues like this that the case turns; Jesus Mary and Joseph, this is a murder of a young woman just entering her prime, like Knox and Sollecito were. You'd think they'd get this right. What is the matter with Italy?

Now Barbie Nadeau has returned with her assertion that it is "mixed blood". All this after even Harry Rag after years of harping on about it, revised his opinion to "Material mixed with Meredith's blood."

Barbie is also returning with, "Knox knows something she's not telling us." Raffaele continues as the forgotten man, and Rudy Guede is poised to get out of jail, freshly convicted of the theft at the lawyer's office.

Nencini reduces Guede to a virtual innocent bystander, and his DNA and his DNA alone is found inside the victim and in the victim's purse.

Yes, folks, that's the state of this case as the ISC prepares to sign off on wrongful convictions. Soon they will be sending the 1997 exoneration of Galileo back to the 2nd grade level for reconsideration.

Someone closely affected by Nadeau's lies should sue her for reporting falsehoods.

She is back now most likely to produce promotional material for her upcoming movie...just like when she was whoring in every venue that would listen when trumping up sales for her book.

I would sue both her and Vogt/Russell.

 

[cuki777]

cuki pbs #67

I don't recall anything but Nina saying she interviewed Diaz and that Diaz was reading a police report that Nina didn't have a copy of.

Is there any information that CT told a third party about Rudi before the murder? I know he says he spotted Rudi in a club and either threw him out or had him thrown out.

Personally the lawyers' office and the Milan nursery are enough for the PLE to reevaluate the "staged" break in.

So the previous break in shows how RG reacts when he is carrying a knife and discovered by a woman in a place he should not be.

 

[Diocletus]

So the previous break in shows how RG reacts when he is carrying a knife and discovered by a woman in a place he should not be.

I'm sorry Cukes, but this comment isnt up to snuff for you. You'll have to come up with something better next time.

You should look at this, though: http://murderofmeredithkercher.com/missing-profiles-draft/

 

[acbytesla]

So the previous break in shows how RG reacts when he is carrying a knife and discovered by a woman in a place he should not be.

Actually it doesn't cuki. Maria Del Prato was accompanied by two men when she caught Rudy in her nursery. There is no telling what might have happened if she was alone.

 

[RandyN]

He's not really familiar with this case Samson, But he and the literature will tell you that a common burglary tactic is breaking in through a window. That burglars will do it for two reasons. One to gain entry and two to make just loud enough noise to startle the people inside. If no one responds, they know that no one is home, if they do, they move on to another target.

To be frank, gaining entry by window breaking doesn't really single out a burglar, I also don't think that the rock throwing is really all that significant. People will use whatever is available. I just don't think you can ignore the "cluster" of burglaries in and around his apartment in such a short time period. Christian, the law office, Ms. Diaz and the cottage are all within a few blocks of Rudy's home. The exception of course is the nursery. None of this proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Rudy committed these crimes. That said, it is far too large a clue to just dismiss.

Not too big of an exception though since the nursery is at least in the same city as RG aunt...a place and person he often visited, lived with, whatever. I have never heard anything about how far she lives from the nursery...might be interesting to search out that info.

 

[JREF2010]

Someone closely affected by Nadeau's lies should sue her for reporting falsehoods.

She is back now most likely to produce promotional material for her upcoming movie...just like when she was whoring in every venue that would listen when trumping up sales for her book.

I would sue both her and Vogt/Russell.

There is a fine line of causing someone serious issues or just an opinion.
I dont know, Italy, at least Perugia and Florence silenced Frank's blog....yet Barbie and Andrea can slander away without accountability?

and who leaks all this police info to the media everytime there is some attention to the case?

Has a communistic taste, with an Italian flavor.

 

[RandyN]

Your post is subjective to the point of being otiose. Momentarily neglecting the fact that the kitchen knife makes no sense whatsoever as the murder weapon, the excerpt Chris_Halkides references mentions Clorox - is this not household enough for you? - destroying both DNA and RNA within a minute.

If it took three seconds, it would be "some time", just as if it took three weeks. But I think that most reasonable persons would agree that one minute or less would be an entirely satisfactory period to safely do the job of covering one's murderous tracks.

Well lets not forget that just the blade part was bleach cleaned too. The handle part and AK DNA there was a much bigger quantity. IIRC.

 

[cuki777]

cuki pbs #68

Actually it doesn't cuki. Maria Del Prato was accompanied by two men when she caught Rudy in her nursery. There is no telling what might have happened if she was alone.

fair point but not quite as clear cut

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150169643774261

a locksmith and her six year old son.

she led the way though they were right behind her coming up stairs. RG reaction was calm and he accepted he'd been caught. They called the police so the 'two men' were not seen as much security.

Its still a big stretch from how he reacted here to turning into a murderous necrophiliac