New Disclosures on Benghazi

Status
Not open for further replies.
You did not answer my question. I'll answer yours though:

No. Looters were.

I trust that you understand the difference?

Cool.

Where does it say "looters" or "after the attack" in the following paragraph from an article published on September 12, 2012:

Fighters involved in the assault, which was spearheaded by an Islamist brigade formed during last year’s uprising against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, said in interviews during the battle that they were moved to attack the mission by anger over a 14-minute, American-made video that depicted the Prophet Muhammad, Islam’s founder, as a villainous, homosexual and child-molesting buffoon.

Or in these paragraphs from that same article:

It is unclear if television images of Islamist protesters may have inspired the attack in Benghazi, which had been a hotbed of opposition to Colonel Qaddafi and remains unruly since the Libyan uprising resulted in his death. But Tuesday night, a group of armed assailants mixed with unarmed demonstrators gathered at the small compound that housed a temporary American diplomatic mission there.

The ambassador, Mr. Stevens, was visiting the city Tuesday from the United States Embassy compound in Tripoli to attend the planned opening of an American cultural center, and was staying at the mission. It is not clear if the assailants knew that the ambassador was at the mission.

Interviewed at the scene on Tuesday night, many attackers and those who backed them said they were determined to defend their faith from the video’s insults. Some recalled an earlier episode when protesters in Benghazi had burned down the Italian consulate after an Italian minister had worn a T-shirt emblazoned with cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad. Ten people were reportedly killed in clashes with Colonel Qaddafi’s police force.

Or these paragraphs:

Libya’s deputy interior minister, Wanis al-Sharif, made somewhat contradictory and defensive-sounding statements about the attack.

He acknowledged that he had ordered the withdrawal of security forces from the scene in the early stages of the protest on Wednesday night. He said his initial instinct was to avoid inflaming the situation by risking a confrontation with people angry about the video.

He also said he had underestimated the aggression of the protesters. But he criticized the small number of guards inside the mission for shooting back in self-defense, saying their response probably further provoked the attackers.
 
Last edited:
Demonstrators gathered at the facility? LOLZ! Funny stuff. You know there were none, right?

None that preceded the assault. But the article never claims that (it says both armed and unarmed people overran the compound), and also says that the armed fighters who participated in the assault were interviewed during the events of that night, and they specifically mentioned the video.

EDIT: And note where Libya's deputy defense minister said he pulled back security forces during the initial stages of the attack because he did not want to risk a confrontation with people angry about the video.

You never answered my question. :(

That's because it's irrelevant and misleading. What does the later New York Times report have to do with what was reported on September 12, 2012?
 
Last edited:
EDIT: And note where Libya's deputy defense minister said he pulled back security forces during the initial stages of the attack because he did not want to risk a confrontation with people angry about the video.



That's because it's irrelevant and misleading. What does the later New York Times report have to do with what was reported on September 12, 2012?

The contradictory and defensive-sounding statements are irrelevant and misleading because they are nonsense. The "security forces" scattered as soon as the jihadists showed up. C'mon man, this is the easy stuff!

The Ben Rhodes talking points and the cover up are the hard ones!

Yes No?
 
The contradictory and defensive-sounding statements are irrelevant and misleading because they are nonsense. The "security forces" scattered as soon as the jihadists showed up. C'mon man, this is the easy stuff!

The Ben Rhodes talking points and the cover up are the hard ones!

Yes No?

Unless Ben Rhodes managed to get the Libyan deputy defense minister and all those armed jihadis interviewed as the attacks were taking place in on the cover up, then there was no cover up.
 
Unless Ben Rhodes managed to get the Libyan deputy defense minister and all those armed jihadis interviewed as the attacks were taking place in on the cover up, then there was no cover up.

Uh... unless "the Libyan deputy defense minister and all those armed jihadis" with held the Rhodes e-mail from Congress, there sure as hell was.
 
Uh... unless "the Libyan deputy defense minister and all those armed jihadis" with held the Rhodes e-mail from Congress, there sure as hell was.

Since the Rhodes email has nothing to do with a cover up, I literally have no idea what you're talking about.
 
You know, I've read this whole thread, and I've read article or two about the Benghazi attack, but I still have no clue what the scandal is supposed to be. All I see is some vague insinuations of wrongdoing with no concrete details that make any sense to me. I'll have to admit that I don't know a damn thing about it, but neither does anybody that I've heard making accusations as far as I can tell.

It seems to me to be some sort of a rallying cry or slogan, rather than having anything to do with what actually happened.
 
Last edited:
You know, I've read this whole thread, and I've read article or two about the Benghazi attack, but I still have no clue what the scandal is supposed to be. All I see is some vague insinuations of wrongdoing with no concrete details that make any sense to me.

That's pretty much all there is to it: the GOP really trying hard to make a mountain out of a molehill.
 
You know, I've read this whole thread, and I've read article or two about the Benghazi attack, but I still have no clue what the scandal is supposed to be. All I see is some vague insinuations of wrongdoing with no concrete details that make any sense to me.

There are two things which the Obama administration is being criticized for with respect to the Benghazi attack. The first, and the one about which the GOP focuses most of their outrage, regards the very first statement the government made to the media in the hours following the attack, which suggested that the attack was the result of a out-of-control popular demonstration over an anti-Islam YouTube video some American had made that had recently been publicized. A couple of days later, the government dropped that suggestion and openly stated that it had been a planned terrorist attack. However, the GOP considers that the fact the suggestion was ever made, even for a short time and regardless of the rapid correction, to be evidence of an intent to cover up rather than confront a terrorist act against the US.

The second thing, which is a genuine matter of concern but tends to play merely second fiddle to the outrage surrounding the above issue, is that there was evidence of an escalating threat against the consulate for some time prior to the attack, but the government did not allocate more security forces to that area in a timely fashion.
 
A recent Benghazi thread has been merged into this one. Please do not start new threads when a moderated topic exists. This is considered flooding and may easily earn further moderator action. Thank you.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader
 
There are two things which the Obama administration is being criticized for with respect to the Benghazi attack. The first, and the one about which the GOP focuses most of their outrage, regards the very first statement the government made to the media in the hours following the attack, which suggested that the attack was the result of a out-of-control popular demonstration over an anti-Islam YouTube video some American had made that had recently been publicized. A couple of days later, the government dropped that suggestion and openly stated that it had been a planned terrorist attack. However, the GOP considers that the fact the suggestion was ever made, even for a short time and regardless of the rapid correction, to be evidence of an intent to cover up rather than confront a terrorist act against the US.

The second thing, which is a genuine matter of concern but tends to play merely second fiddle to the outrage surrounding the above issue, is that there was evidence of an escalating threat against the consulate for some time prior to the attack, but the government did not allocate more security forces to that area in a timely fashion.

The biggest thing the GOP seems to be mad about is that the administration changed their story when more accurate information came to light. Everyone knows that when evidence surfaces to contradict your former position, you need to SAY IT AGAIN, ONLY LOUDER!
 
There are two things which the Obama administration is being criticized for with respect to the Benghazi attack. The first, and the one about which the GOP focuses most of their outrage, regards the very first statement the government made to the media in the hours following the attack, which suggested that the attack was the result of a out-of-control popular demonstration over an anti-Islam YouTube video some American had made that had recently been publicized. A couple of days later, the government dropped that suggestion and openly stated that it had been a planned terrorist attack. However, the GOP considers that the fact the suggestion was ever made, even for a short time and regardless of the rapid correction, to be evidence of an intent to cover up rather than confront a terrorist act against the US.
.

That is completely wrong. With all due respect, I cannot fathom where you came up with that. The story was not told for a short time, there was no rapid correction and the administration has intentionally with held evidence regarding its position in the face of numerous requests from Congress and the Administration's assurances that the documents were provided.

I mean we just spent a significant amount of time talking about Rice's statements which took place 5 days after the attack, stating a position that Obama was still repeating on the View two weeks later, and which was not officially dropped until October 9.
 
There are two things which the Obama administration is being criticized for with respect to the Benghazi attack. The first, and the one about which the GOP focuses most of their outrage, regards the very first statement the government made to the media in the hours following the attack, which suggested that the attack was the result of a out-of-control popular demonstration over an anti-Islam YouTube video some American had made that had recently been publicized. A couple of days later, the government dropped that suggestion and openly stated that it had been a planned terrorist attack. However, the GOP considers that the fact the suggestion was ever made, even for a short time and regardless of the rapid correction, to be evidence of an intent to cover up rather than confront a terrorist act against the US.

The second thing, which is a genuine matter of concern but tends to play merely second fiddle to the outrage surrounding the above issue, is that there was evidence of an escalating threat against the consulate for some time prior to the attack, but the government did not allocate more security forces to that area in a timely fashion.


There are a lot of other matters of concern. To wit:

1) the military response, or lack thereof;
2) the lack of transparency concerning decisions the President and the Sec of State made or didn't make the evening of Sep 11, 2012;
3) the failure to hold anybody accountable for quite obvious (and admitted) errors in security planning;
4) the alleged punishment of whistleblowers;
5) the failure to cooperate meaningfully with a congressional investigation;
6) the unseemly pandering to the Muslim world about a stupid video, and the suspicious jailing of the video's producer;
7) the equivocation from the President and his top spokespeople about the whole matter in the lead up to an election;
8) the mainstream press, which appeared to many (me included) to have assumed the role of administration defender rather than antagonist.

That's just off the top of my head. I'll note that Watergate started out as a minor break-in by some low-level flunkies that President Nixon knew nothing about. The administration only committed serious crimes in trying to cover up the original embarrassment, and it was only by dint of dogged investigation by the press and aggressive, bipartisan oversight by Congress that those crimes were uncovered. I don't know if such crimes have been committed to hide the truth here, but I do know the probability of rooting out the truth is close to zero without the cooperation of the press and both parties in Congress.

Benghazi is a serious issue, and I believe it rises to the level of a scandal in a number of ways. Ultimately, though, I think the truth is it was simply an embarrassing episode of fecklessness, incompetence, and indifference, made more egregious by the administration's ruthless political calculation to stonewall. The lapdog press is in part to blame, since it has consistently acted as an enabler for this administration. There is little doubt in my mind that if Benghazi had happened under a Republican administration (which could easily have happened), there would have been far more serious repercussions, and the episode would more widely be viewed as a scandal.
 
That is completely wrong. With all due respect, I cannot fathom where you came up with that. The story was not told for a short time, there was no rapid correction and the administration has intentionally with held evidence regarding its position in the face of numerous requests from Congress and the Administration's assurances that the documents were provided.

It certainly doesn't sound like it was very complicated to acquire the controversial documents. Didn't the individuals that acquired the information just submit a FoIA request? Had anyone tried that before? Is it now your position that the government actively concealed that document just to later release it through a mundane and common request?

I mean we just spent a significant amount of time talking about Rice's statements which took place 5 days after the attack, stating a position that Obama was still repeating on the View two weeks later, and which was not officially dropped until October 9.

The only reason "we" are discussing it is because the GOP side won't drop it, and they consider every possible change or fault to be a massive cover up. This fits under the blanket of every other conspiracy theory. The government is both massively incompetent and extremely intelligent at the same time.
 
Even Republicans are getting tired of Issa's hyperpartisan dog-and-pony show over the non-scandal that is Benghazi.

Buck McKeon disses Darrell Issa over Benghazi witness

Republican Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon is slamming the testimony of a key Benghazi witness before the committee of Republican Oversight Chair Darrell Issa.

It’s a rare rebuke of Issa from a member of his own party and exposes a rift, even if small, over conservatives’ prosecution of Benghazi, the alleged cover-up of which they believe is a winning issue for them in the 2014 elections.

McKeon (R-Calif.) called Brig. Gen. Robert Lovell an unreliable witness and criticized Lovell’s assertion that the State Department was not quick to deploy troops to respond to the 2012 terrorist attack in Libya. Lovell testified Thursday before Issa’s (R-Calif.) oversight panel.

“BG Lovell did not serve in a capacity that gave him reliable insight into operational options available to commanders during the attack, nor did he offer specific courses of action not taken,” McKeon said.

McKeon added, “The Armed Services Committee has interviewed more than a dozen witnesses in the operational chain of command that night, yielding thousands of pages of transcripts, e-mails, and other documents. We have no evidence that Department of State officials delayed the decision to deploy what few resources DoD had available to respond.”

[...]

At the time of the Benghazi attack, Lovell was a deputy director of Defense for intelligence at Africa Command, but said on Thursday he was not in the chain of command that had responsibility for the quickly-unfolding events in Libya.

Ouch.
 
I think that it's quite interesting that the latest "disclosures" about Benghazi have been conclusively demonstrated to be GOP quote fabrications.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/16/republicans-benghazi-emails_n_3289428.html

Appears to be one such citation to this particular GOP sedition.

That huff po piece is a year old, and was proven false shortly thereafter. The Administartion did not allow copying of the emails and thus, there were no copies that could have been altered, let alone visibly altered.

We have explained those seditious lies already in this thread.
 
It certainly doesn't sound like it was very complicated to acquire the controversial documents. Didn't the individuals that acquired the information just submit a FoIA request? Had anyone tried that before? Is it now your position that the government actively concealed that document just to later release it through a mundane and common request?


Oh, sure it wasn't that hard to get. All you had to do was file a FoIA request back in Oct 2012, and then back it up with an expensive lawsuit.


The only reason "we" are discussing it is because the GOP side won't drop it, and they consider every possible change or fault to be a massive cover up. This fits under the blanket of every other conspiracy theory. The government is both massively incompetent and extremely intelligent at the same time.


Nope, we don't need to believe the administration is intelligent. We only need to believe that they're still hiding politically damaging information from the public. Evidence continues to dribble out about their equivocations, which of course should make one suspicious that there's more "there" there. But without the pressure from the mainstream press or a bipartisan congressional investigation, the usually brittle stonewalling has a good chance of holding up.
 
I think that it's quite interesting that the latest "disclosures" about Benghazi have been conclusively demonstrated to be GOP quote fabrications.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/16/republicans-benghazi-emails_n_3289428.html

Appears to be one such citation to this particular GOP sedition.


The discrepancies between the "GOP quotes" and the actual emails resulted from the fact that the Republican investigators were not actually given copies of the emails. They were allowed to see the emails for a brief period and take notes on them, but under the condition that the emails would be returned and not copied verbatim. So the "GOP quotes" were paraphrases. Perhaps some of the paraphrases were unfair, but I doubt it was intentional. It would be kind of stupid if it were, since the administration always had the option of releasing the original version of the email to point out any discrepancies.
 
It certainly doesn't sound like it was very complicated to acquire the controversial documents. Didn't the individuals that acquired the information just submit a FoIA request? Had anyone tried that before? Is it now your position that the government actively concealed that document just to later release it through a mundane and common request?

I am surprised at the profound misinformation contained in this post. Those documents were not voluntarily turned over to a "mundane and common request." As the Judicial Watch Web site notes, the organization filed a FOIA request with the State Department on Oct. 18, 2012 — about a month after the Benghazi attacks — and sued for the records in June 2013. They only turned them over after a judge ORDERED them to.

Several other news organizations filed similar requests and were "ignored."

Judicial Watch decided to fight and force "the most transparent Administration in history" to turn them over, after they were fraudulently buried when the White House released the other talking points emails.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom