Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RandyN]

The reason he was held for four years was one of three fold.... flight risk, reoffending ppossibility, or tampering with evidence. For some reason both ISC and Nencini believe he's none of those.

Hey Bill...

How are the Canadians feeling about the upcoming mayoral election in Toronto? Looks like it might be a bust out win for the up and comer. Not hard to predict or is that hard to predict?

I love current events...

Sorry back on topic...I think RS should be placed instantly in jail. Someone is allowing a twice convicted murderer to run free in Italy. What could they be thinking?

 

[anglolawyer]

Well you have to ignore the semi-print on the blue bath mat then. And you must explain the lack of a bloody drips and yet uncleaned up but clean floor in the bathroom then.

WTH time do you get up? Are the birds awake yet?

There was blood underneath the bathmat. I guess Amanda unwittingly erased the heel part of the one and only bare footprint Rudy made as he withdrew his foot from the bidet (not the shower) and planted it. Unless you think he really thought of leaving the place spic and span except for that bloody foot print and his crap in the toilet? And as part of this plan he obliterated his other footprints made while walking across the towel bridge by imbuing the towels with her blood? And the negative impressions of these bloody footprints are where? IMO he was never bare-footed in the bedroom and forgot to make a bridge when he walked out too.

The birds are just starting up

 

[RandyN]

I was discussing the case with someone on Facebook and she kept telling me C-V had been 'refuted' but could not explain how. I concluded she must have meant 'rejected' because I have not seen any reversal of the findings set out in their report. I have not seen or heard of the evidence that shows they were wrong when they recorded 36B tested negative for blood and humans etc was negative for quantification (contrary to Stef's evidence) not amplified in a way that made sense etc etc etc

I know Conti-Vechiotti are very bad people who were bribed and that she, particularly, felt bitchy towards Stef and so on, but what happened to these facts? Was the Carabinieri's test on 36I in reality a kind of symbolic thing like the priest turning wine into the blood of Our Saviour? Did it mean, 'there! Those sloppy independent experts! We finished their work for them and now they can be consigned to eternal ignominy and damnation. May the priestess Patrizia resume her rightful place on her plinth.'

What happened to the facts?

Ahhh up still and drunk ...OK.

C and V is obviously gone. Nencini says that MK was found on the knife as well as RS and AK. These are the facts in the latest court records as I understand them.

One can make the obvious conclusions from that alone. It doesn't take a Doctor of Rocket Surgery.

 

[anglolawyer]

Ahhh up still and drunk ...OK.

C and V is obviously gone. Nencini says that MK was found on the knife as well as RS and AK. These are the facts in the latest court records as I understand them.

One can make the obvious conclusions from that alone. It doesn't take a Doctor of Rocket Surgery.

explain 'gone'.

 

[carbonjam72]

Monica Napoleone took a report on a Guede break-in?

Cite? I didn't think so.

Meanwhile lets totally discount this guy. "Bartender Christian Tremontano is awaked in the middle of the night by someone in his apartment. He goes downstairs to find Rudy Guede walking through his apartment going through his things. First, Rudy holds a chair up against Christian, then he pulls a knife from his pocket and threatens him. Finally, he flees the scene. Christian reports the break in to police officer, Monica Napoleoni. She asks him to come in to the police station to file an official complaint. Later, when Christian arrives at the police station, the line is too long and he gives up the idea considering he hadn't been injured and nothing had been stolen. He later sees Rudy at two bars. Incredibly, one is the bar where he works as a bartender and he has him thrown out by the bouncer."

Also where is it made clear that Guede only had the one knife in Milan? You are guessing about these things. I can guess too. I say Guede had 5 knives in his possession and since we have no access to the police report I am right and you are wrong! Besides the vehicle hammer has a cutter for seat belts on it too...so that's 6 knives.

And don't start with that apple crisp stuff...do they even grow apples where you live?

Grinder alert! Wooop! Wooop! Woooop!

 

[RandyN]

There was blood underneath the bathmat. I guess Amanda unwittingly erased the heel part of the one and only bare footprint Rudy made as he withdrew his foot from the bidet (not the shower) and planted it. Unless you think he really thought of leaving the place spic and span except for that bloody foot print and his crap in the toilet? And as part of this plan he obliterated his other footprints made while walking across the towel bridge by imbuing the towels with her blood? And the negative impressions of these bloody footprints are where? IMO he was never bare-footed in the bedroom and forgot to make a bridge when he walked out too.

The birds are just starting up

So the bathmat shuffle cleaned up the dried blood on the floor? If the pants are dripping blood (no negative imprint ...I agree) so badly as to fill his shoe then where are the watery droplets in the bathroom? There are no swirly clean up marks which would have showed up like a blinding luminol light on the bathroom floor.

The bathroom floor is clean and yet provably has not been cleaned. More floating murderers I guess...well it was the day after Halloween after all. Imagine what would have happened if the roommates had not had the dinner delaying the satanic ritual for just the one day until the next day...day of the dead...........boo.

 

[RandyN]

explain 'gone'.

It has to be gone. How else can Nencini find that the double DNA... opps now its the triple DNA knife apparently...is a fact? Its in his motivation. He finds that the knife contains evidence of MK and RS and AK.

Thems the facts Jack!

 

[anglolawyer]

So the bathmat shuffle cleaned up the dried blood on the floor? If the pants are dripping blood (no negative imprint ...I agree) so badly as to fill his shoe then where are the watery droplets in the bathroom? There are no swirly clean up marks which would have showed up like a blinding luminol light on the bathroom floor.

The bathroom floor is clean and yet provably has not been cleaned. More floating murderers I guess...well it was the day after Halloween after all. Imagine what would have happened if the roommates had not had the dinner delaying the satanic ritual for just the one day until the next day...day of the dead...........boo.

He walked to the bathroom in shoes not yet bloody. Removes a shoe and sock. Plants foot in bidet. Washes blood off jeans. Planted foot acquires small amount of diluted blood most of which he transfers to the mat.

Are you saying the floor of the bathroom showed up nothing to luminol? That seems very unlikely. It implies a 100% transfer of all blood to the underside of the bathmat. So he punctiliously ensured there were no prints leading to the bathroom but nonetheless planted his footprint on the bathmat? Why not obscure that in Meredith's blood too or take it away and toss it in the trash?

 

[Samson]

The reason he was held for four years was one of three fold.... flight risk, reoffending ppossibility, or tampering with evidence. For some reason both ISC and Nencini believe he's none of those.

Will Raffaele ever spend another night in jail?
In a snap poll I would vote no. I just think there is something I am missing which confounds me. On the other hand they seem to genuinely believe he did something wicked on three other web sites.
I am flummoxed.

 

[RandyN]

Grinder alert! Wooop! Wooop! Woooop!

Take it up with the AK and RS wiki site...here is the cite... See what I did there?

Under the date 27 Sept 2007.

http://amanda-knox.wikispaces.com/Rudy+Guede


Full disclosure...I am not a member there. I have no time to research who operates or owns this wiki. For all I know it may be Dr Mull or AK ans RS or God (that crazy guy in Toronto)

It is not the first time I have heard about the bartender speaking to Nipolini though...maybe she dances there part time?

 

[Poppy1016]

No it was the son we never hear about.

Also... Jason Simpson killed Nicole and Ron...he was wearing OJ's Bruno Maglis. Semi employed chef with a whole set of razor sharp knives in his Jeep as he moved from job to job.

Well, if not John, then the son. I tend to agree about OJ's son too.

 

[GWCarver]

John Ramsey did it.

John Douglas disagrees in two of his books. There is no evidence John Ramsey had anything to do with her murder, IMO. I spent far more time on that case than this one, probably because it is an actual mystery. I dropped out of the discussion years ago when it became clear it was a DNA case, although the guilters will probably still tell you (erroneously) the DNA came from a Chinese panty packer.

 

[RandyN]

He walked to the bathroom in shoes not yet bloody. Removes a shoe and sock. Plants foot in bidet. Washes blood off jeans. Planted foot acquires small amount of diluted blood most of which he transfers to the mat.

Are you saying the floor of the bathroom showed up nothing to luminol? That seems very unlikely. It implies a 100% transfer of all blood to the underside of the bathmat. So he punctiliously ensured there were no prints leading to the bathroom but nonetheless planted his footprint on the bathmat? Why not obscure that in Meredith's blood too or take it away and toss it in the trash?

I don't have any luminol data from the bathroom. Which tells me that it was closely checked and nothing was found or else we would have been bombarded.

OK...so the one sided shoe prints leaving towards the door are unrelated to the soaking pants in the bathroom then?

Because they have to be unrelated or else how did he get cleanly back into the bedroom? Or did he leave straight from the bidet job wash off and out towards the door?

Possible I suppose and then after the blood is worn off he could travel back and forth any unknown number of times.

Why leave the mat? He didn't notice it was bloody...hes an idiot...he was scared witless? He thought he heard something?

The aspirated blood indicates a rather loud and horrible sounding death... even thought it may well have been something happening while Miss Kercher was unconscious. Coughing and breathing or attempting to does not require any conscious action.

Scary horrible sounding noises. A relative amateur killer would be frightened witless. And recall his testimony about all that dreadful red that he can never forget.

I bet.

 

[GWCarver]

No it was the son we never hear about.

Also... Jason Simpson killed Nicole and Ron...he was wearing OJ's Bruno Maglis. Semi employed chef with a whole set of razor sharp knives in his Jeep as he moved from job to job.

You're kidding, right? Burke was a little boy.

 

[Bill Williams]

Hey Bill...

How are the Canadians feeling about the upcoming mayoral election in Toronto? Looks like it might be a bust out win for the up and comer. Not hard to predict or is that hard to predict?

I love current events...

Sorry back on topic...I think RS should be placed instantly in jail. Someone is allowing a twice convicted murderer to run free in Italy. What could they be thinking?

You're closer to Toronto than me.

In the Maritimes of Canada, politics is family. In Quebec it's a religion. In Ontario it's business, cold numbers. On the Prairies it's a social cause. In British Columbia it's pure entertainment.

 

[Samson]

Manson also regularly refuses to attend his own appeals to the court.

Stilicho posted this on PMF. Since he is a member here, I for one would be interested for him to elaborate on the parallels between Charles Manson and Amanda Knox, and their respective criminal histories, and to what degree of certainty they are proven or unproven.

 

[codyjuneau]

Works for me...although I still think it is more than possible that he thought he would sell the phones...and just thought better of it as he headed home. I always thought that Rudy avoided the streets as much as possible and headed down through the ravine and then back up through Parco San Angelo just outside the city walls near his flat. There is a gate opening less than about 50 yards from Rudy's front door but they lock the gate at 10:00 PM. My guess is headed for that gate, but got there late and then headed Northwest along the wall to the Via Sperandio street entrance through the city wall. The phone rang and thought better of keeping the phones and he tossed the phones across the embankment into Lana's Garden.

.
Absolutely, either reason, or both, for taking the phones works for me too AC.

As for his actions after leaving the cottage, another possibility is that Rudy went back to his place through the unlocked city gate with everything before 10 pm. Later, after 10 pm, he decided to get rid of the phones, so he went out the city wall passageway and chucked them into Lana's yard. He must have known the area and that he was chucking them into the yard of a residence. There might have been an extra purpose to this, or not. I would sure like to know which phone number made that bomb threat phone call to Lana's house 'around 10 pm' and when exactly it was made. Maybe it will show up with the missing DNA files one day.
.

 

[Planigale]

I was discussing the case with someone on Facebook and she kept telling me C-V had been 'refuted' but could not explain how. I concluded she must have meant 'rejected' because I have not seen any reversal of the findings set out in their report. I have not seen or heard of the evidence that shows they were wrong when they recorded 36B tested negative for blood and humans etc was negative for quantification (contrary to Stef's evidence) not amplified in a way that made sense etc etc etc

I know Conti-Vechiotti are very bad people who were bribed and that she, particularly, felt bitchy towards Stef and so on, but what happened to these facts? Was the Carabinieri's test on 36I in reality a kind of symbolic thing like the priest turning wine into the blood of Our Saviour? Did it mean, 'there! Those sloppy independent experts! We finished their work for them and now they can be consigned to eternal ignominy and damnation. May the priestess Patrizia resume her rightful place on her plinth.'

What happened to the facts?

There are so many facts that are ignored. The ballistics expert for the defence carried out a series of experiments showing that the glass deposition in Filomena's room could only have arisen from a stone thrown from outside. But the judges appear to prefer their own opinion (or I suppose that of the prosecution) that the stone was too big to be thrown through the window (although the experiments were carried out by throwing a similar sized rock), and that the outside shutters which were part closed when photographed must have been in the same position unless the defence prove otherwise, and if the shutters are part closed the stone could not be thrown through the window. Therefore the glass deposition must be a consequence of staging by the defendants. The only person with an interest in staging is ….. Knox.

So one could argue the whole case rests on the position of the outer shutter, and whether that might have moved. FWIW if I was a burglar and had broken in through that window I would have pulled the outer shutter closed after me to conceal the broken window from passers by.

 

[codyjuneau]

There are so many facts that are ignored. The ballistics expert for the defence carried out a series of experiments showing that the glass deposition in Filomena's room could only have arisen from a stone thrown from outside. But the judges appear to prefer their own opinion (or I suppose that of the prosecution) that the stone was too big to be thrown through the window (although the experiments were carried out by throwing a similar sized rock), and that the outside shutters which were part closed when photographed must have been in the same position unless the defence prove otherwise, and if the shutters are part closed the stone could not be thrown through the window. Therefore the glass deposition must be a consequence of staging by the defendants. The only person with an interest in staging is ….. Knox.

So one could argue the whole case rests on the position of the outer shutter, and whether that might have moved. FWIW if I was a burglar and had broken in through that window I would have pulled the outer shutter closed after me to conceal the broken window from passers by.

.
Of course, it is obvious. Are Perugian police really not able to figure that out on their own?
.

 

[Planigale]

So the bathmat shuffle cleaned up the dried blood on the floor? If the pants are dripping blood (no negative imprint ...I agree) so badly as to fill his shoe then where are the watery droplets in the bathroom? There are no swirly clean up marks which would have showed up like a blinding luminol light on the bathroom floor.

The bathroom floor is clean and yet provably has not been cleaned. More floating murderers I guess...well it was the day after Halloween after all. Imagine what would have happened if the roommates had not had the dinner delaying the satanic ritual for just the one day until the next day...day of the dead...........boo.

It is not entirely clear that Luminol was used in the (Knox/Kercher) bathroom. The famous bathroom pictures show a red sprayed bathroom probably due to a phenolphthalein test, it would seem likely that this was used rather than Luminol. I think Luminol was used in the large bathroom.