Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Scorpion]

The medium who knew about your dead baby brother might have got that information in a conversation with a friend of your mother of which they had no conscious memory, and genuinely believed it came from the beyond.

As I have said the medium was a stranger from out of town, and my mother was not a spiritualist, and had never been to the church. Added to that my mother did not speak of the baby, she was too embarrassed to discuss it and had never told me.

 

[Pixel42]

As I have said the medium was a stranger from out of town

And had never visited the town before? Never struck up a conversation with anyone outside the church during this or any previous visit? There are many ways this medium could have obtained this information without being deliberately duplicitous (and several more if they were, of course).

Added to that my mother did not speak of the baby, she was too embarrassed to discuss it and had never told me.

I have to say this makes no sense to me at all. What's embarrassing about having lost a child in very sad circumstances? And even if she didn't talk about it there must have been other people who knew her at the time and hence were aware of her loss, the staff at the hospital etc. There could also have been a newspaper death notice or a parish record which the medium could have looked up after obtaining the names of those who were likely to attend - and yes, the scumbag fakes really do stoop to that sort of thing.

 

[turingtest]

And had never visited the town before? Never struck up a conversation with anyone outside the church during this or any previous visit? There are many ways this medium could have obtained this information without being deliberately duplicitous (and several more if they were, of course).


I have to say this makes no sense to me at all. What's embarrassing about having lost a child in very sad circumstances? And even if she didn't talk about it there must have been other people who knew her at the time and hence were aware of her loss, the staff at the hospital etc. There could also have been a newspaper death notice or a parish record which the medium could have looked up after obtaining the names of those who were likely to attend - and yes, the scumbag fakes really do stoop to that sort of thing.

The Spiritualists, by Ruth Brandon, says this (of circa-1850's mediums):

The physical phenomena, so called, presented relatively little difficulty...More demanding were what soon came to be known as "tests," where the medium told the sitter about various relatives and acquaintances, living and (especially) dead. Once again, there were a number of recognized methods in use. Some were very down-to-earth. When a medium visited a new town, he was advised to visit the local cemetery and make a note of names, dates, and any other information to be obtained from the tombstones. He might also consult the "Blue Book" for the area, a compilation circulated among mediums listing, for an increasing number of places, the names of leading spiritualists likely to attend seances, with descriptions, family histories, and details (deceased spouses, children, parents, etc.) and other information likely to be of use.

(There is an appendix, "The Machine In the Ghost," which goes into more detail about the "Blue Books," including an excerpt from one by a confessed user of it.)

And all this is, as I said, about mid-19th century spiritualism; in this day and age of Internet information saturation, trips to the local graveyards probably aren't even necessary anymore. Scorpion's mother might have kept his brother's death a secret from him (Scorpion), but that doesn't make it a secret to everybody.

 

[Pixel42]

The local cemetery, of course! I should have thought of that. A veritable mine of information, so to speak.

 

[Scorpion]

Alrighty then, I have had many other messages that were accurate.
I posted details about one recently. The medium at a church service came to me with a message, and she said I had recently done a blue and white painting. She said the spirit world had inspired me to do it, but that I did not think much of it.

First I do not think I talked about the painting to anyone so how could she know, and secondly she knew I did not think much of it. This indicates that the spirit world knew what I was thinking by telepathy.

 

[Donn]

Blue and white paint on your hands, or on your clothes? When I was in art-school, you could tell when I was doing pastel or charcoal or acrylic, just from the state of my clothes and the errant dabs of colour upon my person.

 

[I Ratant]

Blue and white paint on your hands, or on your clothes? When I was in art-school, you could tell when I was doing pastel or charcoal or acrylic, just from the state of my clothes and the errant dabs of colour upon my person.

.
Threw yourself into your hobby.
That's good.

 

[Scorpion]

I have just remembered another evidential message I had. This one was when I was at art college on a low allowance. The medium said I did not have much money but I would have more if I did not spend it all on records, she even said I purchased the big ones, not the small ones. Those were the terms she used, but I knew she was talking about LP records and not singles. The message was totally accurate and factual about what I did, because I spent most of my money on albums at that time.

 

[Pixel42]

These sort of anecdotes are not evidence for genuine mediumship because, even if we assume they are being accurately recalled, there will always be more plausible explanations for them than that the medium received the information from the dead.

If it really was possible to receive information from the dead it would be very easy for a genuine medium to produce objective evidence. As long as the very few with the integrity to put their supposed ability to the test fail (and they always have so far) the null hypothesis - that those more plausible explanations are the correct ones - stands.

 

[ComfySlippers]

I have just remembered another evidential message I had. This one was when I was at art college on a low allowance. The medium said I did not have much money but I would have more if I did not spend it all on records, she even said I purchased the big ones, not the small ones. Those were the terms she used, but I knew she was talking about LP records and not singles. The message was totally accurate and factual about what I did, because I spent most of my money on albums at that time.

That has to be the worse one yet.
If this is evidence then the gullibility rating just increased ten-fold.

 

[Joey McGee]

To the best of my recollection the medium said the following. " I have got your brother here" I said "No"

Aha! So when you said no the medium probably invented a likely story that would explain why you had a brother that died that you didn't know about... happened to be true, happened to guess a name. Why couldn't she provide the last name or give you the date? or a story that didn't happen to countless people at the time?

He was studying to develop his intellect and he advised me to do the same, rather than allowing my head to be ruled by emotion. Which was an accurate reading of my personality.

That's an accurate reading of everyone's personality!

The medium at a church service came to me with a message, and she said I had recently done a blue and white painting. She said the spirit world had inspired me to do it, but that I did not think much of it.

First I do not think I talked about the painting to anyone so how could she know, and secondly she knew I did not think much of it. This indicates that the spirit world knew what I was thinking by telepathy.

You don't really know what you told who what when, most beginner painters do not think much of their work, all they would have to do know that you were an artist, and guessed one of your paintings included the colors blue and white, pretty common theme! How many people knew you were in art college? Did you look exactly like an art student of the day?

I have just remembered another evidential message I had. This one was when I was at art college on a low allowance. The medium said I did not have much money but I would have more if I did not spend it all on records, she even said I purchased the big ones, not the small ones. Those were the terms she used, but I knew she was talking about LP records and not singles. The message was totally accurate and factual about what I did, because I spent most of my money on albums at that time.

Oh man like pretty much all the hippie art college students did at that time?

Here's what a real spirit message would be. I have your brother here, Ivan Bradley Cleavely born Sept 17 1955, he died from a lack of oxygen tents in the war, your mother's name is Jackie. That would be impressive.

It's clear enough for them to see his face and that he looks like you, it's clear enough to get a first name, it is beyond belief that there is no last name, or further details...

 

[Daylightstar]

I have just remembered another evidential message I had. This one was when I was at art college on a low allowance. The medium said I did not have much money but I would have more if I did not spend it all on records, she even said I purchased the big ones, not the small ones. Those were the terms she used, but I knew she was talking about LP records and not singles. The message was totally accurate and factual about what I did, because I spent most of my money on albums at that time.

What do you hope to communicate with such anecdotes?

 

[The Shrike]

You're in "art college" in the 1970s (?) and a so-called medium predicted that you had recently done a painting you weren't happy with and that you were blowing all your limited funds on LPs? Just back up for a second and imagine having a conversation with that younger you, back in that time and in that scene: Couldn't anyone have "predicted" such things about you?

 

[The Shrike]

To the best of my recollection the medium said the following.
" I have got your brother here" I said "No" The medium said "well he looks exactly like you".

Shouldn't she have been looking at a baby when she "saw" your brother? Did you at that time look like a baby?

 

[dlorde]

And these mediums remember stuff on people they arent even dealing with on a daily basis? They can catalog in their mind certain key things about hundreds or `tens of thousands` ^^(from a post above) of people?
Or does this entire ruse require the medium to work in tandem with another person in the back room, who upon hearing say the name of the sitter, relays info to the medium via an ear piece?

Silly boy - details can be recorded in many ways. Did you not read Joey McGee's post earlier in the thread?

 

[dlorde]

Just how many people in a spiritualist church do you think are conspirators?
The organisers and all the mediums must be in on it, and that is not my experience.

I'm sure most of them don't see it as a conspiracy, but as a social or hobby club or a small business, depending on their particular view of things.

 

[Ladewig]

You're in "art college" in the 1970s (?) and a so-called medium predicted that you had recently done a painting you weren't happy with and that you were blowing all your limited funds on LPs? Just back up for a second and imagine having a conversation with that younger you, back in that time and in that scene: Couldn't anyone have "predicted" such things about you?

In addition, there is the uselessness of such a revelation. The spirits have the the ability to send messages to those on Earth. These spirits understand that the only purpose of this mortal life is to achieve spiritual enlightenment with the hope of transcending this space-time contiuum and entering a new realm. That is their goal and the best they could do was "spend less money on big records"?

 

[I Ratant]

It wasn't the time for "avoid a land war in Asia".

 

[dlorde]

I had to laugh a couple? days ago, a poster here aluded to the fact your memory might not be accurate, and said that your story regarding how your baby brother died in the war...........
Well, the reason i laughed is HIS memory was (also?)faulty, because you said you had a brother that died in the war as a baby(right?...i think).

Not only does your memory seem faulty here, but also your ability to express yourself coherently...

Perhaps you'd like to clarify what you think the problem was, and support it with quotes or links to the posts you think you remember?

 

[dlorde]

That has to be the worse one yet.
If this is evidence then the gullibility rating just increased ten-fold.

To be fair, if you're young and/or relatively naive and unaware of Barnum statements, cold-reading and such, this kind of thing can seem very impressive.