* * * International Skeptics Forum Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Psychics and Missing People Started at 14th February 2006 12:46 AM by Kelly Visit at https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56148 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Kelly Date : 14th February 2006 12:46 AM Thread Title : Psychics and Missing People
Introduction by moderator Luke T.: There are thousands upon thousands of people in our society for whom normal life has been extinguished. A son, a daughter, a mother, a father, a wife, or a husband, has disappeared without a trace. Every day is one of anguish, every night sleepless. For anyone not in it, we cannot even begin to imagine this never-ending nightmare. But for those who are living it, the despondence is such that one finds one would do anything to have their missing loved one back. A resolution. Who would dare take advantage of these people? What low character would rush into this nightmare and stir up confusion, mislead the police in their search, extort money, and feast upon the families of missing people? Part of what the James Randi Education Foundation is about is re-examining our pre-conceived notions. When you travel through the topic below, any pre-conceived notions you might have about psychics providing hope and good feelings, or being just harmless fun, are going to be re-examined by the mother of a missing child who somehow found the strength to rise from her despair and throw off this second wave of predators, and carry her warning to other victims and to bring attention of this continuing victimization to the rest of us. Link to original topic: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52101 Link to blog series which resulted from this topic: http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/30606-pmp-introduction-to-psychics-and.html edited to add: You may notice in this topic that some comments are addressed to a poster "WanderinWTF", but that there are no posts by that user in this topic. That is because some posts were edited out of the original topic and placed in a separate topic. You can see those posts here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52689
Hello all, I am the mother of a missing person and the founder of a nonprofit which assists families of the missing in the US. In my position(s), it seems like I am a magnet for all sorts of loonies claiming they want to help either solve my son's case, or solve cases of the families we serve. Frankly, I tire of it all. The last few that came to me with their offers were told by me (in as nice of a way as I could) that when they could pass Randi's test to come back. Of course, I didn't hear anything back from them in response. Some of the "believers" try to play on guilt in that they say people in my position should try any (legal) means possible to find their missing loved one. It is subtlely implied that if I am not willing to subject myself to this, then I must not really care about finding my son. It is a chance I should always take, I am told. A relative paid one of these charlatans to do a "reading" with me, despite my objections. I agreed, but said I would never do it again. She paid the woman the "discounted" fee of $50, which was to include a tape of the entire ordeal. (We never did get the tape.) At that time, I had already been reading about their methods, and I refused to give her any info and play into her game. She had the audacity to then convince my mother that I "ruined" the reading because of my attitude. (I was polite to the woman. I just did not react to her probes.) As typical, when she claimed to be speaking to my son's spirit, she could not get the "spirit" to answer a simple question about one of his likes, which I then posed. After that, she started to get annoyed with me. I have plenty of stories about these people and my own experiences with them, plus experiences of other family members of the missing. I also know behind the scenes stories about Sylvia Browne and her scamming. And, as you might expect, none of these person's case have been solved by these people. What I want to be able to accomplish by posting here, is to have a very complete collection of links debunking the advantage takers when it comes to missing person's cases. I do have a few, such as the Carla Baron exposee and several others which are linked to this site. Another thing which would be helpful and would probably require someone with a pyschiatry background, is to find a way to help these families who feel pressured to use psychics, to not feel guilty about refusing these offers. And finally, I would love to find someone who is fairly well known in the debunking area, especially when it comes to missing person's cases, to do an interview for the blog I write. Thank you. Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski President and Founder, Project Jason -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : LostAngeles Date : 14th February 2006 01:15 AM I don't know if you've visited the Skeptic's Dictionary, but I find it's a good place to start. Not only is there a ton of information (that I will get through someday), but they list further resources along with cites. Here's their entry on psychic detectives: http://skepdic.com/psychdet.html The Skeptic's Society has a letter to ABC news "Exposing the Errors of ABC’s Primetime Thursday" http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/archives/2004/04-05-04.html Here's a CSICOP article: http://www.csicop.org/si/2005-07/i-files.html A video: http://www.csicop.org/articles/psychic-detectives/index.html Another two articles: http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/psychic-sleuthing.html & http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/police-psychics.html I can run a few database searches too, if you'd like, but they won't provide links. At best, I'd probably just be doing some research for you, but if you'd like, let me know. And thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Darat Date : 14th February 2006 01:27 AM Link to Project Jason homepage: http://www.projectjason.org/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Kelly Date : 14th February 2006 06:43 AM Thank you. Yes, I am quite sure I have visited the Skeptic's Dictionary a few times. Perhaps that's where I learned about some of the methodology. I would greatly appreciate any research that can be done with locating stories where these people were debunked in missing person's cases. I work full time and run the org full time, so I can use the help. I will be writing a series about this on my blog in the future which will incorporate this info along with family stories, and hopefully, some commentary from experts. I have seen far too many families hurt by this. One woman I know literally almost drove herself crazy following every "lead" on the weekends, traveling hundreds of milies for nothing. Desperation makes a person lose sight of reality. The desire to end what I call the waking nightmare, the "not knowing" takes people where they normally may not have gone. But then again, nothing is normal when you live this life. Thanks, Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Tricky Date : 14th February 2006 07:20 AM That's horrible news, Kelly. I wish you all the best that science and the police can provide, and I hope your family doesn't continue to be harassed by phony psychics. Please keep us posted on the investigation. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Luke T. Date : 14th February 2006 07:30 AM Welcome to the forum, Kelly. It seems to me that you are the best source for the kind of shenanigans these "psychic detectives" pull. Perhaps you could post a collection of the kind of solicitations you get from them. After all, these psychics claim it is the families who come to them, not vice versa. And they all like to claim they are working on missing persons cases. Anything you could do here to bring the real truth to light would be great. Do you remember the Elizabeth Smart case? Well, there was a remote viewer organization that stuck their nose in the case, and within days of her disappearance declared her dead. And then they posted all kinds of remote viewer drawings on their site which depicted where she had been buried. They even made strong insinuations of who might be guilty of her death. You can imagine their embarassment when Elizabeth turned up alive. Well, some of us here at JREF managed to download all of their public proclamations, photos and drawings, and everything else they published about the Smart case right before they went into damage control mode and removed all that material from their web site. Subsequently, Claus Larsen wrote an article about the whole debacle on his Skeptic Report web site, which you can read by clicking here. (http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/psitechsmart.htm) Also, Kelly, once a year the James Randi Educational Foundation has what is called The Amazing Meeting. At these conferences, hundreds of people attend to listen to a few days worth of lectures and presentations by skeptics from various walks of life. It sounds to me like your experience with psychic detectives might be a terrific showcase presentation. If it isn't too much to ask, would you mind telling us of the circumstances of your son's disappearance and what has developed in the case? edited to add: Never mind. I see Darat posted a link to your site. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : LostAngeles Date : 14th February 2006 09:26 AM Thank you. Yes, I am quite sure I have visited the Skeptic's Dictionary a few times. Perhaps that's where I learned about some of the methodology. I would greatly appreciate any research that can be done with locating stories where these people were debunked in missing person's cases. I work full time and run the org full time, so I can use the help. I will be writing a series about this on my blog in the future which will incorporate this info along with family stories, and hopefully, some commentary from experts. I have seen far too many families hurt by this. One woman I know literally almost drove herself crazy following every "lead" on the weekends, traveling hundreds of milies for nothing. Desperation makes a person lose sight of reality. The desire to end what I call the waking nightmare, the "not knowing" takes people where they normally may not have gone. But then again, nothing is normal when you live this life. Thanks, Kelly I'll try and get back to you tomorrow then or later tonight. They added a database of science journals this semester so I'm expecting the best results to come from that and not necessarily from news reports. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : LeCynthia Date : 14th February 2006 09:49 AM As a person close to a missing person case that's also gone unsolved I can relate, however I wasn't immediate family so I was not the one the psychics came to visit. My uncle would tell the psychics if they can go out and find her then by all means, go ahead, just don't expect to get any money for it. He would politely tell them he didn't believe psychics had any ability so if they wanted to prove him wrong, go ahead. If money or reward was mentioned he would kindly direct them to ask all future questions to the detective in charge of the investigation. I think you'll find many, many supporters here, if you need anything, just ask. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : LordoftheLeftHand Date : 14th February 2006 11:41 AM My own mother paid one of these charlatans to do a "reading" with me, despite my objections. I agreed, but said I would never do it again. She paid the woman the "discounted" fee of $50, which was to include a tape of the entire ordeal. (We never did get the tape.) I'm shocked that a psychic would have the audacity to charge money for their "service" in helping find a missing child. This makes me angry. I don’t want to say anymore. LLH -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : bjb Date : 14th February 2006 11:59 AM I can think of a missing persons case involving Sylvia Browne. About ten years ago, she was on the Montel Williams show, talking about missing persons cases. One case involved that bass player from Iron Butterfly, who had gone missing a year or so earlier. Anyway, Sylvia claimed she saw him being kidnapped and taken aboard a boat. She also said he was probably dead,which seemed very cruel of her to say. A couple of years later, his remains were found: http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,4843,00.html I don't recall any news stories about Sylvia Browne being wrong about this case, but maybe James Randi has better documentation in his files. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Luke T. Date : 14th February 2006 12:02 PM I'm shocked that a psychic would have the audacity to charge money for their "service" in helping find a missing child. This makes me angry. I don’t want to say anymore. LLH A private detective would charge money to look for a missing child. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Kelly Date : 14th February 2006 12:24 PM Thank you for the warm welcome. I will try to respond to the various inquiries. I have a separate website for my son's case, but I cannot post links yet. It's a very baffling case which has eluded veteran LE and a decent pro-bono PI. A websearch on Jason Jolkowski should offer this site as 1st on the list. A websearch on my name should find the blog and numerous other stories. I know quite a few families who went on Montel for the SB segments. She was never right once that we know of. The link for the story posted above about her does not appear to work. LeCynthia, PM me and tell me about your missing family member. Thanks to LostAngeles for the research and help. LukeT: I have never approached a psychic, ever. They have all come to me or come to people who know me. I agree that I would be a good resource for sharing these stories. I have never put them on "pen and paper" but will be working on this in the next few weeks for the blog series. It was always too painful at the time, but I know it is important to help expose these people. I heard about the Smart case and the group who made the "fatal" error. I may have even read the report about it at one point. I would probably not be able to attend the Amazing Meeting. I'm sure it is rather enlightening on many fronts. We're a very small org and can only afford 1-2 annual trips which are educational in nature in respect to our mission statement. On a personal level, I'm a check-to-check working stiff who could not afford to pay for such a trip on my own. Yes, I have many stories about these people. I even tried to pretend to be a gullible person in order to get some "dirt" on one of them, but in the end both LE and the FBI told me that no law was broken unless I had given them money and they had not provided the promised service. I didn't have 25K in between the couch cushions or anywhere else, so that one ended. The last one that came to me was from a person who said they were a "dowser" but yet somehow they could "see" that a missing woman (a case we work) was being held captive in a shed somewhere. Mind you, this woman has been missing since 1986! The "fun" never ends it seems. These people come out of the woodwork when there is a missing person. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Garrette Date : 14th February 2006 12:28 PM KellyJ, I'm very very sorry for your situation and wish you only the best. You come across as the perfect person to take this challenge on. And regarding being unable to afford the TAM trip, I think that can be taken care of. I personally have not been able to make the meetings due to scheduling issues, but every year there is an "Scholarship Fund" to help out worthy people who would attend but cannot because of finances. This year it paid the expenses of quite a few. Mark it on your schedule and keep in touch. The worst case is you end up not going; the likely case is that you do. And if you feel like it, a presentation would not be amiss. Edited to add: I take it you are in touch with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children? They have a statement on psychics never solving a missing child case. They have other resources, too, which you may be interested in. Google NCMEC. Though I'm sure you already know this. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : CurtC Date : 14th February 2006 12:42 PM [COLOR=black] [COLOR=black]I'm shocked that a psychic would have the audacity to charge money for their "service" in helping find a missing child.He didn't say they asked for money, he just said they were told not to expect money. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : tsg Date : 14th February 2006 12:50 PM A private detective would charge money to look for a missing child. A private detective might be able to find a missing child. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : ysabella Date : 14th February 2006 01:19 PM I like this statement (http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-hazards.htm) from the Klaas Kids Foundation - it reads as though Mark Klaas wrote it. He is a high-profile person and more than skeptical, as he was very angry about how one skeptic tried to use his daughter's murder for her own fame, so I wonder if he would give an interview to you sometime? He was featured on a Penn&Teller episode about ESP, also, and his part is the featured clip on the web page for that episode (http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=esp). I wish you all the best and I really would like to applaud your efforts in spreading some debunking in this area. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Kelly Date : 14th February 2006 07:57 PM Marc Klaas...good find. I have never met him personally, but I am friends with his right hand man. Our orgs work together now and then. I am quite sure he would participate. I did not remember that he took this stance. I will have to look at the meeting info and place and see if I could fit it in. How does a person go about getting this scholarship? Thanks to all, Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : CurtC Date : 14th February 2006 09:14 PM The Skeptic's Society has a letter to ABC news "Exposing the Errors of ABC’s Primetime Thursday" http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/archives/2004/04-05-04.htmlI clicked this link, thinking it sounded interesting. Imagine my surprise when I saw that it's my own letter I wrote to ABC! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : LostAngeles Date : 14th February 2006 09:24 PM I clicked this link, thinking it sounded interesting. Imagine my surprise when I saw that it's my own letter I wrote to ABC! No way! Rock on! Kelly, right now, I'm not terribly impressed with the results from this new database. I do have a pdf I got from it with an article about Psychic Detectives (the show) from Skeptic. So far, most of my results are from that and Skeptical Inquirer. I'd like to be able to offer you something a bit more... mainstream, I guess is the word. That way, when people read your post they don't dismiss it out of hand because, "Oh well, they're those bitter skeptics." or whatever. I should have my Lexis-Nexis access back since the semester's started up again, I'll try and hit there tomorrow. If you'd like the cites for the articles for now, though (I'm not sure on the copyright issues here), let me know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Kelly Date : 14th February 2006 11:30 PM That is neat, Curt. No rush on the research, LA. I probably won't start my series for several weeks yet. I'll take the sites, yes. I think no matter how I write my series, there will be plenty of people who take offense to it. ("Oh my precious Sylvia" types) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Godmode Date : 14th February 2006 11:47 PM I certainly hope that if I ever go missing, I don't have to rely on a psychic's guess to rescue me. As far as I know, not a single person has ever been found because of a so-called psychic. When will people learn? I applaud your standing up for what's right during this difficult time, and I truelly do hope you find your missing person alive and well. It is criminal, in my opinion, the way these scammers feed off your pain and profit from (and add to!) your emotional distraught. That is not something anybody needs. Best wishes to you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : DeVega Date : 15th February 2006 07:32 AM Kelly, I am very sorry that you find yourself in such an awful situation and I hope good news comes for you and your family. I think the work you are proposing to pursue with these fraudulant leeches is very important & I wish you every good luck with it. It would be great if you could attend a TAM - I am sure that is just what the scholarships are for & people would love to hear you. Very best wishes -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Luke T. Date : 15th February 2006 08:05 AM A private detective might be able to find a missing child. I'm just saying it isn't out of line for someone who performs a "service" to charge money for it. All that is out of line is promising a service that is useless, and that is plenty enough to warrant scorn. And a psychic who is sought out by a family to search for a missing loved one is marginally better than a psychic who hears of a missing person and then seeks out the family and offers her services. The paranormal equivalent of an "ambulance chaser." Scummiest of the scum. And I am happy to hear the PI on KellyJ's son's case is working pro bono. Good man! Or woman, whatever the case may be. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : Luke T. Date : 15th February 2006 08:12 AM LukeT: I have never approached a psychic, ever. They have all come to me or come to people who know me. I agree that I would be a good resource for sharing these stories. I have never put them on "pen and paper" but will be working on this in the next few weeks for the blog series. It was always too painful at the time, but I know it is important to help expose these people. Yes, it is very important, and you are in a better position to do it than we are. Psychics deflect criticisms by skeptics by claiming they (the psychics) are caring and loving human beings helping others. You are perfectly situated to show that their "help" is not only unwanted, but also that they are nothing more than exploiters of pain and suffering who impose themselves on victims unsolicited when their sales resistance is at its lowest and their desperation highest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : tsg Date : 15th February 2006 10:22 AM I'm just saying it isn't out of line for someone who performs a "service" to charge money for it. All that is out of line is promising a service that is useless, and that is plenty enough to warrant scorn. That's entirely the point. They aren't providing a service, certainly not one worth paying for. I thought it was pretty evident that's what LLH meant. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : Luke T. Date : 15th February 2006 10:40 AM That's entirely the point. They aren't providing a service, certainly not one worth paying for. I thought it was pretty evident that's what LLH meant. Reading back over LLH's comment with a different perspective, I see you are right. I concluded a long time ago that psychics have no shame and that it went without saying. So from that perspective I thought LLH was saying that what was wrong was to charge victims money for anything. I was wrong for thinking the shamelessness of psychics goes without saying. It needs to be said. Over and over and over. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : JLam Date : 15th February 2006 11:09 AM Kelly, I know you mentioned the Carla Baron report, but I'm not sure if you have talked to the folks who wrote it. (For those of you who haven't read the Independent Investigations Group's devastating report on Carla Baron, you can read it here: http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html ) I'm a new member of the IIG, but I wasn't around when they did the Baron report. However, you should get in touch with them. To contact the IIG: (323) 666-9797, ext. 159 or info@iigwest.com I do hope you find you son one day. I can't imagine the pain you're experiencing. And, like others said, mark your calendar for the next TAM (well, as soon as the dates are announced, anyway.) You need to be there, and the members of this board will make sure that someone like you will have anything you can't afford fully covered. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : Mariah Date : 15th February 2006 11:48 AM Hi, Kelly J, and warmest welcome. You've started the best and most productive thread in recent memory. Let's keep it going. To everyone: I was so pleased to discover Mark Klaas' statement on psychic detectives some time ago. And thank you, Lost Angeles, for the list of links including the one to the skeptic dictionary which I repeat here: http://skepdic.com/psychdet.html. Am I dreaming it (well, it would be a nightmare, actually) that John Walsh of America's Most Wanted actually did a show on the psychic detectives? Someone tell me I'm wrong. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : Luke T. Date : 15th February 2006 01:04 PM Am I dreaming it (well, it would be a nightmare, actually) that John Walsh of America's Most Wanted actually did a show on the psychic detectives? Someone tell me I'm wrong. Sorry... Thursday January 1, 2003 RERUN PSYCHIC PHENOMENA: AN INSIDE LOOK Today, we spend a fascinating hour with Dougall Fraser – a 26-year-old clairvoyant who has been a professional psychic for years. Dougall has become recognized as one of the country’s top psychics, assisting people with the loss of loved ones, relationships, prosperity, self-help, and spiritual development. During the hour, Dougall helps our guests find answers, hope, and in some cases, closure in their lives. First, Dougall tells us a little about himself and how he realized at a young age that he had a special “ability.” He then lets our viewers in on some of his celebrity predictions – who’ll stay together, who’ll break up, and who’s going to run for office. He may even have a prediction or two for you! Next, Dougall focuses on the two most popular reasons people come to see him – love and money. Dougall “reads” and advises two guests regarding their love life – Catherine & Kenya. Catherine is here because she is in a serious relationship right now and wonders if her man is “the one,” and Kenya is here because she is searching for the man of her dreams! We also have two guests that Dougall reads and advises regarding money issues – Carly & Rich. Carly is here because she’s been unemployed for several months and wants to know what she’s doing wrong. She says she is curious about the future of her career. Rich is a young actor who has reached a crossroads and is contemplating moving across the country to pursue his passion. He says he wants a hint at whether or not moving will help his career. Our hope is that Dougall delivers each of our guests some news and helpful hints that encourages them to look forward to their future. As you know, psychic shops are on just about every corner here in New York, and the majority of them are fakes. Dougall lets us in on some of these “so-called” psychics’ most commonly used ploys and tactics…and also provides tips on how to stay away from the frauds and find someone who’s legit. We actually went “undercover” before the show and had readings done at two local psychics. We find out just how accurate Dougall is and see just what happened when we sent our “spy cam” into these establishments. Later in the show, Dougall “reads” the audience and also takes specific questions from audience members looking for guidance. Dougall is truly more than the average “psychic” in that he combines his clairvoyant skills with life coaching – so he doesn’t just entertain and make predictions, he helps guide people in taking the right steps to get the results they’re looking for in life. Plus, Jennifer Stockburger, an Automotive Test Engineer for Consumer Reports, shares important tips and information on car seat safety in this week’s Keeping Families Safe segment. Episode #102403. A 26-year-old psychic attempts to help people find answers. Director(s): Andy Barsh . Producer(s): Alexandra Jewett , George Davilas , Jamie Kotkin-Hammer , Michael Newport . Original Airdate: October 24, 2003. Clairvoyance: A True Sixth Sense Clairvoyant Dougall Fraser answers audience questions. John Walsh TV Listings: December 29 - January 2 2003 (http://tvtalkshows.com/board/showthread.php?t=87445) That same day, the John Walsh Show taped a program on "Psychic Phenomena: An Inside Look," to air on October 24. Both Noreen Renier and Gary Posner were contacted for possible appearances (just imagine the drama of that confrontation!), as was CSICOP's Joe Nickell (in the event Gary couldn’t make it). However, to avoid the airfares to New York City, the show decided instead, as its website announced that week, to "spend a fascinating hour with Dougall Fraser --— a 26-year-old clairvoyant . . . one of the country’s top psychics. . . . Dougall helps our guests find answers, hope, and in some cases, closure in their lives." John Walsh, of all people, ought to know better. After all, if "psychic" power was genuine, his other TV program, America’s Most Wanted, would be unnecessary -- the nation's legion of "psychic detectives" could take care of locating the fugitives, including the murderer (still unidentified) of his own son. As Posner told Walsh's producer, rather than "budgetary" concerns, he suspects that they cynically opted to titillate rather than "“educate your viewers about the true nature of 'psychic' [phenomena]." http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/v16n3rpt.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : Mariah Date : 15th February 2006 01:08 PM John Walsh and Psychics: Thanks, Luke T. That's what I was afraid of. That's too, too bad. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : Luke T. Date : 15th February 2006 02:04 PM John Walsh and Psychics: Thanks, Luke T. That's what I was afraid of. That's too, too bad. In his book, Dougall claims he convinced Walsh he was the genuine article. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Author : Kelly Date : 16th February 2006 10:56 PM That's too bad about John Walsh. He's a big enough name without needing to jump onto the psychic bandwagon. Misc notes: THanks again for the warm welcome, kindness, and compassion extended. Our pro bono "disappeared" on us. He did try hard for a long time, for which we are most grateful, but like LE, he couldn't figure it out, so things lie dormant for the most part. PI's in some cases are close to the same level as the psychics. Many of them charge a very hefty charge and give no results. The majority of the families we assist could not even begin to afford one. They're stuck with nothing. IN adult cases, often times little investigation is done by LE. That could be a part of why they get desperate and turn to psychics. Does anyone know how many people in general believe that psychics are the real thing? I ran into the IIG folks online some time back, Brian specifically. He asked me to write about my experiences, but at that time, I wasn't ready. Yes, I would be interested in the TAM, thank you. I see that it just took place. Is it always at that time of year in Vegas? Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Author : Silly Green Monkey Date : 16th February 2006 11:18 PM Benjamin Radford presented on psychic detectives at TAM4, including statistics on psychic success. I remember that only one psychic actually found a victim, by searching near where the police were searching. Of course, even the slightest correlation (near trees!) will be claimed as a success. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Author : Gayle Date : 17th February 2006 01:00 AM Kelly, please accept my sincerest condolences on the mysterious disappearance of your son. I will hope on your behalf... I applaud you for warning people about the futility of investing their hopes and money in psychic detectives ... people who cannot help. Every fiber of my being knows why desperate people turn to psychic help, which is no help at all. I understand it. I don't agree with it, but I do know how the desperation of not knowing can motivate a person to reach out to whatever crumb of help might be offered. Keep informing people, educating them. It's a worthy endeavor. Gayle -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Author : Mariah Date : 17th February 2006 03:19 AM I'm glad to see you post here, Kelly, because so much of what we do here on the JREF Forum is just talk, even though it is worthwhile talk when we are educating and encouraging each other. Your involvement opens up ways to actually DO something about all this. I'm always frustrated that we don't DO more. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 36] Author : Shaun from Scotland Date : 17th February 2006 05:51 AM She paid the woman the "discounted" fee of $50, which was to include a tape of the entire ordeal. An ordeal indeed. Well said. I hope things work out for you Kelly. Best wishes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 37] Author : Kelly Date : 17th February 2006 11:42 AM Thank you all. In relation to my initial inquiry, does anyone have any ideas for these 2 action items: "Another thing which would be helpful and would probably require someone with a pyschiatry background, is to find a way to help these families who feel pressured to use psychics, to not feel guilty about refusing these offers. And finally, I would love to find someone who is fairly well known in the debunking area, especially when it comes to missing person's cases, to do an interview for the blog I write." Takers? Someone always knows someone else..... As to the physciatrist person, I would like some quotes on how persons in these situations, when faced with the helplessness that comes when the case gets cold, can avoid the guilt/desperation that prompts them to seek out psychics. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 38] Author : Kelly Date : 17th February 2006 11:58 AM Incredible! I just get a pm. I was hoping it was the woman with the missing relative, but no, it was another one of THEM. Apparantly, they did not read this thread! "hi kellyj i was reading your posts so i checked out your sight and i wanted to let you know your a great person and would like to ask you if maybe i can try and help out i figure things out sometimes it just comes to me maybe you could send me things with pictures and any information with the cases or pictures of items also like personal belongings while i was reading about a missing child i knew right away what prob happend and as i read i was right" I said: "I don't think you read my post. Read it again. If you think you have "powers" then report what you know to law enforecement." Let me make this clear: Do NOT write to me or PM me with your claims and offers. If you think you know what happened to a missing person, contact the LE involved in their case. They can make the decision as to the validity of your claim and use resources to check it if that is their desire. I do not and will not refer "psychics" to the families we assist, nor act as a go-between to provide information. And furthermore, why don't we see your application submitted for the Million Dollar Challenge? To the rest of the readers: This is just another example of my undesired magnetism for these types. I was hoping I would be exempt here. I am trying to find a little humor in that. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 39] Author : CFLarsen Date : 17th February 2006 01:38 PM Kelly, If you feel this amounts to harrassment, report the member to the moderators. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 40] Author : The_Fire Date : 17th February 2006 01:41 PM What bunch of vultures......Kelly, you have my sympathy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 41] Author : Kelly Date : 17th February 2006 02:32 PM Kelly, If you feel this amounts to harrassment, report the member to the moderators. I'll let post #38 stand as a warning. This person just probably read "mother of missing" and didn't go on from there. I will give them the benefit of the doubt. If they persisted in PMing me, I would report them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 42] Author : AK-Dave Date : 17th February 2006 02:33 PM KellyJ, You should consider doing something like www.stopkaz.com (http://www.stopkaz.com), which is run by our very own RSLancastr. I'm sure he would be willing to give some tips on how to set it up. -David -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 43] Author : AK-Dave Date : 17th February 2006 02:38 PM "hi kellyj i was reading your posts so i checked out your sight and i wanted to let you know your a great person and would like to ask you if maybe i can try and help out i figure things out..." Apparently, this psychic person has evaluated your vision, and is offering to provide assistance with it. Perhaps they are a psychic optometrist. Were you aware that you has vision issues? -David -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 44] Author : Kelly Date : 17th February 2006 02:59 PM KellyJ, You should consider doing something like (site name), which is run by our very own RSLancastr. I'm sure he would be willing to give some tips on how to set it up. -David I believe my future blog series on this subject matter will serve the same purpose. While it won't be a separate site, it will suffice. I'm afraid I don't have time to build or maintain any more sites than what I already have. I hope the Kaz site helps to stop this woman. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 45] Author : Kelly Date : 17th February 2006 03:02 PM Apparently, this psychic person has evaluated your vision, and is offering to provide assistance with it. Perhaps they are a psychic optometrist. Were you aware that you has vision issues? -David Haven't you heard of "corneal bending"? At at given moment hundreds of "helpers" are willing my corneas to bend in a precise manner. This allows me to enjoy perfect vision. You should try it too. Rid yourself of glasses and contacts forever! ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 46] Author : Ducky Date : 17th February 2006 03:06 PM Hi Kelly, I'm a bit late to the game with this thread, but let me offer my deepest condolences for your son, and welcome you warmly. As for TAM, I was just at the last TAM and please believe me it was worth every second of it. I not only recieved help from forum members and the scholarship fund to make it there, but I was also able to do interviews for the podcast skepticality. Your story and your writings would be a very welcome presentation there and I urge you not just to apply for the scholarship when the dates and registrations are announced, but to make sure any paper/presentation you can put together is submitted to be presented at TAM. You have a very important story and experience, and a very important message to give, and I am sure the TAM coordinators would jump at the chance to help you get that message out. Secondly let me offer any help I can. I write well (though usually not on the forum, haha. You can read my very unpleasantly toned rant about alternative medicine in the thread titled "Doing the least to save your life") and have written articles for others (currently working on a story for the skepchicks ezine) but also you can check my blog at fowlsound.com for a small sampling dealing with my experiences as a cancer patient. I would happily research and write for you if it would help, and if there's another way I can help please PM me and let me know. Even if it is just sending some home made bananna bread for comfort food. Best wishes, and again welcome. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 47] Author : Kelly Date : 17th February 2006 04:01 PM Hello and thanks. When the next TAM is announced and open for registration, I will definetely check into it and see if I can go. I thank you for sharing your experiences and hope you will beat the cancer. I didn't even stop to think that people in precarious health situations would also be subject to quackery just as I am. I suppose there is a "fruitcake" for every occasion, just as there is a Hallmark card for various times of our lives. (They still have not come up with a "I'm sorry your loved one is missing." card.) As I get closer to working up the blog series, I will check back and tap into various person/sources to provide info and quotes to enlighten my readership. I'll take a raincheck on the banana bread, as my husband would surely eat it all, but if you have an extra chocolate, I would take some of that. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 48] Author : RichardR Date : 19th February 2006 03:15 PM What I want to be able to accomplish by posting here, is to have a very complete collection of links debunking the advantage takers when it comes to missing person's cases. This blog (http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html) has a whole series of posts debunking Allison Dubois. Don't know if that is the sort of thing you were looking for. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 49] Author : Kelly Date : 19th February 2006 09:15 PM Thanks, Richard. That was very interesting and enlightening. I did bookmark it and will very likely refer to it in my series, since it is a good example of a debunking on several fronts. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 50] Author : Mariah Date : 19th February 2006 09:41 PM Kelly, I contacted Dr. Michael Shermer. We'll see if you hear from him. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 51] Author : chillzero Date : 20th February 2006 06:07 AM Kind of off topic, kind of on topic... I wondered if anyone saw the final of the UK TV program that has been discussed here recently in another thread - 'Britain's Psychic Challenge'? It began with 8 'psychics' who were wittled down to 3 in the final, and one was announced the winner. The reason I raise it here is that the winner - Dianne Lazarus - performed most surprisingly in 2 tests when they were asked to locate a hidden person. One was in a forest, the other along a beach. In both cases Dianne stood for a minute, then set off walking in one direction, and kept that direction (more or less) until she stopped directly beside the person she was seeking. Now, when she won she was asked what her favourite moment was, and she replied that due to these two tests she has been approached by a search and rescue unit to work with them in the future. I don't know if there was a genuine demonstration of some paranormal ability here (I seriously doubt it), but it dismayed me no end to hear that she (if she is being honest) has been asked for help with no further questions asked, and no further proof of her ability required. I believe this falls into the realm of things such as are being discussed in this thread. I am waiting to find out where she goes from here, and will let you all know any updates. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 52] Author : Luke T. Date : 20th February 2006 08:08 AM This blog (http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html) has a whole series of posts debunking Allison Dubois. Don't know if that is the sort of thing you were looking for. I also wrote an article about Dubois and a "test" of her psychic abilities for Skeptic Report here. (http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/schwartzkeen.htm) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 53] Author : Luke T. Date : 20th February 2006 08:18 AM Kelly, I contacted Dr. Michael Shermer. We'll see if you hear from him. That would be awesome. Perhaps when Randi is restored to health, he can also be approached about this. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 54] Author : sophia8 Date : 20th February 2006 12:09 PM The reason I raise it here is that the winner - Dianne Lazarus - performed most surprisingly in 2 tests when they were asked to locate a hidden person. One was in a forest, the other along a beach. In both cases Dianne stood for a minute, then set off walking in one direction, and kept that direction (more or less) until she stopped directly beside the person she was seeking. Now, when she won she was asked what her favourite moment was, and she replied that due to these two tests she has been approached by a search and rescue unit to work with them in the future. I didn't see the show, but it sounds to me like she was simply following a trail. That would be easy in a wooded area - people don't walk through bramble thickets, for instance - and even easier on a beach. Was she set down at the spots where the 'missing person' set off from? Secendly, most search & rescue outfits are run by civilain volunteers. It was likely that she met up with some members in a pub (or was introduced to them?) and they joked about inviting her to join them. I cannot imagine any search & rescue outfit actually taking along a completely untrained and untried 'civvy' with them. They may be unpaid, but they are all totally professional at their job, highly safety-concious, and rely on each other. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 55] Author : Kelly Date : 20th February 2006 09:45 PM Thanks Mariah and Luke T. I continue to work on background studies in the meantime and will be sending a notify to our families we work for very soon to solicit their stories. Hopefully, they will be moved to share. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 56] Author : chillzero Date : 21st February 2006 06:17 AM I didn't see the show, but it sounds to me like she was simply following a trail. That would be easy in a wooded area - people don't walk through bramble thickets, for instance - and even easier on a beach. Was she set down at the spots where the 'missing person' set off from? Secendly, most search & rescue outfits are run by civilain volunteers. It was likely that she met up with some members in a pub (or was introduced to them?) and they joked about inviting her to join them. I cannot imagine any search & rescue outfit actually taking along a completely untrained and untried 'civvy' with them. They may be unpaid, but they are all totally professional at their job, highly safety-concious, and rely on each other. (I don't want to derail the thread, so I will just answer this - we can start a new thread on this topic if required.) At the beach she was brought to the blanket were the boy they hid had been 'playing' before they moved him to the dunes to hide him. There was a clear short line from it to the dunes. This did bother me. However, the boy was not in a straight line from that point, and the bay was quite long, giving a 180 degree view from one end to the other. I also wondered if the men accompanying her at both tests had subconciously glanced in the target direction before telling her to proceed - I think it would be hard not to. Search and Rescue were present at the test - they failed to find the missing boy - they said they would search for 30 mins, then use a heat seeking device from a helicopter. It can be assumed that it was this team, but she wasn't specific. In the forest there was no obvious trail, but in both cases she appears to have been the last person to set off, so perhaps the land was a little more scuffed up - you would really need to watch it, because it was surprisingly accurate how she did it. There was substantial forest space to investigate, but they did not move the target between 'psychics' on either test. However, she failed miserably in some other tests, and appeared to become more precise as the weeks drew on, which makes me suspect assistance from the crew (particularly the "sceptical" police officer). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 57] Author : Kelly Date : 21st February 2006 03:21 PM This is the piece I will be sending out to the families we serve late this evening to ask for their stories. If anyone has any ideas for something I'm lacking, feel free to speak up. Thanks. "Most of you are familiar with my online blog. (Please see the link in my signature line if you are not.) My blog series on the unidentified deceased and throwaway missing sparked the nationwide Campaign for the Missing, which is already showing results, thanks to a great group of people working together. I am now doing research for another series with potential impact and I want your participation. In fact, not only do I want it, but justice cries out for it. We, the families of the missing, are victims in several ways. If our loved one has been taken from us in a brutal way, we are victims. We may also be victims of a poorly constructed and trained LE structure. We may be victims of society's apathy to our plight because of prejudices against missing persons, particularly adults. We again may be the victims of a nonresponsive media. There is one method of victimization that can be avoided, however, and that is by people who claim to be able to find your missing loved one via paranormal means. There are several things I want to accomplish in this series. Before going into that, it may be helpful to clarify our position on this: There is not one proven case in which a psychic, using special powers or abilities not given to the typical person, has located a missing person, whether dead or alive. It may be possible that some persons have some ability that defies science and logic, but there is no known scientific evidence of this. These persons re-victimize families by taking away hope where it should stand, and giving hope where there is none. No person has the right to do this to another. Advantage takers, such as psychics and other users of proported paranormal phenomena, cause unneccesary and damaging pain and anguish to families of the missing. They can also add to financial stress if they charge fees. We're already on a roller coaster ride of events and emotions, and we should have no desire to add to it. What we wish to accomplish in this series is to demonstrate to families of the missing the real methodology used by these persons. Understanding what goes on behind the scenes should lessen any guilt feelings for not accepting offers of "help" from these persons, whether it is fee-based or not. We want to lessen the pain already present in our every breath, and arm families with the information to defend themselves against these persons. Marc Klaas, Founder of KlaasKids and father of abducted, then murdered child Polly Klass, said it best: "I have very strong feelings about psychics. They're part of a second wave of predators. The first wave is the person who takes the child. The second is the ambulance-chasing lawyers, the exploitation journalists and psychics. They're off the mark, every last one of them." Please also note that the FBI and NCMEC maintain that psychics have never solved a single missing person's case. In order for this series to be completely effective, I need you to share your stories about your dealings with psychics. If you are interested in doing this to help other families of the missing, please send me your story no later than March 3rd. If you feel it would be helpful to you, I will be happy to send you a basic outline of how to present your story." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 58] Author : Mariah Date : 21st February 2006 03:28 PM This is very well written, Kelly. This is a small thing, but I'd suggest spelling out LE and NCMEC in addition to the letters. It ought to have been obvious to me, but I had to stop and think of what they meant. I think I might try to contact Susan Blackmore. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 59] Author : J. Arthur Hastur Date : 21st February 2006 03:33 PM Very good idea, I wonder why it hasn't been done sooner? The way that psychic predators come out of the woodwork when a child goes missing or is murdered, educating parents on their scams. Something that law enforcement should be aware of as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 60] Author : cpolk Date : 21st February 2006 03:34 PM A rule of thumb with an organization such as yours: Pay for results. You pay contractors in every field dependent upon their results, and you should treat 'psychics' the same way. Tell them that they will receive no pay until results are produced. Set a pre-determined amount, and suggest for pay scale determined by usefulness of the information, so that the more accurate they are, the more they will get paid. If they do not prove to be accurate beyond what could be conceived by merely guessing, do not pay them. This way, you are giving them a chance to apply their "trade" while protecting your organization from scam artists. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 61] Author : ysabella Date : 21st February 2006 04:11 PM cpolk, the drawback I see with that, is the way psychics then go on to claim success or at least contribution to the case, no matter what really happened - e.g. they'll add to their web site "Worked closely with Bedrock P.D. in missing Pebbles case," when not one of the cops ever passed word one with them. You would have to add a clause of "absolutely no disclosure to the press" or something like that. You know, maybe that would be the fastest way to get rid of them? Only let them on the case if they sign a contract stating they won't say anything to any media whatsoever? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 62] Author : Luke T. Date : 21st February 2006 04:11 PM Excellent post soliciting input from victims of psychics claiming to find missing people, Kelly. One misspelling: Advantage takers, such as psychics and other users of proported paranormal phenomena I believe you mean "purported". Also, be aware that some people are going to respond to your solicitation claiming success with psychics. How do you plan on handling that? Are you not going to include their remarks in your future reports? You also need to be aware that some respondees may claim their missing loved one was found by a psychic. Beware of frauds. These may be shills for the very psychics you are fighting. Make sure you ask for bona fide evidence. News report, etc. (ETA: Make sure they are who they say they are. Name, address, phone number, name of investigating officer. You get the idea.) I admire your courage and the amount of energy you are putting into this effort. You must love your son very, very much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 63] Author : JLam Date : 21st February 2006 05:01 PM Very nice, KellyJ. We'll all be here to help you along the way. Keep us updated on your efforts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 64] Author : cpolk Date : 21st February 2006 05:37 PM cpolk, the drawback I see with that, is the way psychics then go on to claim success or at least contribution to the case, no matter what really happened - e.g. they'll add to their web site "Worked closely with Bedrock P.D. in missing Pebbles case," when not one of the cops ever passed word one with them. You would have to add a clause of "absolutely no disclosure to the press" or something like that. You know, maybe that would be the fastest way to get rid of them? Only let them on the case if they sign a contract stating they won't say anything to any media whatsoever? Trust me, the fastest way to get rid of them is to say that they won't get paid until results are confirmed. A contract alone would prevent them from libel or slander, such as claiming undue credit. You will have a clear definition of what they were to provide and whether or not they provided it. If they do provide it, let them shout it from the hilltops. If they don't, threatening legal action will remove it from their website. That is the mistake that police departments make. They don't enforce signing contracts because they believe the nonsense about "you must forgo common sense", and as a result have no legal standing, because they cannot prove that the psychics did not provide the results they claimed that they would. For instance, without a contract detailing what type of information counts as viable information, a psychic could say, "I see a body of water" on a case involving a person who went missing on a fishing trip, and they would legally have the right to proclaim that they provided information. Without a contract, that is paramount to having to pay an archetitect's full fee for building a house because he gave you the number of a guy who sells lumber cheap, then having the archiect proclaim that he took a part in designing your building. With a contract, you can prove what was supposed to be done, and through record-keeping you can prove what was actually done. On that note, have the "psychics" provide everything in writing and/or on tape. Or just skip the psychic connection altogether. This is a lot of work on your part, and you should only do it to placate the family members who feel that you are not using all the resources available to you. A statement regarding psychics, as you had posted earlier, is the route I would take. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 65] Author : Luke T. Date : 21st February 2006 05:41 PM If one of my children went missing and a psychic contacted me, I'd invite them over. And have the press there when they arrived. Then make a speech about what a piece of crap lowlife bloodsucking vampire the psychic is for trying to victimize me in the worst period of my life. "Snap a photo of this scumbag, folks, for your readers/viewers!" I doubt I'd get any more calls from psychics or the journalists who shill for them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 66] Author : RichardR Date : 21st February 2006 08:57 PM I wondered if anyone saw the final of the UK TV program that has been discussed here recently in another thread - 'Britain's Psychic Challenge'? It began with 8 'psychics' who were wittled down to 3 in the final, and one was announced the winner. If they were really psychic, why would the losing ones participate? I mean, if they already knew they were going to lose before they started… ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 67] Author : Kelly Date : 21st February 2006 10:36 PM This is very well written, Kelly. This is a small thing, but I'd suggest spelling out LE and NCMEC in addition to the letters. It ought to have been obvious to me, but I had to stop and think of what they meant. I think I might try to contact Susan Blackmore. Thanks, Mariah. I should have spelled those out for this audience. The families know what LE and NCMEC is, but others outside the circle would not. LE=Law Enforcement NCMEC=National Center for Missing and Exploited Children Thanks for contacting Susan! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 68] Author : Kelly Date : 21st February 2006 10:47 PM Trust me, the fastest way to get rid of them is to say that they won't get paid until results are confirmed. A contract alone would prevent them from libel or slander, such as claiming undue credit. You will have a clear definition of what they were to provide and whether or not they provided it. If they do provide it, let them shout it from the hilltops. If they don't, threatening legal action will remove it from their website. That is the mistake that police departments make. They don't enforce signing contracts because they believe the nonsense about "you must forgo common sense", and as a result have no legal standing, because they cannot prove that the psychics did not provide the results they claimed that they would. For instance, without a contract detailing what type of information counts as viable information, a psychic could say, "I see a body of water" on a case involving a person who went missing on a fishing trip, and they would legally have the right to proclaim that they provided information. Without a contract, that is paramount to having to pay an archetitect's full fee for building a house because he gave you the number of a guy who sells lumber cheap, then having the archiect proclaim that he took a part in designing your building. With a contract, you can prove what was supposed to be done, and through record-keeping you can prove what was actually done. On that note, have the "psychics" provide everything in writing and/or on tape. Or just skip the psychic connection altogether. This is a lot of work on your part, and you should only do it to placate the family members who feel that you are not using all the resources available to you. A statement regarding psychics, as you had posted earlier, is the route I would take. In regards to this whole issue about offering money to psychics if they can prove themselves: Our mission is to help the families. We don't want to become a missing person/psychic busting entity. If we offered something like that, they'd be coming out of the woodwork to try for the money, and we'd be spending our days and nights determining if anyone gave adequate proof rather than helping the families. It's an interesting concept, but in a sense, that's what the Million Dollar Challenge is, correct? My reason behind what I am doing is to show these victims the truth behind the mystique and to help them feel justified in the decision not to go down this futile and painful road. I want to alleviate their guilt and keep them from giving into the desperation/helplessness that comes with the territory. If we bust some of these losers while doing this, that's icing on the cake. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 69] Author : Kelly Date : 21st February 2006 11:20 PM Excellent post soliciting input from victims of psychics claiming to find missing people, Kelly. One misspelling: I believe you mean "purported". Also, be aware that some people are going to respond to your solicitation claiming success with psychics. How do you plan on handling that? Are you not going to include their remarks in your future reports? You also need to be aware that some respondees may claim their missing loved one was found by a psychic. Beware of frauds. These may be shills for the very psychics you are fighting. Make sure you ask for bona fide evidence. News report, etc. (ETA: Make sure they are who they say they are. Name, address, phone number, name of investigating officer. You get the idea.) I admire your courage and the amount of energy you are putting into this effort. You must love your son very, very much. Thanks, Luke. I'll correct that word. I knew it didn't look right, but the words were flowing, so I ignored it. The issues with attracting even more vermin needs to be dicussed. In my writings, I will make it clear that we are not going to become an agency that investigates psychic's claims. I can imagine it getting very out of hand. I will nip it in the bud by letting them know that their emails will be deleted. At the same time, I don't want to give the appearance of not being open to the possibility. This may keep fence sitters from becoming defensive towards us. That may buy time to dazzle them with logic and facts. Here's my idea on the latter: I will encourage those persons to come here and post their claims. That is, if the members here are ok with me referring them here. I would say something such as: "We understand that many people believe that psychics are effective in solving crimes and finding missing people. Please keep in mind that the goal of this series is to help families understand techniques used by persons making these claims and make better decisions about the use of psychics. Project Jason and its volunteers cannot act as a clearinghouse for persons claiming success in using paranormal means to locate missing persons. We will be unable to respond to emails or other correspondence sent to us from persons making these claims or persons offering information about or referrals to psychics. We instead invite those persons to present their evidence to the members of the James Randi Education Foundation. They have a forum available for you to discuss your claims. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7 " Would that be acceptable to the members and the foundation? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 70] Author : Kelly Date : 21st February 2006 11:42 PM BTW, thanks to all for the encouragement and assistance. Here's another idea that came to me that would be not only helpful to me timewise, but also would lend to the air of authority in presenting this. Would members who have previous writing/presenting experience like to be a guest writer in the series and present various debunking scenarios? For example, one person would take the category of medium and present the definition and then give an example of the methods used. Some of the example dialogs I've seen would be very effective, especially when the scripts are written with a missing person's case in mind. Thoughts? Volunteers? I can finally post links! Here's my standard signature: Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski President and Founder, Project Jason http://www.projectjason.org Read our Voice for the Missing Blog http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 71] Author : Gr8wight Date : 22nd February 2006 12:00 AM This blog (http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html) has a whole series of posts debunking Allison Dubois. Don't know if that is the sort of thing you were looking for. Kelly, Please allow me to add my welcome to the other voices speaking up. You are a truly brave and strong woman. On behalf of those less versed in critical thinking than we, I thank you. Just one note regarding the blog RichardR provided a link to. Be aware that twopercentco.com (http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/) do not pull any punches, and do not censor themselves. You might want to warn anyone you refer to their site that they will likely encounter off-colour language. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 72] Author : Kelly Date : 22nd February 2006 01:49 AM Hello Gr8wight....love the hat. Thanks for the warm welcome. I don't feel brave, really. Perhaps the roots of this are found in my rebellious teenage years. I always considered myself to be a "Rebel with a Cause". :cool: As an adult, I now get to act this out and get away with it. At least I'm not breaking any laws! I am always reminded, however, of the reason I am in this position, in which there is no humor. I do consider it a privlege to be in a position of having an effect on so many lives. It is one I do not take lightly. I noticed the language at twopercent. If I choose to use that link in the series, I will post a warning. Thanks for being sensitive to the needs of others. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 73] Author : Scoobmaster Date : 22nd February 2006 06:33 AM Thread Title : happening right here locally.............. Hi kellyJ! I don't post messages here as often as many others, but let me extend a welcome to the forums. I also express my deepest sympathy concerning your missing son. After following this thread for a week, I found tragic irony in a news story in my local paper about a woman who went missing 6 weeks ago. Here is the pertinent quote (emphasis added by me): "Without any fresh news from police, her family turned to a local psychic last week. Phil Jordan told them that he envisioned Madden as meeting up with two men. He told them that she may have been injured in the head or chest, but that he didn't envision her as being dead, he said on a tape recording. Jordan also pointed them to Great Bend, Pa. - a border community with New York state. This information gave them hope. One of the first tips to police was that a woman fitting Madden's description had been spotted hitchhiking in Great Bend. The family drove the streets of the small Pennsylvania community. They put up posters there and spoke to Pennsylvania State Police. But they've heard nothing, her mother and father said. The lead never panned out." Gee. I wonder why? Here is the link to the full news report: http://pressconnects.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060222/NEWS01/602220313/1006 Sounds all too familiar, doesn't it? The name Phil Jordan is probably all too familiar to members of the forum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 74] Author : elaine Date : 22nd February 2006 07:06 AM KellyJ, Thanks for starting this thread. I've referred a friend, who is a big Sylvia Brown fan, to your website and here. My hope is to show her that there is harm in what these people do. Keep up the great work!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 75] Author : Gr8wight Date : 22nd February 2006 07:29 AM Hello Gr8wight....love the hat. Thanks for the warm welcome. Unfortunately, it is not my hat. I don't feel brave, really. I think that those we see as brave never see themselves as brave. They simply see themselves as having done what was necessary. I noticed the language at twopercent. If I choose to use that link in the series, I will post a warning. Thanks for being sensitive to the needs of others. Kelly Shhh, don't tell anyone. You'll spoil my rep. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 76] Author : Kelly Date : 22nd February 2006 10:35 AM Oh my, Wanderin....you seem to have placed yourself on the defensive. If you recall, you pm'd me, offering your "services". I assumed you must have not really read the thread well, otherwise it would have been apparent to you that I did not want to receive solicitations of this type. I encouraged you to post a separate thread about whatever it is that you say you do for the edification of others. Instead, you came back here and launched a verbal assault. If you go back to post #38, you will see that I mentioned I would give you the benefit of the doubt. I was not unkind. However, you were. Whether or not a person wants money or does not want money has no bearing on the damage done to the psyche by individuals claiming to have knowledge of a missing person's whereabouts who do not. I do not close the door completely on such persons. I do tell them that if they think they know something, they should take that information straight to law enforcement. I let them discern if the information has any merit and act upon it accordingly. I don't know if you have children or not, and even if you don't, why don’t you imagine the person you love most in the world? Imagine that he/she is gone, and you have no idea what has happened to them. Dozens, and perhaps even hundreds of people come forward, offering their "help". They tell you all sorts of things, none of them the same as the others, and none of them ever results in finding the missing loved one. Regardless, you MUST listen to all of it, over and over again, lest you be accused of not wanting to find the missing loved one. You must listen to them tell you the most horrid things you can imagine being done to a person by another. You must listen to them telling you that your missing loved one was stabbed, beaten, and then their head was bashed in. You must listen as they tell you that your missing loved one was still alive, wimpering and asking for help as he/she drew their last breath, and no one was listening. He/she was all alone, and then the end came. All of these people who come to you offering help want you to go through something like that. How did you feel reading that? How many times would you want to hear stories like that? What do you think that does to a person? Do you think it's healthy? How is it that it is called "helping"? Nothing has ever come of it except for pain. Is pain helpful? Does pain find the missing person? Granted, this is the worst of this type of thing, but people who are not in this position have no idea of the roller coaster ride of emotions that we ride daily. We live with an ongoing trauma. Anyone in the medical field can understand what trauma does to a person mentally and physically. To add to that trauma needlessly is not a good idea. Needlessly refers to the fact that persons using paranormal means have not proven themselves useful in finding the missing person. I just don't know how much clearer I can make this. And in regards to caring, I care a great deal. If I didn’t, I wouldn't do this work while dealing with my own loss. Anyone who knows the work I have done cannnot dispute that I care. The fact that you do not understand how I can disagree with your opinion does not negate my caring. BTW, every single word written on the website and the blog are written by me unless otherwise noted. I really don't know what that has to do with anything, just as I do not understand the comment about donations. Where do you think a nonprofit gets their money? My husband and I are both working stiffs. Our family is not well off financially, so we cannot front the money to the organization to pay for the services provided. Just as with almost all small nonprofits, we depend upon the generosity of the public to help us accomplish our goals. We have no paid staff and we do not not even have an office. The only equipment owned by the organization is one phone and one laptop, which was donated. Without donations, how would we pay the phone or the website bill? How would we pay for the Personal ID Kits and other safety/prevention information we give away? How would we pay for the financial aid given to the families for visual aids, such as posters? We do not charge one penny to anyone for these services. We will not take money from the families we serve. That is wrong in our opinion. How would you propose that we pay for all of this if not through donations from generous people? I have taken a considerable amount of my time now to help you understand this, Wanderin. I hope it is helpful to you in some way. Now I ask that the thread be returned to its purpose, which is for members here to help me help the families of the missing understand the issues regarding psychics. I again encourage you to start your own thread about your methods. Thank you in advance for your consideration. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 77] Author : Luke T. Date : 22nd February 2006 11:30 AM I don't know if you have children or not, and even if you don't, why don’t you imagine the person you love most in the world? Imagine that he/she is gone, and you have no idea what has happened to them. Dozens, and perhaps even hundreds of people come forward, offering their "help". They tell you all sorts of things, none of them the same as the others, and none of them ever results in finding the missing loved one. Regardless, you MUST listen to all of it, over and over again, lest you be accused of not wanting to find the missing loved one. You must listen to them tell you the most horrid things you can imagine being done to a person by another. You must listen to them telling you that your missing loved one was stabbed, beaten, and then their head was bashed in. You must listen as they tell you that your missing loved one was still alive, wimpering and asking for help as he/she drew their last breath, and no one was listening. He/she was all alone, and then the end came. Kelly, if (WHEN!) you end up making a presentation at The Amazing Meeting next year, this should be your opening statement. Nominated for the language award (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1462655#post1462655). I’ve linked to it in case Kelly doesn’t know what that is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 78] Author : Beth Date : 22nd February 2006 11:33 AM Wow, Kelly. You have my compliments for your post. I'm glad to see it's already been nominated for the language award. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 79] Author : Ducky Date : 22nd February 2006 11:33 AM Kelly I second that Language nomination. Also, I would point out WanderinWTF also thinks his "powers" can cure back pain. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1431127#post1431127) Pay no attention to that troll. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 80] Author : Luke T. Date : 22nd February 2006 11:50 AM Kelly I second that Language nomination. Also, I would point out WanderinWTF also thinks his "powers" can cure back pain. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1431127#post1431127) Pay no attention to that troll. Love your response to that post. :D :D :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 81] Author : Ducky Date : 22nd February 2006 11:56 AM Love your response to that post. :D :D :D I think that may be my defacto response to everything that idiot posts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 82] Author : Kelly Date : 22nd February 2006 12:29 PM A blanket thank you all once again. I did not know what the Language Nomination was all about, but I read up on it and hope to win the Jaguar, if given a choice. :D Funny thing..there is a tiny grammatical error on that post that I will fix, and I hope that will not nullify my entry! Elaine: I haven't heard from your friend yet, but I will set her straight about SB. RE: Phil Jordan I've heard the name, but don't much about his gig. Notice the desperation of the parents in the article. There was no activity on the case, so they felt they had to take this action. This is a very common scenario. Media attention and police attention wane, and families are left feeling helpless and alone. Many times, they are encouraged by others to seek out these persons, not realizing just how empty they will feel afterwards. They "bottom out", so to speak emotionally, when nothing comes of the "lead". Could everyone please glance back at my posts pre-drama and see what you think about my ideas? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 83] Author : Kelly Date : 22nd February 2006 12:33 PM A blanket thank you all once again. I did not know what the Language Nomination was all about, but I read up on it and hope to win the Jaguar, if given a choice. :D Funny thing..there is a tiny grammatical error on that post that I will fix, and I hope that will not nullify my entry! Elaine: I haven't heard from your friend yet, but I will set her straight about SB. RE: Phil Jordan I've heard the name, but don't much about his gig. Notice the desperation of the parents in the article. There was no activity on the case, so they felt they had to take this action. This is a very common scenario. Media attention and police attention wane, and families are left feeling helpless and alone. Many times, they are encouraged by others to seek out these persons, not realizing just how empty they will feel afterwards. They "bottom out", so to speak emotionally, when nothing comes of the "lead". Could everyone please glance back at my posts pre-drama and see what you think about my ideas? These would be posts #71 & 72. Perhaps I did not have a grammatical error after all. The post stands. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 84] Author : ObscureReferenceMan Date : 22nd February 2006 12:57 PM A little late, but... Welcome KellyJ! I must say, you are a class act. Coming here to speak your mind/heart on a subject so painful is inspiring (and your diplomatic handling of WTF - well said!). I'm glad someone like you is able to take a stand against the psychic scum that feeds off the grief of others. If the "skeptic community" takes a stand, we might simply come off as closed-minded wet-blankets out to prove our own superiority. You are an example - to show that these psychics are not only ineffective, but also harmful. Though a skeptic, I don't come down hard on much of the "woo" out there - with the exception of psychic detectives and the likes of John Edward and Silvia Browne. (Must... contain... bile.....) Keep up the good work! And I hope we see more of you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 85] Author : HeyLeroy Date : 22nd February 2006 01:42 PM Welcome, KellyJ, and let me express my deepest sympathy to you and your family. We're all pulling for a good outcome to your dreadful situation. As a father of two young children, I couldn't imagine what I would do if I was faced with the same situation. I could only hope that I would have the strength and courage you are showing. You should be commended for your efforts in trying to put an end to the pain caused by these vile, despicable vultures. I have nothing but contempt for those people. Thank you for sharing your story here, and if there's any way we can help, please continue to keep us informed. I see that others have come forward with help, and I'm proud to be a part of this community. I missed this year's TAM, but I look forward to seeing a presentation by you at next year's, if it's at all possible. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 86] Author : elaine Date : 22nd February 2006 01:46 PM Elaine: I haven't heard from your friend yet, but I will set her straight about SB. I doubt you will hear from my friend. She's pretty unbending on this issue. I try not to be too critical. I've been quite a woo believer, in the not too distant past. I only hope I was never that bad. As far as your ideas, I can't speak for Randi or anyone else, but I think they're great. But to give those who claim special gifts the opportunity to prove their claims, is the reason the challenge was created to begin with. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 87] Author : HeyLeroy Date : 22nd February 2006 01:51 PM I've recently read John Walsh's book about the murder of his son. I'm not at home right now, and I can't remember the title, but I do recall he was pretty harsh toward the psychics who tried scamming on him. I'll track down the passage when I get home. It would be saddening if he's somehow changed his opinion on this. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 88] Author : chillzero Date : 22nd February 2006 03:36 PM Now I ask that the thread be returned to its purpose, which is for members here to help me help the families of the missing understand the issues regarding psychics. Kelly, I would like to apologise for de-railing earlier, and for my little emotional outburst. What you are doing is amazing, and I am sorry about the source of all the good work. I hope that some day you get closure of some kind. I think the ideas you have put forward are all excellent, and I wish I could offer some practical help. I'm not a debunker, or a psychiatrist, nor do I have any links I can offer to assist you. I am a budding writer however (unpublished), so perhaps I could write up something for you, if you would like. Perhaps I could look into the woman I mentioned earlier who won the tv show here in the UK. Her site claims that she has given help to various police forces in solving cases and tracing people, and shows letters from police forces about her input. A good article writer, in my opinion, is Tony Youens. You can see examples of his articles examining psychic performances at his site: http://www.tonyyouens.com/ and he is a regular poster here too. In my opinion he would be a good guest writer for you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 89] Author : Roadtoad Date : 22nd February 2006 07:00 PM Just read this. Damn. Kelly, if there's a way, can you get me some photos of your son and those you're looking for? If I can, while I'm out on the road, I'll see if anyone will post those pictures. Truck stops sometimes accept them, and I'll see if Cal Trans will allow them at rest areas. Ditto NDOT and other orgs. Maybe other drivers will take a few. It's not much, but if it helps, well, I'm willing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 90] Author : DSE Date : 22nd February 2006 07:01 PM KellyJ, I can't imagine what it must be like to go through what you have. But, like everyone else, I am hugely appreciative of what you're doing. Whether it's intentional or not, it's hard to watch psychics take advantage of people when they are most desperate. In terms of notable skeptics on the topic, Benjamin Radford from the Skeptical Inquirer just did an interview on the Point of Inquiry podcast on Psychics Detectives. It was a good interview, and he might be a good person talk to. Hope this helps. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 91] Author : AOK Tiger Date : 22nd February 2006 07:25 PM Kelly, I don’t often get moved by many things but your plight and the dignity and eloquence you show in handling it are truly inspiring. I offer up my sincerest hope that your son is found and your situation resolved. WanderinWTF, People here have been FAR too kind. Your pathetically worded and ridiculous ramble shows what a complete semi-literate moron you are. You probably do think you have some sort of “power”.. you sound too stupid to realise dreaming and coincidences are just NORMAL. I would have let your inanity slide except you DARED to have a go at Kelly for casting some perceived slight on you. Kelly should have hit you with both barrels instead she treated you with FAR more respect than you deserved. I have NEVER called for the banning of someone, anywhere, anytime, any forum, any topic… but you are a complete waste of space and should be removed … Others My faith in this site (and most of its members) has been renewed yet again.. except for that idiot Wanderin.. the responses have been fantastic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 92] Author : meg Date : 23rd February 2006 08:07 AM KellyJ, I just want to repeat what so many here have said. Welcome, and thank you for doing what you are doing. It is a valuable service. My heart aches for the agony you must go through daily. I am full of admiration for your strength, tact and wisdom. If there is anything that I can do to help your cause, I will try to do it. I hope to attend TAM next year, too. If you can come, I promise I'll bring you chocolate :) WanderinWTF Hasn't your own performance here just proven that you have no gift, and you have no idea what "help" even means? If you really want to be helpful to the world, why don't you seek out a therapist to help you figure out why you are so pathetically insecure as to seek out a person in great emotional pain and distress and try to make her pay attention to you by doing the exact thing that she has requested people NOT do? And when she told you to go away, you attack her as "not caring"?????? You are an idiot. Go away. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 93] Author : Flo Date : 23rd February 2006 08:57 AM Whether or not a person wants money or does not want money has no bearing on the damage done to the psyche by individuals claiming to have knowledge of a missing person's whereabouts who do not. ..... I don't know if you have children or not, and even if you don't, why don’t you imagine the person you love most in the world? Imagine that he/she is gone, and you have no idea what has happened to them. Dozens, and perhaps even hundreds of people come forward, offering their "help". They tell you all sorts of things, none of them the same as the others, and none of them ever results in finding the missing loved one. Regardless, you MUST listen to all of it, over and over again, lest you be accused of not wanting to find the missing loved one. You must listen to them tell you the most horrid things you can imagine being done to a person by another. You must listen to them telling you that your missing loved one was stabbed, beaten, and then their head was bashed in. You must listen as they tell you that your missing loved one was still alive, wimpering and asking for help as he/she drew their last breath, and no one was listening. He/she was all alone, and then the end came. All of these people who come to you offering help want you to go through something like that. How did you feel reading that? How many times would you want to hear stories like that? What do you think that does to a person? Do you think it's healthy? How is it that it is called "helping"? Nothing has ever come of it except for pain. Is pain helpful? Does pain find the missing person? KellyJ, Thank you for expressing so eloquently the reasons it is so necessary to fight the false pretenses of psychics, charlatans, and other emotional vampires. Sorry there's not much more I can do for you than express my deepest sympathy. Florence -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 94] Author : farrisjs Date : 23rd February 2006 09:29 AM KellyJ Let me also thank you for you good work. Being the father of two girls I can only imagine what you have been thru and I am inspired by your williness to help others and fight against those who prey on them. Steve -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 95] Author : Mercutio Date : 23rd February 2006 11:03 AM ya well imagine that something happend[snip] Lemme guess...as a hobby, you pour salt into people's wounds. KellyJ--a question, where you would have a better answer than most: Suppose we read in our local paper of a child who has gone missing. Would it be a reasonable or unreasonable idea to contact (perhaps a flyer by mail would be a fairly non-intrusive way?) them with information about the worthlessness of these predatory scum "psychics"? Perhaps with information about websites like yours, or some of the information from your (or another appropriate) site? I feel like I would want to contact them and say "send all such psychic volunteers to me, and I'll deal with them for you, so that you are not subjected to this torture", but I also realize that is somewhat insulting to them. And of course, doing nothing leaves this helpless feeling... Just an idea... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 96] Author : The Central Scrutinizer Date : 23rd February 2006 11:36 AM I personally have not been able to make the meetings due to scheduling issues, but every year there is an "Scholarship Fund" to help out worthy people who would attend but cannot because of finances. This year it paid the expenses of quite a few. 42, if I recall correctly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 97] Author : Mariah Date : 23rd February 2006 11:39 AM Thread Title : Statement on Psychics by Dr. Susan Blackmore Those connected to the skeptical cause know that Dr. Susan Blackmore of the UK is an internationally-known scientist and proponent of rational thinking. No one--no one--has investigated claims of the paranormal for as long or as thoroughly as Susan Blackmore. She began her career with the aim of proving psi exists, and ended it after three decades of finding no evidence. I'm pleased she responded to my email requesting her take on the issue of psychic detectives. A brief bio of Dr. Blackmore, followed by her statement to us: Sue Blackmore is a freelance writer, lecturer and broadcaster, and a Visiting Lecturer at the University of the West of England, Bristol. She has a degree in psychology and physiology from Oxford University (1973) and a PhD in parapsychology from the University of Surrey (1980). Her research interests include memes (http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/memetics/index.htm), evolutionary theory, consciousness, and meditation. Sue Blackmore no longer works on the paranormal. She writes for several magazines and newspapers, and is a frequent contributor and presenter on radio and television (http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/media.htm). She is author of over sixty academic articles, about forty book contributions, and many book reviews. Her books (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/publicat.htm#Books) include Beyond the Body (1982), Dying to Live (on near-death experiences, 1993), In Search of the Light (autobiography, 1996), and Test Your Psychic Powers (with Adam Hart-Davis, 1997). The Meme Machine (1999) has been translated into 13 other languages. Her textbook Consciousness: An Introduction was published in June 2003 (Hodder UK, OUP New York), and A Very Short Introduction to Consciousness in 2005 (OUP). Her latest book is Conversations on Consciousness (November 2005 OUP Oxford) published in January 2006. Back in 2000, in cleaning out her files and declaring that she had given up investigating the paranormal she said, "I found no psychic phenomena - only wishful thinking, self-deception, experimental error and, occasionally, fraud. I became a sceptic." When I shared KellyJ's personal story and Project Jason with Dr. Blackmore, she went to the website and blog and read it thoroughly. Her sympathy with Kelly's situation was palpable, even over email. In offering us the following statement, however, she wanted to make sure we understood that she in no way endorses religion. "I investigated psychics and psychic claims for 30 years. In all that time I never encountered convincing evidence of any psychic powers. I met many friendly and pleasant psychics who made false claims while apparently genuinely believing in their powers; they were self-deluded as well as misleading others. I also met a few out-and-out frauds whose harm cannot easily be exaggerated. They prey on the bereaved, the fearful and the vulnerable to extract large sums of money under false pretences. The tricks they use need to be exposed and people helped to avoid being sucked into their clutches." ---Dr. Susan Blackmore. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 98] Author : J. Arthur Hastur Date : 23rd February 2006 11:53 AM Cora Baron, at it again. http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0206/2301_grinstead_family_tries_to_find_her.html Now preying upon Tara Grinstead's family. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 99] Author : The_Fire Date : 23rd February 2006 11:55 AM I've had it. *starts working on a documentary synopsis on exactly HOW many cases are solved with the help of Psychics in order to hopefully get one of the national television stations interested.* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 100] Author : Mercutio Date : 23rd February 2006 11:56 AM Sylvia Baron, at it again. http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0206/2301_grinstead_family_tries_to_find_her.html Now preying upon Tara Grinstead's family. Cora Baron, you mean. Had me confused for a bit... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 101] Author : J. Arthur Hastur Date : 23rd February 2006 12:01 PM Cora Baron, you mean. Had me confused for a bit... You are correct sir, I was reading the piece on Sylvia Baron as I posted that. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 102] Author : Katachresis Date : 23rd February 2006 12:24 PM I am going to ask you one more time to start your own thread. This thread is not about you or your claimed abilities. Kelly Thanks Kelly, for getting us back on topic. I've been trying to think of new ideas that might help, but haven't found anything yet. But I won’t stop. I'll check out your site, and can at least make a modest contribution. (I am presently under funded myself.) My heart goes out to you, your family, and to anyone else in similar circumstances. Last summer I read a book dealing with missing children. I had to stop one third through, as I would become too emotional, even while reading fiction. I hope that this thread has helped you, despite a few tangents that are almost inevitable in such a forum. There are good people here. People willing to actually help. Even if it’s only to have a place where you can explore your options, and spread awareness of the plight of others with missing relatives. Kevin -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 103] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 12:26 PM I have asked moderators if they could remove the posts made today from Wanderin and related to Wanderin. I also asked if they could place them on a new thread just for Wanderin. I don't know if that's possible, but as one person said, this thread had alot of good information pre-clutter. If you would please, do not respond to him. I am now trying to find the serious posts so that I may respond to those. Thank you! Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 104] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 12:34 PM Cora Baron, at it again. http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0206/2301_grinstead_family_tries_to_find_her.html Now preying upon Tara Grinstead's family. I believe they mean Carla Baron. This all becomes a vicious circle. No leads in the case=desperation on the part of the family. No leads also equals no media coverage which increases the desperation and leads to contacting these people. Someone on this forum contacts the authors of these media articles when they are posted online. They attempt to set them straight about psychics and the lack of evidence they do anything other than harming the families. I think this is an excellent idea. Here's a news article about this case: http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4538336&nav=5kZQ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 105] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 12:55 PM KellyJ, my heart goes out to you and your family. Have you thought of setting up an PayPal account for your site so people can make donations through that? Michael Hi Michael, There is a long and very detailed answer as to why we do not have a Paypal account set up. I know if we did, we would get more donations. To try to summarize: Each state has laws governing charitable organizations and the solicitation/acceptance of donations. There is a debate about whether an Internet presence, such as an org's website, constitutes a solicitation simply because of its existence. At this time, the governing entity of these states as it pertains to donations, has not made a ruling that a website is not a soliciation. Therefore, an org should comply to the rules of that state. Some states have lengthy applications and fees that must be paid in order to accept donations. The fees add up to about 1k, so we did not pursue that since we do not receive many donations. For example, In Utah, the fee is $100, but if no one from Utah ever donates, that is not a wise way to spend the public's money when we don't have much to begin with. Most orgs do not study this and will just put up a Paypal link. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 106] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 01:02 PM Kelly, I would like to apologise for de-railing earlier, and for my little emotional outburst. What you are doing is amazing, and I am sorry about the source of all the good work. I hope that some day you get closure of some kind. I think the ideas you have put forward are all excellent, and I wish I could offer some practical help. I'm not a debunker, or a psychiatrist, nor do I have any links I can offer to assist you. I am a budding writer however (unpublished), so perhaps I could write up something for you, if you would like. Perhaps I could look into the woman I mentioned earlier who won the tv show here in the UK. Her site claims that she has given help to various police forces in solving cases and tracing people, and shows letters from police forces about her input. A good article writer, in my opinion, is Tony Youens. You can see examples of his articles examining psychic performances at his site: http://www.tonyyouens.com/ and he is a regular poster here too. In my opinion he would be a good guest writer for you. Hi Cabby, No problem. Thanks for your kind words. I took a look at Tony's site and agree that he would be an excellent guest writer. I was going to write to him, but as always, I'm buried under a huge pile of work. If anyone wishes to write to him on my behalf, similar to Mariah's contacting Susan, I would be happy to delegate! I'd still like to see some action pertaining to my posts #71 & 72, so this would certainly help. If no one can/wants to take this on in respect to writing Tony, I will get to it eventually. I took the day off to try to get caught up on several things, one of them being the serious post and inquiries here. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 107] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 01:07 PM Kelly, if there's a way, can you get me some photos of your son and those you're looking for? If I can, while I'm out on the road, I'll see if anyone will post those pictures. Truck stops sometimes accept them, and I'll see if Cal Trans will allow them at rest areas. Ditto NDOT and other orgs. Maybe other drivers will take a few. It's not much, but if it helps, well, I'm willing. Hi Roadtoad, We have posters online of numerous missing persons, including my son. We encourage the public to go to these sites and print and place posters wherever they can....absolutely! Links to our poster campaign programs: http://www.projectjason.org/18wheel.html http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html If this doesn't work for you, PM or email me your snail mail address, and I will mail you whatever number you indicate. Thank you! Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 108] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 01:09 PM In terms of notable skeptics on the topic, Benjamin Radford from the Skeptical Inquirer just did an interview on the Point of Inquiry podcast on Psychics Detectives. It was a good interview, and he might be a good person talk to. Hope this helps. Would anyone want to contact Benjamin, or do you have a contact link for him? Thanks, Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 109] Author : The Central Scrutinizer Date : 23rd February 2006 01:11 PM Would anyone want to contact Benjamin, or do you have a contact link for him? Thanks, Kelly bradford@centerforinquiry.net (bradford@centerforinquiry.net) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 110] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 01:17 PM Kelly, Keep an eye out for when the TAM4 DVD comes out. Ben Radford had an excellent paper on the failure of psychic detectives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 111] Author : meg Date : 23rd February 2006 01:25 PM Mercutio: "KellyJ--a question, where you would have a better answer than most: Suppose we read in our local paper of a child who has gone missing. Would it be a reasonable or unreasonable idea to contact (perhaps a flyer by mail would be a fairly non-intrusive way?) them with information about the worthlessness of these predatory scum "psychics"? Perhaps with information about websites like yours, or some of the information from your (or another appropriate) site? I feel like I would want to contact them and say "send all such psychic volunteers to me, and I'll deal with them for you, so that you are not subjected to this torture", but I also realize that is somewhat insulting to them. And of course, doing nothing leaves this helpless feeling... Just an idea..." I think that's a very interesting idea, Mercutio. I, too have been reading this thread and getting an increasing feeling of helplessness and desparation. I'll respect whatever KellyJ's answer is as to whether it might be appropriate to contact these grieving stressed out parents directly. I'm wondering if somehow we could put together a site specifically as a resource for those of us that wish to help stop these "psychic" predators. Perhaps it could include samples of letters to be sent to newspapers, newstations, etc complaining when they post news about such&such psychics working on a case. Maybe even some kind of blanket warning statement to be aired when someone is reported as missing warning that these predators may come out at times like this seeking only to improve their own status, publicity or wealth, with links to skeptical sites that lay out the facts. Maybe even a resource kit to be sent to police stations, that they could pass on to victims, should it seem appropriate, that includes contact info for a local skeptic society that would offer to help them fend off these whackos...? Just throwing out some ideas. There is a meeting this weekend of our local skeptic society. I think maybe I'll go and see if there's any interest there. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 112] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd February 2006 01:36 PM I'd still like to see some action pertaining to my posts #71 & 72, so this would certainly help. If no one can/wants to take this on in respect to writing Tony, I will get to it eventually. For post #71, you can PM Linda and ask if what you want to do is acceptable to the Foundation. None of us can speak for JREF. But it looks good to me, and I don't think Linda will have any problem with it. Linda is aware of this topic, and supportive of your goals. So you won't need to give a long explanation. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 113] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 01:38 PM KellyJ--a question, where you would have a better answer than most: Suppose we read in our local paper of a child who has gone missing. Would it be a reasonable or unreasonable idea to contact (perhaps a flyer by mail would be a fairly non-intrusive way?) them with information about the worthlessness of these predatory scum "psychics"? Perhaps with information about websites like yours, or some of the information from your (or another appropriate) site? I feel like I would want to contact them and say "send all such psychic volunteers to me, and I'll deal with them for you, so that you are not subjected to this torture", but I also realize that is somewhat insulting to them. And of course, doing nothing leaves this helpless feeling... Just an idea... That is a very interesting and worthy idea. Not only does it make the family aware of these vipers early in the game before desperation mode sets in, but it also lets them know about the existence of organizations, such as ours. It is a fact, and a sad one, that in the majority of cases, LE (law enforcement) do NOT give the family of the missing a referral to a missing person organization. As most people do not know what actions to take when this happens, they will sit back, thinking LE is doing it all. In the cases of runaways and adults, sometimes LE does nothing! Time is a great enemy here, and families should be taking other steps immediately to find their loved one. Going back to the psychic issue, perhaps we should draft a one page letter that expresses our sorrow at the situation, and then moves into some basic steps to take info, and finally, cautions the family about psychics and provides links to the (future) blog series and our org. Members, upon seeing news about a missing person could see if the family's contact info is public and send them the letter. If it is not public, they could send it to the media outlet, and ask them to forward it. Doing the latter would educate them as well! Does that make sense? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 114] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd February 2006 01:47 PM That is a very interesting and worthy idea. Not only does it make the family aware of these vipers early in the game before desperation mode sets in, but it also lets them know about the existence of organizations, such as ours. It is a fact, and a sad one, that in the majority of cases, LE (law enforcement) do NOT give the family of the missing a referral to a missing person organization. As most people do not know what actions to take when this happens, they will sit back, thinking LE is doing it all. In the cases of runaways and adults, sometimes LE does nothing! Time is a great enemy here, and families should be taking other steps immediately to find their loved one. Going back to the psychic issue, perhaps we should draft a one page letter that expresses our sorrow at the situation, and then moves into some basic steps to take info, and finally, cautions the family about psychics and provides links to the (future) blog series and our org. Members, upon seeing news about a missing person could see if the family's contact info is public and send them the letter. If it is not public, they could send it to the media outlet, and ask them to forward it. Doing the latter would educate them as well! Does that make sense? Excellent. Warnings about "the second wave of predators". Terrific ideas here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 115] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 01:48 PM I think that's a very interesting idea, Mercutio. I, too have been reading this thread and getting an increasing feeling of helplessness and desparation. I'll respect whatever KellyJ's answer is as to whether it might be appropriate to contact these grieving stressed out parents directly. I'm wondering if somehow we could put together a site specifically as a resource for those of us that wish to help stop these "psychic" predators. Perhaps it could include samples of letters to be sent to newspapers, newstations, etc complaining when they post news about such&such psychics working on a case. Maybe even some kind of blanket warning statement to be aired when someone is reported as missing warning that these predators may come out at times like this seeking only to improve their own status, publicity or wealth, with links to skeptical sites that lay out the facts. Maybe even a resource kit to be sent to police stations, that they could pass on to victims, should it seem appropriate, that includes contact info for a local skeptic society that would offer to help them fend off these whackos...? Just throwing out some ideas. There is a meeting this weekend of our local skeptic society. I think maybe I'll go and see if there's any interest there. Meg I love this, Meg!! (and your chocolate, too) What an excellent idea. There might be some kind person out there who would donate space on a webserver, another person to buy/donate a domain name, and a 3rd person to act as webmaster. (or any combination therein) A talented webmaster knows how to get hits when the public looks up "missing persons", thus leading the families to the site. The resource kit is also a good idea, although I am skeptical that it would go beyond the hands of the recipient in many cases. I say this because I have fought for two years to get our local LE to give us as a resource when doing a case intake, I even then suggested that they give the two main orgs, National Center for Missing Adults (NCMA) and National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, (NCMEC) but they won't even do that. (See my post about this issue a few above this) CYA is what I think is going on there. CYA is more important to them than a life, apparently. Let's hear from others about this. I think it's awesome. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 116] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 01:56 PM I love this, Meg!! (and your chocolate, too) What an excellent idea. There might be some kind person out there who would donate space on a webserver, another person to buy/donate a domain name, and a 3rd person to act as webmaster. (or any combination therein) A talented webmaster knows how to get hits when the public looks up "missing persons", thus leading the families to the site. The resource kit is also a good idea, although I am skeptical that it would go beyond the hands of the recipient in many cases. I say this because I have fought for two years to get our local LE to give us as a resource when doing a case intake, I even then suggested that they give the two main orgs, National Center for Missing Adults (NCMA) and National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, (NCMEC) but they won't even do that. (See my post about this issue a few above this) CYA is what I think is going on there. CYA is more important to them than a life, apparently. Let's hear from others about this. I think it's awesome. I'm in for the domain and to webmaster it, but I can't develop a website for crap. any talented web developers willing to put something together for me to get up and running? What's the domain nam going to be? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 117] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 01:59 PM I'll design it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 118] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:02 PM I'll design it. Great. shoot me a PM when that's ready to go up. I'll work on the webspace and the dot com. So what's our domain name? Shall we have a forum on there for parents of missing kids? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 119] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:02 PM Wonderful! I think the name will be very important. It should somehow have missing persons in it. Let's brainstorm. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 120] Author : meg Date : 23rd February 2006 02:11 PM no-psychics.org psychic-proof.org psychic-help.org ??? oops. just now saw your comment about having missing persons in the name... I'll go think some more. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 121] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:12 PM Thanks Kelly, for getting us back on topic. I've been trying to think of new ideas that might help, but haven't found anything yet. But I won’t stop. I'll check out your site, and can at least make a modest contribution. (I am presently under funded myself.) My heart goes out to you, your family, and to anyone else in similar circumstances. Last summer I read a book dealing with missing children. I had to stop one third through, as I would become too emotional, even while reading fiction. I hope that this thread has helped you, despite a few tangents that are almost inevitable in such a forum. There are good people here. People willing to actually help. Even if it’s only to have a place where you can explore your options, and spread awareness of the plight of others with missing relatives. Kevin Thank you, Kevin. The thread is back on track and great things are happening. People like me and others in my place get an infusion of hope when people like you and the JREF members are willing to do things that make a difference. Even what one might think as a little thing, such as hanging a poster, can make a dark day brighter. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 122] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:15 PM Does anyone know if you can get an equal number of hits by having the name of the site, as opposed to the domain name, include "missing persons"? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 123] Author : Kochanski Date : 23rd February 2006 02:18 PM Wonderful! I think the name will be very important. It should somehow have missing persons in it. Let's brainstorm. How about Rational Resources for Missing Person Assistance -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 124] Author : Kochanski Date : 23rd February 2006 02:19 PM Does anyone know if you can get an equal number of hits by having the name of the site, as opposed to the domain name, include "missing persons"? I believe if you have keywords specified with the website you should get good hits from searches. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 125] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd February 2006 02:20 PM www.missingpersons.org is taken. www.missingpersons.com and www.missingpersons.net are taken but don't look like they are being actively used. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 126] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 02:22 PM Great. shoot me a PM when that's ready to go up. I'll work on the webspace and the dot com. First comes the information architecture. That depends on the content. Then, the design is done. No worries, I know what I'm doing. :) We will brainstorm with Kelly, and we'll reach a consensus on what the site should contain. Wonderful! I think the name will be very important. It should somehow have missing persons in it. Hmm....if you want it to be a single-missing-person site, sure. But if you want to reach a broader audience, it should be more general. But definitely hard-hitting. Let's not mince words here. Does anyone know if you can get an equal number of hits by having the name of the site, as opposed to the domain name, include "missing persons"? Don't worry about that. There are ways (ahemn) to ensure a high Goggle-hit. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 127] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:24 PM Shall we have a forum on there for parents of missing kids? This is good, too, however, I ask that we refer to the missing as "missing persons" rather than just missing children. There are literally a thousand resource sites for missing children, but few for the missing in general and/or missing adults. That leads to the desperation factor, as LE, media, and orgs provide less, and sometime no help at all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 128] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:27 PM Do you think this is too long? It does not appear to be taken. www.psychicsandmissingpersons.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 129] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:29 PM Do you think this is too long? It does not appear to be taken. www.psychicsandmissingpersons.com A little long, but easy to remember. You know, we could use the initials of the site's title. For example, for "Rational Response and Help for Families of Missing Persons" you could do RRHFMP.com or something like that. just an idea. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 130] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd February 2006 02:31 PM Do you think this is too long? It does not appear to be taken. www.psychicsandmissingpersons.com That name will attract a lot of believers in psychics. Imagine a hundred WanderinWTFs muddying the water... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 131] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:31 PM I also want to reiterate that aside from CFLarson's site we should definately have a forum on there where the families of missing persons can create a community base. Also, if you loko through my stupidly high post count, I relish in beating down woo trolls. Best of both worlds. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 132] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:32 PM That will attract a lot of believers in psychics. Imagine a hundred WanderinWTFs muddying the water... I think no matter what the name, the intent of the site will do that anyway. As for a hundred wanderingwtfs, bring it on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 133] Author : De_Bunk Date : 23rd February 2006 02:34 PM How about something like... PleaseComeHome.com / net / org DB -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 134] Author : Kochanski Date : 23rd February 2006 02:34 PM Do you think this is too long? It does not appear to be taken. www.psychicsandmissingpersons.com I would say that is spot on. Not too long. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 135] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:35 PM I would say that is spot on. Not too long. Shall I buy it then? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 136] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:36 PM I think no matter what the name, the intent of the site will do that anyway. As for a hundred wanderingwtfs, bring it on. Luke has a good point and is is something we should ponder. I do also agree that in the end, they'll come anyway, just as Wanderin came here. There could be a separate place for them to post so they would not pollute the other threads/subforums. The privacy of the families (if they were to post there) should be protected at all costs. I would not want them to be PMing family members, etc. That would be awful. Let's think this through. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 137] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:37 PM Luke has a good point and is is something we should ponder. I do also agree that in the end, they'll come anyway, just as Wanderin came here. There could be a separate place for them to post so they would not pollute the other threads/subforums. The privacy of the families (if they were to post there) should be protected at all costs. I would not want them to be PMing family members, etc. That would be awful. Let's think this through. It's all in the membership agreement we come up with. We can explicitly state that this is not a forum to offer services or prove psychic abilities. When that's violated, they're gone and the post buried. ETA: Except for something akin to a flame wars section where they can duke it out. A sort of subforum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 138] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 02:39 PM A little long, but easy to remember. You know, we could use the initials of the site's title. For example, for "Rational Response and Help for Families of Missing Persons" you could do RRHFMP.com or something like that. just an idea. If you want an acronym, it has to be catchy and pronounceable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 139] Author : meg Date : 23rd February 2006 02:40 PM what about www.twicevictims.org - referring to that quote posted about how these people are being victimized twice? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 140] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd February 2006 02:40 PM The last thing the family of a missing person needs when they come to a website designed to help them avoid predators is to be pounced on by a pack of wolves like Wanderin. The name should say it all. www.secondwavepredators.com, or .org. And anyone who solicits should be immediately banned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 141] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd February 2006 02:41 PM what about www.twicevictims.org - referring to that quote posted about how these people are being victimized twice? Great minds think alike. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 142] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:41 PM It's all in the membership agreement we come up with. We can explicitly state that this is not a forum to offer services or prove psychic abilities. When that's violated, they're gone and the post buried. ETA: Except for something akin to a flame wars section where they can duke it out. A sort of subforum. Family members and believers in the general public can lurk and watch the action. Everyone will learn something, that is except for the diehard types. I say buy the domain, but I'm not the queen diva here. :rolleyes: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 143] Author : The Central Scrutinizer Date : 23rd February 2006 02:41 PM How about http://www.psychicscannotfindmissingpersons.com/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 144] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 02:42 PM Shall I buy it then? Let's sleep on this. That's always a good idea. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 145] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 02:42 PM The last two names presented by Luke and Meg are worthy. I'm thinking....... Edited to say I agree with Claus. Editing to further state that perhaps it should be left clean, meaning that it's a place to present the info to the families, period. Psychics could be referred to this forum to do their sparring.That may be the best option. Family members who want to observe this here could as lurkers if they wish. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 146] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:44 PM Let's sleep on this. That's always a good idea. ;) What's this "sleep" you speak of? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 147] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:48 PM Family members and believers in the general public can lurk and watch the action. Everyone will learn something, that is except for the diehard types. I say buy the domain, but I'm not the queen diva here. :rolleyes: Sure you are. :) Chck your private message for my email and phone #. you Claus and I can talk more about this and work the whole thing out. I have no problem being a forum admin for this site and aggressively enforcing that we do not tolerate trolls like wandering. Plus, I've got the time and the motivation. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 148] Author : Hawk one Date : 23rd February 2006 02:48 PM Luke has a good point and is is something we should ponder. I do also agree that in the end, they'll come anyway, just as Wanderin came here. There could be a separate place for them to post so they would not pollute the other threads/subforums. The privacy of the families (if they were to post there) should be protected at all costs. I would not want them to be PMing family members, etc. That would be awful. Let's think this through. Having a set of at least 5 strict moderators will be required no matter what name you take. Speaking of which, I volunteer for modding. It's about the only thing I can contribute with, and I have the spare time for it. Of course, don't bother thinking too much about that kind of detail yet, as it's still a bit far in the future. ;) Edited to clarify post. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 149] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 02:51 PM psychicsdonotsolvecrimes -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 150] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:51 PM www.psychicfrauds.com Is that taken? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 151] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 02:52 PM What's this "sleep" you speak of? An imaginary concept, I know. But I have heard of people who actually do it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 152] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 02:53 PM www.psychicfrauds.com Is that taken? You better have the evidence that is strong enough to hold up in court. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 153] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:54 PM You better have the evidence that is strong enough to hold up in court. Good point, we don't want to get hit with libel lawsuits. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 154] Author : The_Fire Date : 23rd February 2006 02:55 PM www.psychicpredators.com (http://www.psychicpredators.com) ? Shameless plug: CFLarsen: I'm in training (finishes at dec 01 this year) as a webintegrator at Medieskolerne in Viborg. Let me know if I can help. Knows ASP classic with Access and are currently making good headway on PHP/Mysql (ETA: Login systems are currently giving me a headache). Also knows CSS, XHTML etc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 155] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 02:56 PM www.psychicpredators.com ? Shameless plug: CFLarsen: I'm in training (finishes at dec 01 this year) as a webintegrator at Medieskolerne in Viborg. Let me know if I can help. Knows ASP classic with Access and are currently making good headway on PHP/Mysql. Also knows CSS, XHTML etc. Thanks Fire. When I set up the forum software, I may email you some questions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 156] Author : The_Fire Date : 23rd February 2006 03:02 PM Fowlsound: I'll help in anyway I can. Maybe I can get some of the other guys interested as well. A couple of them are downright scary when it comes to code.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 157] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 03:05 PM www.psychicpredators.com (http://www.psychicpredators.com) ? Good one! CFLarsen: I'm in training (finishes at dec 01 this year) as a webintegrator at Medieskolerne in Viborg. Let me know if I can help. Gotcha. Knows ASP classic with Access and are currently making good headway on PHP/Mysql (ETA: Login systems are currently giving me a headache). Also knows CSS, XHTML etc. Ewwwl.....(makes sign of cross to fight off heretics) :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 158] Author : The_Fire Date : 23rd February 2006 03:09 PM Let me guess: Its got to do with microblows and Asp? :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 159] Author : CFLarsen Date : 23rd February 2006 03:12 PM Let me guess: Its got to do with microblows and Asp? :D No, no, it's a religious thing. ;) "psychicpredators" is excellent. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 160] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 03:12 PM Sure you are. :) Chck your private message for my email and phone #. you Claus and I can talk more about this and work the whole thing out. I have no problem being a forum admin for this site and aggressively enforcing that we do not tolerate trolls like wandering. Plus, I've got the time and the motivation. I'll try you again in a bit. So many good ideas flowing here. I'm still a bit torn between having a clean site and the forum since this one exists. I believe that I have caught up on older posts with questions for me or other items I need to comment on. If I forgot one, remind me, and accept my apology. I'm taking a break from the PC...been on it all day long. I'll be back later on. This is what it's all about...working together for a common cause. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. (not literally, of course!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 161] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 03:20 PM I'll try you again in a bit. So many good ideas flowing here. I'm still a bit torn between having a clean site and the forum since this one exists. I believe that I have caught up on older posts with questions for me or other items I need to comment on. If I forgot one, remind me, and accept my apology. I'm taking a break from the PC...been on it all day long. I'll be back later on. This is what it's all about...working together for a common cause. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. (not literally, of course!) HOly crap that was fast! You gotta give me time to turn my ringer on! Ok, best times to call me are after 11:30pm CST or between 9am CST and 1:00pm CST. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 162] Author : Katachresis Date : 23rd February 2006 03:20 PM Good, take a rest, Kelly. You've had a long day. BTW, I've never been more proud to be part of the JREF family than today. Kisses to the girls, and handshakes to the guys. Bravo. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 163] Author : ObscureReferenceMan Date : 23rd February 2006 03:23 PM I'll try you again in a bit. I'm still a bit torn between having a clean site and the forum since this one exists. Kelly, et al, You should definitely have a forum at your new site. The kinds of things people will post there will be quite different from what is posted here. BTW, you guys rule! If I had something worthwhile to offer, I would. Once it's up, maybe I'll join the forum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 164] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 03:27 PM Kelly, et al, You should definitely have a forum at your new site. The kinds of things people will post there will be quite different from what is posted here. BTW, you guys rule! If I had something worthwhile to offer, I would. Once it's up, maybe I'll join the forum. I Agree. The JREF forums are a very well established and productive community, but while there is an overlap of intention between the JREF forum and a forum that would be on the new website, they are two different motivations and two different approaches. I think a forum, properly moderated, on that site would be a very amazing thing, especially considering we could build an online community of those who have missing loved ones that would be not only productive and helpful, but well grounded. It would be a very powerful forum to read. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 165] Author : Mercutio Date : 23rd February 2006 03:32 PM KellyJ (and the rest here)-- I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes. Anyone who would prefer I not use their comments (I'll probably change names anyway, since something like "fowlsound" might be seen as distracting from the serious nature), please let me know (PM is fine). Katachresis, I second your comment; this is a good thing to be part of. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 166] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 03:34 PM KellyJ (and the rest here)-- I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes. Anyone who would prefer I not use their comments (I'll probably change names anyway, since something like "fowlsound" might be seen as distracting from the serious nature), please let me know (PM is fine). Katachresis, I second your comment; this is a good thing to be part of. You have my permission as long as you change my name to "The Exhalted God-Like Hotness That Is David." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 167] Author : The_Fire Date : 23rd February 2006 03:35 PM Permission granted. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 168] Author : Mercutio Date : 23rd February 2006 03:35 PM You have my permission as long as you change my name to "The Exhalted God-Like Hotness That Is David." Done. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 169] Author : Hawk one Date : 23rd February 2006 03:35 PM Even though I only made one single measly post with a single measly offer, you can print out that if you want to, Merc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 170] Author : HeyLeroy Date : 23rd February 2006 04:13 PM Fowlsound, CFLarsen, The_Fire, you guys just keep giving me more reasons to admire you all. KellyJ, I think you've come to the right place. Roadtoad gave me an idea. I live in a border town, (Windsor, Ontario, North America's busiest crossing) and there's a truck-stop just around the corner from where I work. I'd be happy to put up a flier there, if you'd like. Not much, I know, but anything to help. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 171] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 04:19 PM Fowlsound, CFLarsen, The_Fire, you guys just keep giving me more reasons to admire you all. KellyJ, I think you've come to the right place. Roadtoad gave me an idea. I live in a border town, (Windsor, Ontario, North America's busiest crossing) and there's a truck-stop just around the corner from where I work. I'd be happy to put up a flier there, if you'd like. Not much, I know, but anything to help. Heh. I used to live in Detroit. You should also contact the border patrol and ask if they will accept a photo of the missing person and watch for them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 172] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 06:05 PM KellyJ (and the rest here)-- I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes. Anyone who would prefer I not use their comments (I'll probably change names anyway, since something like "fowlsound" might be seen as distracting from the serious nature), please let me know (PM is fine). Katachresis, I second your comment; this is a good thing to be part of. I don't have a problem with it. I am curious though, as to what type of class it is that this thread would be discussed. On another interelated topic: I sent my inquiry/request out to the families of the missing. I've had several positive responses and indications that stories will be forthcoming. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 173] Author : HeyLeroy Date : 23rd February 2006 06:06 PM Heh. I used to live in Detroit. You should also contact the border patrol and ask if they will accept a photo of the missing person and watch for them. Good idea. I have friends who work at Customs on this side of the border. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 174] Author : Blackwell Date : 23rd February 2006 06:20 PM Thread Title : Web stuff KellyJ, Hello and welcome to the forum! As a father of three, I can only imagine what you've had to go through in the last few years. I'd love to help in any little way I can. Fowl, Larsen - I'm a graphic/web designer, so if there's anything I can help with, let me know. I'm less technically minded than creative - I know a little scripting (for forms, etc - just enough to be dangerous), but I've been a graphic designer for almost 20 years. A note on the domain name - whatever you decide on, if someone thinks of another domain worth snapping up before someone else gets their hands on it (psychicsarelyingfilthyfraudsandshouldrotinthelowestdepthsofhell.com has a nice ring to it), you can always buy it, too, and redirect to the main site. Domains certainly are cheap enough now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 175] Author : Roadtoad Date : 23rd February 2006 06:22 PM Okay, as soon as I replace an ink cartridge, we're in business. Expect a report, Kelly, as soon as I can get something up and running. Damn, I'm proud of this crowd. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 176] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd February 2006 06:28 PM Psychics are not the only ones who prey on these people, so I don't know if psychicpredators.com or anything with psychics in the title is a good idea. The site should also touch on predatory private investigators, lawyers, media, etc. I know as JREF members, and looking at the topic we are in and so on, we tend to focus more on paranormal frauds, but the web site in question is going to be focused on protecting these people from ALL frauds. Right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 177] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 06:29 PM As far as I understood, this website is specifically about the psychic frauds. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 178] Author : meg Date : 23rd February 2006 07:10 PM So I'm thinking about content a little bit here. I'm kind of imagining a site that works in conjunction with Kelly's and other missing persons sites as a resource for support for 1. Persons that have a missing loved one and are considering whether to let psychic's help in the investigation or not. Facts, informational articles in general about how psychics don't do anything useful, articles relating stories by victims of psychics, lots and lots of links to other good information already out there. Stuff aimed at the general public as an audience, and as family members of missing people as an audience. and 2. Skeptics that wish to work as support for 1 by actively debunking psychics attempting to prey on 1, as well as doing some community work promoting the word in general that psychics are fakes. Articles about debunking (how to kind of stuff) psychic detectives, perhaps. Simple test protocols, maybe? Sample letter templates for sending to news media, elected officials, police chiefs, etc, for use when news releases come out that "xxx psychic is currently working closely with the xxx police department on xxx case". Lots and lots of links to other good information out there, and to here. Just kind of brainstorming here. Feel free to pick this all apart. Is the forum in support of audience 1 or 2? Or both? Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 179] Author : Ducky Date : 23rd February 2006 07:11 PM Choice 1 seems most in line with what Kelly and I have talked about. I think we should stick with that.; -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 180] Author : Hawk one Date : 23rd February 2006 07:18 PM Psychics are not the only ones who prey on these people, so I don't know if psychicpredators.com or anything with psychics in the title is a good idea. The site should also touch on predatory private investigators, lawyers, media, etc. I know as JREF members, and looking at the topic we are in and so on, we tend to focus more on paranormal frauds, but the web site in question is going to be focused on protecting these people from ALL frauds. Right? Luke: I thought the same as fowl, that the site was to be only about "psychics". And to expand a bit, psychics are being singled out here because unlike PIs and lawyers, -all- psychics are per definitions predators. Of course, I do understand that it could be a good thing to warn about the "bad apples" of other groups as well, but I would think that for now, let's focus on the worst of the worst, and see if we can put in that other stuff later. And even though I agree that such a site could touch upon the dangers of f.ex. a bad PI, I think that as long as the main issue (i.e. 90% or more of the content) is about the dangers of psychics, this justifies a domain name with "psychic" in it. Edited to put in quote from Luke, so it's clear who I'm responding to. And to fix some bad language. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 181] Author : Mercutio Date : 23rd February 2006 07:45 PM I don't have a problem with it. I am curious though, as to what type of class it is that this thread would be discussed. The class attempts to use a particular approach to...changing the world. Your thread here will serve as an example of how one person can make a difference...and how much can be accomplished when that one person is able to get other knowledgeable people to offer their assistance. (I can tell you more about this if you wish, but I would prefer PM, so as not to derail this thread.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 182] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd February 2006 09:29 PM Luke: I thought the same as fowl, that the site was to be only about "psychics". And to expand a bit, psychics are being singled out here because unlike PIs and lawyers, -all- psychics are per definitions predators. Of course, I do understand that it could be a good thing to warn about the "bad apples" of other groups as well, but I would think that for now, let's focus on the worst of the worst, and see if we can put in that other stuff later. I agree with starting with the core. Later on the others can be added. For future reference, does anyone know of any articles about the other scammers or a checklist of sorts that covers what to look for? Meg also has some good ideas that I want to think about. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 183] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 12:40 AM The class attempts to use a particular approach to...changing the world. Your thread here will serve as an example of how one person can make a difference...and how much can be accomplished when that one person is able to get other knowledgeable people to offer their assistance. (I can tell you more about this if you wish, but I would prefer PM, so as not to derail this thread.) I don't want to derail the thread either, and appreciate your thoughtfulness in regards to that matter. Assuming you are referring to me, (bolded text) I thank you for the honor, and respectfully defer it to my son. If it were not for him, I would not be doing this work. I know that wherever he is, he wholeheartedly approves. I'm also quite happy with the way this has gone. Maybe Sylvia (Ick) Browne did do something good, although not intentionally. Had it not been for researching her "work" on the Internet, I would not have come across the Million Dollar Challenge, and then this forum. Cheers to all! :clap: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 184] Author : CFLarsen Date : 24th February 2006 02:26 AM KellyJ (and the rest here)-- I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes. "For a price, Ugarte. For a price." (Go ahead, I just wanted to quote Humphrey Bogart in "Casablanca"...) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 185] Author : chillzero Date : 24th February 2006 06:06 AM Thread Title : Can I make a suggestion? Can I please make a modest suggestion for the domain name? How about Rational Action for Missing Persons. It can be abbreviated to RAMP, which has several connotations - ramp up the effort, using a ramp to negotiate humps (hump = UK for bad times), and some others. I agree with those saying that the mention of psychics should be withheld from the title - I think if I ever needed to find this kind of resource I would exclude 'psychic' from my search criteria. Also - I'm about to send Tony Youens a PM now, to direct his attention here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 186] Author : Mariah Date : 24th February 2006 06:14 AM Thread Title : NOVA: Secrets of the Psychics--video featuring Randi KellyJ and everyone: If you don't already own this excellent NOVA epsiode featuring Randi and some of the world's best psychics of the time (mid seventies) consider purchasing a copy via the Amazon link below or via the Randi site. It contains the section of the episode where Johnny Carson helped Randi debunk Uri Geller, and it has several scenes where Russia's best psychics of the time are exposed. One scene shows clearly how deceived the psychics themselves were--a real must-see. Purchasing it would be like a high-five to Randi, and will help keep it in print. I've watched its sales level rise as some of us have gone in and reviewed it. I think it shows what Randi is really about--helping people identify and avoid the tricks of these people. I've found nothing that SHOWS how psychics work better. I believe it's well worth the modest price to have it in your collection. As I've recommended before on the forum, buy a copy and see if your local library will add it to their collection. As I gradually revamp my website to promote critical thinking, I'm going to make it a featured recommendation. Remember, people will view a video who would never read one of Randi's books. I'm for getting that video out there. ---Sherry A ("Mariah") http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304463189/sr=8-1/qid=1140785372/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3907182-6318250?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 187] Author : Roadtoad Date : 24th February 2006 06:36 AM I like the idea of calling the site/org RAMP. I would add that if a database of missing person files could be added, in PDF format, it would help get the message out further, ideally by making people aware of those missing. Either that, or link to those groups that already have flyers available, such as Kelly's done. Meanwhile, let me see if I can contact some Bears I know. They might be willing to read through this, and offer some help, too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 188] Author : Mariah Date : 24th February 2006 09:45 AM Correction: NOVA: Secrets of the Psychics video featuring Randi. I was wrong. This video is from 1993, not the 70s as I put in the earlier post. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 189] Author : CFLarsen Date : 24th February 2006 10:29 AM Tsk. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 190] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 12:10 PM Can I please make a modest suggestion for the domain name? How about Rational Action for Missing Persons. It can be abbreviated to RAMP, which has several connotations - ramp up the effort, using a ramp to negotiate humps (hump = UK for bad times), and some others. I agree with those saying that the mention of psychics should be withheld from the title - I think if I ever needed to find this kind of resource I would exclude 'psychic' from my search criteria. Also - I'm about to send Tony Youens a PM now, to direct his attention here. Thanks for sending the PM, Cabby. I liked RAMP, but www.ramp.com appears to be parked at godaddy.com. Darn! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 191] Author : CFLarsen Date : 24th February 2006 12:12 PM Kelly, You got mail. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 192] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 12:13 PM KellyJ and everyone: If you don't already own this excellent NOVA epsiode featuring Randi and some of the world's best psychics of the time (mid seventies) consider purchasing a copy via the Amazon link below or via the Randi site. It contains the section of the episode where Johnny Carson helped Randi debunk Uri Geller, and it has several scenes where Russia's best psychics of the time are exposed. One scene shows clearly how deceived the psychics themselves were--a real must-see. Purchasing it would be like a high-five to Randi, and will help keep it in print. I've watched its sales level rise as some of us have gone in and reviewed it. I think it shows what Randi is really about--helping people identify and avoid the tricks of these people. I've found nothing that SHOWS how psychics work better. I believe it's well worth the modest price to have it in your collection. As I've recommended before on the forum, buy a copy and see if your local library will add it to their collection. As I gradually revamp my website to promote critical thinking, I'm going to make it a featured recommendation. Remember, people will view a video who would never read one of Randi's books. I'm for getting that video out there. ---Sherry A ("Mariah") http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304463189/sr=8-1/qid=1140785372/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3907182-6318250?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance I think this would be good to have for another reason: We could loan it to a family who is sitting on the fence about this issue. Thanks, Mariah. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 193] Author : Mariah Date : 24th February 2006 12:17 PM Thanks, Kelly. Also, I should add that it was actually made in 1993, not in the mid-seventies, which I keep trying to tell CFLarsen, who just does NOT seem to get it! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 194] Author : Katachresis Date : 24th February 2006 12:23 PM Hi Kelly, re: Missing Children Notice Program I got this today: Hi Kevin, Per you comments below, I agree that the PowerPoint presentation GSA provides for use in kiosks in the main lobby of GSA-owned Federal buildings throughout the nation should be easily viewed by those wishing to view the presentation. The GSA building managers of GSA-owned buildings would probably be the best persons to address this type of concern to. I would suggest that you get in touch with the X Building manager, Michael xxxxxx at (xxx) xxx-xxxx or by email at xxxxxx.xxxxxxx@gsa.gov (xxxxxx.xxxxxxx@gsa.gov). He should be able to address the issue of how the kiosk is arranged in the xxx Building. I've cc'd Mr. x in on this email. I hope this helps. If you have any further comments and/or suggestions, especially regarding how to improve the GSA Missing Child Notice Program, please let me know. Thanks. Michael Saling Information Technology Specialist GSA Missing Child Notice Program Webmaster U.S. General Services Administration Public Buildings Service Heartland Region Kansas City, Missouri (ETA: this is what is essentially shown 15 feet in the air: http://r6.gsa.gov/pbs/kids/default-1024x768.asp ) I've emailed the local administator of the video screen, haven't heard back. Also, I was able to post Jerald Gelb at the Shelter, and left my info, but haven't heard from the person in charge of the board yet either. I'll work on both fronts again Monday. Have a good weekend if we don't talk again. Kevin -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 195] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 12:39 PM I like the idea of calling the site/org RAMP. I would add that if a database of missing person files could be added, in PDF format, it would help get the message out further, ideally by making people aware of those missing. Either that, or link to those groups that already have flyers available, such as Kelly's done. Meanwhile, let me see if I can contact some Bears I know. They might be willing to read through this, and offer some help, too. Unfortunately, a database of missing persons would be too monumental of a task. If you ever go to the NCMEC or NCMA sites, you'll think it astonishing the number of missing persons there. That, however, is a mere drop in the bucket. Because of the issue I mentioned yesterday in regards to LE not giving referrals to families when the report is taken, the majority of cases never show up on these sites. For example, in my home state, Nebraska, there are approx. 700 open missing person's cases, but there are only 11 listings of missing persons shown on the NE pages for NCMA and NCMEC. They say that every 30 seconds in the USA a child disappears, and who knows how many adults. Anyway, off the soap box now and back to the site ideas. What I am thinking for starters consists of the following: An introductory/purpose statement Links to articles/papers debunking psychics, particularly as it relates to missing persons Link to this forum Liinks to worthy missing person's organization (You might be shocked to know that there are predators right here in the midst of our cause.) A Steps to Take list for families of the missing just in case they have come across this site before some of the others Am I missing something? Oh, and going back to some things discussed earlier by Meg and others, an idea that is brewing is to have a brief online form that a family member can fill out if they want to discuss or refer a particular psychic to volunteers from this forum who could gently show them the error of their ways. I'm still thinking this one out. One family I know has a person who handles all psychic inquiries. I believe they filter out the nutcases, but I don't know what they do about the others. I do suspect this person is a believer, so maybe they work with the psychic to gather info. Obviously, that is not the approach we would take. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 196] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 12:41 PM Kelly, You got mail. I do? Where? Nothing in email from you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 197] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 12:46 PM Hi Kelly, re: Missing Children Notice Program I got this today: Hi Kevin, Per you comments below, I agree that the PowerPoint presentation GSA provides for use in kiosks in the main lobby of GSA-owned Federal buildings throughout the nation should be easily viewed by those wishing to view the presentation. The GSA building managers of GSA-owned buildings would probably be the best persons to address this type of concern to. I would suggest that you get in touch with the X Building manager, Michael xxxxxx at (xxx) xxx-xxxx or by email at xxxxxx.xxxxxxx@gsa.gov (xxxxxx.xxxxxxx@gsa.gov). He should be able to address the issue of how the kiosk is arranged in the xxx Building. I've cc'd Mr. x in on this email. I hope this helps. If you have any further comments and/or suggestions, especially regarding how to improve the GSA Missing Child Notice Program, please let me know. Thanks. Michael Saling Information Technology Specialist GSA Missing Child Notice Program Webmaster U.S. General Services Administration Public Buildings Service Heartland Region Kansas City, Missouri (ETA: this is what is essentially shown 15 feet in the air: http://r6.gsa.gov/pbs/kids/default-1024x768.asp ) I've emailed the local administator of the video screen, haven't heard back. Also, I was able to post Jerald Gelb at the Shelter, and left my info, but haven't heard from the person in charge of the board yet either. I'll work on both fronts again Monday. Have a good weekend if we don't talk again. Kevin If anyone is curious, one of the things that Kevin is doing is trying to involve his local homeless shelter in our Come Home program. He posted one of the campaign posters at the shelter and gave them information about the program. http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html Thanks, Kevin! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 198] Author : CFLarsen Date : 24th February 2006 12:50 PM I do? Where? Nothing in email from you. Oops. There's a little button that says "Send". It helps clicking on that. Now you do. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 199] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 12:55 PM The issues with attracting even more vermin needs to be dicussed. In my writings, I will make it clear that we are not going to become an agency that investigates psychic's claims. I can imagine it getting very out of hand. I will nip it in the bud by letting them know that their emails will be deleted. At the same time, I don't want to give the appearance of not being open to the possibility. This may keep fence sitters from becoming defensive towards us. That may buy time to dazzle them with logic and facts. Here's my idea on the latter: I will encourage those persons to come here and post their claims. That is, if the members here are ok with me referring them here. I would say something such as: "We understand that many people believe that psychics are effective in solving crimes and finding missing people. Please keep in mind that the goal of this series is to help families understand techniques used by persons making these claims and make better decisions about the use of psychics. Project Jason and its volunteers cannot act as a clearinghouse for persons claiming success in using paranormal means to locate missing persons. We will be unable to respond to emails or other correspondence sent to us from persons making these claims or persons offering information about or referrals to psychics. We instead invite those persons to present their evidence to the members of the James Randi Education Foundation. They have a forum available for you to discuss your claims. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7 " Would that be acceptable to the members and the foundation? I received word from a representative of the foundation that this is perfectly fine with them. (This discussion was in relation to my blog series.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 200] Author : CFLarsen Date : 24th February 2006 12:56 PM Thanks, Kelly. Also, I should add that it was actually made in 1993, not in the mid-seventies, which I keep trying to tell CFLarsen, who just does NOT seem to get it! You are walking a fine line. :p -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 201] Author : Mariah Date : 24th February 2006 01:01 PM You are walking a fine line. :p I'm too fat to walk a fine line. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 202] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 05:36 PM Good news! I just spoke to Marc Klaas' right hand man, and he is sure Marc will participate in the blog series, although we can't say to what degree because of his busy schedule. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 203] Author : rjh01 Date : 24th February 2006 06:42 PM Apologies if this is slightly off topic. What does happen to people who disappear? As for a name keep it slightly vague so that it does not become meaningless when you expand a little eg QANTAS - Queensland and Northern Tertiary Airline Service is an example where they failed to heed this advice. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 204] Author : Mariah Date : 24th February 2006 06:53 PM Wonderful news, Kelly! Yes, that's great news! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 205] Author : Kelly Date : 24th February 2006 09:57 PM Apologies if this is slightly off topic. What does happen to people who disappear? As for a name keep it slightly vague so that it does not become meaningless when you expand a little eg QANTAS - Queensland and Northern Tertiary Airline Service is an example where they failed to heed this advice. NO one has stats on what happened to the missing persons. Stats on adults are not required to be kept by LE. Stats on children are, but in my surveys, I found this wasn't always happening either. When I speak of these stats, I am talking about new cases entered. No one keeps stats on who ranaway vs who was abducted, etc when the case if resolved. Up front, (going from memory) I think that 80% are called runaways, 17% are parental abductions, and 3% are non-family kidnappings. These stats are children only. Sadly, almost all but the younger children are pegged as runaways in absence of proof, so the 80% figure is not correct. We just don't know what is correct. I believe we are going to go with www.psychicpredators.com but thank you for the idea. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 206] Author : AOK Tiger Date : 25th February 2006 06:26 AM rjh01... You got your QANTAS acronym slightly wrong. As for a name keep it slightly vague so that it does not become meaningless when you expand a little eg QANTAS - Queensland and Northern Tertiary Airline Service is an example where they failed to heed this advice. But when it means "Queensland and Northern Territory (a state and territory in Australia) Airline Service" it probably makes a little more sense? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 207] Author : Kelly Date : 25th February 2006 07:41 AM I have received a family's story about Sylvia Browne and the Montel Show in which they, apparently, retaped her portion after the fact. Would anyone want to write a guest piece for the blog series about TV psychics and the tricks they use? It would include editing, audience plants, use of earpices, hidden microphones, etc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 208] Author : ObscureReferenceMan Date : 25th February 2006 08:27 AM Would anyone want to write a guest piece for the blog series about TV psychics and the tricks they use? It would include editing, audience plants, use of earpices, hidden microphones, etc. Kelly, If you need anyone to infiltrate any of the New York based TV shows (like Montel), let me know. I'm just a few train stops away. And I love the thought of being an "inside man". :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 209] Author : Kelly Date : 25th February 2006 08:39 AM Kelly, If you need anyone to infiltrate any of the New York based TV shows (like Montel), let me know. I'm just a few train stops away. And I love the thought of being an "inside man". :D That would be fun to do, but unless some family member is going to be on the show and tells me, I don't know when they are having a missing person segment. What I do know is that traditionally, SB does a Wednesday show. I did hear that they are not having her do missing person readings at this time. (That may have been her demand.) They were also on seasonal hiatus, and I believe are to return this week. http://www.montelshow.com/misc/tickets/ is the page about getting tickets to go, and you'd almost have to see if they would tell you which taping is going to be with her. If everything goes right, I would like to start my blog series on 3/6, and depending on how many stories I get, it could go on for a week, maybe 10 days. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 210] Author : The_Fire Date : 25th February 2006 08:47 AM I actually think that getting testimonys from people with experience of the non-results of the frauds is a good idea. Maybe the new site could have an article section for this purpose? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 211] Author : Kelly Date : 25th February 2006 09:06 AM I actually think that getting testimonys from people with experience of the non-results of the frauds is a good idea. Maybe the new site could have an article section for this purpose? This is an excellent idea and I'm sure we will do this over time. I'm not getting very many stories at this point. I am wondering if it is because people are A) embarassed to admit they used psychics B) afraid the psychic will sue them C) doesn't want to appear to have closed the door to psychics in case they're for real and one of them could help find their missing loved one D) feels it is a private issue/decision E) something else I am not thinking of -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 212] Author : Gr8wight Date : 25th February 2006 09:51 PM I'm not getting very many stories at this point. I am wondering if it is because people are A) embarassed to admit they used psychics B) afraid the psychic will sue them C) doesn't want to appear to have closed the door to psychics in case they're for real and one of them could help find their missing loved one D) feels it is a private issue/decision E) something else I am not thinking of Many people who use psychics and get no results make their own excuses for the psychics' failure. Psychics are experts at emotional manipulation. They convince their 'marks' of their own good intentions, often spinning extensive stories of how they have gone through hardship in order to 'help' the people. I would be willing to bet that a lot of the people who have used psychics, even though they have not had any results, feel kindly towards the psychic (or at least some kind of obligation) and do not want to say anything bad about them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 213] Author : Kelly Date : 26th February 2006 03:22 PM Many people who use psychics and get no results make their own excuses for the psychics' failure. Psychics are experts at emotional manipulation. They convince their 'marks' of their own good intentions, often spinning extensive stories of how they have gone through hardship in order to 'help' the people. I would be willing to bet that a lot of the people who have used psychics, even though they have not had any results, feel kindly towards the psychic (or at least some kind of obligation) and do not want to say anything bad about them. I hadn't thought of this, but it does make sense. It's a relative to the odd dependency relationship between an abductor and the abducted. (There is a name for this syndrome, but it alludes me right now.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 214] Author : Mercutio Date : 26th February 2006 03:24 PM Stockholm syndrome. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 215] Author : Mercutio Date : 26th February 2006 03:30 PM I had a friend who died young, and whose parents, when prayer failed to bring him back to life, blamed themselves for their lack of faith. This was without prodding from some other party. If the psychic fails to find a child, any doubting at all by the parent may be seized upon by the parasite, to actively cast blame on the parent, induce guilt to motivate further payment, and to keep the leech's record intact. I think that, once you have a few stories up there, people will see the extent to which the vultures have lied to them, and will eventually open up and share their own stories of victimization by these tapeworms. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 216] Author : Kelly Date : 26th February 2006 03:50 PM I had a friend who died young, and whose parents, when prayer failed to bring him back to life, blamed themselves for their lack of faith. I know a woman who says if you pray hard enough, you'll get the answers. I find it insulting. This was without prodding from some other party. If the psychic fails to find a child, any doubting at all by the parent may be seized upon by the parasite, to actively cast blame on the parent, induce guilt to motivate further payment, and to keep the leech's record intact.. In one of my own stories, which I will lead with, this very thing happened. I was appalled that the psychic would try to turn my own family member against me. I think that, once you have a few stories up there, people will see the extent to which the vultures have lied to them, and will eventually open up and share their own stories of victimization by these tapeworms. I have one story submitted, and 4 others promised. Perhaps after seeing mine, some will come clean about it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 217] Author : Roadtoad Date : 26th February 2006 03:53 PM If John Walsh hadn't decided there might be some value in "psychics," he had a great story in his book Tears of Rage, which pretty much summed it all up. I'll post the pertinent points here if it's legal, and appropriate. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 218] Author : prewitt81 Date : 26th February 2006 05:11 PM I'd like to help in any way possible. This summer marks 10 years since my cousin Morgan Violi (http://www.robertsonsheriff.com/special/Violi.htm) was kidnapped and murdered. I remember vividly when my aunt was told that a psychic was interested in the case. I wasn't the hardcore skeptic that I am now, but I never bought into psychic phenomena. I wanted to speak up against the idea, but decided that it wasn't my place. I've regretted it ever since. I'd like the opportunity to redeem myself. I'll mod a forum, if you have it, or anything else that I could do to help (even if it's just to donate money). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 219] Author : Roadtoad Date : 26th February 2006 05:20 PM The weird thing about what you posted, prewitt, is that the suspect looks like a guy I used to work with. (Except the dude I worked with had no chin, and drove a very late model Dodge pickup.) I doubt it's the same person, but then, you never can tell. I'll keep an eye peeled. If he's killed once, he'll do it again. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 220] Author : prewitt81 Date : 26th February 2006 05:23 PM I had a hard time letting go of the concept of Hell simply because this guy is still walking around. What I wouldn't do for just three swings with a Louisville Slugger. . . -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 221] Author : Kelly Date : 26th February 2006 05:27 PM I'd like to help in any way possible. This summer marks 10 years since my cousin Morgan Violi (http://www.robertsonsheriff.com/special/Violi.htm) was kidnapped and murdered. I remember vividly when my aunt was told that a psychic was interested in the case. I wasn't the hardcore skeptic that I am now, but I never bought into psychic phenomena. I wanted to speak up against the idea, but decided that it wasn't my place. I've regretted it ever since. I'd like the opportunity to redeem myself. I'll mod a forum, if you have it, or anything else that I could do to help (even if it's just to donate money). Welcome, Prewitt81. What a beautiful child! I am sorry your family has endured this tragedy, and then also not to have the killer(s) brought to justice. It's obvious that psychics could not resolve the case. Is it possible that the family would come forward with their story at this time, or would it cause problems with relationships or great pain to ask? I will be starting a series on the topic on my blog in early March. In conjunction with that, we'll release to the public the related website. At this time, we have not made a decision about having a forum there. We may just start out with basic info, and then add on from there. We would be happy to have your help in whatever manner you feel appropriate. Thank you. Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski President and Founder, Project Jason http://www.projectjason.org Read our Voice for the Missing Blog http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 222] Author : Kelly Date : 26th February 2006 05:30 PM If he's killed once, he'll do it again. Who knows how many serial killers are free, looking for their next victim. It's funny how psychics can't smoke them out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 223] Author : prewitt81 Date : 26th February 2006 05:45 PM Kelly, We don't see my aunt much these days as she was married into the family until my uncle (who wasn't Morgan's father) passed away. I have probably only seen her a handfull of times since the tragedy happened, and have been timid to bring the subject up. Yet I have always wondered if she ever went through with the psychic consultation, what was said, and what she thinks of psychics now. Perhaps once the website is launched, I can try to contact her through one of my cousins to let her look and see what she thinks. That's probably the best I can do on that front at the moment. Jeff Prewitt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 224] Author : Kelly Date : 26th February 2006 07:38 PM Kelly, We don't see my aunt much these days as she was married into the family until my uncle (who wasn't Morgan's father) passed away. I have probably only seen her a handfull of times since the tragedy happened, and have been timid to bring the subject up. Yet I have always wondered if she ever went through with the psychic consultation, what was said, and what she thinks of psychics now. Perhaps once the website is launched, I can try to contact her through one of my cousins to let her look and see what she thinks. That's probably the best I can do on that front at the moment. Jeff Prewitt Be sure to hang around, Jeff, for when the times comes and we need you. You have that unique perpective in that you understand on a personal level. Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 225] Author : Katachresis Date : 27th February 2006 11:35 AM OK, first I stink at tech stuff. Second, I can't print: http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html without losing the right side last few letters. It might be me. I did selection out the text to print, but is this my problem or a site problem? ...and I apologize for not reading posts after last Friday, I will later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 226] Author : Kelly Date : 27th February 2006 11:44 AM OK, first I stink at tech stuff. Second, I can't print: http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html without losing the right side last few letters. It might be me. I did selection out the text to print, but is this my problem or a site problem? ...and I apologize for not reading posts after last Friday, I will later. This is something I've always wondered how to do. I think it might have to do with the screen resolution, but I am not sure. Anyone else for this question? Thanks, K! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 227] Author : sophia8 Date : 27th February 2006 12:40 PM OK, first I stink at tech stuff. Second, I can't print: http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html without losing the right side last few letters. It might be me. I did selection out the text to print, but is this my problem or a site problem? ...and I apologize for not reading posts after last Friday, I will later. Try going to Page Setup in your printer options and narrowing the margins. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 228] Author : Katachresis Date : 27th February 2006 01:05 PM Tried that, same result. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 229] Author : Katachresis Date : 27th February 2006 01:44 PM Kelly, I wanted to let you know that as far as your main goal, bringing a skeptic eye to psychics and the missing, I cannot help. But I know others here will, so that's good. Instead I have been working on the Come Home part here in Boston. Doing the leg work, and making the calls. Today was actually great. I've made contacts in 2 shelters, and once I'm sure of my footing there, I will find others. I wish I could help on the skeptic front, but, hey, I'll do what I can. As always, you pick your battles. This small part is a battle I choose to fight. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 230] Author : Kelly Date : 27th February 2006 01:51 PM Kelly, I wanted to let you know that as far as your main goal, bringing a skeptic eye to psychics and the missing, I cannot help. But I know others here will, so that's good. Instead I have been working on the Come Home part here in Boston. Doing the leg work, and making the calls. Today was actually great. I've made contacts in 2 shelters, and once I'm sure of my footing there, I will find others. I wish I could help on the skeptic front, but, hey, I'll do what I can. As always, you pick your battles. This small part is a battle I choose to fight. That works for me. The more shelters we have on the program, the more effective. It seems there are quite a few here willing to help with the psychics, so we're good to go there. I'm sure Boston has quite a few shelters, but we've never once been able to get one to sign up. The NE part of the country doesn't lack shelters, but we seem to do better in the south with sign-ups. Perhaps we can make up some ground. Thank you! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 231] Author : Katachresis Date : 27th February 2006 01:55 PM Then stop staring at me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 232] Author : Kelly Date : 27th February 2006 02:02 PM Then stop staring at me. I have to keep watch somehow when I am not able to be here. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 233] Author : rjh01 Date : 28th February 2006 01:11 AM OK, first I stink at tech stuff. Second, I can't print: http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html without losing the right side last few letters. One solution is to change the page to landscape in page setup. Then it will print OK. Another option is to highlight the text, press Cntl C to copy to the clipboard then go to Word and press Cntl V to paste. It will print OK there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 234] Author : Gr8wight Date : 28th February 2006 07:30 AM One solution is to change the page to landscape in page setup. Then it will print OK. Another option is to highlight the text, press Cntl C to copy to the clipboard then go to Word and press Cntl V to paste. It will print OK there. You might have to turn on word wrap before printing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 235] Author : CFLarsen Date : 28th February 2006 09:13 AM You might have to turn on word wrap before printing. Is that Microsoft's version of saran wrap? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 236] Author : Katachresis Date : 28th February 2006 10:25 AM what I did was highlight the text, file, print, and check the Selection button rather than the All button. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 237] Author : Kelly Date : 28th February 2006 12:22 PM I heard from Tony Youens today. He said he would do a write up and post a link down the road. (Thanks, Cabby) I also received a story from one of my families. I thought my experience was bad enough, but when I read this one, mine was a walk in the park! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 238] Author : Katachresis Date : 28th February 2006 02:22 PM OK, back to business. re: Hello Kevin - Thank you for making me aware of the missing persons locator through "Project Jason" I have forwarded the same information along to ...snip... New England Shelter for Homeless Veterans. Kelly, is there anything else you need regarding this shelter? Also, I still haven't heard from the other shelter I mentioned. 2 phone calls and one email. I think tomorrow will be a face-to-face meeting. I'll wear a nice tie, and my new super cool raincoat. It makes me feel like Neo in "the Matrix". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 239] Author : Kelly Date : 28th February 2006 05:01 PM OK, back to business. re: Hello Kevin - Thank you for making me aware of the missing persons locator through "Project Jason" I have forwarded the same information along to ...snip... New England Shelter for Homeless Veterans. Kelly, is there anything else you need regarding this shelter? Also, I still haven't heard from the other shelter I mentioned. 2 phone calls and one email. I think tomorrow will be a face-to-face meeting. I'll wear a nice tie, and my new super cool raincoat. It makes me feel like Neo in "the Matrix". I will contact them, Kevin, and find out which email addresses they want to use. LOL on the "Neo" look. As to the 2nd shelter, I wouldn't go any further than that. Sometimes they're all wrapped up in privacy laws, and they can also have the perception that we have persons on the program who are not really missing, such as women hiding from abusive men, etc. Thank you! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 240] Author : Kelly Date : 2nd March 2006 12:12 PM Cabby: I think you need to write your "conversion" story for my blog series! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 241] Author : chillzero Date : 2nd March 2006 12:44 PM Cabby: I think you need to write your "conversion" story for my blog series! Kelly, I would be honoured. I think I would write it better than the remote viewing you suggested. I'll get back to you with that. (and thanks for noticing it) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 242] Author : Kelly Date : 2nd March 2006 01:20 PM Kelly, I would be honoured. I think I would write it better than the remote viewing you suggested. I'll get back to you with that. (and thanks for noticing it) I agree about the remote viewing...this one is for you! (The conversion story!) Shoot me an email when you get time. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 243] Author : Kelly Date : 3rd March 2006 11:31 AM I just had a great conversation with Joe Nikell. He is too busy to contribute a complete article to the blog series, but I have permission to use segments from his articles. He's going to try to get me a quote specific to the series in relation to what we are trying to accomplish. I will be out for a good part of the day on a missing person search, so see you later. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 244] Author : LeCynthia Date : 3rd March 2006 02:18 PM Try going to Page Setup in your printer options and narrowing the margins. It's the frame on the left causing the letters to cut off on the right. Select the text you want to print (make sure nothing in the left pane is highlighted) then don't hit the print icon, go to file>print, and click the button for Selection. That should print better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 245] Author : Katachresis Date : 3rd March 2006 02:34 PM what I did was highlight the text, file, print, and check the Selection button rather than the All button. It's the frame on the left causing the letters to cut off on the right. Select the text you want to print (make sure nothing in the left pane is highlighted) then don't hit the print icon, go to file>print, and click the button for Selection. That should print better. Yeah, but the problem is a site related problem, or am I wrong? at: http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html which is my main area I wish to help in. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 246] Author : Mariah Date : 3rd March 2006 02:51 PM I just had a great conversation with Joe Nikell. He is too busy to contribute a complete article to the blog series, but I have permission to use segments from his articles. He's going to try to get me a quote specific to the series in relation to what we are trying to accomplish. I will be out for a good part of the day on a missing person search, so see you later. Kelly You go, girl. Joe Nickell is the finest debunker out there--sharp as a tack and even tempered--and not easy to get a hold of. You are cookin' with grease now. My admiration knows no bounds. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 247] Author : Kelly Date : 4th March 2006 12:25 AM You go, girl. Joe Nickell is the finest debunker out there--sharp as a tack and even tempered--and not easy to get a hold of. You are cookin' with grease now. My admiration knows no bounds. Thank you! I have my quote already...that was fast. It's brief like Susan's, but effective. It will also be helpful to know I can quote from his materials. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 248] Author : Mariah Date : 4th March 2006 04:24 AM You'll have so many experts putting in their two cents, Michael Shermer will be sorry he didn't reply to me, darn him! Idea: maybe if YOU emailed him, telling him about Susan Blackmore's participation (which I did) and Joe Nickell's, he would now. Couldn't hurt. And when the Amazing One himself is able...! What do you think about going on Art Bell show? Or has that already been addressed here on the forum and I've forgotten or missed it? That would be a different take on things than when you visited the TV folks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 249] Author : Kelly Date : 4th March 2006 08:10 AM I think I will write to Shermer. Last night I was telling my husband that I received a quote from a world famous psychic buster. He said: "James Randi?" I told him: "No, not yet." ;) I think someone did mention the Art Bell idea. Isn't he a believer in woo? When I hear his name, I think of UFO stories. Thanks, Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 250] Author : Hardenbergh Date : 4th March 2006 01:16 PM Alex Tanous, a noted psychic and parapsychologist from Maine (now deceased) helped locate my next door neighbor's daughter and boyfriend many, many years ago. They were teenagers at the time and they had eloped but hadn't been in contact with their families. My neighbors consulted Alex Tanous and he told them where they were. As it turned out, he had been correct and they were both fine. www.alextanous.org He was also mentioned in another thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27798 I also know someone who is gifted in this regard but didn't really like to use his abilities except in special cases. Some people find psychic abilities burdensome and they're not particularly comfortable with such gifts. He helped the police locate two young children who were lost in the woods in northern Maine. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 251] Author : CFLarsen Date : 4th March 2006 01:45 PM Alex Tanous, a noted psychic and parapsychologist from Maine (now deceased) helped locate my next door neighbor's daughter and boyfriend many, many years ago. They were teenagers at the time and they had eloped but hadn't been in contact with their families. My neighbors consulted Alex Tanous and he told them where they were. As it turned out, he had been correct and they were both fine. www.alextanous.org He was also mentioned in another thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27798 Unverifiable anecdote. I also know someone who is gifted in this regard but didn't really like to use his abilities except in special cases. Some people find psychic abilities burdensome and they're not particularly comfortable with such gifts. He helped the police locate two young children who were lost in the woods in northern Maine. Please identify this "gifted" person. Please provide information about this case so we can verify just what this "gifted" person did. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 252] Author : Kelly Date : 4th March 2006 01:52 PM I also know someone who is gifted in this regard but didn't really like to use his abilities except in special cases. Some people find psychic abilities burdensome and they're not particularly comfortable with such gifts. He helped the police locate two young children who were lost in the woods in northern Maine. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I could "help" the police find a missing person by participating in a search or related activities. You will need to further define what actions were involved in the help given and what case information was made available beforehand to your friend. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 253] Author : JPK Date : 4th March 2006 01:56 PM Good afternoon Hardenbergh. Your post seems to have missed the point of this very productive thread. If you have evidence to back up your claims, please start a new thread about it. Your post is directly the opposite of what the thread is about. JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 254] Author : Kelly Date : 4th March 2006 02:00 PM Good afternoon Hardenbergh. Your post seems to have missed the point of this very productive thread. If you have evidence to back up your claims, please start a new thread about it. Your post is directly the opposite of what the thread is about. JPK JPK is right. Perhaps sometimes I am too nice! This thread has been derailed on more than one occasion. Thanks, JPK. BTW, since I have your (readers) attention, I'd still really love to find someone who would write a simulation dialog between a psychic and a missing person's family member to show the methods they use to reel the gullible and desperate person into believing in them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 255] Author : JPK Date : 4th March 2006 02:10 PM Good afternoon KellyJ. This has been one of the most productive threads I have ever read on this or any forum and I can't thank you enough for that. If he has evidence of a psychic helping someone great. Post it somewhere else. JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 256] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 4th March 2006 02:54 PM This has been one of the most productive threads I have ever read on this or any forum and I can't thank you enough for that. JPK I couldn't agree more! It has been very encouraging to see how people quickly volunteered to help. Kelly, I wish you all the best both on a personal level and with all your ongoing projects. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 257] Author : Kelly Date : 4th March 2006 06:07 PM Thank you, JPK and Mr. Stick. Dr. Michael Shermer just sent me an email and said I can quote the entire last chapter of his book "How We Believe". It's perfect for the occasion! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 258] Author : logical muse Date : 4th March 2006 09:15 PM Kelly, please accept my belated welcome to this forum, and my sincere condolences for your loss. Sorry to come in so late, but if there is any assistance I can offer, it would be my pleasure and honour. I can help with the new web site, if needed. Web design, development, hosting, anything. Fowl and Larsen, if you guys need anything, just ask. Has a domain name been chosen yet? I notice that what appears to be the current choice, psychicpredators.com, has not been registered yet. I can buy the name right now if you want. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 259] Author : Kelly Date : 5th March 2006 12:54 AM Kelly, please accept my belated welcome to this forum, and my sincere condolences for your loss. Sorry to come in so late, but if there is any assistance I can offer, it would be my pleasure and honour. I can help with the new web site, if needed. Web design, development, hosting, anything. Fowl and Larsen, if you guys need anything, just ask. Has a domain name been chosen yet? I notice that what appears to be the current choice, psychicpredators.com, has not been registered yet. I can buy the name right now if you want. Thank you for your kindness. We're working behind the scenes to get this going. Claus did the developement end, and a fine job at that. FS is working on the domain and uploading. I am to work on the content, but am dog paddling for the time being because of my work in a local search effort. Please feel free to check with them to see if there is something else they need help with. Regards, Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 260] Author : logical muse Date : 5th March 2006 01:12 AM Thank you for your kindness. We're working behind the scenes to get this going. Claus did the developement end, and a fine job at that. FS is working on the domain and uploading. I am to work on the content, but am dog paddling for the time being because of my work in a local search effort. Please feel free to check with them to see if there is something else they need help with. Regards, Kelly OK, I've PMed them. If there's any way I can put my skills to use to help, I'll be glad to. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 261] Author : Kelly Date : 5th March 2006 01:17 AM OK, I've PMed them. If there's any way I can put my skills to use to help, I'll be glad to. Do your talents lie on the Web related end of the spectrum, or do you also write? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 262] Author : logical muse Date : 5th March 2006 01:34 AM Do your talents lie on the Web related end of the spectrum, or do you also write? Mostly web stuff. I can write, and in fact I've had a few TLA nominations, for whatever that's worth. Never won, mind you... What did you have in mind? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 263] Author : Kelly Date : 5th March 2006 09:47 AM There's a few things I would like to have. 1) A dialog between a missing person family and a psychic that shows the methods the psychic uses to extract information and convince the family that they really do have paranormal abilities. 2) A summary of Sylvia Browne and her grand manipulations, including her apparent refusal to take the Challenge 3) An article about the tricks used by TV psychics: what really goes on behind the scenes 4) I don't know much about Remote Viewing, so I'd like an article about what that is and why it's another false claim 5) A brief history of related paranormal activity in the USA, starting with the Fox sisters 6) A summary of the various methods used by psychics There may be others I am forgetting right now. I know there are several writers out there. Any and all help is appreciated. Thank you. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 264] Author : CFLarsen Date : 5th March 2006 10:51 AM There's a few things I would like to have. There are quite a few on SkepticReport... ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 265] Author : Kelly Date : 5th March 2006 10:55 AM There are quite a few on SkepticReport... ;) If I have a lack of guest writers doing these summaries, may I quote direct from these articles? See you all later tonight....the search we are helping with concludes today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 266] Author : CFLarsen Date : 5th March 2006 11:34 AM If I have a lack of guest writers doing these summaries, may I quote direct from these articles? No. You may put them on your site. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 267] Author : Mariah Date : 5th March 2006 11:41 AM Kelly, as part of my research, I've visited Florida's Cassadaga Spiritualist Camp which was the southern retreat for the Spiritualists who founded Lily Dale in New York State, where Spiritualism got its start in the U.S. and incubated. I do not have info directly related to psychic detectives, but I can report what I found out about psychics, firsthand. I attended their Sunday morning Lyceum, their church service, and the two hours of Sunday afternoon readings that experienced and student mediums hold for the public. I don't know if that would be specific enough, though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 268] Author : logical muse Date : 5th March 2006 01:52 PM There's a few things I would like to have. 1) A dialog between a missing person family and a psychic that shows the methods the psychic uses to extract information and convince the family that they really do have paranormal abilities. 2) A summary of Sylvia Browne and her grand manipulations, including her apparent refusal to take the Challenge 3) An article about the tricks used by TV psychics: what really goes on behind the scenes 4) I don't know much about Remote Viewing, so I'd like an article about what that is and why it's another false claim 5) A brief history of related paranormal activity in the USA, starting with the Fox sisters 6) A summary of the various methods used by psychics There may be others I am forgetting right now. I know there are several writers out there. Any and all help is appreciated. Thank you. Kelly Hi Kelly, There are others here much more knowledgeable about these things than I am; in fact I'm no expert at all. I really only know about these topics from what I read here and a few other places on the web. CFLarsen has some great articles. Also, the Skeptic's Dictionary (http://skepdic.com/) and Skeptic Wiki (http://www.skepticwiki.org/) have a lot of information. It might be worth your while contecting the people at twopercentco to see if you can use their series on Allison DuBois (http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html). Perhaps I'm best helping with the web site: coding, testing, hosting, or anything else. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 269] Author : Kelly Date : 5th March 2006 07:32 PM Kelly, as part of my research, I've visited Florida's Cassadaga Spiritualist Camp which was the southern retreat for the Spiritualists who founded Lily Dale in New York State, where Spiritualism got its start in the U.S. and incubated. I do not have info directly related to psychic detectives, but I can report what I found out about psychics, firsthand. I attended their Sunday morning Lyceum, their church service, and the two hours of Sunday afternoon readings that experienced and student mediums hold for the public. I don't know if that would be specific enough, though. I've never heard of these places, but I am sure your observances would be helpful. Not all articles will be specifically about missing person's cases, but as long as the reader can draw a rational conclusion from knowledge of the methods used, I'm sure it would be vaulable. Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 270] Author : Kelly Date : 5th March 2006 07:33 PM No. You may put them on your site. :) Slave driver! I'm trying to get to it, Claus. Gotta love that biting sense of humor. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 271] Author : Kelly Date : 5th March 2006 07:37 PM Hi Kelly, There are others here much more knowledgeable about these things than I am; in fact I'm no expert at all. I really only know about these topics from what I read here and a few other places on the web. CFLarsen has some great articles. Also, the Skeptic's Dictionary (http://skepdic.com/) and Skeptic Wiki (http://www.skepticwiki.org/) have a lot of information. It might be worth your while contecting the people at twopercentco to see if you can use their series on Allison DuBois (http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html). Perhaps I'm best helping with the web site: coding, testing, hosting, or anything else. Aw, thanks for the reminders on those links. I know those will be helpful when writing the summaries of methods used, etc. It may be possible that there are future website needs as we see how this venture grows. I will be sure to let Mr. Randi know (when he is better) what a huge help his members have been. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 272] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 01:49 AM I have posted information about the start of the blog series in the Community forum area. Thank you, and good night. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 273] Author : rjh01 Date : 6th March 2006 01:58 AM This is located at http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53212 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 274] Author : Hardenbergh Date : 6th March 2006 05:41 AM Unverifiable anecdote. Please identify this "gifted" person. Please provide information about this case so we can verify just what this "gifted" person did. I didn't want to provide too many details as this person doesn't like to draw too much attention to himself although I did see an article from the newspaper at the time. I would like to add that he never charged for this service and he is the brother of someone very close to me who has since passed on. Alex Tanous' brother, Wakine, is an attorney. Both Alex and Wakine were friends of the family I was speaking about above. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 275] Author : Gr8wight Date : 6th March 2006 08:13 AM I didn't want to provide too many details as this person doesn't like to draw too much attention to himself although I did see an article from the newspaper at the time. I would like to add that he never charged for this service and he is the brother of someone very close to me who has since passed on. Alex Tanous' brother, Wakine, is an attorney. Both Alex and Wakine were friends of the family I was speaking about above. Please name the newspaper the article appeared in, and, if you can, the date the article appeared. (Month and year; I don't expect you to remember the exact date). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 276] Author : Hardenbergh Date : 6th March 2006 08:22 AM Please name the newspaper the article appeared in, and, if you can, the date the article appeared. (Month and year; I don't expect you to remember the exact date). His brother showed me a copy of the article but this was many years ago. I assume it was a newspaper in northern Maine (either the Bangor Daily News, Katahdin Press, Lincoln News or some such newspaper in or around Millinocket). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 277] Author : Mercutio Date : 6th March 2006 08:27 AM His brother showed me a copy of the article but this was many years ago. I assume it was a newspaper in northern Maine (either the Bangor Daily News, Katahdin Press, Lincoln News or some such newspaper in or around Millinocket). If our university library does not have this on microfilm, I have friends in Portland who would be able to find it in their library. Please try to narrow down the date--talk to his brother if you need to. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 278] Author : JPK Date : 6th March 2006 08:39 AM Good morning Hardenbergh. I didn't want to provide I do believe you were asked nicely to start your own thread if you have something to say about this. This thread is about providing grieving parents and family information on how to protect themselves against the second wave of predators, like your friends Alex, and Wakine. If you wish to provide evidence that psychics have some ability to help, do so in a new thread. If you would like to talk about all the pain they cause a family and the valuable police time and resources they waste, then all means give us your examples. Please do not continue to blather on about your deluded friends in this thread. JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 279] Author : JPK Date : 6th March 2006 09:08 AM Good morning KellyJ. I moved this post from the other thread. I don't know if you saw it or not. Originally Posted by KellyJ http://www.randi.org/forumlive/images/misc/backlink.gif (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52792&page=3#post1486221): Is there anything still on the web about this that shows the error of Carla's ways on this case? I think this is the one where the dad claimed he couldn't remember where he placed their bodies. The mother spent alot of time going back and forth on I-80 looking for them. Yes that is the case. I think I read in one of your posts that you are aware of I.I.G. Here is a link to their investigation into Carla Baron's claims of success. http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html Sarah and Philip Gehring was thier names. That case is mentioned there but it hasn't been updated. JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 280] Author : Hardenbergh Date : 6th March 2006 09:15 AM Good morning Hardenbergh. I do believe you were asked nicely to start your own thread if you have something to say about this. This thread is about providing grieving parents and family information on how to protect themselves against the second wave of predators, like your friends Alex, and Wakine. If you wish to provide evidence that psychics have some ability to help, do so in a new thread. If you would like to talk about all the pain they cause a family and the valuable police time and resources they waste, then all means give us your examples. Please do not continue to blather on about your deluded friends in this thread. JPK I'm aware that there are more charlatans than not but I'm confident that there are many that have helped the police. I'm very sorry that the author of this thread has had this experience. I'll say no more about it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 281] Author : JPK Date : 6th March 2006 09:25 AM Good morning Hardenbergh. I'm aware that there are more charlatans than not but I'm confident that there are many that have helped the police. I'm very sorry that the author of this thread has had this experience. I'll say no more about it. Thank you for understanding. I would be very interested to hear any evidence you have about the real psychics you know, on another thread. Feel free to start one. JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 282] Author : CFLarsen Date : 6th March 2006 09:26 AM I didn't want to provide too many details as this person doesn't like to draw too much attention to himself although I did see an article from the newspaper at the time. I would like to add that he never charged for this service and he is the brother of someone very close to me who has since passed on. Alex Tanous' brother, Wakine, is an attorney. Both Alex and Wakine were friends of the family I was speaking about above. None of this answers any of my questions. In fact, this is the same pathetic drivel we hear, each time people like you tries to perpetuate the myth of psychics being able to talk to the dead. We hear the grand claims, yes. Boy, do we hear them. But when you and the likes of you are asked - ever so politely - to provide evidence, we hear the same heartless excuses. No, you don't "want" to identify these psychics. No, you want to "protect" their identity. Don't you understand how much pain you cause people in deep grief, by making these claims you are utterly unable to back up with evidence? Don't you understand how little credibility you have, when you claim that this person doesn't want to draw "too much attention" to himself, despite the fact that the very same person seeks attention by appearing the the media? You refuse to identify this psychic, not out of concern for him or the grieving family, but because you know damn well that your claim will be torn apart, if you allow skeptics to investigate your claim. You know that these psychics can't talk to the dead. Go on, start your whining. Begin to tell us how mean we are, simply because we want to check your claim. Tell your friends, too. We have heard it all before, and we are not impressed. Not at all. You are the reason why people like Sylvia Browne, James van Praagh, John Edward and Carla Baron can continue to bilk poor, grieving people out of their money, while sucking on their grief. You protect these scumbags, because you would rather prefer to have your own beliefs untouched, regardless of the consequences. "There are no greater liars in the world than quacks — except for their patients." Benjamin Franklin -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 283] Author : Hardenbergh Date : 6th March 2006 09:32 AM None of this answers any of my questions. In fact, this is the same pathetic drivel we hear, each time people like you tries to perpetuate the myth of psychics being able to talk to the dead. We hear the grand claims, yes. Boy, do we hear them. But when you and the likes of you are asked - ever so politely - to provide evidence, we hear the same heartless excuses. No, you don't "want" to identify these psychics. No, you want to "protect" their identity. Don't you understand how much pain you cause people in deep grief, by making these claims you are utterly unable to back up with evidence? Don't you understand how little credibility you have, when you claim that this person doesn't want to draw "too much attention" to himself, despite the fact that the very same person seeks attention by appearing the the media? You refuse to identify this psychic, not out of concern for him or the grieving family, but because you know damn well that your claim will be torn apart, if you allow skeptics to investigate your claim. You know that these psychics can't talk to the dead. Go on, start your whining. Begin to tell us how mean we are, simply because we want to check your claim. Tell your friends, too. We have heard it all before, and we are not impressed. Not at all. You are the reason why people like Sylvia Browne, James van Praagh, John Edward and Carla Baron can continue to bilk poor, grieving people out of their money, while sucking on their grief. You protect these scumbags, because you would rather prefer to have your own beliefs untouched, regardless of the consequences. "There are no greater liars in the world than quacks — except for their patients." Benjamin Franklin He doesn't advertise the fact that he has psychic abilities and has rarely used it. He is not--I repeat--he is not a scumbag. I'm sure that the article was printed with much reluctance on his part. I said nothing about his communicating with the dead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 284] Author : JPK Date : 6th March 2006 09:42 AM Would you like me to start the thread for you to disscuss this or would you be good enough to do this on your own? JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 285] Author : Roadtoad Date : 6th March 2006 09:44 AM Well, if he has any credibility, let's see him go for the million. If he wins, he's the real deal. If not, we know he's a scammer. Since he has yet to try, I go with scammer. He may not get rich from using his "gifts," but he seems to get something from it. Why else would he do it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 286] Author : Hardenbergh Date : 6th March 2006 09:47 AM Well, if he has any credibility, let's see him go for the million. If he wins, he's the real deal. If not, we know he's a scammer. Since he has yet to try, I go with scammer. He may not get rich from using his "gifts," but he seems to get something from it. Why else would he do it? It was in his own community and perhaps he knew the family and wanted to help out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 287] Author : CFLarsen Date : 6th March 2006 09:53 AM He doesn't advertise the fact that he has psychic abilities and has rarely used it. He is not--I repeat--he is not a scumbag. I'm sure that the article was printed with much reluctance on his part. I said nothing about his communicating with the dead. I am not interested in your pathetic excuses. Show the evidence, or stop hurting these poor, grieving people. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 288] Author : Roadtoad Date : 6th March 2006 10:03 AM It was in his own community and perhaps he knew the family and wanted to help out. In other words, he's groovin' on the attention. He's a scammer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 289] Author : Hardenbergh Date : 6th March 2006 10:05 AM In other words, he's groovin' on the attention. He's a scammer. He's not "groovin" on the attention. He'd be doing a lot more of it. He's not an attention monger, I assure you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 290] Author : JPK Date : 6th March 2006 10:12 AM Done. I have started a new thread just for you Hardenbergh. Please continue this disscusion there. JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 291] Author : Beth Date : 6th March 2006 10:40 AM We hear the grand claims, yes. Boy, do we hear them. But when you and the likes of you are asked - ever so politely - to provide evidence, we hear the same heartless excuses. No, you don't "want" to identify these psychics. No, you want to "protect" their identity. You refuse to identify this psychic, not out of concern for him or the grieving family, but because you know damn well that your claim will be torn apart, if you allow skeptics to investigate your claim. You know that these psychics can't talk to the dead. You protect these scumbags, because you would rather prefer to have your own beliefs untouched, regardless of the consequences. You are attributing thoughts and motivations to other people that you cannot know if they are true. You don't know what Hardenbergh believes regarding whether psychics can or cannot talk to the dead, therefore you do not know what s/he knows regarding that fact. Further, it's directly contradictory with the next statement I've included. If Hardenbergh knows that psychics can't talk to the dead, there would be no motivation to "protect" that belief regardless of the consequences. While you may consider reasons of wanting to 'protect' the identity of non-professional self-described pyschics bogus, the truth is that many such psychics do not care to discuss their experiences or even be named as a psychic in a public forum such as this. Thus, if discussing a personal friend who feels that way, such a revelation would be tantamount to betrayal of the friendship and expecting someone to do so despite the objections of their friend is unrealistic and inappropriate. So basically, I think you've made a bunch of unfounded accusations designed to incite an emotional response or drive the poster away from this forum rather than sparking further conversation and discussion of the matter. You come across as mean and vindictive rather than knowledge seeking. Is this the image you wish to portray? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 292] Author : The_Fire Date : 6th March 2006 10:47 AM Kindly take this little bashfest to the proper thread. ALL of you! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 293] Author : Roadtoad Date : 6th March 2006 11:01 AM So moved. And done. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 294] Author : CFLarsen Date : 6th March 2006 11:25 AM You are attributing thoughts and motivations to other people that you cannot know if they are true. You don't know what Hardenbergh believes regarding whether psychics can or cannot talk to the dead, therefore you do not know what s/he knows regarding that fact. Further, it's directly contradictory with the next statement I've included. If Hardenbergh knows that psychics can't talk to the dead, there would be no motivation to "protect" that belief regardless of the consequences. Oh, yes, there would: Belief in the supernatural is so captivating that it is impossible to relinquish. Almost. We do see examples, but as a rule, people are not willing to abandon their beliefs. This isn't just evident in belief in psychics. We see it in all forms of supernatural beliefs: Homeopaths (Dr. MAS and Dr. Sheik), Astrologers (Karen Boesen), Magnetism Healers (Roger Coghill) - you name it: All refuse to provide evidence of their claims, all refuse to have their claims examined, all refuse to give up their false beliefs. While you may consider reasons of wanting to 'protect' the identity of non-professional self-described pyschics bogus, the truth is that many such psychics do not care to discuss their experiences or even be named as a psychic in a public forum such as this. Thus, if discussing a personal friend who feels that way, such a revelation would be tantamount to betrayal of the friendship and expecting someone to do so despite the objections of their friend is unrealistic and inappropriate. Sorry, but this psychic is already out in the open. Even if this was not so, the nature of the claim makes it imperative that we investigate it. We are talking about the ability to locate lost children. We simply cannot just let such a claim go untested or unchallenged. If this person can find them, then we can save lives. If this person can not find them, then he has to be stopped from preying on grieving people. By investigating these claims, we have everything to win. If we don't investigate them, we have everything to lose. So basically, I think you've made a bunch of unfounded accusations designed to incite an emotional response or drive the poster away from this forum rather than sparking further conversation and discussion of the matter. You come across as mean and vindictive rather than knowledge seeking. Is this the image you wish to portray? Excuse me if I get a bit upset about the reality of psychics scamming grieving people. Why did you not address that aspect at all? All you did was protect the scammers. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 295] Author : Beth Date : 6th March 2006 02:55 PM Responded in the other thread per request to move this discussion elsewhere. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 296] Author : Katachresis Date : 6th March 2006 03:01 PM Thanks, Beth. I've been working on a question I want to ask about the relationship between "psychics" and families that have a missing family memeber. I can't get the words or phrases the way I want them yet, but that is the direction we should be moving. You're right Beth, let's stay on topic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 297] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 6th March 2006 05:06 PM SkepticWiki now has an article. Psychic Detectives I found the links by searching this forum for threads with the word "detective" in them. Ah, yes, I remember Lucianarchy ... oh the fun we had ... Here's a good bit from one of the links: Police listened with more that the usual interest to a psychic who told them about a serious industrial fire that he not only predicted with great accuracy, but about which he had supplied important details after the event, details which it appeared he could only know as a result of his special powers. His account was so accurate that he was immediately arrested and an investigation soon reveled that he'd had no need of paranormal powers to produce his visions. His information was essentially first hand: He himself was the arsonist. * (http://www.valleyskeptic.com/psychic.htm) * sniggers * Professionals Against Confidence Crime (http://pac-c.org/police%20&%20psychics.htm) is a nice authoritative source. Please let me know when the projected website is up and running, and about the Tony Youens article when it materializes, and I can add links. Is there anything else I should add? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 298] Author : Ashles Date : 6th March 2006 05:29 PM Is there anything else I should add? Just about anything involving Dennis Mackenzie. A nasty piece of work who everyone should be warned about. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28352&highlight=dennis+mackenzie Another old thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34908&highlight=dennis+mackenzie I wish psychics could help police. Oh how I wish that. I just no longer understand how anyone can believe they do. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 299] Author : Luke T. Date : 6th March 2006 05:46 PM There's a few things I would like to have. 1) A dialog between a missing person family and a psychic that shows the methods the psychic uses to extract information and convince the family that they really do have paranormal abilities. I think you would be better situated to come up with what kind of sales pitch a psychic makes to the family of a missing person. I'm kind of curious myself. It must take incredible nerve for someone to initiate contact with a grieving family. 3) An article about the tricks used by TV psychics: what really goes on behind the scenes We can only speculate what goes on behind the scenes on a TV show. 4) I don't know much about Remote Viewing, so I'd like an article about what that is and why it's another false claim An excellent article on Skeptic Report that I mentioned earlier: http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/psitechsmart.htm Kelly, I told you in a PM that every time I hear of a psychic on the news being given any credibility, I write to the reporter or editor of the story to give them hell. I am going to link to a topic on Skeptical Community in which I used some pretty strong language, so you are forewarned. The topic is here, (http://www.skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=169977) and I deconstruct the story that was on the news, and then post what I wrote to the reporter. If you would like me to write a short article about this story to show how the media allows itself to be manipulated and gives psychics validity, as well as an excellent example of how it makes it look like even law enforcement is validating the psychic, I'd be very happy to do so. ETA: It appears that the Fox web site removed the video which I make reference to. Fortunately, I copied some of the transcript into my post in the aforelinked topic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 300] Author : Luke T. Date : 6th March 2006 06:01 PM Kelly, if you can ask someone who has been solicited by a psychic to find their missing loved one to recollect as accurately as possible what was said/claimed by the psychic in the conversation, I will be happy to write a Self-Defense Course on how to handle such calls. The more input you can collect from various people, the better. That way we can get an idea of the typical sales pitch. I imagine the psychics claim to have worked with the police and to have "helped" find missing children/loved ones, and so on. I would write such an article along these lines: If a psychic calls you to offer their services, here are the following steps you should take... 1. Hang up. :) Of course, I would go into more than that. I would arm them with questions to ask the psychic. Name the children you found. Name the police you helped. Dates, places, etc. Were you credited in any media reports? Which ones? Dates. Do you have ANY references at all, you freaking creep? You get the idea. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 301] Author : Mariah Date : 6th March 2006 06:07 PM Kelly, I told you in a PM that every time I hear of a psychic on the news being given any credibility, I write to the reporter or editor of the story to give them hell. Oh yes, yes. Would that we would ALL do that. Oh, let's. LET'S!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 302] Author : Luke T. Date : 6th March 2006 06:10 PM Here's the really sick part, Kelly, which I am sure you know: Psychics count on the missing person and person who took them never being found. The odds are in their favor. They can make all kinds of wild claims about activities that occurred surrounding the disappearance with the knowledge that the odds are in their favor. And even if the missing person is found, or the kidnapper caught, no one will remember how far off the psychic was except the immediate family and they aren't going to have the resources to make that knowledge public. That's what makes the Elizabeth Smart Psi-Tch case so great. She was found alive and none of the events Psi-Tech remotely viewed were remotely correct. It was a spectacular and public failure. And boy did they scurry to cover it up! To no avail. So use it. Like a hammer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 303] Author : Luke T. Date : 6th March 2006 07:13 PM Okay, Kelly. I have just written a two page article on the Kimberly Forbes missing person case and the psychic hired by the TV station. I titled it "But The News Said Psychics Are Real!" Just tell me where to email it if you want it. You can do whatever you want with it. All rights, etc., etc., are yours. All I ask is that if you credit it to me, that the byline say "Luke T." I don't use my whole name in public venues for personal security reasons. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 304] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 6th March 2006 07:26 PM Just about anything involving Dennis Mackenzie. A nasty piece of work who everyone should be warned about. I found a piece by Tony Youens (http://www.tonyyouens.com/commentary.htm#mckenzie) about him and have put in a link. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 305] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 07:37 PM Wow! I leave for the evening and come back to find all of this wonderful help! I just came back from the wrap-up meeting from the search I was assisting with this past 3 days. Let me unwind and catch up with urgent emails, and I will be back to reply. (Maybe I should leave again??) ;) Thank you all! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 306] Author : Mariah Date : 6th March 2006 07:38 PM Hurry up, Kell! You're getting Left Behind! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 307] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 6th March 2006 07:45 PM Oh for pete's sake. Mckenzie's own website (http://www.dennismckenzie.com/main.html) includes: (1) One of the three different pictures he made of BTK: http://www.tonyyouens.com/Images/btk2mckenzie.jpg (2) A photograph of BTK: http://www.tonyyouens.com/Images/rader.jpg (3) A claim that he was "incredibly accurate and correct". So it turns out he's insane ... but it's a profitable sort of insanity. Meanwhile here am I stuck with this crazy urge to howl and bang my head against a wall, and can I make a thin dime out of that? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 308] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 07:47 PM Hurry up, Kell! You're getting Left Behind! I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where Kelly said she believed in the rapture. Perhaps you could point that one out? Or how that joke is relevant to this thread's purpose and discussion? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 309] Author : Mariah Date : 6th March 2006 08:06 PM I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where Kelly said she believed in the rapture. Perhaps you could point that one out? Or how that joke is relevant to this thread's purpose and discussion? Kelly enjoys a little humor every once in a while. She told me so in a PM. I've helped her plenty, myself. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 310] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 08:22 PM I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where Kelly said she believed in the rapture. Perhaps you could point that one out? Or how that joke is relevant to this thread's purpose and discussion? Kelly enjoys a little humor every once in a while. She told me so in a PM. I've helped her plenty, myself. While I am not opposed to a little humor, I am a bit sensitive about the appearance of attacking's someone's beliefs off topic from their purpose in posting here. Kelly was rather nervous posting on a board with so many athiests that she would be under attack for her religion. I just wanted to be sure it was clear to her that no one's intent is attacking beliefs off topic or without the invitation of debate. I apologize for the rash response, and I hope you understand my concern. Kelly's contributions here are important and welcome, and I want to be sure she knows that her religion is not under attack. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 311] Author : Luke T. Date : 6th March 2006 08:29 PM From the article I just wrote, an excerpt: There are a lot of ways a news outlet can redraw attention to a missing persons case. Publish the missing person’s photos. Give all the details of the disappearance that are known. Interview the police to see what progress has been made. Be factual. A responsible news organization does not aid and abet the criminal by tripping the light fantastic through the Twilight Zone, casting suspicion on innocent people and relating events which in all likelihood contradict what was seen by potential witnesses in the viewing audience, thereby discouraging them from coming forward. Not when a life is at stake. Such gross irresponsibility is beyond the pale. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 312] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 08:31 PM From the article I just wrote, an excerpt: Excellent. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 313] Author : Mariah Date : 6th March 2006 08:34 PM I believe Kelly knows I'm THE LAST person who would ridicule her beliefs, and here, of all places. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 314] Author : Hawk one Date : 6th March 2006 08:36 PM OK, so it's kiss and make up time, and then back on track. Right? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 315] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 08:37 PM OK, so it's kiss and make up time, and then back on track. Right? But I have a cold sore! Sorry for the derail. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 316] Author : Mariah Date : 6th March 2006 08:49 PM Seriously... there's nothing worse than a "butthead for Jesus". ??? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 317] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 08:51 PM Seriously... there's nothing worse than a "butthead for Jesus". ??? I'm missing the point there. Perhaps we can avoid derailing the thread further and you could PM your question about things in my sig line. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 318] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 09:02 PM Ok, I'm back and will work to catch up with everyone here. Just to set the record straight, I have conversed with several of you about my beliefs, and yes, that nervousness about being in the "lion's den". Those fears were unfounded, and no one has fired a volley my way. The lions ended up being pussycats. :) You guys will really get a kick out of this, but I had posted the same post#1 on a major Catholic forum, and only had a few responses! Sometimes people just don't know what to say, I guess. I make them nervous in a different way. No one wants to be me, and sometimes it seems like having a missing child might be contagious. I do indeed have a sense of humor. Check out the humor thread if you don't believe it. Oh, and Left Behind is a silly, overwrought brand of Christian literature which has no basis in truth. Catholics do not believe in the "Rapture" in that way. I did find humor in Mariah's post. I was also very touched by FowlSound's care of my feelings. Everyone here has just been really wonderful to me. Thank you. Back to work for me now........ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 319] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 09:07 PM Ok, I'm back and will work to catch up with everyone here. Just to set the record straight, I have conversed with several of you about my beliefs, and yes, that nervousness about being in the "lion's den". Those fears were unfounded, and no one has fired a volley my way. The lions ended up being pussycats. :) You guys will really get a kick out of this, but I had posted the same post#1 on a major Catholic forum, and only had a few responses! Sometimes people just don't know what to say, I guess. I make them nervous in a different way. No one wants to be me, and sometimes it seems like having a missing child might be contagious. I do indeed have a sense of humor. Check out the humor thread if you don't believe it. Oh, and Left Behind is a silly, overwrought brand of Christian literature which has no basis in truth. Catholics do not believe in the "Rapture" in that way. I did find humor in Mariah's post. I was also very touched by FowlSound's care of my feelings. Everyone here has just been really wonderful to me. Thank you. Back to work for me now........ We're nowhere near as cute as pussycats. I do, however, enjoy a ball of yarn occasionally... I can empathise with the feeling that it may be contagious. I have a post in my blog about ridiculous reactions to cancer that is similar. I am surprised though, that the Catholic forum did not offer a big response. I can't imagine that they wouldn't see this as the opportunity this forum has to do something to make a difference for the better. Oh well. Where's my yarn? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 320] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 09:15 PM SkepticWiki now has an article. Psychic Detectives I found the links by searching this forum for threads with the word "detective" in them. Ah, yes, I remember Lucianarchy ... oh the fun we had ... Here's a good bit from one of the links: * sniggers * Professionals Against Confidence Crime (http://pac-c.org/police%20&%20psychics.htm) is a nice authoritative source. Please let me know when the projected website is up and running, and about the Tony Youens article when it materializes, and I can add links. Is there anything else I should add? Both good links. I really liked the second one as it is LE (Law Enforcement) related. This is the first I have seen of this type of article. I think it also plays a part in adding credibilty to the voices of reason. The last line of the article said it all. Thanks, Dr. A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 321] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 09:17 PM We're nowhere near as cute as pussycats. I do, however, enjoy a ball of yarn occasionally... I can empathise with the feeling that it may be contagious. I have a post in my blog about ridiculous reactions to cancer that is similar. I am surprised though, that the Catholic forum did not offer a big response. I can't imagine that they wouldn't see this as the opportunity this forum has to do something to make a difference for the better. Oh well. Where's my yarn? Interesting about the reactions to cancer as well. I figured I would at least get a bunch of "so sorry's" on the forum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 322] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 09:19 PM Interesting about the reactions to cancer as well. I figured I would at least get a bunch of "so sorry's" on the forum. I think any subject that plays into very basic fears we have will garner the same type of aversion from those not directly exposed to it, generally. ETA: By the way, blue is blue. Signed, Captain Obvious. (yeesh. That's what I get for waxing philisophical on an hour of sleep for the past 3 days.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 323] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 09:32 PM Just about anything involving Dennis Mackenzie. A nasty piece of work who everyone should be warned about. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28352&highlight=dennis+mackenzie Another old thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34908&highlight=dennis+mackenzie I wish psychics could help police. Oh how I wish that. I just no longer understand how anyone can believe they do. I never heard of MacKenzie, but perhaps because he is from the UK. As I go back through this thread, I take another look and see if it can blend in with the story. There were some more excellent links on the second thread about LE and psychics. Now if I only knew a retired cop who can write! Regardless, this aspect of things will make for a well-rounded series. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 324] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 09:40 PM Kelly, if you can ask someone who has been solicited by a psychic to find their missing loved one to recollect as accurately as possible what was said/claimed by the psychic in the conversation, I will be happy to write a Self-Defense Course on how to handle such calls. The more input you can collect from various people, the better. That way we can get an idea of the typical sales pitch. I imagine the psychics claim to have worked with the police and to have "helped" find missing children/loved ones, and so on. I would write such an article along these lines: If a psychic calls you to offer their services, here are the following steps you should take... 1. Hang up. :) Of course, I would go into more than that. I would arm them with questions to ask the psychic. Name the children you found. Name the police you helped. Dates, places, etc. Were you credited in any media reports? Which ones? Dates. Do you have ANY references at all, you freaking creep? You get the idea. Yep, I get the idea. To backtrack, the original idea for the dialog was for a dialog as the "reading" is taking place. This dialog would clearly show the reader when the psychic is using certain methods, such as shotgunning and intimidation to make the victim find a fit, etc, etc. What you suggest is also excellent. So far, I don't really have much of the pre-event info. One man told me that he's had the guilt trip business in which they state things like: "I won't be able to sleep until I talk to you." I seem to recall having this happen to me on at least one occasion. I've also had them insinuate that I must not care about finding Jason, otherwise I would jump at the offer. This again was coupled with the "just one conversation" plea. I wish I had more on that one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 325] Author : Ducky Date : 6th March 2006 09:42 PM I've also had them insinuate that I must not care about finding Jason, otherwise I would jump at the offer. This again was coupled with the "just one conversation" plea. I wish I had more on that one. :jaw-dropp Had I been in your shoes I would have been hard pressed not to unleash a can of verbal whoop-ass. But then I am not shy about letting loose verbally about things. I know. I know. Shocking, isn't it? Seriouosly, is there a way to poll families on this? Perhaps some phone legwork can be done? I'm willing to call and email and gather info on this if needed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 326] Author : Gr8wight Date : 6th March 2006 09:47 PM You guys will really get a kick out of this, but I had posted the same post#1 on a major Catholic forum, and only had a few responses! Sometimes people just don't know what to say, I guess. I suspect you got very little response from people on the catholic message board because there are a large proportion of people there who believe in psychics. I married into a catholic family, and my experience is that they are all very credulous. My mother-in-law goes a psychic regularly. My wife, a professional businesswoman has even gone to one, and been astounded by the accuracy of what she heard. Of course, this was the same psychic that her mother and other family members had been to. Can you say hot reading? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 327] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 09:55 PM Here's the really sick part, Kelly, which I am sure you know: Psychics count on the missing person and person who took them never being found. The odds are in their favor. They can make all kinds of wild claims about activities that occurred surrounding the disappearance with the knowledge that the odds are in their favor. And even if the missing person is found, or the kidnapper caught, no one will remember how far off the psychic was except the immediate family and they aren't going to have the resources to make that knowledge public. That's what makes the Elizabeth Smart Psi-Tch case so great. She was found alive and none of the events Psi-Tech remotely viewed were remotely correct. It was a spectacular and public failure. And boy did they scurry to cover it up! To no avail. So use it. Like a hammer. OH, boy, did I get a good one in today. It is about a missing/then found murdered young mother. She was found a couple of months after she was missing. Since it was not such a long time ago, the friend was able to recall quite a few of the stories. I think this one is going to rock the house. I already know the story and it brought a tear to my eye. It fits right into what you are saying in your 1st paragraph. I read the Psi-Tech report a long time ago. I'm glad it was brought up again here, because, yes, it is a good example. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 328] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 09:58 PM :jaw-dropp Had I been in your shoes I would have been hard pressed not to unleash a can of verbal whoop-ass. But then I am not shy about letting loose verbally about things. I know. I know. Shocking, isn't it? Seriouosly, is there a way to poll families on this? Perhaps some phone legwork can be done? I'm willing to call and email and gather info on this if needed. I can send out an email poll, yes. You know, if it wasn't for my position as the leader of an org, I would let loose on them. I have to remain calm and respectful at all times. :( In one of my stories though, I do let lose and use the F-bomb. I had to. It was awful. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 329] Author : delphi_ote Date : 6th March 2006 10:02 PM I suspect you got very little response from people on the catholic message board because there are a large proportion of people there who believe in psychics. I married into a catholic family, and my experience is that they are all very credulous. My mother-in-law goes a psychic regularly. My wife, a professional businesswoman has even gone to one, and been astounded by the accuracy of what she heard. Of course, this was the same psychic that her mother and other family members had been to. Can you say hot reading? *hands to temples* I'm getting something... you're a married male from Ontario... you have a child whose name starts with... with an "M"... you enjoy two things that begin with the letter "B"... you drink one while you listen to the other... Hot reading is fun! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 330] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 10:03 PM I suspect you got very little response from people on the catholic message board because there are a large proportion of people there who believe in psychics. I married into a catholic family, and my experience is that they are all very credulous. My mother-in-law goes a psychic regularly. My wife, a professional businesswoman has even gone to one, and been astounded by the accuracy of what she heard. Of course, this was the same psychic that her mother and other family members had been to. Can you say hot reading? I didn't even recognize you without the hat! I even said to myself: "Oh, a new person." Thanks for the nice write-up. I did see several hits coming from there today. My site meter is open, so you can view it if you're curious. Yes, in my family, several believe, although no one visits them. The one I mention in post #1 cannot be swayed. :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 331] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 10:08 PM Okay, Kelly. I have just written a two page article on the Kimberly Forbes missing person case and the psychic hired by the TV station. I titled it "But The News Said Psychics Are Real!" Just tell me where to email it if you want it. You can do whatever you want with it. All rights, etc., etc., are yours. All I ask is that if you credit it to me, that the byline say "Luke T." I don't use my whole name in public venues for personal security reasons. I Pm'd you with my email. This will be a great addition. Slap the media in the face about this. They need a wake-up call, too. And, yes, everyone should follow your lead and write and complain when the media gives psychics credibility. Thank you! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 332] Author : Gr8wight Date : 6th March 2006 10:09 PM *hands to temples* I'm getting something... you're a married male from Ontario... you have a child whose name starts with... with an "M"... you enjoy two things that begin with the letter "B"... you drink one while you listen to the other... Oh. My. God!!!!eleventyone How did you know all that. It's almost like you could go somewhere and read about me. Freaky, man. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 333] Author : delphi_ote Date : 6th March 2006 10:14 PM Oh. My. God!!!!eleventyone How did you know all that. It's almost like you could go somewhere and read about me. Freaky, man. I call that place "The Aurora Walking Spirit Vacation Realm." Think I could get my own TV show like John Edwards? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 334] Author : Kelly Date : 6th March 2006 10:15 PM I found a piece by Tony Youens (http://www.tonyyouens.com/commentary.htm#mckenzie) about him and have put in a link. Interesting, as is the part about BTK. The sketches are obviously way off. Edited to add: I think I am done catching up. If I forgot something you asked or needed a response on, please remind me. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 335] Author : a_unique_person Date : 7th March 2006 04:28 AM There was an absolutely disgraceful TV series on Australian television not so long ago. They had 'psychics' doing a 'cold case' on an unsolved murder of a young girl. The family, distraught at the memories of the place they lived in, moved interstate. One of the psychics (none of whom actually provided any 'evidence' beyond what was already well known in the public domain, btw), had the gall to say that they could sense the dead girls spirit, and she was sad because she was now all alone since they had moved away. I could not believe they actually screened that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 336] Author : chillzero Date : 7th March 2006 06:17 AM [QUOTE=KellyJ;1489849]You know, if it wasn't for my position as the leader of an org, I would let loose on them. I have to remain calm and respectful at all times. :( QUOTE] You need to have someone like Kramer to hand. :D oh - pick me! pick me!! (actually, Luke T or FowlSound always manage to word things better than I do - pick them :)) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 337] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 07:17 AM There was an absolutely disgraceful TV series on Australian television not so long ago. They had 'psychics' doing a 'cold case' on an unsolved murder of a young girl. The family, distraught at the memories of the place they lived in, moved interstate. One of the psychics (none of whom actually provided any 'evidence' beyond what was already well known in the public domain, btw), had the gall to say that they could sense the dead girls spirit, and she was sad because she was now all alone since they had moved away. I could not believe they actually screened that. That's awful. Shame on that show. It's a rating racket, alright. Someone else prompted about Daniel Morcombe's story. I'm going to try to remember ot email their family tonight and see if they want to say anything. I know they've had some leeches, too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 338] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 07:20 AM [QUOTE=KellyJ;1489849]You know, if it wasn't for my position as the leader of an org, I would let loose on them. I have to remain calm and respectful at all times. :( QUOTE] You need to have someone like Kramer to hand. :D oh - pick me! pick me!! (actually, Luke T or FowlSound always manage to word things better than I do - pick them :)) Hi Poster Formerly Known as Cabby! That is a good idea to have a psychic isssue spokesperson. I might want to be able to forward emails to them if people ignore my request not to email me about these issues. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 339] Author : Luke T. Date : 7th March 2006 07:24 AM OH, boy, did I get a good one in today. It is about a missing/then found murdered young mother. She was found a couple of months after she was missing. Since it was not such a long time ago, the friend was able to recall quite a few of the stories. I think this one is going to rock the house. I already know the story and it brought a tear to my eye. It fits right into what you are saying in your 1st paragraph. Outstanding! Can't wait to see it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 340] Author : Luke T. Date : 7th March 2006 07:34 AM I Pm'd you with my email. This will be a great addition. Slap the media in the face about this. They need a wake-up call, too. Done. Just shipped it to your email address. And, yes, everyone should follow your lead and write and complain when the media gives psychics credibility. Yes. Email reporters and help them understand this is not harmless entertainment. A factual report may trigger a memory in a witness in the viewing audience and help break the case. A psychic making up events surrounding a case which did not actually occur may actually PREVENT a potential witness viewer from recalling an important clue. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 341] Author : Gr8wight Date : 7th March 2006 08:06 AM Kelly, I e-mailed the organizer of a blog carnival called The Skeptics' Circle (http://skepticscircle.blogspot.com/), and I believe your series will get a mention (and a link) in the next edition, which will be published March 16th at Paige's Page (http://paiges-page.net/). Two things: 1) Yes this is somewhat preaching to the choir, in that most of the readers will already be skeptics, but a wider audience in general can only be good for Project Jason (IMHO). 2) As most of the readers will already be skeptics, it may subject your religious beliefs to some comment. I hope that is kept to a minimum, and that the skeptical community at large can live up to the level of respect you have received here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 342] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 08:41 AM Check out this new blog comment: "What about the series on court tv called "Psychic Detectives"? Is that all a farce? Some of cases show how the psychics led the detectives to solve the crime. Just a thought after reading your post. I too am a new reader and don't know what NCMEC stands for. I saw your post at the court tv message board. I will follow the blog with interest and hope others will too. I hope it can save someone else some of the heartache you have endured." Hey, if it's on TV, it's real, right? Is there an article specifically about that show? (debunking) I did, BTW, edit NCMEC and wrote it out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 343] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 09:06 AM Kelly, I e-mailed the organizer of a blog carnival called The Skeptics' Circle (http://skepticscircle.blogspot.com/), and I believe your series will get a mention (and a link) in the next edition, which will be published March 16th at Paige's Page (http://paiges-page.net/). Two things: 1) Yes this is somewhat preaching to the choir, in that most of the readers will already be skeptics, but a wider audience in general can only be good for Project Jason (IMHO). 2) As most of the readers will already be skeptics, it may subject your religious beliefs to some comment. I hope that is kept to a minimum, and that the skeptical community at large can live up to the level of respect you have received here. On 1) Yes, I agree. People need to be educated on these issues. They need to know what to do and where to go. We service all walks of life, all faiths and beliefs. (I don't mention religion to our families unless they bring it up first.) I'll bet most of you had no idea about the plight of the missing before I came. Truly, time is such and enemy when you have a missing person, and if you know who to call, it can make a difference. 2) If they should give me grief, I will read with one eye closed! What's important is to get the info out there. These are excellent, excellent ideas. Thank you for the action. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 344] Author : Luke T. Date : 7th March 2006 09:07 AM Check out this new blog comment: "What about the series on court tv called "Psychic Detectives"? Is that all a farce? Some of cases show how the psychics led the detectives to solve the crime. Just a thought after reading your post. I too am a new reader and don't know what NCMEC stands for. I saw your post at the court tv message board. I will follow the blog with interest and hope others will too. I hope it can save someone else some of the heartache you have endured." Hey, if it's on TV, it's real, right? Is there an article specifically about that show? (debunking) I did, BTW, edit NCMEC and wrote it out. The frustrating thing about TV Shows like "Psychic Detectives" is that the presenter is so obviously biased toward believing in psychic phenomena. And there is no way to know what information they have deliberately withheld, or chosen not to pursue, that might cast doubt on the psychics. Usually. Fortunately, some members of this forum were able to find a deliberate case of biased reporting and withholding of vital information in one psychic detective showcase. Read this topic (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=585037) to learn about it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 345] Author : JPK Date : 7th March 2006 09:22 AM Good morning. I actually like to watch the show Psychic Detectives. It is a shame that it is on Court TV since it totally mocks the hard work and real investigative skills that law enforcement do use. Sci Fi or Comedy Channel might be a better choice. If you watch the shows carefully and don't get sidetracked by the trippy sound effects and dizzing camera effects, like when they go spinning around the alleged psychic, you will notice that inspite of the biased and unfair editing, the psychic doesn't actually solve the case. Lot's of after the fact declarations though. JPK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 346] Author : Luke T. Date : 7th March 2006 09:59 AM Interesting about the reactions to cancer as well. I figured I would at least get a bunch of "so sorry's" on the forum. It doesn't say anything good or bad about the Catholic forum that they were unable to help. They just don't have the skill set that is needed. And as RSLancaster has shown with his efforts to stop Kaz, even people of faith appreciate efforts to expose frauds. "Progress, not perfection". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 347] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 10:08 AM Fortunately, some members of this forum were able to find a deliberate case of biased reporting and withholding of vital information in one psychic detective showcase. Read this topic (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=585037) to learn about it. I posted that link on the comments section for that person. I see our thaiboxerken has been there as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 348] Author : Luke T. Date : 7th March 2006 10:13 AM I posted that link on the comments section for that person. I see our thaiboxerken has been there as well. Thaiboxerken is our man on the scene at Court TV. :D Nobody has a better handle on that situation than he does. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 349] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 10:16 AM Good morning to you JPK. I posted on that specific Catholic forum because it is fairly good size and because in my keyword search for "psychic", I found there were a few psychics posting there who had come clean. I thought some "conversion" stories would be a good thing to add in. I was still also hoping to find the psychologist person to shed light on the guilt angle. I knew this was the best place for the debunking apsect of things. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 350] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 10:20 AM Thaiboxerken is our man on the scene at Court TV. :D Nobody has a better handle on that situation than he does. I believe he said they banned him. I posted my link on the thread he frequented and they just dismissed me without a second thought and continued on with their chit-chat. :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 351] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 12:24 PM Someone posted on one of my outside threads about a psychic named Nancy Myer. I thought someone had posted about her on this subforum, but a search proved fruitless. Does anyone have a quick link to her shenanigans? Thanks, Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 352] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 7th March 2006 12:49 PM Both good links. I really liked the second one as it is LE (Law Enforcement) related. This is the first I have seen of this type of article. I think it also plays a part in adding credibilty to the voices of reason. The last line of the article said it all. Thanks, Dr. A. Well, thank you. If it wasn't for people such as yourself, with first hand experience, telling people the score, then there'd be no data except a lot of silly news stories and skeptics would have nothing to answer them with. Also, it's nice to feel useful ... it's not often that people think "What I need is a bunch of skeptics". Which is a shame considering how often that's exactly what they need. As far as your Catholic forum goes, as Luke says, they don't have the skill set ... or the experience. To put together the SkepticWiki article, all I had to do was look in the threads where we'd already given psychic detectives a good drubbing, and follow the links. For some excellent Catholic skepticism, try the Father Brown stories (http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/c) by G K Chesterton. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 353] Author : Luke T. Date : 7th March 2006 12:52 PM Someone posted on one of my outside threads about a psychic named Nancy Myer. I thought someone had posted about her on this subforum, but a search proved fruitless. Does anyone have a quick link to her shenanigans? Thanks, Kelly The article I emailed you is about Nancy Myer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 354] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 7th March 2006 01:01 PM That's lucky ... That reminds me. Let me know whre the article appears so that SW can link to it. I do give one example of a psychic manipulating the media ... that quote from KlaasKids. Unbelievable. Apparently you can just walk into a TV station and say "Hello, I have magical crime-fighting abilities", and instead of the journalists checking your story, which is their job, they reply: "Please let us give you five minutes of free advertising disguised as news". If they need to pad their program out with novelty acts, they should get a juggler. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 355] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 01:15 PM The article I emailed you is about Nancy Myer. Oh my! I have to laugh at myself. I was thinking that I knew I just read something about her, but thought it was on the forum or in a link someone provided. You must think me a ditz! The truth be known....I need a bit more sleep tonight. Data Overload! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 356] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 01:26 PM That's lucky ... That reminds me. Let me know whre the article appears so that SW can link to it. I do give one example of a psychic manipulating the media ... that quote from KlaasKids. Unbelievable. Apparently you can just walk into a TV station and say "Hello, I have magical crime-fighting abilities", and instead of the journalists checking your story, which is their job, they reply: "Please let us give you five minutes of free advertising disguised as news". If they need to pad their program out with novelty acts, they should get a juggler. We'll let you know the link, you bet. Little by little, we're building a good base of information about our topic. I'm good buds with Marc Klaas' right hand man. He is going to get me something from Marc...not sure how much as he is so busy. You hit the nail on the head. (bolded info) We have some excellent teamwork going here, Dr. A. I also like the way the new discussions on this subforum are going: heavy hitting, but fair debating. Other than Marc Klaas firm stand, and NCMEC's statement, I do not know of any missing person org who has tackled this issue in such an upfront way. I definetely don't know of any who are presenting real stories. This is groundbreaking, don't you think? (Or am I just a dreamer?) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 357] Author : Luke T. Date : 7th March 2006 01:41 PM Oh my! I have to laugh at myself. I was thinking that I knew I just read something about her, but thought it was on the forum or in a link someone provided. You must think me a ditz! The truth be known....I need a bit more sleep tonight. Data Overload! :D I don't think you a ditz at all. In fact, between all the links here that people have been posting, and the links and information and article I have sent you by email, all of which you have read, I have been astonished at your level of absorption. Data overload, for sure. And entirely understandable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 358] Author : CFLarsen Date : 7th March 2006 01:46 PM You must think me a ditz! Oh, no. (scurries away) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 359] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 02:01 PM Oh, no. (scurries away) You'd better run fast, Claus!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 360] Author : Ducky Date : 7th March 2006 02:03 PM You'd better run fast, Claus!! I have met Claus, and I can attest he scurries faster than the average person. Especially when arranging a dinner with too many people... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 361] Author : CFLarsen Date : 7th March 2006 02:05 PM You'd better run fast, Claus!! Have you done your own work on this site we have been working on? No? Eh? Get crackin', then... :p -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 362] Author : George 152 Date : 7th March 2006 02:13 PM I can think of a missing persons case involving Sylvia Browne. About ten years ago, she was on the Montel Williams show, talking about missing persons cases. One case involved that bass player from Iron Butterfly, who had gone missing a year or so earlier. Anyway, Sylvia claimed she saw him being kidnapped and taken aboard a boat. She also said he was probably dead,which seemed very cruel of her to say. A couple of years later, his remains were found: http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,4843,00.html I don't recall any news stories about Sylvia Browne being wrong about this case, but maybe James Randi has better documentation in his files. Sylvia Browne is just a longwinded way of writing 'wrong' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 363] Author : CFLarsen Date : 7th March 2006 02:53 PM Sylvia Browne is just a longwinded way of writing 'wrong' Or "Fake". "Crook". "Cheat". "Raper of Sorrow". (OK, that was longer, but more precise, courtesy of LostAngeles) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 364] Author : Kelly Date : 7th March 2006 03:57 PM Have you done your own work on this site we have been working on? No? Eh? Get crackin', then... :p Slavedriver! :boggled: It won't be today, though, as I have a meeting that will last all evening long. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 365] Author : Gr8wight Date : 7th March 2006 05:06 PM I can think of a missing persons case involving Sylvia Browne. About ten years ago, she was on the Montel Williams show, talking about missing persons cases. One case involved that bass player from Iron Butterfly, who had gone missing a year or so earlier. Anyway, Sylvia claimed she saw him being kidnapped and taken aboard a boat. She also said he was probably dead,which seemed very cruel of her to say. A couple of years later, his remains were found: http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,4843,00.html I don't recall any news stories about Sylvia Browne being wrong about this case, but maybe James Randi has better documentation in his files. Hikers found the remains Saturday near a totaled 1993 Ford van at the bottom of a canyon, more than 400 feet below the nearby road, in Southern California's picturesque Malibu. Evidence suggests the crash was the result of a suicide mission, the Los Angeles Times says. Clearly, Sylvia got it all correct. His kidnappers sailed their boat up the road to where they had stashed an old Ford van, which they then forced him to commit suicide in. Yeah, that's how it happened. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 366] Author : Kelly Date : 8th March 2006 09:59 PM Anyone feel liike gently setting them straight? http://www.jenniferkesse.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 I don't have anything to do with this case. Someone just posted my blog link there, but I do not know who they are. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 367] Author : Ducky Date : 8th March 2006 10:03 PM Anyone feel liike gently setting them straight? http://www.jenniferkesse.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 I don't have anything to do with this case. Someone just posted my blog link there, but I do not know who they are. Well, I would, but I do not think I am the man for that job. Perhaps MRC_Hans would be a better choice. HIs display of civility against teh homeopaths is well known, even when most mere mortals would have let loose. I'll make a very polite post, and hope they don't come back angry. If they do I'll avoid the rest. No need to start flame wars on someone's missing persons forum. ETA: No I will not. Frankly what those people are doing by speculating places and names in that forum is rather insensitive to the family's situation, and they are true believers(TM). It would end in a nasty flame war. My heart goes out to that family, and I hope they do not fall prey to the guilt that would cause them to desperately use a psychic. I will not, however walk into a nest of snakes in their backyard if only to spare them an ugly happening on their own forum. Perhaps we can invite the believers in psychics over here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 368] Author : Kelly Date : 8th March 2006 10:25 PM No, we would never want to start a battle on a forum like that. I have no doubt that your observation is dead on. It would probably end up like CTV. I hope they will read the blog. It annoyed me there was even a person who admited to not being a psychic, and they were jumping all over that, too. :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 369] Author : Gr8wight Date : 9th March 2006 07:27 AM Anyone feel liike gently setting them straight? http://www.jenniferkesse.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 I don't have anything to do with this case. Someone just posted my blog link there, but I do not know who they are. It appears that forum has been taken down. Kelly's link takes me directy to the home page, where I can find no link to a forum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 370] Author : Kelly Date : 9th March 2006 07:36 AM It appears that forum has been taken down. Kelly's link takes me directy to the home page, where I can find no link to a forum. I wonder what happened? Oh, well. At least that person had our link up for awhile. Maybe someone in the family saw it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 371] Author : Luke T. Date : 9th March 2006 08:06 AM Anyone feel liike gently setting them straight? http://www.jenniferkesse.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 I don't have anything to do with this case. Someone just posted my blog link there, but I do not know who they are. Your link doesn't seem to work, but I found this: http://jenniferkesse.com/guestbook/ I heard on a radio program, the Philips Phile (104.1 FM), that there was a psychic called "Sunshine", who was calling and said that she knew where Jennifer was, etc., but that she didn't want to call the police and tell them because the police would not take her seriously. The members of the radio program, aired from 3-7 pm, took down her phone number, in case you want to call her. You can call the Philips Phile at 407-916-1041. Posted by "Anonymous". Yeah. I have responded at the end of the guest book entries and referred the family to this topic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 372] Author : Luke T. Date : 9th March 2006 08:15 AM Hm. I don't see my guestbook entry. Maybe there is a time delay when it posts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 373] Author : Kelly Date : 9th March 2006 09:35 AM Great idea to post that, Luke. It's probably a moderated guestbook. If the manager of it is a TB, we'll probably not see it. We can only try. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 374] Author : Luke T. Date : 9th March 2006 10:53 AM Great idea to post that, Luke. It's probably a moderated guestbook. If the manager of it is a TB, we'll probably not see it. We can only try. I'm tempted to call the phone number of that DJ (Philips Phile at 407-916-1041) and have a few words with him. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 375] Author : Kelly Date : 9th March 2006 10:55 AM I'm tempted to call the phone number of that DJ (Philips Phile at 407-916-1041) and have a few words with him. Be my guest. I know you will handle it appropriately, if you decide to make the call. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 376] Author : Orphia Nay Date : 9th March 2006 06:14 PM *pops up out of the woodwork* I have been following this thread, and though I have communicated my support, admiration and respect to KellyJ elsewhere, haven't had any practical suggestions. I am humbled to be a fellow member of such intelligent, caring, constructive and helpful forumites. It appears that forum has been taken down. Kelly's link takes me directy to the home page, where I can find no link to a forum. It's working for me. Here's a link to the thread in question (http://www.flfiesta.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=209&sid=ed87b3c9c4986087cb2a7f89ce7cc35c). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 377] Author : Ducky Date : 9th March 2006 06:18 PM *pops up out of the woodwork* I have been following this thread, and though I have communicated my support, admiration and respect to KellyJ elsewhere, haven't had any practical suggestions. I am humbled to be a fellow member of such intelligent, caring, constructive and helpful forumites. It's working for me. Here's a link to the thread in question (http://www.flfiesta.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=209&sid=ed87b3c9c4986087cb2a7f89ce7cc35c). Orph, yer a sweetheart :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 378] Author : Gr8wight Date : 9th March 2006 07:14 PM It's working for me. Here's a link to the thread in question (http://www.flfiesta.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=209&sid=ed87b3c9c4986087cb2a7f89ce7cc35c). Thanks for that, although when I went there, my heart fell. There is an entire section of the forum dedicated to psychics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 379] Author : Kelly Date : 9th March 2006 07:43 PM Thanks for that, although when I went there, my heart fell. There is an entire section of the forum dedicated to psychics. Not only that, but they appear to be listening to anyone who has some sort of vision. I don't think these are family members posting, but I also have no doubt that family members read this drivel. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 380] Author : Ducky Date : 9th March 2006 07:44 PM Not only that, but they appear to be listening to anyone who has some sort of vision. I don't think these are family members posting, but I also have no doubt that family members read this drivel. Well, without posts from the family we don't know if they are buying into it. they very well could be saying "oh look, another idiot with a psychic claim." At least I hope they are. Perhaps it would be best to invite those forum members over here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 381] Author : Kelly Date : 9th March 2006 07:50 PM Hm. I don't see my guestbook entry. Maybe there is a time delay when it posts. It's on there now, but appears to be cut off. http://jenniferkesse.com/guestbook/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 382] Author : Ducky Date : 9th March 2006 07:54 PM It's on there now, but appears to be cut off. http://jenniferkesse.com/guestbook/ There's alot of true believers there. I fear a skeptical point of view critical of psychics isn't going to be welcome much. From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 383] Author : Kelly Date : 9th March 2006 08:07 PM There's alot of true believers there. I fear a skeptical point of view critical of psychics isn't going to be welcome much. From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal. I think Luke's was cut off due to space. I signed it, too, but said nothing about psychics. If they do read that forum, they will probably recognize the name. In good news, our own Chillzero has submitted an excellent guest piece for the blog series! Thank you! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 384] Author : CFLarsen Date : 9th March 2006 11:43 PM From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal. If we can just get to that mild response, we have come far. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 385] Author : delphi_ote Date : 10th March 2006 12:12 AM From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal. It's more like we're treated as though we took a **** on the coats. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 386] Author : rjh01 Date : 10th March 2006 12:14 AM Another link to Lets Help Find Jennifer Kesse web site. This one takes you to the main forum page. http://jenniferkesse.org/forum/index.php?d=390a2d2a9d5e1b37e5e00a353bee4bdd I understand this is not authorised by the family. See http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2006/03/the_kesse_web_s.html#more -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 387] Author : Kelly Date : 10th March 2006 09:49 AM Another link to Lets Help Find Jennifer Kesse web site. This one takes you to the main forum page. http://jenniferkesse.org/forum/index.php?d=390a2d2a9d5e1b37e5e00a353bee4bdd I understand this is not authorised by the family. See http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2006/03/the_kesse_web_s.html#more Right. I heard there was a spat between the two. I am sure, however, that the family is still reading the other one. They would have a vested interest in what is going on with it. Thanks for the links. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 388] Author : Kelly Date : 10th March 2006 10:18 AM The blogger posting mechanism is down, and has been since last night. I am unable to post my next part in the series until they get it fixed again. :mad: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 389] Author : Kelly Date : 10th March 2006 12:03 PM Someone posted an article about my series on a science blog. They did an excellent intro. Does anyone know who this is? http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/project_jason_psychics_and_mis_1.php The Blogger uploader is still down. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 390] Author : sophia8 Date : 10th March 2006 12:20 PM Someone posted an article about my series on a science blog. They did an excellent intro. Does anyone know who this is? http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/project_jason_psychics_and_mis_1.php That's Orac - he mostly attacks medical fraud and quackery, as you'd expect, but he sometimes takes a break to give a polished slapdown to other frauds as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 391] Author : Kelly Date : 10th March 2006 12:42 PM That's Orac - he mostly attacks medical fraud and quackery, as you'd expect, but he sometimes takes a break to give a polished slapdown to other frauds as well. Thank you for letting me know. It is indeed polished. I'll have to hunt him down and thank him later on. I'm off on some errands and I have a press conference early this evening on a local case of a missing child. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 392] Author : Kelly Date : 11th March 2006 08:04 AM It appears that Blogger finally completed their repairs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 393] Author : Kelly Date : 11th March 2006 06:33 PM I just received today and was given permission to use a IM dialog between a psychic and one of our family members. It's somewhat long and shows the psychic is wrong about numerous things throughout, generally ignoring the wrongs or trying to make excuses. It would be highly entertaining if not for the subject matter. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 394] Author : Gr8wight Date : 12th March 2006 08:08 AM Someone posted an article about my series on a science blog. They did an excellent intro. Does anyone know who this is? http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/project_jason_psychics_and_mis_1.php The Blogger uploader is still down. Orac was the person I mentioned earlier. I sent him the link. He put me off, by saying he would forward it to the next Skeptics' Circle host. I presume he read the first couple of posts and decided to mention it earlier. I thanked him in his comment thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 395] Author : Kelly Date : 12th March 2006 09:49 AM Orac was the person I mentioned earlier. I sent him the link. He put me off, by saying he would forward it to the next Skeptics' Circle host. I presume he read the first couple of posts and decided to mention it earlier. I thanked him in his comment thread. I thought that was you. I thanked him as well. Quite a few hits are coming from there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 396] Author : Gr8wight Date : 12th March 2006 03:23 PM I thought that was you. I thanked him as well. Quite a few hits are coming from there. He has a big readership. I wonder if we can get Dr. Myers from Pharyngula to give you a mention? He's got one of the largest readerships in the skeptical and scientific blogosphere. I'll pop a note off to him tonight. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 397] Author : Kelly Date : 12th March 2006 05:36 PM He has a big readership. I wonder if we can get Dr. Myers from Pharyngula to give you a mention? He's got one of the largest readerships in the skeptical and scientific blogosphere. I'll pop a note off to him tonight. I don't mind links. That will be interesting if he does post it, as he appears to be pretty much anti-religion. He may be like Susan Blackmore about not wanting association unless disclaimers are used. It's his call, of course. I am trying to present this and keep religion out of it unless it goes with what I am writing. Family members sharing stories may include statements about religion, and I will not edit. I also have planned a guest writer who will present the Christian viewpoint on why we as beleivers, are not to use psychics or things like tarot cards and oiujia boards, etc. Overall, it's a well balanced presentation in my opinion. Thank you! Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 398] Author : Gr8wight Date : 12th March 2006 07:17 PM I don't mind links. That will be interesting if he does post it, as he appears to be pretty much anti-religion. He may be like Susan Blackmore about not wanting association unless disclaimers are used. It's his call, of course. I am trying to present this and keep religion out of it unless it goes with what I am writing. Family members sharing stories may include statements about religion, and I will not edit. I also have planned a guest writer who will present the Christian viewpoint on why we as beleivers, are not to use psychics or things like tarot cards and oiujia boards, etc. Overall, it's a well balanced presentation in my opinion. Thank you! Kelly Yes, PZ is an avowed atheist. However, he is against stupidity more than anything else. His beef is only with those who insist on a literal interpretation of the bible (specifically Young earth Creationism) despite all evidence to the contrary. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 399] Author : Luke T. Date : 13th March 2006 07:26 AM There's a few things I would like to have. 1) A dialog between a missing person family and a psychic that shows the methods the psychic uses to extract information and convince the family that they really do have paranormal abilities. I just received today and was given permission to use a IM dialog between a psychic and one of our family members. It's somewhat long and shows the psychic is wrong about numerous things throughout, generally ignoring the wrongs or trying to make excuses. It would be highly entertaining if not for the subject matter. Now we're getting somewhere. The longer the diaolog, the better. It shows how a psychic will use maxiumum verbosity, counting on the victim to remember the hits and forget the misses. I read your encounter with Sharon Nolte. Three hours! Same thing. Gibber on incessantly, using what information you gave her to weave a giant tapestry of B.S. in the hopes something will ring "true" for you later on, or to plant an idea in your head that just won't go away, causing you to seek confirmation. Any chance we can take a look at this IM dialog? It should be made public, and let me tell you why. About ten years ago, my wife was working as a server at a restaurant owned by a guy who believed in psychics. One day, he told his employees that he was bringing a psychic in to do readings for everyone, and that it would cost 35 dollars. Creep. My wife and I weren't married at the time, but we were in a serious relationship. When she told me about this psychic business, I gave her my strong opinion about the matter. However, my wife was going through an extremely dark period at the time. Her father had just died suddenly, and her mother was dying from cancer. So she was vulnerable to psychics, and sat for a reading. She came home with all kinds of bugaboos in her head, one of which was an obsession with the number 5. The psychic had played up the number 5 as being of significance. Of course, when someone plants such an idea in your head, you see 5's everywhere. Oooh! See? She was right! Anyway, there was no JREF forum back then, but there was a randi.org. And Randi had a sample psychic reading on this site. So I sat my wife down at the computer and called up the sample reading. Of course, it bore a remarkable resemblance to the psychic reading she had just received a few days before. 30 seconds later, my wife was converted and ready to take a shotgun to the psychic's face. That's why any dialog you have, Kelly, is of utmost importance. It will help other people see it's all the same old B.S. If they have heard it before, they will recognize it immediately. If they haven't heard it yet, they will recognize it when they hear it again. Either way, it will snap people back to reality. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 400] Author : Roadtoad Date : 13th March 2006 07:55 AM I ought to mention, Kelly, I put a mention of your site on the EveryTruckJob.com forum. Hopefully, that will generate some more hits, and get the word out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 401] Author : YoPopa Date : 13th March 2006 08:15 AM Kelly, My admiration for the work you are doing and my sympathy for the circumstances that led you into it. As of this morning, 3/13, it appears that psychicpredators.com is still not registered. I have heard rumors that squatters will sometimes register a name just because they have sniffed interest in the name by someone else. I don't know if that rumor is valid but you don't need to take the risk. I'm sure that if you delegate the task to one of our members who has volunteered that it could be registered today. I will add my name to the list of volunteers for that task if the others are preoccupied with jobs you've already assigned. P.S. I also favor the name secondwavepredators.com .org .whatever -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 402] Author : Kelly Date : 13th March 2006 12:05 PM I ought to mention, Kelly, I put a mention of your site on the EveryTruckJob.com forum. Hopefully, that will generate some more hits, and get the word out. Thanks, RT...you da truckin man. Since we do interface with the trucking industry because of our 18 Wheel Angels program, they should have at least heard of us, but not in this respect. I hope things are going better for you. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 403] Author : Kelly Date : 13th March 2006 12:08 PM Kelly, My admiration for the work you are doing and my sympathy for the circumstances that led you into it. As of this morning, 3/13, it appears that psychicpredators.com is still not registered. I have heard rumors that squatters will sometimes register a name just because they have sniffed interest in the name by someone else. I don't know if that rumor is valid but you don't need to take the risk. I'm sure that if you delegate the task to one of our members who has volunteered that it could be registered today. I will add my name to the list of volunteers for that task if the others are preoccupied with jobs you've already assigned. P.S. I also favor the name secondwavepredators.com .org .whatever FowlSound, FowlSound, where fore art thou, FowlSound? He's locked in a domain name, but needed to convince GoDaddy to allow a slight change which would be psychicpredators.com. Hopefully, they will do so before someone snatches the name. Thank you for the reminder and for the well wishes. Claus and FS are the primaries on the website work. Feel free to see if they need any extra help with that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 404] Author : Kelly Date : 13th March 2006 12:14 PM Now we're getting somewhere. The longer the diaolog, the better. It shows how a psychic will use maxiumum verbosity, counting on the victim to remember the hits and forget the misses. I read your encounter with Sharon Nolte. Three hours! Same thing. Gibber on incessantly, using what information you gave her to weave a giant tapestry of B.S. in the hopes something will ring "true" for you later on, or to plant an idea in your head that just won't go away, causing you to seek confirmation. Any chance we can take a look at this IM dialog? It should be made public, and let me tell you why. That's why any dialog you have, Kelly, is of utmost importance. It will help other people see it's all the same old B.S. If they have heard it before, they will recognize it immediately. If they haven't heard it yet, they will recognize it when they hear it again. Either way, it will snap people back to reality. HI Luke, The family did give permission to share it on the blog. I did email it to Meg as (I believe) she is going to place commentary within to demonstrate what the psychic is trying to pull on the family member. If you would like to look at it, too, and maybe collaborate with Meg, I would be happy to email it to you. Do you think I should publish it here, too? I wouldn't be able to do either one until this evening, as I cannot access my read home emails from work. I'm sorry for all that your wife went through, but glad you wre able to help her see the light. I am surprised I see nothing else about SN online. You'd think she'd be in the news now and then, wouldn't you? :mad: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 405] Author : Luke T. Date : 13th March 2006 12:54 PM HI Luke, The family did give permission to share it on the blog. I did email it to Meg as (I believe) she is going to place commentary within to demonstrate what the psychic is trying to pull on the family member. If you would like to look at it, too, and maybe collaborate with Meg, I would be happy to email it to you. Okay, email it to me. I will PM Meg to see if she wants any help. I am surprised I see nothing else about SN online. You'd think she'd be in the news now and then, wouldn't you? :mad: For a psychic, even bad press is good press. The less she is in the news, the better. It means she isn't getting any traction. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 406] Author : RSLancastr Date : 13th March 2006 06:10 PM I haven't been in this, the "General Skepticism" part of the JREF board in a couple of weeks, and so had not seen this thread until KellyJ won the February Language award (congratulations by the way - well-deserved!). I've just got to say how proud I am to be a part of this forum. What you people are all pulling together here, with Kelly at the helm, is nothing less than wonderful. And it will help countless more people than the StopKaz site ever will, since the topic is, sadly, something which effects far more people. For months, I've been thinking about what I might do next, now that Kaz is laying low. And a site about psychics was high on my list of possibilities. But with Kelly's perspective and expertise, she makes this project far more credible and meaningful than it would be from a generic skeptical perspective such as mine. She obviously has the passion and drive to make it work, and with the forum gang behind her, I expect this to be a site that will really make a difference in a lot of lives. Kelly, for you to have taken such pain and suffering and used them to fuel the positive things you do is an inspiration. If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already. -RSL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 407] Author : Luke T. Date : 13th March 2006 06:16 PM Woo hoo! (http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/nancymyer.htm) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 408] Author : Luke T. Date : 13th March 2006 06:18 PM If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already. Kelly, this man's kung fu is too strong for charlatans. If you need someone to nail a psychic to the wall, this is your guy. Someone like that Nolte character is right up his alley. In fact, when I read your blog entry about her and the claims she made (related to Nick Nolte), I immediately thought of RSL and Kaz DeMille and her similar claims. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 409] Author : Kelly Date : 13th March 2006 09:04 PM I haven't been in this, the "General Skepticism" part of the JREF board in a couple of weeks, and so had not seen this thread until KellyJ won the February Language award (congratulations by the way - well-deserved!). I've just got to say how proud I am to be a part of this forum. What you people are all pulling together here, with Kelly at the helm, is nothing less than wonderful. And it will help countless more people than the StopKaz site ever will, since the topic is, sadly, something which effects far more people. For months, I've been thinking about what I might do next, now that Kaz is laying low. And a site about psychics was high on my list of possibilities. But with Kelly's perspective and expertise, she makes this project far more credible and meaningful than it would be from a generic skeptical perspective such as mine. She obviously has the passion and drive to make it work, and with the forum gang behind her, I expect this to be a site that will really make a difference in a lot of lives. Kelly, for you to have taken such pain and suffering and used them to fuel the positive things you do is an inspiration. If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already. -RSL I would agree! I've had a wonderful, warm welcome, and more help than I'd dreamed of. I didn't know what kind of response I might get, but everyone pitched in and provided valuable information to help with the series. Not only that, but the project also blossomed into a future website. You are more than welcome to write a guest post on the series, or provide a quote if you'd like. I can also use help with gathering up the best of the best of articles about psychics and missing people for the website. I am still strongly considering adding a forum to the site and having it moderated by the gentle persuasions of several here who have stepped forward and indicated an interest. One of my favorite quotes: "Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go.” T.S. Elliot We're stronger working together. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 410] Author : Kelly Date : 13th March 2006 09:08 PM Kelly, this man's kung fu is too strong for charlatans. If you need someone to nail a psychic to the wall, this is your guy. Someone like that Nolte character is right up his alley. In fact, when I read your blog entry about her and the claims she made (related to Nick Nolte), I immediately thought of RSL and Kaz DeMille and her similar claims. Great article, Luke! It will be very interesting if she gets wind of this and contacts me. Based upon her foul mouth in the news article, I doubt it would be pretty. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 411] Author : Azrael 5 Date : 14th March 2006 08:27 AM Here we go with another... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803388.stm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 412] Author : chillzero Date : 14th March 2006 08:46 AM Here we go with another... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803388.stm For those who don't know, this is Diane Lazarus - the "winner" of the UK program 'Britain's Psychic Challenge' mentioned before. Her website claims much success in missing persons cases. However, although it is probably pretty obvious that a person leaving a bar on New Year's Day located next to the docks is likely to have fallen into the water and perished, I find it interesting that the mother prefers to cling to the hope that her son is still alive, and she doesn't actually seem to comment either way on Diane's abilities. Diane's comments were pretty specific, so I am interested to see how this turns out. The whole thing makes me quite angry, as she was also quite graphic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 413] Author : chillzero Date : 14th March 2006 09:07 AM On further reading, Diane took the mother out on a boat, and covered the same area that the police have just spent 2 weeks diving in. Grasping. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 414] Author : chillzero Date : 14th March 2006 09:41 AM Thread Title : (sorry for blathering on, here) Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: In your report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm You state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people.". I feel this is misleading, and should require firmer journalistic handling. At the least, you should state that :"Diane Lazarus claims to have helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people." There is no documented evidence, anywhere, that any missing person case has been solved by a psychic. When a psychic claims to have helped the police, this is usually in the form of providing "information" - often unverifiable, or vague. The implication is that the BBC supports the use of psychics in locating missing people, when the focus should be on the legitimate efforts of the police. This particular family claim the police have not done enough, and I feel a report on why they feel that - what the police have contributed, and what operational restrictions the police come under - would be much more informative and constructive to others in the same unfortunate position. I wonder if you will follow this report up with information should Mr Kelly ever re-appear, with a view to verifying any information against what Diane Lazarus said - precise details only. I don't believe any information has been provided that could not have been guessed at by any reasonable person - that he fell in the water, being between a bar and the docks, on a celebratory holiday. I trust that if he turns up alive - and I sincerely hope he does - that you will revisit this report with another, giving the balancing case when the psychic was clearly wrong. People never seem to be given that kind of information - only vague anecdotes of when they were supposedly correct. I'll let you know if they respond. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 415] Author : Kelly Date : 14th March 2006 09:47 AM Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: I'll let you know if they respond. Excellent letter, C! I await their response. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 416] Author : Darat Date : 14th March 2006 09:52 AM Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: I'll let you know if they respond. I've sent one as well: In the story you state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people." Yet there is no evidence at all that I can find that Diane Lazarus has ever helped police find any missing person ever. It appears you have merely used a claim she has made without any fact checking. (As far as I am aware there is not one police force in the UK that gives credit to any "psychic" for ever finding any missing person.) Diane Lazarus may claim that she has "helped" police however since the police are obligated to look into any possible lead anyone can claim they have “helped” the police even if they have only ever spoken to a police officer during the course of an investigation! However anyone reading your article would come away with the impression that it is a fact that Diane Lazarus has indeed found missing people, surely this is very misleading in a news report? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 417] Author : Kelly Date : 14th March 2006 10:27 AM The more the merrier. Hopefully, it will force a response out of them. Thanks, Darat. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 418] Author : Azrael 5 Date : 14th March 2006 05:06 PM Well I emailed Diane Lazarus a few times to no avail.But then who expects any less? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 419] Author : Luke T. Date : 14th March 2006 06:59 PM The more the merrier. Hopefully, it will force a response out of them. Thanks, Darat. Merrier it is then. Paraphrased some of the article I wrote and tailored it to the situation. My email to them: I am commenting on your story about a psychic being used to locate a missing person that you posted on your web site here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm There are a lot of ways a news outlet can draw attention to a missing person case. For example, they can publish the missing person’s photos, give all the details of the disappearance that are known, and interview the police to see what progress has been made. Stick to the facts. With any luck, such a report might trigger a memory in the mind of a witness in the reading audience and lead to a break in the case. A responsible news organization does not throw the track off the missing person’s disappearance by tripping the light fantastic through the Twilight Zone, repeating what a bloodsucking predator of the grieving parents says occurred, which in all likelihood contradicts what events actually transpired, thereby discouraging witnesses from coming forward. Not when a tragedy of such terrible proportions is at stake. Such gross irresponsibility is beyond the pale. But that is precisely what you chose to do. You are giving this psychic predator credibility with the BBC name, and diminishing your credibility with her name. You are a part of the problem. You are greasing the skids for these creeps to help push people into deeper despair. Shame, shame, shame on you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 420] Author : Ducky Date : 14th March 2006 07:08 PM Sorry about the domain name. I got a call in a while back and was sidetracked. I will call again, and hope they let me change it. If not, I will register the second one and point them both at the website. Sorry! *mumbles something about needing a clone to help with all the bloody work... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 421] Author : Kelly Date : 14th March 2006 08:17 PM Sorry about the domain name. I got a call in a while back and was sidetracked. I will call again, and hope they let me change it. If not, I will register the second one and point them both at the website. Sorry! *mumbles something about needing a clone to help with all the bloody work... That's ok. If there is one lesson I've learned in all of this, it is patience. Good thing come to those who wait, as they say. I'm not done with my part either, so no guilt. I am entirely grateful to have all the help! Kelly :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 422] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 15th March 2006 06:41 AM .... it is probably pretty obvious that a person leaving a bar on New Year's Day located next to the docks is likely to have fallen into the water and perished ...... There was a quite similar case in the danish town Odense, where a young man went missing and was later found in the water, although the initial search failed to find him. In this case, however, the psychic that came forward didn't state the obvious, but instead claimed that the man had been abducted, and was held captive in a basement somewhere in town! This resulted in his friends starting their own search, even waking up a caretaker in the middle of the night to search a building. All this commotion scared the town, of course, but when it was all over, the psychic didn't think she had done anything wrong! :mad: It's at least a year ago I heard the story in a radio broadcast, and it was also available as a streamed broadcast. Unfortunately I can't seem to find it anymore. :( The program was about the use of psychics by the police, and whether they should put manpower into investigating psychic claims. I've contemplated writing a post about this case, so if anybody has a link to the broadcast, it'll be most appreciated. (It was from DR, most likely P1) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 423] Author : Gr8wight Date : 15th March 2006 08:59 PM Paige's Page: 30th Skeptics' Circle (http://paiges-page.net/2006_03_01_archive.html#114246735118295231) This is the Skeptics' Circle I mentioned earlier, a regular 'blog carnival' on skeptical topics. This week's host led off with Kelly's item. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 424] Author : Kelly Date : 15th March 2006 09:22 PM Paige's Page: 30th Skeptics' Circle (http://paiges-page.net/2006_03_01_archive.html#114246735118295231) This is the Skeptics' Circle I mentioned earlier, a regular 'blog carnival' on skeptical topics. This week's host led off with Kelly's item. Thank you! An another round of good exposure. I sent them an email to thank them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 425] Author : CFLarsen Date : 15th March 2006 11:55 PM KellyJ, Check your PM. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 426] Author : Kelly Date : 16th March 2006 07:25 AM Our very own chillzero is featured on the blog series today. She tells the story of how she came to rational thinking, and she also does a very good job of addressing the families of the missing in relationship to using psychics. Thank you, chillzero! Kelly http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 427] Author : Kelly Date : 16th March 2006 12:16 PM Poetic justice alert! I just received a call from the Fxxxxxxxx Scholarship folks in Washington, DC. They read yesterday's blog entry about "The Guarantee?" and they are very upset. They are not upset with me, but with Diego and what he did. At the time, University Police only gave him a slap on the hands, but the Fxxxxxx folks are ticked off and want to take it further. They said his priveliges/Visa could be revoked, depending upon what the university decides to do. I xxx'd out part of the scholarship name, since they do searches on it daily, and I don't want them poking around. I offered to delete their name from the blog, but they were ok with it staying. I think they were pretty shocked to have uncovered this. I told them frankly that I thought the U should confiscate his PC and make sure he did not attempt it again or actually scam someone. I hope they do that. I did ask them to let me know what happens. So, after all this time, perhaps justice will be served. Thanks for listening. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 428] Author : Spidey13 Date : 17th March 2006 01:47 PM Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university. :o Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 429] Author : Ryan O'Dine Date : 17th March 2006 02:06 PM Q:How many psychic detectives does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: 1000. 989 to grope around in the dark looking for the darn thing, 1 to be lead by a police officer to the bulb and watch her screw it in, and 10 to crow in the media about how they helped solve the Case of the Unscrewed-In Light Bulb. Okay, so maybe light bulb jokes aren’t the most appropriate vehicle for your series, but sometimes a single light bulb joke can do more than 20 pages of irrefutable logic. Or maybe I’m just looking for a belated excuse to say how I, like everyone else, am gladdened by your participation in this forum and by all the good work you do.;) (especially loved the Diego entry) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 430] Author : chillzero Date : 17th March 2006 03:04 PM Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: In your report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm You state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people.". .... I'll let you know if they respond. John Jackson alerted me to the fact that the wording of this article has now been altered. It now reads: "Diane Lazarus has previously been involved in attempts to find missing people. " -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 431] Author : Kelly Date : 17th March 2006 03:10 PM Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university. :o Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him. That is hilarious! I thought I cleaned that out so there was no clear reference to the actual location. The Fxxxxxx Scholarship people were able to figure it out because apparently he was the only Diego in KY with that privelege. The woman from Fxxxx promised to let me know what happens to the scumbag. The reason that I did not make it 100% clear who he is, is because of a bit of nervousness when dealing with people from foreign countries. YOu never know what is their take on respect for life. Note to self: Get more sleep. Either that, or don't post when half alseep. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 432] Author : Kelly Date : 17th March 2006 03:11 PM John Jackson alerted me to the fact that the wording of this article has now been altered. It now reads: "Diane Lazarus has previously been involved in attempts to find missing people. " Aw...backing down, I see. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 433] Author : Kelly Date : 17th March 2006 03:14 PM Okay, so maybe light bulb jokes aren’t the most appropriate vehicle for your series, but sometimes a single light bulb joke can do more than 20 pages of irrefutable logic. Or maybe I’m just looking for a belated excuse to say how I, like everyone else, am gladdened by your participation in this forum and by all the good work you do.;) (especially loved the Diego entry) HI Ryan, and thank you. I'm glad you liked the Diego entry. I never dreamed something would come of that one, and so quickly! Good joke, and so true. It may bear repeating. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 434] Author : Roadtoad Date : 17th March 2006 03:15 PM Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university. :o Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him. Something damned well ought to. Enough is enough. This creep, while on a scholarship, is trying to bilk money from innocent people who are suffering. His scholarship ought to be revoked, he ought to be sent home, and he ought to be barred from returning to this country. Bastard. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 435] Author : Kelly Date : 17th March 2006 03:29 PM Something damned well ought to. Enough is enough. This creep, while on a scholarship, is trying to bilk money from innocent people who are suffering. His scholarship ought to be revoked, he ought to be sent home, and he ought to be barred from returning to this country. Bastard. I don't know anything about the Fxxxxx Scholarship, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the money does come from taxes. He already has his PHD, the woman told me. :( RT: Why don't you just head on down there and make some carefully placed treadmarks? If you hear on the news that I was shot and killed, you'll know why. (dramatic music plays) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 436] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 17th March 2006 03:48 PM Our very own chillzero is featured on the blog series today. She tells the story of how she came to rational thinking, and she also does a very good job of addressing the families of the missing in relationship to using psychics. Thank you, chillzero! Kelly http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/ Excellent piece by chillzero. Very informative and well written. The part about how you can unconciously use cold reading was very interesting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 437] Author : Kelly Date : 17th March 2006 05:22 PM I'd love to get another one of these arranged: http://www.csicop.org/si/9511/sting.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 438] Author : John Jackson Date : 17th March 2006 05:49 PM Excellent piece by chillzero. Very informative and well written. The part about how you can unconciously use cold reading was very interesting. I'd like to second that sentiment. Chillzero's article was an enlightening piece that will serve to not only inform people who are unfortunately in this terrible situation, but also self-professed psychics who (genuinely) think that they can help in these situations and skeptics who need to understand more deeply why certain people think they can genuinely help. Congratulations chillzero for an excellent piece, and congratulations also to KellyJ for setting up such an important project. Truly inspiring work. John -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 439] Author : Mid Date : 18th March 2006 03:40 AM That is hilarious! I thought I cleaned that out so there was no clear reference to the actual location. The Fxxxxxx Scholarship people were able to figure it out because apparently he was the only Diego in KY with that privelege. The woman from Fxxxx promised to let me know what happens to the scumbag. The reason that I did not make it 100% clear who he is, is because of a bit of nervousness when dealing with people from foreign countries. YOu never know what is their take on respect for life. Note to self: Get more sleep. Either that, or don't post when half alseep. :D Hi Kelly, I haven't posted before in this thread as I didn't think I had anything to add but I just want to say I'm very impressed with everything you're doing over there. Also, I thought I'd just give you a heads up that although you've now blanked out the link and if you click on it it goes to no where if you hover over the link you can still see the universities web address, I'm not sure whether this was your intention or not but incase it wasn't I thought I'd let you know -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 440] Author : Gr8wight Date : 18th March 2006 06:47 AM Thread Title : Psychics and light bulbs Given a burned-out light bulb... Psychic: "I'm getting an impression of height, an impression of reaching up, as if to a ceiling..." Homeowner: "No, it wasn't a ceiling light." Psychic: "No, it was a table lamp. Like I said, elevated above the floor." Homeowner: "No, it wasn't a table lamp." Psychic: "As I said, it was near a table...one of those free standing floor lamps..." Homeowner: "No, it came from the light outside my front door." Psychic: "Exactly as I said; it was above your head." The next day the psychic's website is updated to include the claim: Assisted homeowner in emergency bulb replacement. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 441] Author : Kelly Date : 18th March 2006 08:14 AM Hi Kelly, I haven't posted before in this thread as I didn't think I had anything to add but I just want to say I'm very impressed with everything you're doing over there. Also, I thought I'd just give you a heads up that although you've now blanked out the link and if you click on it it goes to no where if you hover over the link you can still see the universities web address, I'm not sure whether this was your intention or not but incase it wasn't I thought I'd let you know Hi Mid...cute monkey by the way. Thanks for letting me know about that. It was not intentional. I find it strange that it would still show the website with a mouseover...oh well. I removed it completely. Thank you also for your kind words. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 442] Author : Kelly Date : 18th March 2006 08:26 AM The next day the psychic's website is updated to include the claim: Assisted homeowner in emergency bulb replacement. Funny, but true. Perhaps using humor like this might reach someone out there. I can only try. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 443] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 18th March 2006 08:24 PM That is hilarious! I thought I cleaned that out so there was no clear reference to the actual location. The Fxxxxxx Scholarship people were able to figure it out because apparently he was the only Diego in KY with that privelege. The woman from Fxxxx promised to let me know what happens to the scumbag... Hi. I'm obviously going to have to do a lot of research to find out what's going on. However, I might generally point out that doing product recall usually builds brand confidence. It would be good for these Fxxxxxxxx people if they took swift and immediate action (as they seem to be doing) and you credit them for it on your blog, and if they don't know this you might point it out to them. Could I say again, keep me posted for any new links for the SkepticWiki article. I recall that KellyJ liked the "Crime Professionals Against Fraud" website more than my SkepticWiki article. In a way, KJ, you're right: first hand testimony is best. That's why I went wild over that article and put it first in the links for Psychic Detectives. But in another way you're wrong --- because the SkepticWiki article linked to that article, just as it links to your blog and the Klaas foundation. And will link to psychicpredators.com. Do keep me up to date. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 444] Author : Kelly Date : 18th March 2006 09:02 PM Hi. I'm obviously going to have to do a lot of research to find out what's going on. However, I might generally point out that doing product recall usually builds brand confidence. It would be good for these Fxxxxxxxx people if they took swift and immediate action (as they seem to be doing) and you credit them for it on your blog, and if they don't know this you might point it out to them. Could I say again, keep me posted for any new links for the SkepticWiki article. I recall that KellyJ liked the "Crime Professionals Against Fraud" website more than my SkepticWiki article. In a way, KJ, you're right: first hand testimony is best. That's why I went wild over that article and put it first in the links for Psychic Detectives. But in another way you're wrong --- because the SkepticWiki article linked to that article, just as it links to your blog and the Klaas foundation. And will link to psychicpredators.com. Do keep me up to date. Thanks. What are you going to have to do alot of research on, specifically? Do you mean our pal, Diego? I am quite sure I saved the F woman's vm msg to me. Once I return from my next trip, if I have not heard from her, I will call her for an update. She did say that she has my email, etc. (Obviously, they checked me out, too.) Now that I again look at the SkepticWiki page, it is an excellent one stop "shopping" for this specific issue. I bookmarked it and will utilize it in upcoming blog entries if that's ok with you. Thanks for the reminder on KlassKids. I'm going to email Marc directly about his blog submission and see if he's going to be able to do it. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 445] Author : Kelly Date : 20th March 2006 06:34 PM For those who like to email reporters who promote psychics, here's an article I ran across: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA031906.01B.psychic_search.2fca8eb.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 446] Author : Roadtoad Date : 20th March 2006 06:39 PM Crap. If only these people would quit wasting the time of the police and themselves. I realize the police feel an "obligation," but if it were me, I'd insist the psychics be kept OUT of any investigation. Let THEM spend their time and money chasing the false leads. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 447] Author : Gr8wight Date : 20th March 2006 09:42 PM Actually, that article does seem pretty balanced. It reports that there has been activity based on the psychic's involvement, but it also quotes the police representative as being a skeptic, and saying that psychics' claims do not pan out any more often than chance would have one expect, but that the police are reluctant to pass on any tips. Perhaps any e-mails we send should simply excourage the reporter to follow the story and write a follow up article pointing out that the psychic's suggestions were worthless. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 448] Author : Jon. Date : 20th March 2006 10:46 PM From the story: By her side was Luis Lopez, 22, Fuentes' nephew and godson. "It doesn't matter how ridiculous it sounds," Lopez said. "A clue's a clue." In an investigation that so far has led nowhere, Engleman's clues — and perhaps her savvy computer skills — have at the very least staved off despair in some of Fuentes' loved ones. "It's a complete mystery, but we haven't given up hope yet," said Arthur Gomez, 45, Fuentes' brother. He said his little sister's disappearance has made him a believer. This is the true sadness in this story. The "clues" provided by the psychic have led exactly nowhere, but this poor family member, desperate for something, anything, that might lead to the return of his sister, clutches at the straw offered by the psychic, to the point where he will "believe", because he needs to. It makes me very, very sad. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 449] Author : Kelly Date : 21st March 2006 12:33 AM I was pleased to see the story did at least present a voice of reason, however, when it ends with the family member expressing belief, which is indeed sad, that almost trumps the skeptic aspect of things. I do agree with Gr8wight that it would be more prudent to encourage the reporter to follow up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 450] Author : chillzero Date : 21st March 2006 08:59 AM Well, I have sent out some queries about police using psychics, and will let you know any responses I get. I was chatting with my other half last night, and a point came up that I don't think I have put across here yet. I used to believe I 'knew' things. I had ideas about where to find missing people, or about murder cases. My partner at the time felt I should contact the families to let them know what I 'knew'. I refused, because I wanted to keep a diary of what I thought the outcome would be, and match it against the actual outcomes (should I ever be able to find out), and convince myself of a 100% hitrate before I would ever risk giving a family the wrong information. No matter how convinced I was of my ability, I knew - and interestingly most psychics will easily admit - that the ability is one that comes and goes according to whatever factors (health, stress, moral dilemma, hostile environment.....) are prevalent. Why then would anyone insist in bringing this information to a family until the ability is always there 24/7 and unerring in every detail? I don't understand it. The most I think I could have done, had my partner pressed me more, was give my 'information' to the relevant police force, and let them weigh it up as to relevance and worthiness for attention. I would never impose on a family in such a situation. The place they find themselves is so distressing and so personal that I believe they should be supported, and respected. Never imposed upon. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 451] Author : Kelly Date : 21st March 2006 12:00 PM Thanks for continuing with the research, C. Perhaps I should edit your posted story and add that you were encouraged to "help" families of the missing. I'm so glad your ethics prevented you from taking that step. Like you, I would agree for psyhics to let police discern who is a crackpot and who is not. Thank you for your honesty. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 452] Author : The_Fire Date : 21st March 2006 12:29 PM Well, I have sent out some queries about police using psychics, and will let you know any responses I get. Speaking off...I just had an idea: With the amount of nationalities we have here on the board, it would be possible to contact police forces in a lot of countries and get their statistics as well. That would make a broadside against the claims of not only american psychics but also those from other countries. I have personally come up against an australian whom more or less refused to acknowledge that australia have the same problems with these frauds as the US..... edit: spelling mishap. and another one.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 453] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd March 2006 01:26 AM Luke T.'s story is now posted on the blog: http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/32306-pmp-but-news-said-psychics-are.html Thank you, Luke! Excellent work. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 454] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd March 2006 08:23 AM Luke T.'s story is now posted on the blog: http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/32306-pmp-but-news-said-psychics-are.html Thank you, Luke! Excellent work. My pleasure. I have sent a link to the article to the news department of the Fox affilliate mentioned in the article. I hope it is a wake-up call for them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 455] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 23rd March 2006 10:57 AM What are you going to have to do alot of research on, specifically? Do you mean our pal, Diego? I am quite sure I saved the F woman's vm msg to me. Well there you go again ... "the F woman" ... "our pal Diego" ... any minute know someone with a heavy Russian accent is going to sidle up to me and whisper "the grey owl flies at midnight ... the badger wants his cheese". Now that I again look at the SkepticWiki page, it is an excellent one stop "shopping" for this specific issue. Cool ... that's just what dr kitten said the SW should be when it was started ... "a one-stop shop for all your skeptical needs." I bookmarked it and will utilize it in upcoming blog entries if that's ok with you. Well of course ... it's what the SWiki's there for. I've linked Luke's article --- twice, actually, 'cos it's the only skeptical take on Nancy Myer that I've been able to find. The bit about the car is excellent --- it shows that she's a Hot Reading fraud. --------- About policemen --- we used to have a couple on these forums ... Stumpy and Hannibal ... back during Lucianarchy's reign of terror. They no longer actively post, but perhaps a PM would get them involved --- it's worth a shot. I'd do it myself, except that they wouldn't remember me, but someone such as Luke T or CFLarsen might give it a shot. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 456] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd March 2006 11:35 AM I've linked Luke's article --- twice, actually, 'cos it's the only skeptical take on Nancy Myer that I've been able to find. The bit about the car is excellent --- it shows that she's a Hot Reading fraud. Yay! About policemen --- we used to have a couple on these forums ... Stumpy and Hannibal ... back during Lucianarchy's reign of terror. They no longer actively post, but perhaps a PM would get them involved --- it's worth a shot. I'd do it myself, except that they wouldn't remember me, but someone such as Luke T or CFLarsen might give it a shot. We still have Andalyn. He's a policeman as well, and has been a member of this forum for years, and is still active here. I've PM'd him to ask him join us in this topic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 457] Author : Luke T. Date : 23rd March 2006 12:46 PM Wow. I just read The Business of Preying (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/31706-pmp-business-of-preying.html), and my temper is flaring. One really great part: On one occasion a psychic contacted Paula, Billy’s sister, and said “For $225.00, I will find your brother." Paula's answer was very commendable; she replied" there is a $15,000 reward out for the return or recovery of my brother, find him and the money is yours." Her reply was "I don't do business like that." This is really, really great stuff. Every journalism student in the world should be required to read it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 458] Author : elaine Date : 23rd March 2006 01:06 PM Wow. I just read The Business of Preying (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/31706-pmp-business-of-preying.html), and my temper is flaring. One really great part: This is really, really great stuff. Every journalism student in the world should be required to read it. My temper will start flaring, after I stop crying for the family. Like they aren't going through enough. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 459] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 23rd March 2006 02:05 PM We still have Andalyn. He's a policeman as well, and has been a member of this forum for years, and is still active here. I've PM'd him to ask him join us in this topic. Looking at the posting histories of Stumpy and Hannibal, it seems like Hannibal lost the desire to post, or possibly the will to live, as a result of Lucianarchy's repulsive behavior --- and hasn't been seen since Feb '04. Stumpy, OTOH, only ever posted every few months anyway --- last seen last September. He may well be contactable. It's worth a go. I'll PM them --- it's not as though I'm asking them a personal favor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 460] Author : Katachresis Date : 23rd March 2006 03:28 PM I am toying with the idea of contacting one of my cousins. He has been a detective in a suburban city for over 25 years. I fear broaching the subject with him. The next time we are together, I will feel him out, get some general impressions. I doubt I could ask him for contributions here, but at least get an idea about what he thinks about the subject. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 461] Author : Kelly Date : 23rd March 2006 08:10 PM Hello all, I did ask Janice Smolinski if she would name any of the psychics, but apparently she did not feel comfortable doing so. I will be meeting her this weekend in NC, and I plan on asking her about this. Wouldn't it be lovely to stop that wretched person in her tracks? That would be a good idea to bring in some policemen who have experience in this area. I would love to hear their take on it. For those who do not know, I will be away starting tomorrow morning through Monday. I'll be in Wilmington, NC, for the 2nd annual Cue Center conference, which is a gathering of organizations, such as ours, and family members of missing persons. I'll be speaking on Saturday night at the National Candlelight Vigil, held in downtown Wilmington, near the Cape Fear River. I'm not sure how much internet time I will have while there, so I will be scarse around these parts. If any psychics come looking for me, tell them they have the wrong number for me, but that we have their number. ;) Thanks, everyone, for everything. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 462] Author : Luke T. Date : 24th March 2006 04:16 PM After Kelly placed my article about Nancy Myer and KPTV on her site, I emailed KPTV to let them know about it. I just got an email from the reporter who did the story: Thank you for the link. Very interesting article. We appreciate your feedback. Take care and hope to hear from you again. And that is it. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 463] Author : elaine Date : 26th March 2006 01:12 PM Thread Title : Your opinions please Kelly, Last week, the Denver Post had this article regarding a medium that moved to the area. A very one-sided and pro psychic article. http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_3602480 I would like to add to what this letter writer wrote in today's (March 26th)paper, using Kelly as a for instance. http://www.denverpost.com/letters First of all, is this okay with you? And secondly, assuming it is, any input from the forum would be greatly appreciated. I don't write as clearly and precisely as I'd like. Here is a rough draft I read with interest, the March 19th article 'Spiritual Medium At Large' . And like Mr. Barnhart, am very disappointed in the lack of balance and skepticism in the article. The letter writer is correct in his comments regarding cold reading. In the spirit of good reporting, I would like to suggest to the editors a follow-up article, discussing cold reading techniques and perhaps interviewing someone like Kelly Jolkowski of http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com, regarding her experiences with well-intentioned mediums. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 464] Author : dubious Date : 26th March 2006 07:29 PM Kelly,you have my deepest sympathy and utmost admiration for your courage. Definition of the 'supernatural. "the most extraordinary claims made by the ordinary of people. Do not relant to the onslaught of delusional believers you will confront. Your cause is a noble one. Kindest regards. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 465] Author : elaine Date : 27th March 2006 06:55 AM Thread Title : Sent it off Thank you, Kelly, for the ok to use your name and website in my letter to the Denver Post editor. I made a couple of small changes. We'll see if they print it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 466] Author : Kelly Date : 28th March 2006 07:31 PM Hi all, I'm back from my trip, but it looks like it's going to take me several days to catch up on things. I still wanted to pop in and express my thanks. That's too bad that you only received a form response, Luke T, but it's always possible that your article did have an impact, one that this author is not revealing. Thanks, Elaine, for writing to the Denver Post. Working together, we can make a difference for someone. At the conference, the blog series was a topic of several conversations. One man said that someone came to him about psychics, and he pointed them to the series. That person came back to him, apologized, indicating she had no idea, but that now she knows better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 467] Author : ysabella Date : 28th March 2006 09:06 PM At the conference, the blog series was a topic of several conversations. One man said that someone came to him about psychics, and he pointed them to the series. That person came back to him, apologized, indicating she had no idea, but that now she knows better. Hooray! Result!! :bananapartyhat: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 468] Author : elaine Date : 29th March 2006 07:18 AM sorry double post -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 469] Author : elaine Date : 29th March 2006 07:18 AM Hi all, I'm back from my trip, but it looks like it's going to take me several days to catch up on things. I still wanted to pop in and express my thanks. That's too bad that you only received a form response, Luke T, but it's always possible that your article did have an impact, one that this author is not revealing. Thanks, Elaine, for writing to the Denver Post. Working together, we can make a difference for someone. At the conference, the blog series was a topic of several conversations. One man said that someone came to him about psychics, and he pointed them to the series. That person came back to him, apologized, indicating she had no idea, but that now she knows better. Very cool, about the blog experience at the conference. Regarding the letter to the Post, I wish I had read the article when it came out last week. Sending a response earlier would have helped, I'm sure. Another forum user pm'd me the reporter's email address. I'm sending her a version of the letter. If anything comes of it, I'll let everyone know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 470] Author : prewitt81 Date : 29th March 2006 06:56 PM I just received a letter from "psychic" Skye Alexander http://www.skyealexander.com/ in which she claims that she "help[s] police across the United States solve homicides, missing person, and suicide cases." My gut reaction is to send her an email pointing her to the soon-to-be psychicpredators.com, but I'm guessing that she'll just delete it and send my address to spam harvesters. Any ideas on how to proceed? Once the website is up, I won't have a problem contacting her if we have official email addresses. Honestly, I delete a lot of spam anyways, and might just fire one off to her while I'm still hot about it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 471] Author : Ducky Date : 29th March 2006 06:58 PM I just received a letter from "psychic" Skye Alexander http://www.skyealexander.com/ in which she claims that she "help[s] police across the United States solve homicides, missing person, and suicide cases." My gut reaction is to send her an email pointing her to the soon-to-be psychicpredators.com, but I'm guessing that she'll just delete it and send my address to spam harvesters. Any ideas on how to proceed? Once the website is up, I won't have a problem contacting her if we have official email addresses. Honestly, I delete a lot of spam anyways, and might just fire one off to her while I'm still hot about it. Ask Skye what exactly needs to be solved about a suicide? It's one of the few death investigations in which the victim and the perpetrator are readily apparent. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 472] Author : prewitt81 Date : 29th March 2006 07:19 PM Ask Skye what exactly needs to be solved about a suicide? It's one of the few death investigations in which the victim and the perpetrator are readily apparent. I would guess, there, that she probably engages in the normal scumbaggery and gives false reasons for the suicide, and assurances that the "departed soul" is in a better place. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 473] Author : Ducky Date : 29th March 2006 07:21 PM I would guess, there, that she probably engages in the normal scumbaggery and gives false reasons for the suicide, and assurances that the "departed soul" is in a better place. Which is a despicable tactic, and had anyone purportedly done that to me or my family after my father's suicide, I would have kicked them right in the genitals. I say we get this one. Email her back and ask for a specific cop to reference in each case seh has worked on so that you can "verify her credentials before making any decisions on soliciting her services." See if she even returns one cop's name. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 474] Author : prewitt81 Date : 29th March 2006 07:31 PM Which is a despicable tactic, and had anyone purportedly done that to me or my family after my father's suicide, I would have kicked them right in the genitals. I say we get this one. Email her back and ask for a specific cop to reference in each case seh has worked on so that you can "verify her credentials before making any decisions on soliciting her services." See if she even returns one cop's name. I'm on it. I'll start a new thread with any replies I receive. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 475] Author : Kelly Date : 29th March 2006 08:36 PM HI Prewitt...good to see you again. Besides the usual comments, I can honestly say that this woman, Syke, has the spookiest eyes. Thanks for the prompt attention to this matter. She's pretty vague about her "accomplishments", but that's not a surprise. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 476] Author : Gr8wight Date : 29th March 2006 08:58 PM Which is a despicable tactic, and had anyone purportedly done that to me or my family after my father's suicide, I would have kicked them right in the genitals. I say we get this one. Email her back and ask for a specific cop to reference in each case seh has worked on so that you can "verify her credentials before making any decisions on soliciting her services." See if she even returns one cop's name. About a year ago I sent emails to several psychics whose websites claimed they had participated with police. I asked them to provide details of exactly which police forces they had been involved with. Only one of them deigned to reply to me, and his response was twofold: 1) He named a general geographic area is which he had allegedly worked, but did not name a specific law enforcement agency. 2) He told me that most police forces will deny having worked with psychics when asked, even if they had done so. Pretty much the response I expected. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 477] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 29th March 2006 09:45 PM I just received a letter from "psychic" Skye Alexander http://www.skyealexander.com/ in which she claims that she "help[s] police across the United States solve homicides, missing person, and suicide cases." Just out of curiosity: Why did you receive such a letter? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 478] Author : prewitt81 Date : 29th March 2006 10:38 PM Just out of curiosity: Why did you receive such a letter? It was a mass-mailing, apparently. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 479] Author : Kelly Date : 29th March 2006 10:42 PM The epitome of junk mail. Hello Gr8wight -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 480] Author : CFLarsen Date : 29th March 2006 10:57 PM About a year ago I sent emails to several psychics whose websites claimed they had participated with police. I asked them to provide details of exactly which police forces they had been involved with. Only one of them deigned to reply to me, and his response was twofold: 1) He named a general geographic area is which he had allegedly worked, but did not name a specific law enforcement agency. 2) He told me that most police forces will deny having worked with psychics when asked, even if they had done so. Pretty much the response I expected. Still got the names of those psychics? Keep documentation. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 481] Author : rjh01 Date : 30th March 2006 01:17 AM If you are worried that someone may send you spam after you send them e-mails, create a new e-mail account and use that. There are several organisations that will create e-mail accounts for you. If you then receive spam you can abandon it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 482] Author : Kelly Date : 30th March 2006 01:31 AM Let the Sylvia Browne stories begin. I can sleep at night. I don't know how she can. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 483] Author : Ducky Date : 30th March 2006 01:38 AM Let the Sylvia Browne stories begin. I can sleep at night. I don't know how she can. It's 2:40 in the morning. If you can sleep, then do so!!! As for Sylvia, I hear she eats babies. Raw. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 484] Author : Gr8wight Date : 30th March 2006 06:20 AM Still got the names of those psychics? Keep documentation. Unfortunately, that information is securely stored on the defective hard drive of my previous computer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 485] Author : prewitt81 Date : 30th March 2006 06:56 AM If you are worried that someone may send you spam after you send them e-mails, create a new e-mail account and use that. There are several organisations that will create e-mail accounts for you. If you then receive spam you can abandon it. Yeah, I ended up going with an anonymous email address. We'll see how it goes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 486] Author : CFLarsen Date : 30th March 2006 07:18 AM Unfortunately, that information is securely stored on the defective hard drive of my previous computer. Tsk, tsk... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 487] Author : Luke T. Date : 30th March 2006 08:37 AM Thought you all might be interested in hearing what happened to a co-worker's niece a couple weeks ago. We were just talking about myspace.com and what an evil little web site it is on SkepticalCommunity and it prompted me to tell the story. I've been thinking about posting it here ever since it happened, but just never got around to it. Anyway. Here's pretty much what I posted on SC: A niece of a co-worker was recently (couple weeks ago) nearly kidnapped by a guy she met on myspace. It was only through quick action on my coworker's part that she was rescued at the last possible moment. Typical clueless problem child teenager. This guy tells her he's the member of a grunge band and a recruiter for Hollywood movies. Promises her he can get her into a movie in California and she will make $600,000. She was disowned by her parents and living in an apartment with a 34 year old woman. Fortunately, this woman was on her game and started checking a lot of this guy's claims on the internet and showed the kid he was lying. One particular claim was about being a member of a band, which he named. He said they were a California band, and the roommate found it was a real band, only out of Pennsylvania. Other stuff like that wasn't adding up. But the kid didn't want to hear it. So she tells the guy to come to her town and she will meet him and leave town with him. She quits her grocery store job and tells her roommate she is leaving. The guy arrives by bus. Yeah. Big picture Hollywood man comes in on a bus. He then tells her he lost his driver's license and money and she has to pay for their hotel room. Yeah. Big picture Hollywood man has no money or identification proving he is who he says he is. So she wants to stay in town until she can pick up her last grocery store paycheck before they run off to California together. And this is what probably saved her life, because while this was going on, the now ex-roommate has alerted the family, who seem apathetic after all the crap they have had to put up with from her, except for her uncle, my co-worker. Somewhere along the line, the roommate had challenged this creep on the phone. And during the conversation, he said, "Why aren't you dead?" This was enough for my co-worker to go to the police, and for the police to go after him for threatening bodily harm when he came to town. Her uncle (my co-worker) was able to track her location because his niece had told the grocery store where she would be. So the cop goes with my coworker to the hotel and they knock on the door. At first the policeman says nothing as the uncle talks to his niece through the door. But they won't open it. So uncle asks the cop, "Can't you do something?" So the policeman says, "This is the police!", and the big picture Hollywood recruiter grunge band member bolts from the room and jumps out the back window, much to the shock and amazement of the idiot kid. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 488] Author : Luke T. Date : 30th March 2006 08:40 AM Unfortunately, the bad guy got away and the only person who has seen his face is the niece. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 489] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 30th March 2006 09:17 AM Let the Sylvia Browne stories begin. I can sleep at night. I don't know how she can.Cold readers don't necessarily know that they're doing it. I've only seen two kinds of ex-psychics. One sort says "Yes, I was Hot Reading, I'm a fraud." The other sort says "I was Cold Reading, and I had no idea." One of the latter category is our very own poster Nex. But I've never seen anyone say "I was cold reading and I knew it." Now I think about it, the reason for this is obvious --- a deliberate fraud wouldn't confine himself / herself to cold reading --- they'd always do it hot if they could. If cold readers can fool an audience, and they can, then they can fool themselves. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 490] Author : Hagrok Date : 30th March 2006 09:25 AM Unfortunately, the bad guy got away and the only person who has seen his face is the niece. Bet his fingerprints are in a database somewhere... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 491] Author : Luke T. Date : 30th March 2006 11:17 AM Bet his fingerprints are in a database somewhere... That's what I was thinking. I said as much to my co-worker, but I can't recall what his reply was. I don't know if they lifted fingerprints or not. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 492] Author : Luke T. Date : 30th March 2006 11:19 AM But I've never seen anyone say "I was cold reading and I knew it." Now I think about it, the reason for this is obvious --- a deliberate fraud wouldn't confine himself / herself to cold reading --- they'd always do it hot if they could. The Psychic Mafia (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573921610/102-9590912-6387318?v=glance&n=283155) bears this out. A good read on the tricks the author and his cohorts pulled as deliberately fraudulent psychics to make their readings as hot as possible. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 493] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 30th March 2006 12:03 PM Cold readers don't necessarily know that they're doing it. ........ But I've never seen anyone say "I was cold reading and I knew it." Now I think about it, the reason for this is obvious --- a deliberate fraud wouldn't confine himself / herself to cold reading --- they'd always do it hot if they could. Does Sylvia Brown and others of her class not use cold reading? Are they not frauds? The impression I get from stage performers claiming to talk to the dead, is that they are very well aware what they are doing, and they talk to people all the time without prior knowledge. If they used hot reading they would do much better than they do. :rolleyes: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 494] Author : Luke T. Date : 30th March 2006 12:06 PM Does Sylvia Brown and others of her class not use cold reading? Are they not frauds? The impression I get from stage performers claiming to talk to the dead, is that they are very well aware what they are doing, and they talk to people all the time without prior knowledge. If they used hot reading they would do much better than they do. :rolleyes: All we see are her live appearances. Spontaneous readings on people she couldn't know anything about. We do not see her private readings with regular clients or with clients who have to give their full name and credit card number. Read "The Psychic Mafia" to get an idea. Psychics keep records on their clients and trade that information with each other. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 495] Author : Kelly Date : 31st March 2006 09:55 AM Thank you, Luke, for presenting the story about the near disaster with the misled teenager. This happens more often than we realize. If you are a parent of a teen, or even a pre-teen, know what they are doing, especially on the internet. Just 2 nights ago, I had a phone interview with the mom of a missing teen from NV. She was lured away in a similar fashion. NOw she's living the life of a prostitute and is a meth user. She's only 15. Cops don't care because they say she's a "runaway". Apparently, the laws in NV are so lax that no one can effectively react to this. They even had the man in question in their hands for drug possesion, but said they couldn't charge him in relation to the girl. Of course, he did not appear at his trial. It's a system gone mad. Don't think it can't happen to you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 496] Author : alfaniner Date : 31st March 2006 11:12 AM [QUOTE=Mr. Stick;1539132]Does Sylvia Brown and others of her class not use cold reading? Are they not frauds? ...[QUOTE] I think the key word was "ex-psychics". The current frauds know full well what they are doing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 497] Author : Kelly Date : 31st March 2006 05:29 PM I would like your opinions, please. Would having a post on humor in my series on psychics detract from its professionalism? In this post, I would briefly discuss the need for humor in dealing with the issue, and then include some psychic jokes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 498] Author : rjh01 Date : 31st March 2006 05:44 PM Humour in the right hands can be a powerful weapon. How about this one I just invented. 'I would like to report my son is missing.' 'Hey are you not that famous psychics who finds missing people?' 'Yes. Glad you recognise me.' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 499] Author : Kelly Date : 31st March 2006 05:57 PM Thank you for the comment and the joke. If I decide to do this, I'll start a psychic joke thread on the Humor forum rather than have them posted here. The humor forum is an appropriate place for them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 500] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 31st March 2006 07:52 PM I would like your opinions, please. Would having a post on humor in my series on psychics detract from its professionalism? In this post, I would briefly discuss the need for humor in dealing with the issue, and then include some psychic jokes. It's hard to do. I make fun of everything I can, but psychics in themselves aren't funny. Their particular arguments are often funny, but the thing itself is just disgusting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 501] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 31st March 2006 08:14 PM Does Sylvia Brown and others of her class not use cold reading? Are they not frauds? The impression I get from stage performers claiming to talk to the dead, is that they are very well aware what they are doing, and they talk to people all the time without prior knowledge. If they used hot reading they would do much better than they do. :rolleyes: Well, I think you just made my point. If she was a fraud, then she would hot-read, and do much better than she does. In fact, she's rubbish, she flails around wildly, and her audience believes in her. And so does she. I'm sure the fatuous preening self-deluding stupid bitch sleeps very well. I suffer from insomnia. What of it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 502] Author : Kelly Date : 31st March 2006 11:08 PM It's hard to do. I make fun of everything I can, but psychics in themselves aren't funny. Their particular arguments are often funny, but the thing itself is just disgusting. THis is why I am torn about it. rjh's joke was not bad, but yet it stung just the same. I do firmly believe in the importance of having a sense of humor in trying times. I'm also insomniac, so my comment about her sleeping at night was more of a jab at her apparent lack of a conscience than her sleeping habits. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 503] Author : Kelly Date : 31st March 2006 11:54 PM The San Antonio police ask for psychic's help according to this article: http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=17173D1D-A3B6-437B-94C6-DB1D9A9CA35F -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 504] Author : prewitt81 Date : 1st April 2006 12:04 AM UTSA police followed every lead in their search for Fuentes. Chief Hernandez says they got help from the San Antonio Police Department and even psychics to try to track her down. The way I read that, it seems like the psychics offered help. Very vague wording there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 505] Author : Kelly Date : 2nd April 2006 09:37 AM The way I read that, it seems like the psychics offered help. Very vague wording there. Yes, it was vague, but there was no real purpose in even mentioning it since obviously this is not what solved the case. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 506] Author : prewitt81 Date : 2nd April 2006 01:26 PM Agreed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 507] Author : Zoinked168 Date : 2nd April 2006 02:41 PM Thread Title : Kelly Why couldn't I find the delete button sooner than elaine's lighting quick reflexes. I ment to post it as a private message... Just dig myself a hole now... Although I wanted the post below to be private, I still believe it to be true. So if im banned from this forum because of it, then frankly I'm not bothered. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 508] Author : elaine Date : 2nd April 2006 02:44 PM I am deeply sorry to hear about your son's disappearance. I know you don't want to hear some claimed psychic tell you a bunch pie in the sky for money. I don't have to have any special ability's to sense your frustration and hurt over Jason. I have some experience in locating objects and "scanning" peoples health. I myself was curious about the whereabouts of your son. I know my findings could be either devastating or bring some hope to you and your family. This is such a delicate matter which I'm not totally comfortable with. I so deeply regret to say that I found no trace of Jason's energy on earth. I have checked and re-checked hoping that I could be wrong. You could clarify this for yourself and you do not need any special abilities. But you do need a clear mind with is no easy feat. But if you can, relax and feel your own heartbeat and then picture Jason and what his heart would be doing. Then change your thoughts to your other son's heartbeat and try to see a difference. It takes time but the answer lies within you. I am so sorry to give this news to a mother, but I feel that your mind will never rest until you find the truth. Please accept my humblest apologies and I can only hope you don't think me as a fruit. If you do, then I accept that and I understand why and I wish you well in your search. Deepest Regards Zoe Unbelievable -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 509] Author : Roadtoad Date : 2nd April 2006 03:04 PM I'll give zoinked credit: 1.) No money was requested. 2.) The answer given was honestly offered. 3.) It was a hard one to offer any parent. I'm hoping Zoinked is wrong. No, I don't want to see this person banned, but maybe, over time, they might realize just what is truly going on in their heart and mind. An "A" for compassion. Everything else... That's not up to me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 510] Author : Kelly Date : 2nd April 2006 03:07 PM Zoe, You will not be banned for claiming "psychic" abilities. What I fail to understand though is why you ignore my request to not come to me with your claims. Assuming you came here through the blog series, (surely you have seen it and read the disclaimer at the bottom of each post, OR you have read enough of this thread to have made this clear.) you know that I do not entertain anything psychics have to say as truth regarding my son. You sound like a kind, yet misguided person. I don't wish to be unkind to you, but your notion of being able to know whether or not Jason's heart is beating is pure nonsense. (sensing his "energy" as you phrased it) Every single psychic who has ever approached me tells me he is dead, so you are no different. If you have specific details about his death and disappearance, as with any of the others who now come to me, I encourage you to call our police detectives and share this with with them. I let them decide if there is anything of value to follow up. I guarantee you that they will listen to you, so please don't use that as an excuse not to call them. Here's the number: 402-444-5647 Why don't you create your own thread to discuss your psychic abilities? If you have confidence in it, you should have no objection to doing that. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 511] Author : Zoinked168 Date : 2nd April 2006 03:44 PM Firstly, thank-you for not immediately discrediting my honest thoughts. I understand that you require details and hard evidence, even in my shoes I want to see the the real facts for my allegation even though the subject nature is painfully sensitive. I do not sell myself short in offering services to the public and I am afraid that even if I could prove some abilities, it would be too costly for myself or you Kelly as I would physically have to travel to your location, and it would be a lengthy investigation which I cannot afford to pursue at the moment as I am studying. At no point did I say I possess psychic abilities, This term is coined too loosely for start and what I do know is that I deal with the manipulation of quantimbioelectromagnetic energy. The discussion of ESP has only recently been brought to light and what I know and practice, I fail to see an exact resemblance to what is known yet to the masses. So although this probably appears to be a "cop-out" in my resistance to help at this point of time, I do intend to prove my capabilities in other areas than missing people. This is me sticking my neck out into the world where I have grown tired of skeptics in the past and given up explaining and even demonstrating to. I have nothing to prove but to myself. I hope people will understand that one day. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 512] Author : Zoinked168 Date : 2nd April 2006 03:53 PM Further more, I would like to add that I totally support the notion of exposing frauds in the ESP department. They are a disgrace to themselves and the people they effect. So I really don't mind if you try to pick holes through my words because I know I speak the truth and frauds just make my life harder and frustrate me. This is something that fascinates my own mind and I am curious to know and see real results which no one has been proved as yet. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 513] Author : delphi_ote Date : 2nd April 2006 04:20 PM Further more, I would like to add that I totally support the notion of exposing frauds in the ESP department. They are a disgrace to themselves and the people they effect. So I really don't mind if you try to pick holes through my words because I know I speak the truth and frauds just make my life harder and frustrate me. This is something that fascinates my own mind and I am curious to know and see real results which no one has been proved as yet. So why not win a Million Dollars (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html)? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 514] Author : Kelly Date : 2nd April 2006 04:32 PM Zoe, You claim paranormal abilities. To be able to know if a person is alive or dead in the manner you suggest is not a normal ability. Pardon me for the psychic label. I have a few questions for you: Are you saying that you are not going to discuss this ability on your own thread? Are you saying that you know nothing more than that Jason is not alive, and that you would not know more than that without coming here? Do you have any intention of notifying the police, assuming you have details? If you do not have any more answers and are not willing to discuss your claimed abilities, I do not see much purpose in your having contacted me. In a nutshell, you said: "Sorry, lady, but your kid is dead." What value does that hold for me? What value does it hold for any of the members here or the purpose of the thread/forum? Thank you. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 515] Author : Zoinked168 Date : 2nd April 2006 04:37 PM delphi_ote...I have looked into applying already. But this is not about the money. This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?! Besides, this is not a win lose scenario or anything to do with numeric lottery odds. My intention is be in James Randi's labs making history in regards to ESP. I do have a life too and I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 516] Author : ysabella Date : 2nd April 2006 04:43 PM You should read the Challenge guidelines. There is no "lab." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 517] Author : Zoinked168 Date : 2nd April 2006 04:56 PM Zoe, You claim paranormal abilities. To be able to know if a person is alive or dead in the manner you suggest is not a normal ability. Pardon me for the psychic label. I have a few questions for you: Are you saying that you are not going to discuss this ability on your own thread? Are you saying that you know nothing more than that Jason is not alive, and that you would not know more than that without coming here? Do you have any intention of notifying the police, assuming you have details? If you do not have any more answers and are not willing to discuss your claimed abilities, I do not see much purpose in your having contacted me. In a nutshell, you said: "Sorry, lady, but your kid is dead." What value does that hold for me? What value does it hold for any of the members here or the purpose of the thread/forum? Thank you. Kelly Kelly, Before I can answer your valid questions, I have one for you. What is a "normal ability"? The whole concept behind ESP is that everyone could potentially tap into this unused resource in our brain. This is why I suggest you try it yourself. I have briefly talked about locating people with my past mentor sometime ago now. I have some rough idea where to start but even with a natural ability, it is useless without a good technique. Everything connected to humans has evolved and improved over time, even thinking and logic for example. It would require a lot of my time to develop this independently. This is one skill out of dozens of known phenomena, and there are still limitless of unknown ones too yet to be developed. If you have looked into energy practices such as Qi-Gong you will notice that the technique has practically not evolved at all since it was established and there is only "one way of doing it", this I believe to be false not to question and improve upon something which dates back thousands of years. I really hope you can see my view-point on this and see if it makes a little sense. I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart. Until then, take it as you will. I force feed no one. I only ask for everyone and anyone who takes an interest in ESP to experiment for themselves before they apply straight-up knock'em down approach. Perhaps I am naive in my belief's, but regardless I see the practicalities and possible usages for the world we live in today. I'm off to bed now. I hope that this has partly answered your questions. I will elaborate and answer any more questions you may have when I am able too :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 518] Author : delphi_ote Date : 2nd April 2006 04:58 PM delphi_ote...I have looked into applying already. But this is not about the money. This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?! Besides, this is not a win lose scenario or anything to do with numeric lottery odds. My intention is be in James Randi's labs making history in regards to ESP. I do have a life too and I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life. Take the test and use the money to feed starving children. Prove to the world and all the skeptics once and for all that psychic powers are real. Win the Nobel Prize and feed more starving children. Start a revolution in science and alter the course of history. One simple test is all it would take. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 519] Author : elaine Date : 2nd April 2006 04:59 PM Why couldn't I find the delete button sooner than elaine's lighting quick reflexes. I ment to post it as a private message... Just dig myself a hole now... Although I wanted the post below to be private, I still believe it to be true. So if im banned from this forum because of it, then frankly I'm not bothered. Fastest keystroke in the west :-). But honestly Zoinked, I have no doubt that you have the best of intentions. If you really do have this ability, please do apply for the challenge. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 520] Author : delphi_ote Date : 2nd April 2006 05:02 PM I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart. Instead of sitting around here running your mouth, why aren't you filling out the application forms? I'm starting to think you just came here to get attention. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 521] Author : Zoinked168 Date : 2nd April 2006 05:04 PM Take the test and use the money to feed starving children. Prove to the world and all the skeptics once and for all that psychic powers are real. Win the Nobel Prize and feed more starving children. Start a revolution in science and alter the course of history. One simple test is all it would take. I'll prove that this is the real deal. But feeding starving children for a day isn't going to make a big impact is it? I'd sooner take the money, and live life as I do now, and help solve the bigger problems of the world. But for now, one small step at a time aye? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 522] Author : Kelly Date : 2nd April 2006 05:06 PM Kelly, Before I can answer your valid questions, I have one for you. What is a "normal ability"? The whole concept behind ESP is that everyone could potentially tap into this unused resource in our brain. This is why I suggest you try it yourself. I have briefly talked about locating people with my past mentor sometime ago now. I have some rough idea where to start but even with a natural ability, it is useless without a good technique. Everything connected to humans has evolved and improved over time, even thinking and logic for example. It would require a lot of my time to develop this independently. This is one skill out of dozens of known phenomena, and there are still limitless of unknown ones too yet to be developed. If you have looked into energy practices such as Qi-Gong you will notice that the technique has practically not evolved at all since it was established and there is only "one way of doing it", this I believe to be false not to question and improve upon something which dates back thousands of years. I really hope you can see my view-point on this and see if it makes a little sense. I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart. Until then, take it as you will. I force feed no one. I only ask for everyone and anyone who takes an interest in ESP to experiment for themselves before they apply straight-up knock'em down approach. Perhaps I am naive in my belief's, but regardless I see the practicalities and possible usages for the world we live in today. I'm off to bed now. I hope that this has partly answered your questions. I will elaborate and answer any more questions you may have when I am able too :) You need to start your own thread with this. You did not answer any of my questions, but instead posed new ones which are off topic for this subject matter. Please be considerate and not hijack this thread with your desired topic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 523] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 2nd April 2006 05:23 PM This term is coined too loosely for start and what I do know is that I deal with the manipulation of quantimbioelectromagnetic energy. Really? Now my Magical Superpowers are caused by radiotelebiomagnoelectric radiation ... which makes my Magic Superpowers even more scientific than yours. And, alas, equally undemonstrable. I have nothing to prove but to myself. I hope people will understand that one day ... This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?! Since apparently you refuse to demonstrate your supposed powers to the waiting world, it seems no-one's ever going to "see" or "understand" anything. Put up or shut up. I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life. You should consider it. Muridae is a step up from Mustelidae. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 524] Author : ysabella Date : 2nd April 2006 06:12 PM Dr.Adequate, don't make my avatar come after you. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 525] Author : meg Date : 2nd April 2006 07:01 PM Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you. Can we look at what you just did? You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright. Here's something I dare you to do. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?" "Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?" For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo. I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up. On a different thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 526] Author : RSLancastr Date : 2nd April 2006 08:15 PM kelly, i think the jokes about psychics is a bad idea. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 527] Author : Helianthus Date : 2nd April 2006 08:25 PM Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you. Can we look at what you just did? You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright. Here's something I dare you to do. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?" "Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?" For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo. I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up. On a different thread. Hey Zoe, I'm agreeing with Meg wholeheartedly, in a kind way, on all of this and if you look at my earliest posts you'll know that I have been fully open about being a believer. You appear to be very well meaning but I think you need to examine yourself clearly and take her criticisms as constructive (and kind). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 528] Author : Kelly Date : 2nd April 2006 08:56 PM Hey Zoe, When you return, please be sure to start your own thread as strongly suggested. I would still like to know the answers to my previous questions. RL: I'm not going to do a post with psychic jokes. While generic psychic jokes don't bother me, they might bother other people. Not only that, but I do think a post like that would detract from the seriousness of the subject matter. I was at a low when I asked that, but sense is prevailing now. All: I just love Meg, and especially when she gets riled up. The thing about Meg is, that even though angered, she still is dead on in her reasoning. It's that mom in her. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 529] Author : meg Date : 2nd April 2006 09:16 PM Aw.. :o I love you too, Kelly :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 530] Author : delphi_ote Date : 2nd April 2006 11:49 PM Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you. Can we look at what you just did? You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright. Here's something I dare you to do. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?" "Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?" For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo. I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up. On a different thread. :clap: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 531] Author : tonyyouens Date : 3rd April 2006 05:14 AM I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting... "Dear Mr Youens Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics." They did add... "There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part." I've begun looking at this case but early days yet. Tony Youens -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 532] Author : Kelly Date : 3rd April 2006 06:06 AM I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting... "Dear Mr Youens Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics." They did add... "There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part." I've begun looking at this case but early days yet. Tony Youens Hi Tony, Thank you for the link. Let us know what happens with your research on that case. I checked out your summary, and it looks like it's "business as usual" with the psychic claims of aiding police. (sigh) Take care, Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 533] Author : Kelly Date : 3rd April 2006 11:58 AM A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand: "Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick. I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 534] Author : meg Date : 3rd April 2006 12:06 PM Wow. That's awesome, Kelly! Great work on the blog. It looks like you're really reaching people with it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 535] Author : John Jackson Date : 3rd April 2006 12:12 PM Again this is in the UK, but we've collected responses from police forces here regarding psychics' claims of 'helping the police'. See: http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=57.0 The replies speak for themselves. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 536] Author : tonyyouens Date : 3rd April 2006 12:21 PM That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well. Tony -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 537] Author : delphi_ote Date : 3rd April 2006 12:26 PM KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic. If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!") -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 538] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 3rd April 2006 12:41 PM That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well. TonyAlso linked in Psychic Detectives Very nice. Are there any Americans who'd like to do something similar? TY --- Psychic Detectives links to some of your articles --- are there any other relevant ones we've missed? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 539] Author : tonyyouens Date : 3rd April 2006 01:47 PM Okay SkepticWiki link put in as well. The main links on my site other than Dennis McKenzie and the current commentary are; The Christine Holohan case which was much debated on the JREF forum at one time. http://www.tonyyouens.com/ruislip_murder.htm and a commentary 'The unpleasant world of the psychic detective' at: http://www.tonyyouens.com/commentary.htm#detectives which deals with the case of Lisa Dorrian. I was contacted by the psychic in question who thought my tone a little abrasive. I told him he would be of no use and indeed he wasn't. I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe? Kind regards to all. Tony -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 540] Author : Kelly Date : 3rd April 2006 01:48 PM KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic. If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!") Hello Delphi_ote, Early on in the thread, there is some talk about me attending TAM on a scholarship and giving a report. I believe Luke T. initiated this discussion. I'm not the greatest public speaker, but I would be happy to do this if the foundation wishes. I hope you are a robust fellow, and have decent medical coverage, as I am not a petite little thing. :) Your post made me smile. Thank you! Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 541] Author : meg Date : 3rd April 2006 02:08 PM I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe? I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony? Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 542] Author : tonyyouens Date : 3rd April 2006 02:22 PM I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony? To be honest I haven't given it much thought. I was thinking maybe those of us in the UK might be able to offer a join challenge on various websites challenging psychics to come up with evidence that they a) have been asked to assist by the police and b) the information helped solve the crime. I wasn't thinking of offering a cash challenge just asking for some kind of proof. Anyway something like that - but as I say I haven't really thought about it. Any suggestions? Tony -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 543] Author : Kelly Date : 3rd April 2006 02:27 PM Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site. Claus? Fowlsound? What say you? We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 544] Author : tonyyouens Date : 3rd April 2006 02:38 PM We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site. I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed. I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further. I'm in! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 545] Author : Kelly Date : 3rd April 2006 02:50 PM I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed. I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further. I'm in! I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit: A) Their true identity and contact info B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided AND C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 546] Author : Gr8wight Date : 3rd April 2006 08:06 PM I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit: A) Their true identity and contact info B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided AND C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 547] Author : Kelly Date : 3rd April 2006 08:31 PM Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project. I suppose we could just do C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, which would be verified. We could then try to satisfy the question as to whether or not LE requests their help and pays for it, and if in their opinion, the psychics' tips ever solved a crime. We would then have a survey that reflected LE's opinion about the matter. Adding A and B would give us a more well rounded answer to the question of psychics' abilities to solve cases. The UK study was done by going directly to LE and asking the question. To survey all LE in the US would be quite a task. I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 548] Author : delphi_ote Date : 3rd April 2006 09:01 PM Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site. Claus? Fowlsound? What say you? We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site. Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 549] Author : RSLancastr Date : 3rd April 2006 09:44 PM KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic.Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration. And I'm glad you changed your mind about the "humor" thing! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 550] Author : Gr8wight Date : 4th April 2006 06:06 AM I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result. It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything. (edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 551] Author : elaine Date : 4th April 2006 06:17 AM A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand: "Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick. I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings." One down.... Congratulations Kelly!! As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 552] Author : Kelly Date : 4th April 2006 11:58 AM Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you. Thank you for letting me know. I noticed he hadn't been around. Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration. I don't know much about the scholarship, other than its existence. I would guess we should see what comes of that first. Thank you for your generosity. It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything. (edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms) LOL If I can learn something from you, I would guess you might learn something from me. Yes, they would have an excuse for everything, but the more we can help the general public understand, isn't that the bottom line? I'm not sure how many psychics will come clean because of education. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 553] Author : Kelly Date : 4th April 2006 11:59 AM As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog. Hi Elaine, Let's hope thats what she's doing! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 554] Author : Kelly Date : 5th April 2006 10:38 AM It's somewhat off topic, but we were featured in an article in the Columbia News Service today. We hope it will be picked up by many newspapers across the country. I am very pleased that Jason's photo is on here so prominently! http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2006-04-04/lemoult-missingpeople -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 555] Author : Roadtoad Date : 5th April 2006 02:05 PM I would hardly consider that to be off-topic. If anything, it reiterates what we should have been concentrating on all along, except the "psychics" insist on interfering for their own selfish reasons. Great article, and congrats, Kelly! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 556] Author : Kelly Date : 6th April 2006 11:31 AM Thanks, RT! Here's another media outlet giving psychics validity: http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8474636/detail.html I wonder if they'll do a follow up to tell us that they were wrong. I doubt it. They even name the psychics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 557] Author : Gr8wight Date : 6th April 2006 08:23 PM Thanks, RT! Here's another media outlet giving psychics validity: http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8474636/detail.html I wonder if they'll do a follow up to tell us that they were wrong. I doubt it. They even name the psychics. I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 558] Author : Kelly Date : 6th April 2006 10:42 PM I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it. Thank you for contacting him and giving him the blog link. I just don't see the reason for even bringing it up. I hope the reporter will open to understanding what impact this has. I know you did a fine job in acting as a voice of reason amidst this insanity. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 559] Author : Kelly Date : 7th April 2006 12:39 AM Our own meg is the guest writer on the blog series today. You can read it here: http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/04/4706-pmp-amazing-mom-who-knows-things.html Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 560] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 7th April 2006 03:45 AM I've just read Marie Parker's story about her missing friend Audrey http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/33106-pmp-sylvia-and-friends-part-ii.html and I watched the clip with Sylvia Brown. I've never seen her "live" before, but I had a pretty good impression of her voice thanks to Randi's commentaries. That clip made me sick! :mad: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 561] Author : elaine Date : 7th April 2006 06:06 AM Our own meg is the guest writer on the blog series today. You can read it here: http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/04/4706-pmp-amazing-mom-who-knows-things.html Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things. Kelly Maybe I should do this in a different thread. I have to say, I'm so glad I found this forum last year. It's great to be able to "rub elbows" with so many articulate, intelligent people, like Meg, Kelly J, Fowlsound, Ed (where is Ed anyway?), Randfan.....you get the idea...too many too mention. It would be easier to name the not so intelligent folks, but I don't need to go there. Anyway, I'm learning alot, and hopefully building my skills for debate. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 562] Author : Gr8wight Date : 7th April 2006 07:17 AM Thank you for contacting him and giving him the blog link. I just don't see the reason for even bringing it up. I hope the reporter will open to understanding what impact this has. I know you did a fine job in acting as a voice of reason amidst this insanity. The reason for bringing it up: it attracts viewers, both those who believe and those who don't. I am reminded of a scene from the Howard Stern movie, Private Parts. Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes. Pig Vomit: How can that be? Researcher: Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what he'll say next." Pig Vomit: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern? Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day. Pig Vomit: But... if they hate him, why do they listen? Researcher: Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 563] Author : delphi_ote Date : 7th April 2006 09:22 AM Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things. Wow, meg! Getting feisty. I like it. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 564] Author : Kelly Date : 7th April 2006 06:53 PM I was out most of the day as our family here in town asked me to be with them while America's Most Wanted filmed the story of their missing daughter, Amber Harris. It should air in May. I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it. So much for their word that they would not mention the psychics again. The very next day, they do, and for no real reason that I can see: http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8512983/detail.html I've just read Marie Parker's story about her missing friend Audrey http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/33106-pmp-sylvia-and-friends-part-ii.html and I watched the clip with Sylvia Brown. I've never seen her "live" before, but I had a pretty good impression of her voice thanks to Randi's commentaries. That clip made me sick! :mad: Marie should have, but did not mention that when she asked Sylvia about the flowery hat, it was all made up. Sylvia said yes to the flowery hat, of course. I have to say, I'm so glad I found this forum last year. It's great to be able to "rub elbows" with so many articulate, intelligent people, like Meg, Fowlsound, Ed (where is Ed anyway?), Randfan.....you get the idea...too many too mention. It would be easier to name the not so intelligent folks, but I don't need to go there. Anyway, I'm learning alot, and hopefully building my skills for debate. I have no idea who Ed is, but I concur on the rest. This has been a great learning experience. Delphi, you know the saying: "Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn." That's our meg. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 565] Author : delphi_ote Date : 7th April 2006 08:27 PM "Hell hath no fury like a woman's mother's scorn." :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 566] Author : meg Date : 8th April 2006 04:55 AM Hah! Well, perhaps I am just a scorny mom :) I think that after reading that whole fabulous blog of Kelly's, there might be a lot more scornful, angry, feisty people in the world. I hope so. After reading the previous blog articles, I knew how I was feeling about it, and I guess I just wanted to say, "Are you starting to feel angry? Because, you're not alone, there. I'm feeling really angry about this, too." I think 'angry' is the appropriate emotional response to those articles. And I think getting people mad about it is just what I want to do. Angry people write letters to the media. Angry people make phone calls to complain. Angry people boycott stuff. Angry people sue. Angry people make hucksters, scam artists, and charlatans pack up and move on. I hope every one of Kelly's readers gets really, deeply, completely p*ssed off. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 567] Author : meg Date : 8th April 2006 06:03 AM Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent: To Craig Robinson - President and General Manager Stan Sanders - Vice President, News Jean Nemeti - Director of Community Relations and Programming Dear NBC4i News Managers, I was very upset to read your April 5th story headlined "Psychics Search Apartment of Missing OSU Student." I think if you were concerned with accurately portraying the news, a better headline might have been "Hucksters Con Family of Missing OSU Student" or "Scam Artists Victimize Traumatized Father". No "psychic" EVER has provided useful information that led to finding a missing person. No "psychic" has ever provided useful information that led to a crime being solved. Your station portraying these con artists as providing some kind of useful service, that might actually help find the missing person, was irresponsible. When a phone scam operator practises his art, do you report "Elderly Citizen has Nice Chat With Man Who Says He's From the Bank"? I encourage you to get your facts straight. Kelly Jolkowski, mother of missing son Jason Jolkowski (http://www.projectjason.org) has started a blog about these "psychic" predators. I encourage you and your staff to read it. http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/30606-pmp-introduction-to-psychics-and.html The heart wrenching stories there by families of missing people should open your eyes to what these "psychics" are really trying to do, which is take advantage of grieving people for their own personal gain. Your own reporting on "psychics" searching Brian Shaffer's apartment has just added to the publicity and fame of two of these scammers. I'm sure both of them will now assure people that they've "assisted the police on a missing person's case", and that it was reported on NBC4i, allowing people to assume that means they have been checked out and are the "real deal". These "psychics" do harm. They take money, energy, and time away from families searching for their missing loved ones. Money, energy and time that is better spent doing the activities that might actually find the missing person. They make up stories and cause untold grief, pain and stress to these families. I hope you will think twice before reporting about this type of activity again. Personally, I wish you would do some investigative reporting about these scam artists, and put THAT on your news. Expose these frauds for what they are. Sincerely Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 568] Author : Kelly Date : 8th April 2006 06:43 AM Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent: Awesome letter, Meg. I await their response. I'm still po'd that they lied, as they told gr8 that they would not mention it again, and then they did the very next day! (See previous posts with links) Gotta love angry moms when angry for good reason! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 569] Author : Kelly Date : 8th April 2006 07:19 AM Elaine: Thanks for posting a blog comment to Jennster. Her comment bothered me, and I wanted to respond to it, but I didn't want to alienate her either. Your comment was perfect. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 570] Author : elaine Date : 8th April 2006 07:31 AM Thank you. I just couldn't let the comment go. The commenter does remind me of a very well intentioned friend I used to have. But you know what they say about intentions..... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 571] Author : Kelly Date : 8th April 2006 08:07 AM For the folks who like to write letters, I have two cases here. Leslie Adams: family has been suspicious of ex-boyfriend from the beginning. He is now in jail for stalking her, but it sounds like he is not confessing, at least not yet. Psychics were brought in before the boyfriend was jailed. I let the family know about the series, but there was no response. I have not seen any follow-up on this. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/6597944/detail.html Case #2, Sueann Ray. She is deceased, murdered by her ex-husband, just as the family suspected all along. I know the dog searcher personally, and she told me that they came within a 100 ft (or yards...I can't recall) Psychics come on the scene and claim to have led police to near the location of the body. They're probably doing some retrofitting now. I haven't seen any news follow-ups stating that the psychics did indeed pinpoint the location. The family was not quiet in their belief that the ex-husband did something to Sueann, so this was public knowledge. I believe the Ray family has a large, wooded, acreage, so it's not a surprise that Ray put her there, private property, after all. http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75340 http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75813 I wonder what the police there have to say about it? Do they admit that the psychic did lead them to near the body vs what the searcher found? Why did the media still give the psychics credibility? BTW, the only reason the dog searcher had to quit is because it was on private property, and they had been threatened to stay off. They had no choice but to end the search. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 572] Author : Kelly Date : 9th April 2006 02:15 PM Poetic justice alert! I just received a call from the Fxxxxxxxx Scholarship folks in Washington, DC. They read yesterday's blog entry about "The Guarantee?" and they are very upset. They are not upset with me, but with Diego and what he did. At the time, University Police only gave him a slap on the hands, but the Fxxxxxx folks are ticked off and want to take it further. They said his priveliges/Visa could be revoked, depending upon what the university decides to do. I xxx'd out part of the scholarship name, since they do searches on it daily, and I don't want them poking around. I offered to delete their name from the blog, but they were ok with it staying. I think they were pretty shocked to have uncovered this. I told them frankly that I thought the U should confiscate his PC and make sure he did not attempt it again or actually scam someone. I hope they do that. I did ask them to let me know what happens. So, after all this time, perhaps justice will be served. Thanks for listening. Just a brief update about this: I called the woman from the scholarship, as I had not heard from her. She said they passed along all of the info to the university, including the blog entry. Since Diego is no longer on the scholarship, they will not be privy to what the university decides to do about him. She did tell me one very interesting thing though. She said that the woman at the university whom she gave all of the info to, acted as if she wasn't surprised at all, leading her to believe he's done this on more than one occasion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 573] Author : Gr8wight Date : 9th April 2006 09:13 PM Awesome letter, Meg. I await their response. I'm still po'd that they lied, as they told gr8 that they would not mention it again, and then they did the very next day! (See previous posts with links) Gotta love angry moms when angry for good reason! To be fair, the reporter I communicated with was the one who did the television segment on the psychics. When he said they would not be mentioned again, I'm sure he meant by him, on the television news. I'm sure he has no hand in what appears on the website. Edited to add: I replied to the reporter in question thusly. Mr Bowersock Thank you for your reply. From the point of view of someone who is skeptical of psychics and their alleged abilities, one of the things that bothers me about the way they are seen in the media is exactly what you describe. The general public sees a news article stating that psychics have been employed to help with a missing persons investigation. There is then no further mention of the psychics regardless of the outcome of the case. The fact is, no psychic has ever provided information leading directly to the recovery of a missing person, alive or dead. Unfortunately, the general public watching your news broadcast never hears that information. They are left with the impression that employing a psychic in this type of investigation is a reasonable thing to do. It is not. At best, the psychics will have no effect on the case. At worst, they will cause investigators to spend valuable time running down leads that will never pan out. Ask any missing persons expert. Time is one thing that cannot be spared for spurious investigations. The longer a person remains missing, the lower the odds that they will ever be found alive. And the odds go down fast. As a proponent of skepticism and critical thinking, I feel that it is very important for the public to hear that the psychics' assistance never leads to a successful resolution of a missing persons case. For more information on psychic detectives, and the impact they can have on the lives of families of missing persons I recommend you read the series of blog articles called Psychics and Missing Persons, at the blog Project Jason: Voice For The Missing. Thank you once again for your response, and for considering my comments. Paul Little I have not, to date, received a further reply. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 574] Author : Kelly Date : 10th April 2006 12:26 AM To be fair, the reporter I communicated with was the one who did the television segment on the psychics. When he said they would not be mentioned again, I'm sure he meant by him, on the television news. I'm sure he has no hand in what appears on the website. Edited to add: I replied to the reporter in question thusly. I have not, to date, received a further reply. Thanks, Paul for the efforts. I know it may not be that reporter's fault that psychics were again mentioned the very next day, but it is clear that station personnel are not communicating about this. My hope is that someone listens enough to bring it to management's attention. Only with their cooperation will we NOT see more of this. You do an excellent job of communicating and not appearing like the stereotypical cynical skeptic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 575] Author : Gr8wight Date : 10th April 2006 05:37 AM You do an excellent job of communicating and not appearing like the stereotypical cynical skeptic. Thank you, Kelly. It is an illusion I continue to try and cultivate. :) It's true. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 576] Author : Kelly Date : 10th April 2006 10:56 AM Thank you, Kelly. It is an illusion I continue to try and cultivate. :) It's true. Don't worry...your secret's safe with me. I noticed that another TV station in the city of the same missing person did a report on him, and they did NOT mention psychics. It's true. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 577] Author : Kelly Date : 10th April 2006 02:54 PM Here's a cool comment which was left on today's blog story, which is a pretty powerful one, BTW: "As someone who used to believe in psychics, I can tell you I will never again listen to anything they say." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 578] Author : RSLancastr Date : 10th April 2006 03:52 PM Always nice to see direct results, isn't it? Keep it up, I'm sure you'll see more! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 579] Author : Luke T. Date : 11th April 2006 06:04 AM Hey, I'm back and just as pissed as ever after catching up on my reading in this topic. Quantimbioelectromagnetism (sic). Holy, holy, holy. Can't even spell it right! Every couple hours since I read that post, I'm spontaneously laughing. "Quantumbioelectromagentism." BWA-HA-HA-HA! My wife probably was wondering why I was laughing in the shower this morning. Just posted a note to Jennster. Might be a little harsh. Oh, well. People need a clue. It's time to be a little harsh. Fight back. The older I get, the more I relate to De_Bunk's policy. ;) I'm babbling. Anyway, meg gets a big kiss for this: Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent: I was very upset to read your April 5th story headlined "Psychics Search Apartment of Missing OSU Student." I think if you were concerned with accurately portraying the news, a better headline might have been "Hucksters Con Family of Missing OSU Student" or "Scam Artists Victimize Traumatized Father". No "psychic" EVER has provided useful information that led to finding a missing person. No "psychic" has ever provided useful information that led to a crime being solved. Your station portraying these con artists as providing some kind of useful service, that might actually help find the missing person, was irresponsible. When a phone scam operator practises his art, do you report "Elderly Citizen has Nice Chat With Man Who Says He's From the Bank"? Meg Heh. And Meg tells me she doesn't feel as articulate as me. Shoooooot. You win, Meg. You win. If anybody needs a good swift kick in the crotch, it is the media. Well done! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 580] Author : Kelly Date : 11th April 2006 06:40 AM Luke! I missed you. I was telling myself last night that If I did not hear from you by this evening, I was going to call out the dogs. Good to see you. I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case. Are you still working on the dialog? This would be a part 2 for Dawn's story, which was posted yesterday. Readership has been climbing steadily. People are reading and learning. Thanks for your support. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 581] Author : Luke T. Date : 11th April 2006 07:10 AM Hmm. Was it cabby or meg who said she didn't feel articulate? I forget now. In either case, they both beat "I'm getting a R sound. And I see a body of water and some trees". :D Luke! I missed you. I was telling myself last night that If I did not hear from you by this evening, I was going to call out the dogs. Good to see you. I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case. Are you still working on the dialog? This would be a part 2 for Dawn's story, which was posted yesterday. Readership has been climbing steadily. People are reading and learning. Thanks for your support. Kelly Got called out of the country on business. I was not in a situation where I could work on the dialog. And I wasn't sure whether meg needs my help on that or not. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 582] Author : elaine Date : 11th April 2006 07:17 AM ...I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case. Kelly Hey...we gotch yo back :-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 583] Author : Kelly Date : 11th April 2006 07:25 AM Tag teaming works great! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 584] Author : meg Date : 11th April 2006 07:28 AM oops. I think I got confused as to who was doing what. Luke, do you want to and have time to work on the dialog? If so, go for it. If you don't, I can probably get to it later in the week. And a big kiss right back atcha. :) Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 585] Author : Luke T. Date : 11th April 2006 08:02 AM Okay. I've just read Dawn's story, and re-read the dialog that Dawn gave to Kelly, which was then sent to me. My blood is now in a state of boiling not often seen this far from the sun. I will do this story with the dialog. It will be my pleasure. First, I have to calm down. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 586] Author : Luke T. Date : 11th April 2006 08:24 AM Kelly, since the series is nearing the end, I was wondering if you would also like some along the lines of "closing thoughts" for the conclusion. I have a lot of things on my mind about this subject I would like to put down on paper and send to you. You ever notice that psychics tend to be dumber than a bag of hammers? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 587] Author : Kelly Date : 11th April 2006 09:32 AM Okay. I've just read Dawn's story, and re-read the dialog that Dawn gave to Kelly, which was then sent to me. My blood is now in a state of boiling not often seen this far from the sun. I will do this story with the dialog. It will be my pleasure. First, I have to calm down. Multi-quote doesn't seem to be working.... This dialog is from the remote viewing wherein the psychics said Lori was in the cabin. The one psychic then insisted she was right, even though she clearly wasn't. Talk about delusions! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 588] Author : Kelly Date : 11th April 2006 10:15 AM Kelly, since the series is nearing the end, I was wondering if you would also like some along the lines of "closing thoughts" for the conclusion. I have a lot of things on my mind about this subject I would like to put down on paper and send to you. You ever notice that psychics tend to be dumber than a bag of hammers? Could use the bag of hammers to knock some sense into them? Yes, I would be happy to have some closing comments from you. Because of the nature of my work and my workload, I don't do much ahead of time. Some call that "fly by the seat of your pants". I have an idea of how I want to close it, which involves something one of the "big names" sent me that I thought was quite profound. I'll add my own summary, of course. I am open to suggestions and another editorial of sorts from contributors. Thank you. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 589] Author : Kelly Date : 11th April 2006 11:20 PM An online acquantance told me that she heard Carla Baron used to be in soft porn movies before she went psycho, er, psychic. Anyone heard that one? Dawn (from yesterday's blog story) left a nice comment on the blog. She said: "RSLancastr, Your very welcome. My only hope is that people will learn from my mistakes and that possibly these so called psychics will understand the emotional trauma they cause. It’s tremendously difficult to ignore someone who calls you and states that they “know” where your loved one is or what’s happened to them. Psychics use tactics that are cruel and manipulative yet they claim that they only want to help. It is my belief that they only want attention or your money. If a psychic makes contact with you hang up the phone or tell them to solve the crime themselves and then they could REALLY be a hero (and then hang up). After reading what "Anonymous" wrote I feel it was well worth it." I think she's lurking here, as she said she was pleased to see the help and support I am receiving from the JREF members. Hi Dawn!:sewelcome: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 590] Author : hellaeon Date : 11th April 2006 11:49 PM Thankfully I have not had to deal with this kind of trauma and then on top of that the associated charlatans whom no doubt would have me immensly angry. Is there a link to Dawns story, I have missed it I think. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 591] Author : Kelly Date : 11th April 2006 11:54 PM Here's the link to Dawn's story. Get ready to be riled up. http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/04/41006-pmp-not-one-knew.html I'm taking Wednesday off the blog. I'm beat. (but not by the scammers!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 592] Author : Kelly Date : 12th April 2006 07:46 PM FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 593] Author : prewitt81 Date : 12th April 2006 07:59 PM FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part. Great news. I'm excited! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 594] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 12th April 2006 08:24 PM :Dancing_cool: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 595] Author : Waddauno Date : 12th April 2006 08:43 PM An online acquantance told me that she heard Carla Baron used to be in soft porn movies before she went psycho, er, psychic. Anyone heard that one? There are two Carla Barons listed in IMDB. There are no biographical details, but you may remember one from such films as "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama," and the other from the TV show "Dead Famous," where she played "Psychic Investigator." No photo, no other details like I said. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was the same person. Ain't allowed to post links, so www . imdb.com /find?s= all&q=carla+baron -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 596] Author : Kelly Date : 12th April 2006 08:49 PM I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now. "Kelly,Last night I poured through the info that you had offered. I had no more posted something regarding Sylvia Browne,in a positive light, that I started reading what you had offered. While I have just the amount of desperation to entertain the psychic route,I must admit that I felt myself rethinking it all. I was quite impressed with that information.I am not finished with it yet,and I am going to read and print it all,but I would like to thank you. I have some serious thinking to do." Yay! W, I'll look at your link in a sec.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 597] Author : Kelly Date : 12th April 2006 08:58 PM There are two Carla Barons listed in IMDB. There are no biographical details, but you may remember one from such films as "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama," and the other from the TV show "Dead Famous," where she played "Psychic Investigator." No photo, no other details like I said. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was the same person. Ain't allowed to post links, so www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=carla+baron The person who told me is pretty reliable as far as info goes. I'm not planning to do anything public with the info, but I would use it if I had to as a trump card if some family member is stuck on using her. I was just curious iof anyone else had heard that. Thanks for the look-up! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 598] Author : meg Date : 12th April 2006 08:59 PM You're doing it, Kelly. You are making a difference. YAY!!!!!! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 599] Author : delphi_ote Date : 12th April 2006 09:32 PM I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now. "Kelly,Last night I poured through the info that you had offered. I had no more posted something regarding Sylvia Browne,in a positive light, that I started reading what you had offered. While I have just the amount of desperation to entertain the psychic route,I must admit that I felt myself rethinking it all. I was quite impressed with that information.I am not finished with it yet,and I am going to read and print it all,but I would like to thank you. I have some serious thinking to do." Yay! W, I'll look at your link in a sec.... I can't believe how much you've accomplished in such a short time, Kelly! Every time I stop by this thread, you and the others have in some way changed the real world for the better. I wish I could do more than cheerlead, but dammit I'll cheerlead my butt off! You should be proud. You're routing the vultures! :bananalama: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 600] Author : rjh01 Date : 13th April 2006 01:38 AM This is one of the longer serious threads I have read. No serious derailments or the like. I think KellyJ needs to get an award or some such thing for this thread and the other things she has done. Well she can have a big pat on the back from me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 601] Author : chillzero Date : 13th April 2006 03:54 AM This is one of the longer serious threads I have read. No serious derailments or the like. I think KellyJ needs to get an award or some such thing for this thread and the other things she has done. Well she can have a big pat on the back from me. I second that - big round of applause for Kelly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 602] Author : ChristineR Date : 13th April 2006 04:36 AM The "Carla Baron" on Dead Famous and Fear is the "psychic." She lists it on her website. It may or may not be the "Carla Baron" in Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-a-rama. I've seen that movie--pretty forgettable, but it does have its share of unclad female bodies. If anyone cares to watch it, it's fairly easy to find. Does anyone think one of these (http://www.badmovies.org/movies/slimebowl/slimebowl1.jpg)women is Carla Baron? I'm pretty sure the actress in front is "Carla Baron." If so, embarassing pictures of her are as close as your local video store. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 603] Author : Luke T. Date : 13th April 2006 05:31 AM The "Carla Baron" on Dead Famous and Fear is the "psychic." She lists it on her website. It may or may not be the "Carla Baron" in Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-a-rama. I've seen that movie--pretty forgettable, but it does have its share of unclad female bodies. If anyone cares to watch it, it's fairly easy to find. Does anyone think one of these (http://www.badmovies.org/movies/slimebowl/slimebowl1.jpg)women is Carla Baron? I'm pretty sure the actress in front is "Carla Baron." If so, embarassing pictures of her are as close as your local video store. This site (http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html) has a photo of the psychic Carla Baron. Here is a video montage (http://www.chrono.org/carla/carlabaron20m.wmv) of psychic Carla Baron. In one portion, she channels Jim Morrison! There does appear to be a resemblance to the soft porn actress. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 604] Author : ChristineR Date : 13th April 2006 05:43 AM Another image of scream-queen Carla Baron: This is from an adult site. The image is an inoffensive head shot. http://www.mrskin.com/data/star/00/36/67/biopic2_25610.jpg Well, the eighties hair and make up are kind of offensive, but the image has no nudity. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 605] Author : Luke T. Date : 13th April 2006 06:02 AM Forum rules prevent me from writing what I imagine a psychic reading on the set of a porn movie would be like. Only a predator psychic could make a job in the porn industry look respectable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 606] Author : Kiless Date : 13th April 2006 06:14 AM Gosh, you could make a great skeptical porn that makes fun of psychics. 'Yes, I see a big development in your future....ooooooo yeahh.....' :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 607] Author : tsg Date : 13th April 2006 06:25 AM I'm not trying to start a fight. Just my $0.02 and I'll shut up about it. Whether or not Carla Baron used to be a soft-core porn star really shouldn't be an issue. It's no more than poisoning the well. While the morality of acting in adult films may be an issue for some, the focus should be on her actions as a psychic. Refute her claims of having "helped find" missing people because that's what's important. "Oh yeah, and she used to be a porn star" is just petty, in my opinion, and says nothing one way or the other about her abilities to find people. I'm not defending her as a psychic, mind you, but if the point is that psychics do more harm than good, then let's focus on the psychic aspect and less on previous work histories that don't have anything to do with it. Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Rant over. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 608] Author : elaine Date : 13th April 2006 06:29 AM Great job Kelly, on making a difference! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 609] Author : ChristineR Date : 13th April 2006 06:36 AM Interestingly, her career hasn't really changed much. Before she was making sleazy B-movies with supernatural themes. Now she's making sleazy "based on a true story" movies with supernatural themes. I haven't seen Dead Famous or Fear but apparently she was playing a fictional psychic who happened to be just like "real" psychic Carla Baron. Now if in younger days she showed more skin, that doesn't bother me. She started getting jobs in a genre (B-horror) that pretty demands it, and eventually the clothes came off. I wonder if she thought it was a natural transtition from the pretty girl who gets butchered in the third act to the mysterious, somewhat more mature but still attractive, psychic who warns the pretty girl (and gets butchered for her good intentions)--and at some point, decided to play the part in real life. She has apparently had more success acting for desperate people than she did acting for late night movie audiences. All this assumes it really is the same woman, of course. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 610] Author : Roadtoad Date : 13th April 2006 07:04 AM TSG has made a valid point. We could go on and on about Carla Baron's past in porn, whether it's true or not, but the reality is that the Carla Baron we need to be discussing is the one who's subjecting people searching for missing loved ones to emotional blackmail. Enough is enough. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 611] Author : Kelly Date : 13th April 2006 07:18 AM I don't really care if Baron was a soft porn star or not. My level of respect for her was at the bottom before, so it can't go any lower. As mentioned, I would only use this info as a very last resort for a family who was considering using her "services". There are some Christians who would ignore that the bible clearly states we are not to delve into this type of thing our of desperation. They may not be able to ignore that, coupled with what they would most likely deem as a huge morals issue. They would not want to associate with someone who did that for a living. Who knows, I may never have to use it, but I did want to have it checked out for the record. I only have one family I assist right now who recently worked with her. I emailed them a couple of months ago, asking about the outcome, and they did not respond. Since they already have her guesses in hand, there is no reason to discuss anything else. At some point in time, I will ask them again about the outcome. Just as an FYI for me, I'll check out all the links provided this evening when I am at home. Thank you for all the kind words and support, everyone. It really means alot to me. Since Delphi Ote is our cheerleader, I vote to have him wear a skirt and ponytails. Wouldn't we all like to see that? ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 612] Author : Gr8wight Date : 13th April 2006 07:45 AM tsg is 100% correct. Pointing out Carla Baron's alleged previous work in soft core porn films is one of two things. If correct, it is an ad hominem attack, and has no bearing on her current career activities. If incorrect, and there is another Carla Baron, it is potentially slander. I would avoid mentioning it to anyone for any reason. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 613] Author : ChristineR Date : 13th April 2006 07:54 AM Ah, but if it is the same woman, it does have bearing on her current career activities. Not the nudity, but she is still acting in the supernatural genre. She is using her acting talents to advertise herself as a psychic, and vice versa. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 614] Author : Luke T. Date : 13th April 2006 09:50 AM Okay, Kelly. I have written an article about the dialogue between Dawn and the psychics. Emailed to you. I looked up some stuff on the murder of her friend which I put in the article, but I will need Dawn to verify I got the facts straight. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 615] Author : Kelly Date : 13th April 2006 10:47 AM Okay, Kelly. I have written an article about the dialogue between Dawn and the psychics. Emailed to you. I looked up some stuff on the murder of her friend which I put in the article, but I will need Dawn to verify I got the facts straight. Thanks! The email is on its way to Dawn to proof. Thanks, Luke T. Your writings are superb, as always. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 616] Author : Jon. Date : 13th April 2006 11:25 AM I don't know if this has been mentioned on the forum yet or not, but here in Vancouver a young fellow (Graham McMynn) was kidnapped a couple of weeks ago. He was found, confined by his kidnappers but safe and not very badly hurt, by the police yesterday. AFAIK, no psychics were involved.:) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 617] Author : Kelly Date : 13th April 2006 11:29 AM I don't know if this has been mentioned on the forum yet or not, but here in Vancouver a young fellow (Graham McMynn) was kidnapped a couple of weeks ago. He was found, confined by his kidnappers but safe and not very badly hurt, by the police yesterday. AFAIK, no psychics were involved.:) Amazing on both counts: No Psychics He wasn't killed I don't hear as much about the Canadian cases since we just work in the US, but there are so many that it's impossible to know about all of them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 618] Author : RSLancastr Date : 13th April 2006 11:46 AM FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part. That's great news! I look forward to seeing it. I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now.You continue to make a difference in people's lives, Kelly. Bravo! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 619] Author : RSLancastr Date : 13th April 2006 12:03 PM Yes, whether Carla Baron was a porn actress or not, it has no bearing on her "psychic abilities." It's like the people who keep going on about John Edward's career as a ballroom dance instructor - so what? Is there some sort of "acceptable" career path for a psychic? As has already been said, it is, at best, an ad hominem attack. Kelly, if you wish to save this (assuming it is true) as a "last card" to use with families who would be offended by such a career choice, that's obviously your call. Just know that it has no skeptical/logical basis as a criticism. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 620] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 13th April 2006 02:28 PM I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now. FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part. :wave1 Congratulations, this is great news.:) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 621] Author : Mr. Stick Date : 13th April 2006 02:50 PM I'm not trying to start a fight. Just my $0.02 and I'll shut up about it. Whether or not Carla Baron used to be a soft-core porn star really shouldn't be an issue. It's no more than poisoning the well. While the morality of acting in adult films may be an issue for some, the focus should be on her actions as a psychic. Refute her claims of having "helped find" missing people because that's what's important. "Oh yeah, and she used to be a porn star" is just petty, in my opinion, and says nothing one way or the other about her abilities to find people. I'm not defending her as a psychic, mind you, but if the point is that psychics do more harm than good, then let's focus on the psychic aspect and less on previous work histories that don't have anything to do with it. Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Rant over. I second that. I can see how it could be an issue for some, especially in the US, but it's not really relevant. In some other countries it would never be an issue of interest. In my country we have a politician who participated in a number of porn (not soft-core, I can tell you!) movies in the seventies. She is now a member of both the Copenhagen city council and the national parliament, and though someone tried to use her former career to slander her at the last election, nobody really gave a damn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 622] Author : Kelly Date : 13th April 2006 11:05 PM As has already been said, it is, at best, an ad hominem attack. Kelly, if you wish to save this (assuming it is true) as a "last card" to use with families who would be offended by such a career choice, that's obviously your call. Just know that it has no skeptical/logical basis as a criticism. I want to retire this issue after explaining the possible effect on a family member who has a certain Christian mindset. Note to self: Don't post on this thread when low emotionally. It tends to reflect a lack of good judgement. Example: The jokes on the blog idea. :o I don't really care if Baron was a soft porn star or not. My level of respect for her was at the bottom before, so it can't go any lower. As mentioned, I would only use this info as a very last resort for a family who was considering using her "services". There are some Christians who would ignore that the bible clearly states we are not to delve into this type of thing our of desperation. They may not be able to ignore that, coupled with what they would most likely deem as a huge morals issue. They would not want to associate with someone who did that for a living. If any of you read the 1st story that mentioned SBrowne, you may have wondered what relevance the following has: "Thousands upon thousands are taken in by her deceptions. They buy her books, and they pay her for readings. They even pay $250 to join her "Christian church", which is an abomination to real Christianity, claiming that God is a woman who created God the man, reincarnation is real, there is no such thing as sin or hell, and Jesus ran off to France with Mary Magdelene, having never died on the cross." A person who is Christian should be able to read the above statement and see that Browne's "church" is not Christian at all, as she claims. None of the above bolded statements has relevance in Christian theology. It's simply Browne's made up religion. A learned Christian would see this as fraudulent. So, even if they chose to ignore the warnings not to delve into things paranormal, they might not be able to also ignore this claim. The two negatives may be enough for them to make the decision not to have anything to do with Browne. Although it is not the same scenario as the Baron soft porn issue, Christians may have a hard time ignoring this. (See my quoted material above) I doubt that it will come to pass that I feel the need to use that as a trump card with a family, especially if I do not know for sure it was the same woman. If I don't know for sure, I will not use it. It would not be professional to do so. Thank you for all your comments/words of wisdom on that issue. I hope this makes sense. It's getting late and I'm running out of steam. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 623] Author : RSLancastr Date : 14th April 2006 03:57 AM If any of you read the 1st story that mentioned SBrowne, you may have wondered what relevance the following has: "Thousands upon thousands are taken in by her deceptions. They buy her books, and they pay her for readings. They even pay $250 to join her "Christian church", which is an abomination to real Christianity...Yes, if I do end up putting together a StopKaz-style site about Browne, it will include a (small) section which examines her theology. I will also include a section about her criminal conviction on investment fraud. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_browne#Criminal_conviction) Neither of these things has any direct bearing on whether or not she really is psychic, but they do, as they say, "go to character," and might help in convincing some people that she is not legit. So I understand your looking into the possible use of Carla's "acting resume'". I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking of saying or implying something along the lines of "she was in porn, so how could she be psychic?" Issue retired. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 624] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 14th April 2006 04:40 AM A person who is Christian should be able to read the above statement and see that Browne's "church" is not Christian at all, as she claims. None of the above bolded statements has relevance in Christian theology. It's simply Browne's made up religion. A learned Christian would see this as fraudulent. Well actually you don't have to be St Augustine to see a few problems with this. It's not one of the subtler doctrinal errors, is it? Now I'm not one for religious orthodoxy, as you know, and if the woman merely had, say, tendencies towards semi-Pelagianism, then we might cut her a little slack. Barking lunacy, on the other hand, is fair game. Indeed, you might focus less on the heretical nature of her remarks and more on the fact that they show her to be OUT OF HER FREAKIN' TREE. The origin of this nonsense is one Laurence Gardner, who wrote an incredibly stupid book called Bloodline of the Holy Grail. His website (http://www.graal.co.uk/bloodlinelecture.html) So much bogus scholarship ... arrgh ... the word "Messiah" means "crocodlie fat" ... the word "Grail" is Mesopotamian for "the nectar of supreme excellence" ... And how did I know the Knights Templar would be involved in all this? BECAUSE THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR ARE BEHIND EVERYTHING! THEY'VE BEEN SECRETLY RUNNING THE WORLD EVER SINCE PHILIP THE FAIR HAD THEM BURNT AT THE STAKE IN 1314! BEING LITTLE HEAPS OF ASH IS ALL PART OF THE PLAN! Effin' idiot. If you guys ever want to burn him at the stake, I'll bring marshmallows. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 625] Author : Dr Adequate Date : 14th April 2006 05:45 AM http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9231/kt5jw.jpg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 626] Author : delphi_ote Date : 14th April 2006 07:43 AM http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9231/kt5jw.jpg :dl: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 627] Author : elaine Date : 14th April 2006 07:47 AM That is funny Dr. A. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program... Good job on today's entry, Luke T (but that goes without saying) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 628] Author : Kelly Date : 14th April 2006 10:02 AM Now I'm not one for religious orthodoxy, as you know, and if the woman merely had, say, tendencies towards semi-Pelagianism, then we might cut her a little slack. Barking lunacy, on the other hand, is fair game. Indeed, you might focus less on the heretical nature of her remarks and more on the fact that they show her to be OUT OF HER FREAKIN' TREE. The origin of this nonsense is one Laurence Gardner, who wrote an incredibly stupid book called Bloodline of the Holy Grail. His website (http://www.graal.co.uk/bloodlinelecture.html) So she stole it all from someone else? I should have known. Of course it would make sense as various heresies have come and gone throughout the ages, and some having stuck around, too. It also reeks of the DaVinci Code to some extent. Yes, it's plain nuts. Neither of these things has any direct bearing on whether or not she really is psychic, but they do, as they say, "go to character," and might help in convincing some people that she is not legit. So I understand your looking into the possible use of Carla's "acting resume'". I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking of saying or implying something along the lines of "she was in porn, so how could she be psychic?" Issue retired. :) That's right. Just as there is no connection between Browne's religious beliefs and her psychic "powers", there is no connection between Baron's claimed abilities and her past. As Elaine mentioned, be sure to check out Luke's entry on the blog today, and the transcript of Dawn and the psychics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 629] Author : RSLancastr Date : 14th April 2006 10:09 AM As Elaine mentioned, be sure to check out Luke's entry on the blog today, and the transcript of Dawn and the psychics. I read as much of the transcript as I could stomach in one sitting. I kept picturing them as a couple of teenage "Valley Girls." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 630] Author : Luke T. Date : 14th April 2006 11:24 AM I read as much of the transcript as I could stomach in one sitting. I kept picturing them as a couple of teenage "Valley Girls." When you read the transcript and imagine what it sounds like from the perspective of a believer who is missing a loved one, you can just imagine how chilling it must have sounded to hear that your loved one is tied up in an attic and the descriptions of her captors, and how the captors could see the remote viewing psychics and were glaring at them, and how the victim could see them. You can imagine how coldly, terrifyingly riveting it would be to an emotionally vulnerable person. And the pressure they would feel to rescue their loved one from the situation. Bloodsucking vampires, these psychics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 631] Author : elaine Date : 14th April 2006 11:31 AM When you read the transcript and imagine what it sounds like from the perspective of a believer who is missing a loved one, you can just imagine how chilling it must have sounded to hear that your loved one is tied up in an attic and the descriptions of her captors, and how the captors could see the remote viewing psychics and were glaring at them, and how the victim could see them. You can imagine how coldly, terrifyingly riveting it would be to an emotionally vulnerable person. And the pressure they would feel to rescue their loved one from the situation. Bloodsucking vampires, these psychics. My roommate despises psychics. I thought about referring him to Kelly's blog, but I'm afraid his head would explode, and then I'd be stuck paying the mortgage by myself. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 632] Author : Kelly Date : 14th April 2006 02:29 PM I read as much of the transcript as I could stomach in one sitting. I kept picturing them as a couple of teenage "Valley Girls." Robert, you asked if we know how old these psychics are, and Dawn responded. She does not know how old Linda and Belle are, having never met them. Kittiie, aka Tracy, is single, 37, lives in Syracuse, NY, has 3 children and 2 grandchildren. Her Yahoo profile states she is raising all of them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 633] Author : RSLancastr Date : 14th April 2006 02:51 PM Robert, you asked if we know how old these psychics are, and Dawn responded. She does not know how old Linda and Belle are, having never met them. Kittiie, aka Tracy, is single, 37, lives in Syracuse, NY, has 3 children and 2 grandchildren. Her Yahoo profile states she is raising all of them.All three of them seem to be in their teens, emotionally. Edited to add: two grandchildren at 37? Yikes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 634] Author : Roadtoad Date : 14th April 2006 05:15 PM Bloodsucking vampires, these psychics. Hey, hey, HEY! No slandering Vampires around here, dammit! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 635] Author : Kelly Date : 14th April 2006 05:20 PM Anyone want to register in another forum and (gently) challenge the "resident" psychic? He's always spouting off ridiculous stuff about his dreams and more. I have a relationship with the forum owner, so it would be better coming from someone unknown/unrelated to me. His name is "Rocky" and you can find him on this thread: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37076 Unfortunately, the subforum where this is posted is private. Only registered members can see it. This is what he said on this post: "if any of you had a clue how real the images are... the problem is, when you get a vision, is finding a way to make sense of it. I told law enforcement the kids were in Montana... they said I said I was friggen crazy and hung up the phone. When news came out they were in Montana the whole time, all I could do is sigh, but for the bonehead at the FBI that slammed the phone in my ear... you should have listened.... If you would have listened, both children would have been found alive." Yeh, right, Rocky. Montana is a huge state. Edited to add a thread in which Rocky was dead wrong, but never came back to admit it: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17704&page=4&pp=25&highlight=rocky -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 636] Author : elaine Date : 14th April 2006 07:30 PM I thought about it, but I'm better at playing bad cop. Tact, not my gift. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 637] Author : meg Date : 16th April 2006 05:24 PM Anyone want to register in another forum and (gently) challenge the "resident" psychic? He's always spouting off ridiculous stuff about his dreams and more. I have a relationship with the forum owner, so it would be better coming from someone unknown/unrelated to me. His name is "Rocky" and you can find him on this thread:... Well, I tried, Kelly. But my registration "did not meet our membership requirements", so it was deleted. I've written to ask why. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 638] Author : Kelly Date : 16th April 2006 06:12 PM Thanks for trying. Let me know if they respond to you and what they have to say. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 639] Author : Kelly Date : 16th April 2006 09:40 PM I'm getting a few blog hits from this forum. Does anyone know anything about them? Thanks. http://badpsychic.proboards53.com/index.cgi -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 640] Author : ImaginalDisc Date : 16th April 2006 10:02 PM I'm getting a few blog hits from this forum. Does anyone know anything about them? Thanks. http://badpsychic.proboards53.com/index.cgi Dang, it won't me register with a free email. Oh, I meant the other forum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 641] Author : Katachresis Date : 16th April 2006 10:13 PM Anyone want to register in another forum ... http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37076 ... ...Unfortunately, the subforum where this is posted is private. Only ... ...Edited to add a thread in which Rocky was dead wrong, but never came back to admit it: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17704&page=4&pp=25&highlight=rocky OK, I'm in. I'll see what I can find, and let you know what happens. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 642] Author : Kelly Date : 16th April 2006 10:16 PM I see you. Have fun in there. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 643] Author : Katachresis Date : 16th April 2006 10:25 PM It looks like a fundraising scam from what I see (from his website): "On the news last night.... We are continuously expanding our system, but for us to finish doing it right would cost millions. It costs us anywhere from $5K-$50K to install each probe depending on the amount of traffic going through the site, a lot of larger companies have paid to install their own probes. I've spent a lot of time over the last 3 1/2 years (since my daughter's best friend was kidnapped and killed by a pedovile) trying to make the world a safer place for our children. I fought for the amber alert, and the online databases, and have spent thousands of hours over the last few years helping to design and develop a protection system for the internet. But, I am quite thankful for all the geniuses that volunteered their time in helping put it all together, they are in place to run the operation. My concentration is changing to fundraising at this point, but I have no experience in raising money for an operation of this caliber and would love to hear from anyone willing to help...(email address here) Project ORN where the predators, become the hunted... ORN - Offender Registration Network" ETA: OH, and I forgot: "Project ORN DONATION $100 Quantity:" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 644] Author : Kelly Date : 16th April 2006 10:40 PM It looks like a fundraising scam from what I see (from his website): "On the news last night.... We are continuously expanding our system, but for us to finish doing it right would cost millions. It costs us anywhere from $5K-$50K to install each probe depending on the amount of traffic going through the site, a lot of larger companies have paid to install their own probes. I've spent a lot of time over the last 3 1/2 years (since my daughter's best friend was kidnapped and killed by a pedovile) trying to make the world a safer place for our children. I fought for the amber alert, and the online databases, and have spent thousands of hours over the last few years helping to design and develop a protection system for the internet. But, I am quite thankful for all the geniuses that volunteered their time in helping put it all together, they are in place to run the operation. My concentration is changing to fundraising at this point, but I have no experience in raising money for an operation of this caliber and would love to hear from anyone willing to help...(email address here) Project ORN where the predators, become the hunted... ORN - Offender Registration Network" ETA: OH, and I forgot: "Project ORN DONATION $100 Quantity:" I saw that, too, but I don't think that has anything to do with his claimed psychic abilities. He never mentions this on that forum that I have noticed. It may be time comsuming to find each thread where he mentions his visions, etc, other than the vague one I posted. He never does explain that, not is it explained anywhere else. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 645] Author : rjh01 Date : 16th April 2006 11:42 PM Something strange. Click on 'main page' (top right hand corner) and it goes to http://www.randi.org/ . No joke. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 646] Author : John Jackson Date : 17th April 2006 03:49 AM I'm getting a few blog hits from this forum. Does anyone know anything about them? Thanks. http://badpsychic.proboards53.com/index.cgi Yes, Kelly. It's another UK skeptically orientated site/forum. The project is going to be relaunched shortly with a new name and new look which is why it's currently only readable by members. It should be open in the not too distant future. John -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 647] Author : chillzero Date : 17th April 2006 04:56 AM It looks like a fundraising scam from what I see (from his website): My concentration is changing to fundraising at this point, but I have no experience in raising money for an operation of this caliber and would love to hear from anyone willing to help...(email address here) Project ORN where the predators, become the hunted... ORN - Offender Registration Network" ETA: OH, and I forgot: "Project ORN DONATION $100 Quantity:" Project ORN - Umm... Donation showing on your credit card from "P.O.R.N."?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 648] Author : Katachresis Date : 17th April 2006 09:01 AM I tried to get in to the site today, but I got this in my email this morning: Dear K*****, Unfortunately your registration at Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community did not meet our membership requirements. Therefore your registration was deleted. Sorry, Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community team I didn't even have time to post anything. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 649] Author : meg Date : 17th April 2006 09:04 AM Yup. That's the same message I got, Katachresis. Well, at least now I won't take it so personally. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 650] Author : Kelly Date : 17th April 2006 10:13 AM Yes, Kelly. It's another UK skeptically orientated site/forum. The project is going to be relaunched shortly with a new name and new look which is why it's currently only readable by members. It should be open in the not too distant future. John THanks, John. I just wanted to check that it was an ok site as they were linking to me. Something strange. Click on 'main page' (top right hand corner) and it goes to http://www.randi.org/ . No joke. When you click on what main page, please? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 651] Author : Kelly Date : 17th April 2006 10:15 AM Yup. That's the same message I got, Katachresis. Well, at least now I won't take it so personally. Meg Did you both use web based email addy's. That's probably why. I agree that Project ORN, shortened to PORN is odd. Why someone would choose a name that could be abbreviated as such is beyond me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 652] Author : CptColumbo Date : 17th April 2006 10:34 AM I remember during the Jacob Wetterling case, here in MN, that one of the local stations asked a psychic to do a reading. She predicted he would be near water. We're "the Land of 10,000 Lakes," that ain't to big a prediction. I think it was WCCO, but I'm sure the Wetterling Foundation can give you more info. I haven't paid much attention to the case since then, but I think he was never found. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 653] Author : Kelly Date : 17th April 2006 10:40 AM I remember during the Jacob Wetterling case, here in MN, that one of the local stations asked a psychic to do a reading. She predicted he would be near water. We're "the Land of 10,000 Lakes," that ain't to big a prediction. I think it was WCCO, but I'm sure the Wetterling Foundation can give you more info. I haven't paid much attention to the case since then, but I think he was never found. He was never found. Last year, there was a young man who was thought to be Jacob. They wanted him to do a DNA test, but he never would. I believe in the end they do not think was him, but I am not sure. I know Patty through a volunteer org called TEAM Hope. I should ask her. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 654] Author : meg Date : 17th April 2006 02:42 PM Hi Kelly, No, I used a real email address. Went through the registration, they verified my email, and clicked the link, etc. I was just waiting for the final approval by an administration type for my registration to be complete when I received an email like Katachresis. I did not, however, fill out anything in the "who referred you" line. Perhaps they only take people who are friends of present members or something? Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 655] Author : RSLancastr Date : 17th April 2006 03:36 PM Kelly, I'm not sure what to say about today's blog entry (by RebKah Howard). It's almost pro-psychic, just saying that some psychics aren't reputable, and that some are "gifted but vague." On the whole, I think the article would leave someone with the impression that psychic detectives are still helpful, they just didn't help in this one case. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 656] Author : rjh01 Date : 17th April 2006 05:48 PM When you click on what main page, please? I am talking about the 'bad psychics' website. It has 'welcome to badpsychics' in the top middle of the page. On the left of that are the words 'main page'. Click on that and it goes to the JREF page. I also found where the reference to your site is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 657] Author : Kelly Date : 17th April 2006 07:10 PM Kelly, I'm not sure what to say about today's blog entry (by RebKah Howard). It's almost pro-psychic, just saying that some psychics aren't reputable, and that some are "gifted but vague." On the whole, I think the article would leave someone with the impression that psychic detectives are still helpful, they just didn't help in this one case. I was never quite comfortable with her entry. I left it as is because I provided supporting links that are certainly not pro-Renier. Even as I posted it, I still didn't feel right about it. I went back and edited it. Rebkah will understand as I made it clear that I didn't want it to be encouraging. In the light of day, and under the microscope of others, it was too soft. I think it now still doesn't take away from her softer approach, but leaves out the encouraging statements. Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 658] Author : Kelly Date : 17th April 2006 07:15 PM Hi Kelly, No, I used a real email address. Went through the registration, they verified my email, and clicked the link, etc. I was just waiting for the final approval by an administration type for my registration to be complete when I received an email like Katachresis. I did not, however, fill out anything in the "who referred you" line. Perhaps they only take people who are friends of present members or something? Meg I'm not sure. That doesn't seem fair to exclude someone because they were not referred. In the scheme of things, I suppose Rocky is no big hitter. He just annoys the heck out of me, and contributes to the level of woo over there. Personally, I'd rather do a proverbial smack on the noggin to that creep in Canada who says he can pinpoint a missing child anywhere in 2 seconds flat. Thanks for trying, both of you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 659] Author : Gr8wight Date : 17th April 2006 08:15 PM I'm not sure. That doesn't seem fair to exclude someone because they were not referred. In the scheme of things, I suppose Rocky is no big hitter. He just annoys the heck out of me, and contributes to the level of woo over there. Personally, I'd rather do a proverbial smack on the noggin to that creep in Canada who says he can pinpoint a missing child anywhere in 2 seconds flat. Thanks for trying, both of you. They may have checked the referral stats of their website to see where the originating link that led you to them came from. Maybe someone should try signing up without using the link from here to click through to them. Copy and paste the link into the address bar of a newly opened browser window and see what happens. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 660] Author : Kiless Date : 17th April 2006 08:31 PM They may have checked the referral stats of their website to see where the originating link that led you to them came from. Maybe someone should try signing up without using the link from here to click through to them. Copy and paste the link into the address bar of a newly opened browser window and see what happens. Or perhaps use http://www.the-cloak.com/anonymous-surfing-home.html ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 661] Author : Kiless Date : 17th April 2006 08:35 PM Ah, just occured, perhaps they're keeping an eye on this thread due to the referral stats? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 662] Author : Kiless Date : 17th April 2006 08:37 PM Would contacting Tricia Griffith and being up-front about the concerns regarding psychic predators be useful? I noted an email address on the top of the http://www.websleuths.com/ site. If you say that you're not there to troll or anything nasty, it may help. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 663] Author : Kiless Date : 17th April 2006 08:45 PM Yes, Kelly. It's another UK skeptically orientated site/forum. The project is going to be relaunched shortly with a new name and new look which is why it's currently only readable by members. It should be open in the not too distant future. John Might want to get the JREF forum to add them to the Links. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 664] Author : Kelly Date : 17th April 2006 08:56 PM I had never heard of a forum being able to tell where a prospective member clicked in from, but I believe it! I know Tricia personally, and she knows I am doing the series and supports it. However, my preference was to be anonymous in a sense when trying to do a little "woo prevention" over there. It might be claimed I am biased, hence the new members who try to win over believers with logic. Thanks for the info......I learned something new today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 665] Author : Kiless Date : 17th April 2006 09:00 PM I know Tricia personally, and she knows I am doing the series and supports it. However, my preference was to be anonymous in a sense when trying to do a little "woo prevention" over there. It might be claimed I am biased, hence the new members who try to win over believers with logic. Thanks for the info......I learned something new today. Yeah, as you said, you know her personally. But it might help if people here contacted her, said that they were (and are!) genuinely interested in contributing to the forum (just as they are genuinely interested in contributing to helping with missing people in general) and will behave themselves instead of gung-ho 'debunking' attitudes. In fact, it'd be interesting to see what tactics are used and perhaps use that as the basis of essays and responses here. Sort of a devil's advocate thing. And if people are going to end up looking over here, it's best not to look like maroons who are just going to charge in and create flamewars. And hello to anyone from that forum who are wondering where people are coming from! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 666] Author : Kelly Date : 17th April 2006 10:23 PM Yeah, as you said, you know her personally. But it might help if people here contacted her, said that they were (and are!) genuinely interested in contributing to the forum (just as they are genuinely interested in contributing to helping with missing people in general) and will behave themselves instead of gung-ho 'debunking' attitudes. In fact, it'd be interesting to see what tactics are used and perhaps use that as the basis of essays and responses here. Sort of a devil's advocate thing. And if people are going to end up looking over here, it's best not to look like maroons who are just going to charge in and create flamewars. And hello to anyone from that forum who are wondering where people are coming from! :) No, we certainly wouldn't want to look like angry cynics. The "woo" people took over my psychic thread over there with Rocky remaining unchallenged. I wish I had the time to take on those challenges personally, but I don't. This is an aside to my not wanting to alienate the general population, because they are a very helpful group when it comes to missing person's cases. At this point, it's up to the volunteers if they wish to pursue it. I hope the WS admins will have an open mind to this. It is highly unlikely that Tricia approves the memberships herself. Hi Websleuths admins! :sewelcome: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 667] Author : RSLancastr Date : 18th April 2006 08:25 AM I think it now still doesn't take away from her softer approach, but leaves out the encouraging statements.Better. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 668] Author : Gr8wight Date : 18th April 2006 01:56 PM I had never heard of a forum being able to tell where a prospective member clicked in from, but I believe it! I know Tricia personally, and she knows I am doing the series and supports it. However, my preference was to be anonymous in a sense when trying to do a little "woo prevention" over there. It might be claimed I am biased, hence the new members who try to win over believers with logic. Thanks for the info......I learned something new today. What do you mean? You told me you could see when someone came to your blog from mine. No different. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 669] Author : Luke T. Date : 18th April 2006 03:00 PM No, we certainly wouldn't want to look like angry cynics. I'm an angry cynic when it comes to psychic predators. They better not sign me up for their forum. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 670] Author : Kelly Date : 18th April 2006 03:09 PM A forum would not work quite the same way as the blog. I assume they would have a more complex hits tracker. On the blog, I can only see history going back so many pages. I can't see, for example, visitor info from 3 days ago. The registration process on a forum isn't on par with leaving a blog comment. I have no idea where the anonymous commenters come from because my hits counter is fairly basic and doesn't take a leap from the blog page to the comments page, which is a separate page anyway with no hits counter. I don't know alot about forums and the way the hits might track a person as they visit the site and then register, but I suppose had I thought about it long enough and hard enough, it might have occurred to me that they would know where the person entered their site. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 671] Author : Luke T. Date : 18th April 2006 03:12 PM A forum would not work quite the same way as the blog. I assume they would have a more complex hits tracker. On the blog, I can only see history going back so many pages. I can't see, for example, visitor info from 3 days ago. The registration process on a forum isn't on par with leaving a blog comment. I have no idea where the anonymous commenters come from because my hits counter is fairly basic and doesn't take a leap from the blog page to the comments page, which is a separate page anyway with no hits counter. I don't know alot about forums and the way the hits might track a person as they visit the site and then register, but I suppose had I thought about it long enough and hard enough, it might have occurred to me that they would know where the person entered their site. Years ago on here, someone linked to a web page of a guy who claimed he could make clouds disappear with his mind. Neal Slade. Well, Neal was able to detect that a link to his page was here and he dropped in. Much hilarity ensued. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 672] Author : Luke T. Date : 18th April 2006 03:14 PM And just out of habit, I always go from one web site to another via Google precisely for this reason. I made Google my home page and hit the Home button every time I leap in or out of a web site. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 673] Author : RSLancastr Date : 18th April 2006 05:17 PM The stats kept by my StopKaz site tells me all of the web pages people have linked to my site from, but it does not tell me who linked from where. But I can imagine such a thing being a feature of forum software. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 674] Author : Gr8wight Date : 18th April 2006 07:15 PM A good counter can record the IP address of a visitor, which pages on your website that visitor viewed, and the web page that visitor arrived from. All fairly standard counter technology. No matter. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 675] Author : Kelly Date : 18th April 2006 08:14 PM In other news, I was contacted by a reporter for People Magazine and had a preliminary interview, which has been submitted to go up the food chain there. Now, before you get all excited, the topic of discussion is the emotional effects of having a missing loved one. There is no guarantee at this point in the process of it ever making the magazine. It's in the beginning processes. However, you will be pleased to know that I took the opportunity to educate her on our issues here, and I strongly suggested that she consider it for a future story. (I gave her the link to the series.) I then remembered that I have a direct contact with a reporter from USA Today from the time we were in there last July. I sent him the link and basic info as well. When I get done with the series, I will send it to other media who take an interest in missing persons, such as Nancy Grace and Greta. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 676] Author : Katachresis Date : 18th April 2006 09:53 PM In other news, I was contacted by a reporter .... Kelly, you never cease to amaze me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 677] Author : Kelly Date : 20th April 2006 08:23 AM Kelly, you never cease to amaze me. Thanks Kat. I'm back after a busy couple of busy days with our board meeting going on and some unexpected technical issues. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 678] Author : ysabella Date : 20th April 2006 07:10 PM This has nothing to do with psychics, but I thought I'd pass on the good news that my home state is putting photos of missing kids on the sides of trucks (http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS06/60420085) now. Alright, Washington! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 679] Author : Kelly Date : 20th April 2006 09:40 PM This has nothing to do with psychics, but I thought I'd pass on the good news that my home state is putting photos of missing kids on the sides of trucks (http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS06/60420085) now. Alright, Washington! Hello ysabella, Thanks for the story link. I saw this earlier this evening and was very pleased, especially for Shania's mother. She was our 1st parental abduction case. I wish I could say she was back home. It's been too long. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 680] Author : rjh01 Date : 21st April 2006 11:10 PM Volunteer needed on this site (PSYCHICS WHO THINK THEY CAN HELP OR OFFER INFORMATION (http://flfiesta.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6)) http://flfiesta.com/forum/index.php (high level forum). The sub forum was almost dead for a time then psychicladyshar (http://flfiesta.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=69) has started posting lots of stuff there. She claims to be a psychic. I would love to challenge her, but I think I am a bit out of my depth with this lady. Does anyone want to got there and challenge her? So far no-one has. Otherwise any tips on how I can do it? I already have put a few posts there showing how stupid the psychics are, but those were easy to do. I am expecting a hostile reception (obvious statement). The forum exists to help find a missing lady. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 681] Author : meg Date : 22nd April 2006 06:52 AM Ok. I volunteer. I posted over there and pointed them toward Kelly's blog. Hopefully some of them will read it. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 682] Author : meg Date : 22nd April 2006 04:31 PM Well, I think I'm about to get banned. If someone else wants to try, good luck to ya. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 683] Author : rjh01 Date : 22nd April 2006 04:42 PM We have been banned. All I did was ask for proof. I did receive an e-mail quote in full You and thinker drove Shar away! You'all don't know what your doing!! How do you know he/she wasn't the perpetrator... ! I have lost at least 4 people to the angry people at centralfloridamissing.com forum!!! because they don't believe people should speak freely!!! I was never angry. I was always polite. I think the e-mail says more about the sender than it says about me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 684] Author : rjh01 Date : 22nd April 2006 04:42 PM Double post deleted. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 685] Author : Roadtoad Date : 22nd April 2006 04:49 PM Oh, the horror! You demanded PROOF!?!?! What's the matter with you! Don't you know that asking for proof will screw up the juju, and make it impossible for a psychic to track the missing person? That's why they can't find Jimmy Hoffa! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 686] Author : meg Date : 22nd April 2006 05:21 PM Yeah. I got some pm's from her, too, saying the whole purpose of that forum area is to try to catch the perp pretending to be a psychic. Unbelievable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 687] Author : delphi_ote Date : 22nd April 2006 05:30 PM Central Florida Missing?! Is there something going down in my area I could do something about? If so, let me know! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 688] Author : Kelly Date : 22nd April 2006 06:41 PM Jennifer Keese is missing from Orlando. Thanks all for trying there. It was a valiant effort. The only thing I can say in their defense is that I have heard that sometimes the perp comes around and pretends to be a psychic. I wish I could remember where I read this, but I am sure it was a verified story. However, overall, they're still giving psychics validity. I sure hope it is true that the family is not opening the doors to them. I'm still partly AWOL at this time. We had one of our biggest public events of the year today, and tomorrow I have to go out of town for a family thing I can't get out of. On top of that, we're still facing some critical loss of data that has me away from here and the blog. When it rains, it pours. :( Thanks again for the fine attempts! Did Angus McPresley get banned, too? I saw he posted on another thread over there. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 689] Author : rjh01 Date : 22nd April 2006 06:42 PM Click on the links I provided above and take a look. I no longer can as I have been banned. Is there any way around this? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 690] Author : meg Date : 22nd April 2006 06:46 PM Strangely, I'm not banned yet. I keep posting, though ;) I don't think Angus was banned, either. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 691] Author : rjh01 Date : 22nd April 2006 06:53 PM Was not a wasted effort. We (ie Meg, Me, who else?) are credited with scarring off at least 4 people. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 692] Author : meg Date : 22nd April 2006 07:00 PM Yeah. :) And at least a few people were reintroduced to Kelly's blog. It might take a while to read all that and let it sink in. I think there's a little headway already going on with the admin, she wrote "They and other psychics obviously believe they have powers (maybe they are deceiving themselves or they are just outright liars), just like other religions (which there are thousands of; cults even). " Time will tell. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 693] Author : delphi_ote Date : 22nd April 2006 07:03 PM Jennifer Keese is missing from Orlando. Right. But are there any psychics in need of roughing up down here? :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 694] Author : meg Date : 22nd April 2006 07:07 PM hehee :) I think the ones in question today are in PA. They were hinting about how much better they could do if they were in FL, though. Maybe somebody will buy em a free trip down. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 695] Author : meg Date : 22nd April 2006 09:13 PM Aw nuts. Looks like I got banned after all. Ah well. I tried. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 696] Author : delphi_ote Date : 22nd April 2006 09:37 PM hehee :) I think the ones in question today are in PA. They were hinting about how much better they could do if they were in FL, though. Maybe somebody will buy em a free trip down. Hmm... they can stay in PA. We've got enough lunatics in Orlando. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 697] Author : staragent Date : 25th April 2006 12:10 PM Thread Title : Flfiesta forum Hi all!, I was so excited to find this forum and after reading what you have been through, I want you to know that I USED to assist the admin of that other forum as a moderator UNTIL she started posting pictures of innocent people and publicizing a juvenile's arrest information and slandering Orlando and everyone in it. I finally severed ties and on the wishes of ChildWatch, we opened up centralfloridamissing.com. We actually do NOT allow psychics on that site or better yet, to post. Anyone is welcome, it is an open uncensored forum and right now our focus is on Jennifer Kesse but we also have a team of experts doing whatever possible to shut flfiesta down. The Kesse family has repeatedly begged her to remove their daughter's name off of her forum and she refuses to do so, claiming freedom of speech. So in the meantime (the majority of our users are banned from that forum including myself) she surfs the internet posting pictures of the "doctored" POI photo which is misleading and is actually hindering the investigation. We have tried to reason with her, to no avail. I am not familiar with internet harassment, but am learning. She is degrading the Jennifer Kesse name! Our forum truly wants to help find Jennifer and we are very dedicated to that respect. We are linked with courttv, huffscrimeblog, crimelibrary, and angelsthatcare. We have only been up a good solid month or so but response has been overwhelming for an open, uncensored forum. You do NOT have to register for our forum. I am writing though to see if we could also be linked up as I have been reviewing your site for the last several days and I am so proud of the work you have been accomplishing! We are in the process of writing as mall FREE Ebook regarding SafeCalls and how to carry them out and so forth. It should be up on our homepage by the end of the week. IF anyone on here has any additional safety tips, PLEASE let us know and we will add them. We are also putting together a FREE self-defense class in the near future! We work very hard to try and prevent anyone else from going missing.... Thank you so much for allowing me to post, if anyone has any quesitons about the flfiesta site, I will be more than happy to answer them as well as forward a copy of the owner's criminal record to you! Regards, Ginger centralfloridamissing.com/fo...highlight=#3626 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 698] Author : Luke T. Date : 25th April 2006 12:24 PM she started posting pictures of innocent people Scum. Utter scum. I so hate these people! I finally severed ties and on the wishes of ChildWatch, we opened up centralfloridamissing.com. We actually do NOT allow psychics on that site or better yet, to post. Anyone is welcome, it is an open uncensored forum and right now our focus is on Jennifer Kesse but we also have a team of experts doing whatever possible to shut flfiesta down. The Kesse family has repeatedly begged her to remove their daughter's name off of her forum and she refuses to do so, claiming freedom of speech. So in the meantime (the majority of our users are banned from that forum including myself) she surfs the internet posting pictures of the "doctored" POI photo which is misleading and is actually hindering the investigation. We have tried to reason with her, to no avail. I am not familiar with internet harassment, but am learning. She is degrading the Jennifer Kesse name! Our forum truly wants to help find Jennifer and we are very dedicated to that respect. We are linked with courttv, huffscrimeblog, crimelibrary, and angelsthatcare. We have only been up a good solid month or so but response has been overwhelming for an open, uncensored forum. You do NOT have to register for our forum. I don't know who you are, but I like you already. I am writing though to see if we could also be linked up as I have been reviewing your site for the last several days and I am so proud of the work you have been accomplishing! We are in the process of writing as mall FREE Ebook regarding SafeCalls and how to carry them out and so forth. It should be up on our homepage by the end of the week. What is a SafeCall? Thank you so much for allowing me to post, if anyone has any quesitons about the flfiesta site, I will be more than happy to answer them as well as forward a copy of the owner's criminal record to you! Hmmm. Very tempting. I will send you a PM here with my email address. I would like a copy of that record. centralfloridamissing.com/fo...highlight=#3626 A simply amazing site. An impressive demonstration of the power of love. Bless you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 699] Author : delphi_ote Date : 25th April 2006 12:40 PM Hi all!, I was so excited to find this forum and after reading what you have been through, I want you to know that I USED to assist the admin of that other forum as a moderator UNTIL she started posting pictures of innocent people and publicizing a juvenile's arrest information and slandering Orlando and everyone in it. I finally severed ties and on the wishes of ChildWatch, we opened up centralfloridamissing.com. We actually do NOT allow psychics on that site or better yet, to post. Anyone is welcome, it is an open uncensored forum and right now our focus is on Jennifer Kesse but we also have a team of experts doing whatever possible to shut flfiesta down. The Kesse family has repeatedly begged her to remove their daughter's name off of her forum and she refuses to do so, claiming freedom of speech. So in the meantime (the majority of our users are banned from that forum including myself) she surfs the internet posting pictures of the "doctored" POI photo which is misleading and is actually hindering the investigation. We have tried to reason with her, to no avail. I am not familiar with internet harassment, but am learning. She is degrading the Jennifer Kesse name! Our forum truly wants to help find Jennifer and we are very dedicated to that respect. We are linked with courttv, huffscrimeblog, crimelibrary, and angelsthatcare. We have only been up a good solid month or so but response has been overwhelming for an open, uncensored forum. You do NOT have to register for our forum. I am writing though to see if we could also be linked up as I have been reviewing your site for the last several days and I am so proud of the work you have been accomplishing! We are in the process of writing as mall FREE Ebook regarding SafeCalls and how to carry them out and so forth. It should be up on our homepage by the end of the week. IF anyone on here has any additional safety tips, PLEASE let us know and we will add them. We are also putting together a FREE self-defense class in the near future! We work very hard to try and prevent anyone else from going missing.... Thank you so much for allowing me to post, if anyone has any quesitons about the flfiesta site, I will be more than happy to answer them as well as forward a copy of the owner's criminal record to you! Regards, Ginger centralfloridamissing.com/fo...highlight=#3626 If I can do anything to help, I'm in Orlando. If you need a volunteer of some kind, let me know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 700] Author : staragent Date : 25th April 2006 01:04 PM Thread Title : Speechless Thank you both for your responses and so quickly I might add! I am literally without words which is rare as my nickname is "The Postinator"...long story short, I follow the owner of that flfiesta site to all the different blog sites she is a member of and I go behind and ATTEMPT to clean up any mess she is making, like the doctored photo, the arabic writing on a flyer downtown, and her latest scheme are the psychics...no comment there, I am WAY to logical of a person to entertain those thoughts. I am actually an investigator for ChildWatch and we have already apprehended two sexual predators off of our website and we are working on a 3rd, hence the reason for an open, uncensored forum. Is it a lot of work? YES, but we are not run by just one admin, we have a very large trusted group and let me tell you, we have all become family! I love this site as I don't see any bickering or jabs or disagreements, I mean sure you might ask for facts supporting a post but you don't degrade anyone, well that is how we are as well.... I did take the link from here with the letter from "kelly" I believe it is Jason's mother, where she was talking of psychics not helping and I posted it on our site, HOPING that when the flfiesta owner TROLLS on our forum and steals our information, she will steal that and maybe read it, perhaps her conscious will get to her after that! We do need help, any help to find Jennifer Kesse, we need to bring closure to her family and bring her home.... don't know if I am allowed to put my email on here, so if I am not, I apologize in advance and you may remove it, but if anyone wants to email me, please do so: admin@centralfloridamissing. Thank you for all that you do!! Ginger -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 701] Author : staragent Date : 25th April 2006 01:09 PM Thread Title : SafeCalls This is only a preliminary list, we are waiting for L.E. to put their two cents in as well!! Sorry I forgot it in my last reply! SafeCalls 1.Establish a Contact Person, the more the better. This could be a friend, a neighbor, a relative, anyone that you are able to call 24/7 if need be. 2. The contact person needs to have someone in your family they can get in touch with, names and phone numbers in case of an emergency. 3. Always call your contact person when you will be going somewhere late at nite, regardless of where it is. 4. When you break routine, call your contact person. IE: You wake up in the middle of the nite coughing your guts out and have no cough medicine, so you take a ride to the store to get some....CALL SOMEONE to let them know. 5. When driving in an unfamiliar area, be on the phone with your contact person. 6. If you typically go the same route to work, school, or out somewhere, and you must change your route due to an accident, road blockage, construction, detour, etc., Call your CONTACT person so if something happens to you, we know your last whereabouts! 7. Call your CONTACT person even if you have a "weird" feeling, its better to be safe than sorry... I will be adding more to this and please, anyone else feel free to chime in, I am going to print all these up nicely with publisher in a flyer or something so that it can be given out! Thanks, Ginger -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 702] Author : Luke T. Date : 25th April 2006 01:44 PM I am actually an investigator for ChildWatch and we have already apprehended two sexual predators off of our website and we are working on a 3rd Now THAT is impressive! Wow! I'm the father of four children. I'd give you a medal if I could. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 703] Author : Luke T. Date : 25th April 2006 01:47 PM In other news, I was contacted by a reporter for People Magazine and had a preliminary interview, which has been submitted to go up the food chain there. Now, before you get all excited, the topic of discussion is the emotional effects of having a missing loved one. There is no guarantee at this point in the process of it ever making the magazine. It's in the beginning processes. If it happens, it will be the first time in my life I have bought a People magazine. Howver, you will be pleased to know that I took the opportunity to educate her on our issues here, and I strongly suggested that she consider it for a future story. (I gave her the link to the series.) Heh. People magazine slamming psychics. That would be almost in the "miracle" category considering their venue and that psychics are popular in Hollywood. I hope it happens. I hope it happens. I hope it happens. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 704] Author : Kelly Date : 25th April 2006 02:50 PM Hello Ginger, Thank you for posting the link to this thread on your forum. It might be better, however, to post the link to the beginning of the series on psychics instead. This thread is for discussion pertaining to that series and obtaining help in dealing with the issue. It is not a discussion thread about missing persons as a cause or safety issues. At this time, we do not post links on our site to forums. We post resources for nonprofits, with one exception, which is The Charley Project. The nonprofits we will post as a resource are ones with which we have established a strong relationship, wherein we fully trust in the services they may provide to families we refer. In Florida, we refer to KlaasKids. The Search Center is based there. Please do not ask me to post a link to Child Watch. I understand they are under investigation. Whether they are guilty of any wrongdoing whatsoever is not for us to decide nor discuss. http://www.wftv.com/news/6791362/detail.html Again, we only refer to trusted organizations. We can however, agree that psychics have no place in a fruitful missing person's search. I'm glad your forum does not invite them or validate them. Best wishes to you in your work for the missing. We do have Jennifer posted on our main website and our forum. May she return home safe, and very soon. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 705] Author : Kelly Date : 25th April 2006 02:57 PM If it happens, it will be the first time in my life I have bought a People magazine. Heh. People magazine slamming psychics. That would be almost in the "miracle" category considering their venue and that psychics are popular in Hollywood. I hope it happens. I hope it happens. I hope it happens. I do too, but I have my doubts. After we had the dicussion, and I sent her the link, we conversed a few more times via email. I asked twice what she thought about the series and our conversation, and she did not respond to that at all. Hollywood=woo :( I will be very happy, of course, if some of our families can be featured in there. The ones she forwarded to the editor are families who have never had much press, and one NEVER. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 706] Author : staragent Date : 25th April 2006 02:57 PM Thread Title : Thread Kelly, I do apologize for posting in the wrong places and whatnot. I never meant to cause any problems. ChildWatch is NOT under investigation and as you know there are always two sides to every story and it is a discussion does not belong on here or our forum either. I am deeply sorry for stepping on anyone's toes and thank you for your valuable information. Feel free to edit my posts to make them appropriate according to forum rules and I thank you for the explanation. Sincerely, Ginger -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 707] Author : Kelly Date : 25th April 2006 03:14 PM Kelly, I do apologize for posting in the wrong places and whatnot. I never meant to cause any problems. ChildWatch is NOT under investigation and as you know there are always two sides to every story and it is a discussion does not belong on here or our forum either. I am deeply sorry for stepping on anyone's toes and thank you for your valuable information. Feel free to edit my posts to make them appropriate according to forum rules and I thank you for the explanation. Sincerely, Ginger Perhaps better wording would have been "under scrutiny". I apologize for that. The two sides to every story could also apply to the other forum you mentioned. I am not enamored of them for hosting psychics, but I know nothing of their other activities, nor do I have time to research them. I do know that there were public disputes about Jennifer's sites. I feel very bad for the family, as they do not need that at this difficult time. The focus should be on Jennifer, period. Like most threads on forums, there are occasion "derailments". That's expected. I don't feel you stepped on anyone's toes. You may want to consider posting your safety information on the Community Forum. There have been some productive self-defense threads on there. Even when the series is done, my hope is that families of the missing and related orgs will seek help here if they want to gain knowledge about the truth as it pertains to psychics and missing people. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 708] Author : delphi_ote Date : 25th April 2006 05:14 PM Kelly, I do apologize for posting in the wrong places and whatnot. I never meant to cause any problems. ChildWatch is NOT under investigation and as you know there are always two sides to every story and it is a discussion does not belong on here or our forum either. I am deeply sorry for stepping on anyone's toes and thank you for your valuable information. Feel free to edit my posts to make them appropriate according to forum rules and I thank you for the explanation. Sincerely, Ginger To clairfy a bit more, since you seem confused. You're posting on the James Randi Education Foundation (http://www.randi.org/) forum in a thread started by KellyJ about psychics and missing people. KellyJ isn't a moderator here. She's not speaking officially on behalf of the JREF or even the JREF forum. She's just a member of the rabble like the rest of us (she just happens to be 90% cooler than the rest of us.) :D KellyJ's blog is a different thing, and it's over here (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/30606-pmp-introduction-to-psychics-and.html). She told us all about it here in this thread, and many posters here have contributed. It's an amazing bit of work. I hope that clarifies things a bit more. Don't worry about an initial derail. It helps us to learn who you are and what you're passionate about. Threads have seen far worse derails on this forum. Just try to stay on topic in this thread. Some amazing things have been accomplished so far by the posters here. It's true. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 709] Author : Roadtoad Date : 25th April 2006 06:55 PM Staragent, with your permission, I'd like to link to your site on my blog. I've done it for Kelly, and hopefully, it'll help you. (Hey, if both of the folks who read my blog can help, great.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 710] Author : meg Date : 26th April 2006 06:15 AM Well, I'll be darned. I've been invited back to the flfiesta forum. She made my topic its own forum: http://flfiesta.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=44 It's not in the "Psychics" area, though. It's off the main page. What do you folks think? Should I bother returning? Is it worth the effort? Or is this a last ditch effort from the forum owner to get someone besides "psychics" to talk about stuff? Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 711] Author : Luke T. Date : 26th April 2006 08:56 AM Well, I'll be darned. I've been invited back to the flfiesta forum. She made my topic its own forum: http://flfiesta.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=44 It's not in the "Psychics" area, though. It's off the main page. What do you folks think? Should I bother returning? Is it worth the effort? Or is this a last ditch effort from the forum owner to get someone besides "psychics" to talk about stuff? Meg Keep going. I read the topic and just might join in. Okay, folks, here's a quote from a supposed psychic on that site. Remember what I said about a bag of hammers? I'm speaking on behalf of all the real psychic, your post is offensive. WE ARE REAL psychic. I know you may have come across others who prayed on people. However, we have know need to and I'm a mother a wife and college student in CRIMINAL JUSTICE, an honor student to. :D More: thinker I have helped people find loss items, i have described people to other people and their jobs and jobs they will have and it has happened. I have gave them readings on their health problems. I don't got to proove it to you. Oy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 712] Author : Luke T. Date : 26th April 2006 09:00 AM You are aware their are parts of the brain the average human don't use, those parts also have senses, did you know that? Albert Eistens part of his brain was larger than usual. Their has been psychic used in a government activities. I have watched true stories on television. Aggghhhh! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 713] Author : Luke T. Date : 26th April 2006 09:02 AM I have watched true stories on television. Heh. Heh-heh-heh. Ha! Ha! Ha! MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAGGGgggghhhhhh... Ah-hee. Whoooo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 714] Author : Luke T. Date : 26th April 2006 09:27 AM Okay, meg. I've joined the fray over there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 715] Author : Kelly Date : 26th April 2006 11:17 AM Hello all, Luke and Meg, you're doing a great job over there! It's too bad though she removed it from within the psychic forum. I hope it's still getting alot of reads, especially from the predators. I wonder if she saw what Ginger said about her here and if that prompted the invite back. :confused: Luke, I'm glad you said it first about the grammar issues. I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, I think education isn't what it used to be. I recently met a college senior who was majoring in journalism/public relations, and I kid you not...she did not know the difference between quit, quiet, and quite. :( In a general note to all readers here, I want to tell you that all missing person's organizations are not created equal. This is not saying anything about the one Ginger affiliates her forum with, but is something you should know if you're going to reach out and help. If anyone has an interest in volunteering to help with a local organization, PM me, and I will let you know of a reputable org in your area if there is one. Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 716] Author : meg Date : 26th April 2006 12:38 PM Hi Kelly, Luke, I know what you mean. I googled her email addy posted on another thread, and almost lost my coffee through my nose. She claims to have a degree in writing, and has self-published her works of poetry. She's a piece of work, alright. I wonder if her spirit guides can spell any better than she does? Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 717] Author : meg Date : 26th April 2006 01:44 PM When psychics call in leads on a missing person case the leads should absolutely be followed, just like any other lead. There have been instances in ongoing cases where someone wanted to confess their crime against a victim, and the criminal called the police claiming to have psychic information about the crime. Hi Kelly, I grabbed that quote from Colleen Nick's post on voice4themissing. I am wondering if there is a way to find out more about that statement. Particularly, I would like to know more about when that happened and how. How many times, etc. Do you know any more about that? Or could you point me toward who I might talk with to find out more? I guess I keep coming around to the question, does that justify somehow pretending psychics are useful, on the off chance that a killer/criminal will call in a tip pretending to be a psychic? If the killer really wanted to call in a tip, could he not just pretend to be someone else? Or call it in anonymously? Thanks Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 718] Author : Kelly Date : 26th April 2006 02:13 PM Hi Kelly, I grabbed that quote from Colleen Nick's post on voice4themissing. I am wondering if there is a way to find out more about that statement. Particularly, I would like to know more about when that happened and how. How many times, etc. Do you know any more about that? Or could you point me toward who I might talk with to find out more? I guess I keep coming around to the question, does that justify somehow pretending psychics are useful, on the off chance that a killer/criminal will call in a tip pretending to be a psychic? If the killer really wanted to call in a tip, could he not just pretend to be someone else? Or call it in anonymously? Thanks Meg Hi Meg, I will email Colleen this evening and ask if she knows more about this. The only reason I can think in this case, to pretend to be a psychic, is because of the families who let them into their lives. I have heard that some murderers take strange pleasure in being close to their victims. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 719] Author : Kelly Date : 26th April 2006 02:18 PM Hi Kelly, Luke, I know what you mean. I googled her email addy posted on another thread, and almost lost my coffee through my nose. She claims to have a degree in writing, and has self-published her works of poetry. She's a piece of work, alright. I wonder if her spirit guides can spell any better than she does? Meg Would you be allowed to ask if she can provide proof of this degree? If she cannot supply it, or refuses to do so, it could cause doubt in some fence sitters. Isn't there a saying that goes something like: "Dishonest in one thing, dishonest in all." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 720] Author : meg Date : 26th April 2006 02:24 PM Would you be allowed to ask if she can provide proof of this degree? If she cannot supply it, or refuses to do so, it could cause doubt in some fence sitters. Isn't there a saying that goes something like: "Dishonest in one thing, dishonest in all." Well, she hasn't stated it on this forum. She just says it on her other websites, which I found on my own, not by her pointing me there... I dunno. Considering many of the people over there don't spell much better, I'm wondering if they'd even understand what we were talking about. You know? Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 721] Author : staragent Date : 26th April 2006 02:25 PM [QUOTE=KellyJ;1601579]Hello all, Luke and Meg, you're doing a great job over there! It's too bad though she removed it from within the psychic forum. I hope it's still getting alot of reads, especially from the predators. I wonder if she saw what Ginger said about her here and if that prompted the invite back. :confused: Kelly, Yes, she did see what I posted on here as she followed up with a very nasty and threatening email to me as well. I just put it in the folder that contains the other 388 emails from her. She has also threatened assault against me via email and instant message. I am a single divorced mother of a teenager, I say "Bring it on". Perhaps her visions are warning her not to mess with me because her threats have been just that, and I am still waiting for a knock on my door from her, I have a special treat in store! What she has actually done over on her forum, and I am so sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but she has made that category and invited some of you back in, but the category is closed off to only certain people. Basically, the lovely psychic Shar who does not use spell check EVER, and a couple others, are not able to see what Thinker or Luke T are saying about them at this time. Just further proof of how manipulative she is. What can be done? I simply ignore her. It doesn't work though. Thanks for your efforts! Ginger :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 722] Author : meg Date : 26th April 2006 02:31 PM What she has actually done over on her forum, and I am so sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but she has made that category and invited some of you back in, but the category is closed off to only certain people. Basically, the lovely psychic Shar who does not use spell check EVER, and a couple others, are not able to see what Thinker or Luke T are saying about them at this time. Ahhhhhhhhhh. I see. It didn't occur to me that you could do that. I guess as long as its visible to the rest of the posters, though, it might do some good. Thanks for the heads up. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 723] Author : Luke T. Date : 26th April 2006 02:41 PM What she has actually done over on her forum, and I am so sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but she has made that category and invited some of you back in, but the category is closed off to only certain people. Basically, the lovely psychic Shar who does not use spell check EVER, and a couple others, are not able to see what Thinker or Luke T are saying about them at this time. How do you know this? And if it is true, it is complete and utter BS that psychicladyshar is not allowed to defend herself to me. Sorry to derail your topic further, Kelly. But this is a psychic who claims to have visions about a missing person. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 724] Author : RSLancastr Date : 26th April 2006 02:59 PM Isn't there a saying that goes something like: "Dishonest in one thing, dishonest in all."Well, if there is, it's inaccurate! I know of a lot of people who lie about their age, for example, but are reasonably honest otherwise. It should be (If someone is) "Dishonest in one thing, verify the rest!" But yes, pointing out lies like this (assuming it is a lie) can help with fence-sitters. But you might be surprised at how little effect it can have on True Believers. For example, I once spoke with a minister of a church where Kaz was scheduled to speak. He told me that he had doubts about what he called "the celebrity part of her story" (her claimed connections to the deMille family and various other stars, etc.), but that he believed the rest of it (her having been in the WTC on 9/11, dying, the "Rock from Jesus," etc.). It was very depressing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 725] Author : staragent Date : 26th April 2006 03:22 PM Thread Title : Website Luke T., We know this because there is no way that the owner of that site would allow you to post your suspicions as you might "drive" away the actual perpetrator pretending to be a psychic, which is what she claims. I know that Shar would have responded to you by now so I am sure that the particular section that was "made" for you guys, is actually closed off to everyone but you guys. Regular users don't even see the category unless given a special access to it. This can be done and is quite useful for discussing specifics about a case that you do not want out in the open. I will send you an email privately on what she is trying to do to me today, quite vengeful (sp) I might add. But I have been posting a lot of research about psychics and the abuse they cause to families and have been putting the link to this forum for people to get further validation of it and the flfiesta owner is very upset with me. I don't care, she keeps calling in her psychic tips to the hotline which is ridiculous and ties up the line. Such nonsense. Thanks, Ginger -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 726] Author : RSLancastr Date : 26th April 2006 04:59 PM We know this because there is no way that the owner of that site would allow you to post your suspicions as you might "drive" away the actual perpetrator pretending to be a psychic, which is what she claims. I know that Shar would have responded to you by now so I am sure that the particular section that was "made" for you guys, is actually closed off to everyone but you guys. Regular users don't even see the category unless given a special access to it. This can be done and is quite useful for discussing specifics about a case that you do not want out in the open.In other words, you DON'T "know this," you are assuming it. I just went to the forum, unregistered, and the forum " VOICE FOR THE MISSING - PSYCHICS ARE HARMFUL PLEASE READ!" was listed, and I was able to see it. So it was apparently NOT made just for Meg anbd Luke T. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 727] Author : rjh01 Date : 27th April 2006 12:11 AM You are lucky. I cannot get to the site at all. The window says it is opening the page. Data comes in, but nothing else. Those quotes from Luke T is from a person who I asked for their experience and was banned for it. Is she still posting? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 728] Author : Kelly Date : 27th April 2006 07:26 AM Hi Kelly, I grabbed that quote from Colleen Nick's post on voice4themissing. I am wondering if there is a way to find out more about that statement. Particularly, I would like to know more about when that happened and how. How many times, etc. Do you know any more about that? Or could you point me toward who I might talk with to find out more? I guess I keep coming around to the question, does that justify somehow pretending psychics are useful, on the off chance that a killer/criminal will call in a tip pretending to be a psychic? If the killer really wanted to call in a tip, could he not just pretend to be someone else? Or call it in anonymously? Thanks Meg Colleen responded and said: "I should have said "it is possible" since I do not have a case in point that I can cite as a source. However, I did call my police chief today and he said that he will get me one. He is out of the office today, but hopefully by tomorrow I will have a quotable source for you." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 729] Author : meg Date : 27th April 2006 07:52 AM Thanks Kelly! I look forward to reading that. rjh01, try removing your cookies and clearing your browser cache. When I first got banned, I experienced a similar thing, but after clearing cookies and cache, I was able to view the forum again. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 730] Author : Kelly Date : 28th April 2006 08:48 AM The blog stories are back on and started yesterday. We're winding down though unless something else outstanding comes up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 731] Author : meg Date : 28th April 2006 09:30 AM Oh Kelly. I just read that latest installments on the blog. My heart just aches for you, for what you've had to go through. I admire your strength so very much. You are an inspiration. I hope you find him soon. Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 732] Author : Kelly Date : 28th April 2006 10:30 AM Oh Kelly. I just read that latest installments on the blog. My heart just aches for you, for what you've had to go through. I admire your strength so very much. You are an inspiration. I hope you find him soon. Meg Thank you, Meg. Your support and help on the series and related adventures has been invaluable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 733] Author : RSLancastr Date : 28th April 2006 01:27 PM Kelly, I just read the last two blog entries. I'm sorry, but I want to throttle "Jane." How she could be human and still force you into that situation is beyond me. :mad: One suggestion for the future: when making up names for a small group of people, it's best to make the names as different from each other as possible. A first step in this is to at least make sure the names all start with a different letter. It makes it easier for a reader to keep them straight in their mind. I kept getting Jane and Julie mixed up. I look forward to reading the third part of the story. Partly because I think that writing about it is making you relive it, and I ache for you. Finish it so you can put it behind you as much as is possible. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 734] Author : elaine Date : 28th April 2006 06:13 PM Kelly, Obviously, I don't know you, only from these threads, but I have to echo Meg, when she says you are an inspiration. To put up with the crap that you do, on top of everything else...well, what can I say.. YOU ARE A ROCK STAR :-) Keep fighting the good fight. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 735] Author : Kelly Date : 29th April 2006 01:25 PM It has taken me more than 4 years to be able to write about these things. That's what these people do to people like me. Yes, I will be so glad to put it behind me. I've learned alot more than I would have imagined about the topic, thanks to the good folks here at JREF. In gratitude, Kelly PS: Robert, ITA about the name thing. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 736] Author : meg Date : 1st May 2006 06:00 AM Does anyone know of, and if so, could you please point me to, a place where psychics can post their predictions, where the predictions are date/time stamped in some way, and the psychics are not permitted to edit or delete them? Thanks Meg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 737] Author : Luke T. Date : 1st May 2006 06:32 AM Does anyone know of, and if so, could you please point me to, a place where psychics can post their predictions, where the predictions are date/time stamped in some way, and the psychics are not permitted to edit or delete them? Thanks Meg I wish I could remember the name of the forum where something like 32 JREF posters were banned in one day. On that site, there was a section where psychics posted their predictions. It was orginally open to the public until we came along, and then it was made a sort of "psychics only" section. The rest of the board was still open to everyone. Maybe this post will jog someone's memory of what board I'm talking about. There is another board which is an old favorite of mine. It was the first internet board I ever joined. The Free Enterprise Mission. A giant paranormal board. You can find it by clicking here. (http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi) They have sections for Art Bell, Jeff Rense, Zacharia Sitchin. :) They have a place to post predictions here. (http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=12) A few years ago, people used to actually post their own predictions there which gave Ed and I a lot of amusement. Nowadays, they post the usual Nostradamus, Mayan calendar, and other third party source end of the world crap. No great mystery why that has occurred. :D Note: Poster "Luke" is not me! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 738] Author : sophia8 Date : 1st May 2006 07:03 AM I wish I could remember the name of the forum where something like 32 JREF posters were banned in one day. On that site, there was a section where psychics posted their predictions. It was orginally open to the public until we came along, and then it was made a sort of "psychics only" section. The rest of the board was still open to everyone. Maybe this post will jog someone's memory of what board I'm talking about. Is it this one? (http://www.prophecies.us/) Although the prophecies forum is still open to all. ETA: I see that somebody recently posted a Tubgirl pcture there! Naughty, naughty! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 739] Author : flaresident Date : 1st May 2006 07:42 AM Thread Title : This is a highly intellegent board!! Is it prophecies.us Although the prophecies forum is still open to all. ETA: I see that somebody recently posted a Tubgirl pcture there! Naughty, naughty! This is a highly intellegent board!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from International Skeptics Forum (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums) at 12th October 2024 07:34 AM.