Childlike Empress
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Newly Released FBI Docs Shed Light on Apparent Mossad Foreknowledge of 9/11 Attacks
- Thread starter Childlike Empress
- Start date
Allen773
Graduate Poster
You're not even trying to hide your anti-Semitism anymore. Why should ANYONE take you or mintpress "news" seriously?
Tell your friends/handlers in Moscow, Damascus, and/or Tehran that you (all of you) are wasting your time here.
Tell your friends/handlers in Moscow, Damascus, and/or Tehran that you (all of you) are wasting your time here.
Axxman300
Philosopher
Uh, yeah...no.
The article reads a lot of things into the report that aren't true.
The bottom line is that our actions in the Middle East have made Israel less secure, so how was 9/11 a "win" for them? The US Army released it's final report of the invasion of Iraq and concluded that IRAN was the big winner. Again, how does this make Israel more secure? The civil war in Syria has given Iran a significant presence in that country, how does that make Israel more secure?
It should be pointed out that the entire FBI investigation into 9/11 has never been made public, and without the full picture this is just a lone puzzle piece without context.
The article reads a lot of things into the report that aren't true.
The bottom line is that our actions in the Middle East have made Israel less secure, so how was 9/11 a "win" for them? The US Army released it's final report of the invasion of Iraq and concluded that IRAN was the big winner. Again, how does this make Israel more secure? The civil war in Syria has given Iran a significant presence in that country, how does that make Israel more secure?
It should be pointed out that the entire FBI investigation into 9/11 has never been made public, and without the full picture this is just a lone puzzle piece without context.
Allen773
Graduate Poster
I admire your on-point citing of actual facts and evidence, but I'm afraid none of it matters to CE or other anti-Semites. They don't tend to blend well with facts and evidence, and certainly not with intellectual honesty or any moral compass worth following.
Hopefully, though, there are some fence-sitters reading your and others' comments who end up rejecting the kind of anti-Semitic propaganda/trolling in the OP and get on a solid path toward critical thinking and careful evaluation of claims and evidence. In that sense it's helpful.
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Josarhus
Thinker
Whats new? As far as I know, this "new information" has been on scribd for years.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Conspiracy Theory 101: The Fringe Reset
When you don't have any new new crap to debate, or when your crap has been thoroughly debunked, then acknowledge nothing, handwave away all evidence, then drag up some old crap and pretend its new.
9/11 truthers are a lot like Apollo hoax believers; they cannot come up with a single coherent narrative to describe what they think happened, who it was done by and how it was done. Its a mishmash of mostly insane, totally untenable and wholly unverifiable competing theories that are totally incompatible with each other;
The Israelis didit, the CIA didit, the FBI didit, the NSA didit.
There were no planes they were missiles, there were planes but they were remote controlled, there were planes but they were holograms.
It was a controlled demolition using thermite, nano-thermite, mini-nukes
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bknight
Master Poster
Although this might not be new, there is a hoaxer at UM, that contends A8, A10-A12 were fake, thereafter all is good with history. His contentions concerning A12, he can't explain the amount of "dust" on the Surveyor lander, further he can't explain how the lander was "sandblasted" by the LM descent engine, since it didn't directly pass over the Surveyor crater. I emphasized over and over: "I can't explain/understand, therefore it must be fake" and surprise haven't received a comment on that.
He told the audience that he talked to an individual worked for Hughes Aircraft(?) and he had "information" to be released Jul 20 that calls into question the early landings that included the AGNC "was not up to snuff" prior to A13.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Well here's the bad news.
The article claims:-
How is this bad news ? Because it turns out the quote is 100% accurate, which means you are expecting us to believe that some random internet poster has a better idea of what is a 'win' for Israel than their own 4th time Prime Minister!
Who knows, perhaps in the fullness of time you might be proved right - though I doubt it. But more importantly, you have offered no evidence that Israelis didn't think it was a win - which was all the article claimed. In short, they are right and you are wrong. And if you got that wrong, what about your assertion that the article 'reads a lot of things into the report that aren't true'? If there is a significant factual error in the article that blows its conclusion of 'Apparent Mossad Foreknowledge of 9/11 Attacks' out of the water then please bring it. But if all you can offer is anonymous opinion and straw men then don't bother.
Even if Childlike Empress is a 9/11 Truther and anti-Semite, that doesn't mean you get a pass for intellectual laziness. In fact it makes your position worse, because now she can justifiably accuse you of dismissing the evidence out of hand. Perhaps she is reading things into that article which are not true, but it seems you are too.
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Wait! You are touting Benjamin Netanyahu as a source of facts? Really?
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Are you saying the FBI just declassified 'new' information that's been on scribd for years? How silly of them...
The article makes none of these claims, but the facts it brings to light are disturbing enough in their own right.smartcooky said:
Did Mossad know about the 9/11 conspiracy (the real one) before the event, and did they deliberately not warn the US because they thought it might be a good thing for Israel? That is the question - not whether they 'did it'. Even if they didn't (and we will probably never know for sure) what we do know about Mossad's operations in the US is bad enough. And I bet the FBI know a lot more about it than we do...
By lumping this article in with crazy theories about who did 9/11, you may be helping to keep some nasty business buried. The people who want to keep it buried thank you. I wonder how many of them are posing as whacked out 9/11 truthers, to make sure any real dirt gets dismissed along with it?
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
If Netanyahu (and by extension half of Israel) think 9/11 was good for them, then it is a fact that they think so. Whether it will actually turn out good for them in the end is irrelevant, what matters is what they might have done (or not done) if they had prior knowledge of the event.
I do remember that before and after 9/11 it was well known that Israel saw Iraq as a major threat, and they wanted us to invade. 9/11 provided just the push they needed. Coincidence? Probably. But nobody can deny that Israel thought it would be a good thing if Iraq was wiped off the face of the Earth.
What makes the position of 'skeptics' like you laughable is that if the 'dancing Israelis' were Arabs you probably wouldn't think anything of it. And if they turned out to be Saudi spies you would probably think they were in on it.
Thermal
August Member
Just so I can follow along, can someone tell me what the problem is with Jewish people, or is it the political state of Israel, or what? Jewish people I've met seem like fun.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Wow!
You get 'anti-Semitic propaganda/trolling' out of a post consisting solely of an article containing FBI reports, quotes from Netanyahu, and a Fox News report stating that federal investigators suspected Israeli intelligence had prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks.
Next you will be telling us that anyone who quotes an article about the Mueller Investigation is an anti-American troll. Because hey, the FBI are just a bunch of anti-<whoever they are investigating> trolls!
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
It's simple. People are reading into the OP things that aren't there. And according to some any 'criticism' of Israel is tantamount to antisemitism - even if the critics themselves are Jewish! Or perhaps they are jumping on Childlike Empress because in the past she has made posts they rated as antisemitic.
Either way, much of this so-called 'antisemitism' is not about Jews at all. Nor is it the state of Israel as such (every country does things people don't like, yet you don't hear people being labeled 'anti-English' for having a problem with how the UK is run). Truth is it's often just a way to avoid addressing an argument by accusing the poster of being racist.
Hey, I just thought of a way for Trump to silence all his critics. Convert to Judaism! Then anyone who doesn't like what he is doing can be dismissed as an antisemitic troll!
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
While I do find it believable that Mossad could have known about the 9/11 attacks beforehand (after all, they are a very efficient, well trained and well connected intelligence service who very likely have inside sources in "Arab Terrorist World"), I consider it very unlikely. Its more likely that they knew "something big" was about to go down, without knowing precisely what.
However, whatever your view on this, NONE of it translates to 9/11 Truths' primary contention, a US inside job. There simply no hard evidence whatsoever of this. There is also no hard evidence that the Israeli government knew about the attack, much less that they knew, AND failed to tell the US about it.
The extent to which the US was culpable for the attack (aside from their abysmal foreign policy pissing off so many people in the Middle East) reaches no further than the negligence of their security and intelligence services in ignoring clear warning signs such as Arab student pilots not interested in learning how to take off or land.
However, whatever your view on this, NONE of it translates to 9/11 Truths' primary contention, a US inside job. There simply no hard evidence whatsoever of this. There is also no hard evidence that the Israeli government knew about the attack, much less that they knew, AND failed to tell the US about it.
The extent to which the US was culpable for the attack (aside from their abysmal foreign policy pissing off so many people in the Middle East) reaches no further than the negligence of their security and intelligence services in ignoring clear warning signs such as Arab student pilots not interested in learning how to take off or land.
Josarhus
Thinker
I am asking. The police reports and the FBI documents has been on Scribd for years. I downloaded them in October 2016.
As far as I can see, the only thing new is the photos, and as far as I can see, the conclusion is still the same. The israelis had nothing to do with 9/11, and had no foreknowledge.
So is there any new information?
bknight
Master Poster
I doubt that any new information will be published except by the truthers and that will be the same old load of BS that they have been shoveling for nearly 18 years.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
The whole "Dancing Israelis" thing was a myth, anyway.
I followed some of the links in the OP, and it's the usual mess of unsupported allegations by anonymous so-called sources, and some long-debunked stuff from the supposed eyewitness.
Can we blame the Evil Jews TM in a newer and more inventive way, please, CE?
I followed some of the links in the OP, and it's the usual mess of unsupported allegations by anonymous so-called sources, and some long-debunked stuff from the supposed eyewitness.
Can we blame the Evil Jews TM in a newer and more inventive way, please, CE?
It refers, in the bit quoted by CE, to the Dancing Israelis.
It can therefore be safely ignored as utter nonsense.
if there was something useful in there then the author would not feel the need to layer on the ******** like that.
bknight
Master Poster
Childlike Empress
Banned
It's still a bit funny to watch the local pantomime debunking take place. Not much, though.
Prior Knowledge of 9/11
This report about prior knowledge by Israel is very interesting and seems well sourced, but the 800,000 pound gorilla in the living room, is that the US government itself, as detailed by the many official US government investigations on 9/11 that conclusively prove, that people in the US government, clearly knew about the attacks on 9/11 weeks prior to these attacks taking place. Both the CIA and the FBI knew by late July 2001, that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US, an attack they also knew would take place in the first weeks of September 2001.
The CIA even knew that the terrorists would use hijacked aircraft, and that the targets were the World Trade Center Towers, the US Capital Building and their Pentagon. This information comes right from the 9/11 Commission Report itself. This report details, that the information the CIA received on June 12, 2001, was that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was directing this attack, and was recruiting a number of al Qaeda terrorists, to be sent into the US in the summer of 2001, to link up al Qaeda terrorists who were already in the US, or had US visas to enter the US, who the CIA knew were Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. This information along with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s Bojinka plot, describes this very information on the attack that took place on 9/11. This information was further confirmed by the fact that the CIA had received photos of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, right with Mihdhar and Hazmi, at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 6-8, 2000, and even knew at that time that these terrorists were planning future attacks on the US right at this meeting. This information is described in the Guantanamo Charge Sheet for the infamous al Qaeda terrorist, Hambali, who was also at this al Qaeda planning meeting.
On August 21, 2001, an FBI IOS Agent at the CIA, Margarete Gillespie is told by the INS, that both Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, are inside of the US, and immediately gives this horrific information to the Deputy Chief of the FBI HQ’s ITOS unit, Tom Wilshere. Wilshere knows immediately that these terrorists are inside of the US in order to take part in the terrorist attack, that the CIA and FBI had been getting warnings about since April 2001. Wilshere in an email back to Blee, Black and Tenet on July 23, 2001, described Khalid al-Mihdhar as an al Qaeda terrorist who would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack and who was connected to the Cole bombing. Gillespie brings this horrific information back to the CIA and their top management on August 22, 2001.
One day later, on August 23, 2001, the Director of the CIA, along with many of the top CIA managers, are told that Minneapolis FBI has arrested a suspected terrorist, Zacharias Moussaoui, trying to get training on a Boing 747, without even having a private pilot’s license. Minneapolis FBI asked the CIA for urgent help to get information, that would allow them to get a FISA search warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag and computer. In spite of knowing that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US. Tenet, who even then clearly knew that al Qaeda terrorists, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi , were already inside of the US , in order to take part in this attack, as did 50-60 other people at the CIA, not only kept this information completely secret from the FBI, but refused to give the Minneapolis FBI agents any help at all, dooming their investigation, and allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place.
For three week prior to the attacks on 9/11, the CIA and their top managers had all of the information that they needed to have prevent the attacks on 9/11, if they had wanted to prevent this attack, and not only did nothing to stop this attack, but had actually ordered Tom Wilshere, twice in July 2001, to sabotage the FBI Cole bombing investigators by withholding the information from them which the CIA had known since January 4, 2001, that Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, with the mastermind of this attack, Walid bin Attash at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 6-8, 2000.
For three weeks and one day, Tom Wilshere, Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit at FBI HQ’s had enough information, while not all of the information that CIA had on the method and the targets, that he could have used to prevent the attacks on 9/11 had he not carried out the CIA orders that he had been given in July, 2001, to criminally sabotage the investigation of the FBI Cole bombing investigators, who had wanted to find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to carry out this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack.
Tom Wilshere, who had been the CIA spy, was moved over to the FBI ITOS unit, in mid-May 2001, to find out what the FBI Cole bombing investigators knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi, and did they know that these two al Qaeda terrorists had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. In an email exchange with Michael Maltbie on August 24, 2001, Wilshere found out that Maltbie and Frasca were sabotaging FBI Agent Harry Samit’s investigation of Zacharias Moussaoui. In spite of knowing at this time that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in a horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack, Wilshere keeps this horrific information on Mihdhar and Hazmi completely secret not only from Maltbie, but also from FBI Cole bombing investigator Steve Bongardt, as well, information that would clearly have allowed Samit to get a search warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag, and allowed Bongardt to proceed with a criminal investigation and find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to take part in the attacks on 9/11.
The CIA even knew the “when” for the attacks on 9/11, the approximate date when the attacks on 9/11 were going to take place. A website in London, called “Al Quds, Al Arabi”, run by Abdel Atwan, a professed good friend of Usama bin Laden, reported on this web site 3 weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11, that bin Laden had sent him a communication that stated that the US was just about to experience a “big surprise”. Everyone knew a “big surprise” was in fact a code word for terrorist attack. This information was so widely known that reporter Kattie Couric, reported this very information live on MSNBC, less than one hour after the South Tower collapsed on 9/11.
It is clear that the CIA had the “who”, the “what”, the “where”, and even the “when” for the attacks on 9/11. The FBI clearly had the “who”, and general information on the “what” and the “when”, but still more than enough information that indicated that al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi were in the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack. After all it was Tom Wilshere's email back to the managers at the CIA, on July 23, 2001, that stated that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack. Had the CIA and/or the FBI wanted to prevent the attacks on 9/11, they clearly had more than enough information to have done this.
This report about prior knowledge by Israel is very interesting and seems well sourced, but the 800,000 pound gorilla in the living room, is that the US government itself, as detailed by the many official US government investigations on 9/11 that conclusively prove, that people in the US government, clearly knew about the attacks on 9/11 weeks prior to these attacks taking place. Both the CIA and the FBI knew by late July 2001, that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US, an attack they also knew would take place in the first weeks of September 2001.
The CIA even knew that the terrorists would use hijacked aircraft, and that the targets were the World Trade Center Towers, the US Capital Building and their Pentagon. This information comes right from the 9/11 Commission Report itself. This report details, that the information the CIA received on June 12, 2001, was that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was directing this attack, and was recruiting a number of al Qaeda terrorists, to be sent into the US in the summer of 2001, to link up al Qaeda terrorists who were already in the US, or had US visas to enter the US, who the CIA knew were Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. This information along with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s Bojinka plot, describes this very information on the attack that took place on 9/11. This information was further confirmed by the fact that the CIA had received photos of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, right with Mihdhar and Hazmi, at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 6-8, 2000, and even knew at that time that these terrorists were planning future attacks on the US right at this meeting. This information is described in the Guantanamo Charge Sheet for the infamous al Qaeda terrorist, Hambali, who was also at this al Qaeda planning meeting.
On August 21, 2001, an FBI IOS Agent at the CIA, Margarete Gillespie is told by the INS, that both Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, are inside of the US, and immediately gives this horrific information to the Deputy Chief of the FBI HQ’s ITOS unit, Tom Wilshere. Wilshere knows immediately that these terrorists are inside of the US in order to take part in the terrorist attack, that the CIA and FBI had been getting warnings about since April 2001. Wilshere in an email back to Blee, Black and Tenet on July 23, 2001, described Khalid al-Mihdhar as an al Qaeda terrorist who would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack and who was connected to the Cole bombing. Gillespie brings this horrific information back to the CIA and their top management on August 22, 2001.
One day later, on August 23, 2001, the Director of the CIA, along with many of the top CIA managers, are told that Minneapolis FBI has arrested a suspected terrorist, Zacharias Moussaoui, trying to get training on a Boing 747, without even having a private pilot’s license. Minneapolis FBI asked the CIA for urgent help to get information, that would allow them to get a FISA search warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag and computer. In spite of knowing that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US. Tenet, who even then clearly knew that al Qaeda terrorists, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi , were already inside of the US , in order to take part in this attack, as did 50-60 other people at the CIA, not only kept this information completely secret from the FBI, but refused to give the Minneapolis FBI agents any help at all, dooming their investigation, and allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place.
For three week prior to the attacks on 9/11, the CIA and their top managers had all of the information that they needed to have prevent the attacks on 9/11, if they had wanted to prevent this attack, and not only did nothing to stop this attack, but had actually ordered Tom Wilshere, twice in July 2001, to sabotage the FBI Cole bombing investigators by withholding the information from them which the CIA had known since January 4, 2001, that Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, with the mastermind of this attack, Walid bin Attash at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 6-8, 2000.
For three weeks and one day, Tom Wilshere, Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit at FBI HQ’s had enough information, while not all of the information that CIA had on the method and the targets, that he could have used to prevent the attacks on 9/11 had he not carried out the CIA orders that he had been given in July, 2001, to criminally sabotage the investigation of the FBI Cole bombing investigators, who had wanted to find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to carry out this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack.
Tom Wilshere, who had been the CIA spy, was moved over to the FBI ITOS unit, in mid-May 2001, to find out what the FBI Cole bombing investigators knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi, and did they know that these two al Qaeda terrorists had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. In an email exchange with Michael Maltbie on August 24, 2001, Wilshere found out that Maltbie and Frasca were sabotaging FBI Agent Harry Samit’s investigation of Zacharias Moussaoui. In spite of knowing at this time that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in a horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack, Wilshere keeps this horrific information on Mihdhar and Hazmi completely secret not only from Maltbie, but also from FBI Cole bombing investigator Steve Bongardt, as well, information that would clearly have allowed Samit to get a search warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag, and allowed Bongardt to proceed with a criminal investigation and find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to take part in the attacks on 9/11.
The CIA even knew the “when” for the attacks on 9/11, the approximate date when the attacks on 9/11 were going to take place. A website in London, called “Al Quds, Al Arabi”, run by Abdel Atwan, a professed good friend of Usama bin Laden, reported on this web site 3 weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11, that bin Laden had sent him a communication that stated that the US was just about to experience a “big surprise”. Everyone knew a “big surprise” was in fact a code word for terrorist attack. This information was so widely known that reporter Kattie Couric, reported this very information live on MSNBC, less than one hour after the South Tower collapsed on 9/11.
It is clear that the CIA had the “who”, the “what”, the “where”, and even the “when” for the attacks on 9/11. The FBI clearly had the “who”, and general information on the “what” and the “when”, but still more than enough information that indicated that al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi were in the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack. After all it was Tom Wilshere's email back to the managers at the CIA, on July 23, 2001, that stated that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack. Had the CIA and/or the FBI wanted to prevent the attacks on 9/11, they clearly had more than enough information to have done this.
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
Not enough "Horrific" information references.
Axxman300
Philosopher
paloalto is the Mohamed Atta of thread hijacking. You know, comes from out of nowhere, and flies it into a wall...
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
Having written my share of official reports in my little corner of the universe, I'm very familiar with the difference between report writing and editorial writing.
Characterizations like "horrific" weren't in that report...
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
Mountain House Foods benefits from selling freeze-dried ice cream. Freeze-dried ice cream was developed in conjunction with NASA during the race to the moon. Thus, we must question what Mountain House might have done (or not done) if it had prior knowledge of rocketry.
Childlike Empress
Banned
applecorped
Banned
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
What a load of old horsecock!
BS again, like CIT. No Pulitzer yet? Not this time, another failed conspiracy site filled with woo, mintpress.
Only paloalto had prior knowledge, beside a subset of terrorists and ubl insiders.
Photos proved prior knowledge? A leap of stupidity.
What, no comment on the OP? Why can't you debunk stuff like this and CIT delusions? TGIF
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Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,827
The problem I see here is this:
The only people showing any degree of interest in this are the left-over 9/11 Truthers. In other words, people who are, by definition, essentially wrong about 9/11 AND also incorrigible.
This is, in part, because Truthers have for so many years spread such stupid, crazy stories that no one else can be arsed to look into their latest stuff.
So even IF there was something significant to this story (or any other that may pop up in the future), no one will give a damn.
The 9/11 Truth Movement has done a lot to ensure that no one will ever be held responsible for failing to stop 9/11.
The only people showing any degree of interest in this are the left-over 9/11 Truthers. In other words, people who are, by definition, essentially wrong about 9/11 AND also incorrigible.
This is, in part, because Truthers have for so many years spread such stupid, crazy stories that no one else can be arsed to look into their latest stuff.
So even IF there was something significant to this story (or any other that may pop up in the future), no one will give a damn.
The 9/11 Truth Movement has done a lot to ensure that no one will ever be held responsible for failing to stop 9/11.
Childlike Empress
Banned
The only people who care are to blame that nobody cares. A fine piece of "debunker" "logic".
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,827
Yes, exactly. The logic is stringent. You have not actually pointed out a fault in my argument.
(I would allow for a caveat: "The only people outside those with actual standing".)
Childlike Empress
Banned
Your "argument" is the oldest and most laughable in the "debunker" handbook. Everything has been said about it in the conversation I had with your leader "Gravy" years before you even signed up here.
Axxman300
Philosopher
The problem with the OP is that it falls in line with "The Jews Did It" theme that consistently pops up in many 9/11 CT's. The linked "report" is old news, and has been disregarded due to many real-world facts that the "Dancing Israeli" CT-Trope ignores:
1 - Everyone who was paying attention in 2001 knew Al Qaeda was planning to strike somewhere within CONUS.
2 - By 2001, AL Qaeda had established a pattern of striking targets multiple times, and since the WTC had already been bombed by Al Qaeda there was a good chance they'd try again.
3 - Mossad are considered the most effective current covert operatives because THEY DON'T DANCE IN CELEBRATION IN PUBLIC AFTER A SUCCESSFUL OPERATION.
4 - Other countries knew an attack was coming. Some passed along warnings while others did not. The US had begun restricting access of military and key national security facilities in May, 2001 based on the threat of a terrorist attack. Americans living near a military base would have read about this in their local newspapers (which were still a thing in 2001).
5 - The misadventures of the US in the Middle East has given Iran much power in the way of influence than it would have otherwise. Nobody in Israel is happy or feels more secure with the current situation just on the other side of their border.
As has already been stated, thanks to 9/11 Truthers nobody in the CIA, FBI, or the rest of the intelligence communities, nor NSC members in the Clinton and Bush Administrations will ever be held accountable for their failures.
1 - Everyone who was paying attention in 2001 knew Al Qaeda was planning to strike somewhere within CONUS.
2 - By 2001, AL Qaeda had established a pattern of striking targets multiple times, and since the WTC had already been bombed by Al Qaeda there was a good chance they'd try again.
3 - Mossad are considered the most effective current covert operatives because THEY DON'T DANCE IN CELEBRATION IN PUBLIC AFTER A SUCCESSFUL OPERATION.
4 - Other countries knew an attack was coming. Some passed along warnings while others did not. The US had begun restricting access of military and key national security facilities in May, 2001 based on the threat of a terrorist attack. Americans living near a military base would have read about this in their local newspapers (which were still a thing in 2001).
5 - The misadventures of the US in the Middle East has given Iran much power in the way of influence than it would have otherwise. Nobody in Israel is happy or feels more secure with the current situation just on the other side of their border.
As has already been stated, thanks to 9/11 Truthers nobody in the CIA, FBI, or the rest of the intelligence communities, nor NSC members in the Clinton and Bush Administrations will ever be held accountable for their failures.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,827
You miss my argument completely - thus you only produce a strawman.
You wrote:
"The only people showing any degree of interest in this are the left-over 9/11 Truthers. In other words, people who are, by definition, essentially wrong about 9/11 AND also incorrigible."
No one has ever shown anything I have posted was wrong, EVER! You are posting your opinion, which had never been backed up with any facts from credible sources, what so ever. And you even post your completely erroneous opinion as if were established fact, which it is not. What is even more telling is that no one on this forum can explain in any way, the actions at the CIA and the FBI HQ's prior to the attacks on 9/11.
Let me repeat what I posted in an earlier post:
"On August 21, 2001, an FBI IOS Agent at the CIA, Margarete Gillespie is told by the INS, that both Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, are inside of the US, and immediately gives this horrific information to the Deputy Chief of the FBI HQ’s ITOS unit, Tom Wilshere. Wilshere knows immediately that these terrorists are inside of the US in order to take part in the terrorist attack, that the CIA and FBI had been getting warnings about since April 2001. Wilshere in an email back to Blee, Black and Tenet on July 23, 2001, described Khalid al-Mihdhar as an al Qaeda terrorist who would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack and who was connected to the Cole bombing. Gillespie brings this horrific information back to the CIA and their top management on August 22, 2001.
One day later, on August 23, 2001, the Director of the CIA, along with many of the top CIA managers, are told that Minneapolis FBI has arrested a suspected terrorist, Zacharias Moussaoui, trying to get training on a Boing 747, without even having a private pilot’s license. Minneapolis FBI asked the CIA for urgent help to get information, that would allow them to get a FISA search warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag and computer. In spite of knowing that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US. Tenet, who even then clearly knew that al Qaeda terrorists, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi , were already inside of the US , in order to take part in this attack, as did 50-60 other people at the CIA, not only kept this information completely secret from the FBI, but refused to give the Minneapolis FBI agents any help at all, dooming their investigation, and allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place.
For three week prior to the attacks on 9/11, the CIA and their top managers had all of the information that they needed to have prevent the attacks on 9/11, if they had wanted to prevent this attack, and not only did nothing to stop this attack, but had actually ordered Tom Wilshere, twice in July 2001, to sabotage the FBI Cole bombing investigators by withholding the information from them which the CIA had known since January 4, 2001, that Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, with the mastermind of this attack, Walid bin Attash at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 6-8, 2000.
For three weeks and one day, Tom Wilshere, Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit at FBI HQ’s had enough information, while not all of the information that CIA had on the method and the targets, that he could have used to prevent the attacks on 9/11 had he not carried out the CIA orders that he had been given in July, 2001, to criminally sabotage the investigation of the FBI Cole bombing investigators, who had wanted to find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to carry out this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack.
Tom Wilshere, had been the CIA spy moved over to the FBI ITOS unit, in mid-May 2001, to find out what the FBI Cole bombing investigators knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi, and did they know that these two al Qaeda terrorists had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. In an email exchange with Michael Maltbie on August 24, 2001, Wilshere found out that Maltbie and Frasca were sabotaging FBI Agent Harry Samit’s investigation of Zacharias Moussaoui. In spite of knowing at this time that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in a horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack, Wilshere keeps this horrific information on Mihdhar and Hazmi completely secret not only from Maltbie, but also from FBI Cole bombing investigator Steve Bongardt, as well, information that would clearly have allowed Samit to get a search warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag, and allowed Bongardt to proceed with a criminal investigation and find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to take part in the attacks on 9/11.
The CIA even knew the “when” for the attacks on 9/11, the approximate date when the attacks on 9/11 were going to take place. A website in London, called “Al Quds, Al Arabi”, run by Abdel Atwan, a professed good friend of Usama bin Laden, reported on this web site 3 weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11, that bin Laden had sent him a communication that stated that the US was just about to experience a “big surprise”. Everyone knew a “big surprise” was in fact a code word for terrorist attack. This information was so widely known that reporter Kattie Couric, reported this very information live on MSNBC, less than one hour after the South Tower collapsed on 9/11.
It is clear that the CIA had the “who”, the “what”, the “where”, and even the “when” for the attacks on 9/11. The FBI clearly had the “who”, and general information on the “what” and the “when”, but still more than enough information that indicated that al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi were in the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack. After all it was Tom Wilshere's email back to the managers at the CIA, on July 23, 2001, that stated that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack. Had the CIA and/or the FBI wanted to prevent the attacks on 9/11, they clearly had more than enough information to have done this."
Now if you think I am wrong, you or anyone else on this forum can answer the following questions, answers that so far have never been and I am sure will never be forth coming.
When Tenet knew on August 22, 2001, that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in al Qaeda terrorist attack, why did they not warn anyone, absolutely no one, who could have prevented these attacks from taking place? Why did Tenet not rescind his order to Tom Wilshere, to criminally sabotage Steve Bongardt's criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by refusing to give him permission to pass the Kuala Lumpur information, and the fact that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting with Walid bin Attash?
On August 23, 2001, one day later, Tenet and in fact many of the top managers at the CIA found out or already knew, that Zacharias Moussaoui, described as a Islamic extremist, had been arrested by Minneapolis FBI. Minneapolis FBI agents had requested help from the CIA, for information that they could use as probable cause in order to get a FISA warrant for Moussaoui’s duffle bag and computer. Tenet, and the rest of the CIA refused to do anything, anything at all, to help the Minneapolis FBI agents in any way, in spite of the fact that Tenet had just found out the day before that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, in order to take part in the al Qaeda terrorist attack that the CIA and FBI had been getting warnings about since April 2001. The August 6 Presidential daily briefing papers over seen by Tenet, had already described a possible hijacking of commercial aircraft to be used to attack buildings located in Manhattan. Why did Tenet and the other people at the CIA, who had been made aware of Zacharias Moussaoui, and knew that al Qaeda terrorists, Mihdhar and Hazmi, were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would cause mass US casualties, not give the Minneapolis FBI agents the information that knew about this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack and knew Mihdhar and Hazmi in the US in order to take part in this attack?
Why did the CIA spy, Tom Wilshere, who had been moved from the CIA to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-May, and put in charge of all investigations of al Qaeda terrorists, not give Maltbie the information that al Qaeda terrorists, Mihdhar and Hazmi, were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would cause mass US casualties, when he was in email communication with Maltbie on August 24, 2001, and found out that Maltbie and Frasca were sabotaging FBI Agent Harry Samit’s investigation of Moussaoui? Wilshere had been made aware of this information on Mihdhar and Hazmi on August 21, 2001, 3 days earlier by FBI Agent Margarete Gillespie, an FBI agent who was working at the bin Laden station at the CIA.
You and all of the rest of the “debunkers” have never been able to even begin to explain this, in any way. You have all failed completely, and every one of your pathetic explanations or non-explantions can be summed up in your words, in your own snarky post #30,
You and all of the other debunkers, not only have never even begin explained any of these inexplicable actions by people at the CIA, but you never will, and by completely failing to explain this, you conclusively prove my point. Let me repeat this very important point, “by completely failing to explain why the CIA withheld material information from these two important FBI investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US, information that would have prevented the attacks on 9/11, you conclusively prove my point “ that it was deliberate actions by managers at the CIA and by agents at the FBI who had been corrupted by the CIA, and who shut down these investigations under orders by the CIA, that had allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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