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Cont: The Trump Presidency 12: The Dirty Dozen

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RolandRat

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RolandRat
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Continued from here
Posted By: Agatha


Twelve monkeys? It seems to sum up this Legislature.
 
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ttrump tweeted that he was in the Oval Office, but as someone has observed there isn't a marine outside the West Wing.
 
Pixel42 said:
I had assumed that Trump kept repeating the same dumb mistakes (e.g. about how things like tariffs work) either because everyone he'd surrounded himself with was just as ignorant as him or because they didn't dare correct him, but according to Bob Woodward's book neither is the case. People try to explain things to him all the time, and he'll nod and appear to be listening, but will then carry on as if nothing had been said. He appears to have a fact-repelling forcefield around his brain.
Click to expand...

Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
 
blutoski said:
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Click to expand...

"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.

But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
 
Stacyhs said:
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.

But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
Click to expand...

Ha - mine's "surgary" vs "surgery".
 
Stacyhs said:
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.
Click to expand...

The correct answer is "Moops"
 
blutoski said:
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Click to expand...

Wait, I thought they were all Roman except for Saturn & Uranus...
 
Trump has no ideas. Just years watching Foxnews. But of course when he does something they tell jim to do, then the idea is even more stuck. He will be mumbling ”wall” on the way to the impeachment hearing.
 
Trump Tweets a new year message to the world


MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL through the many billions of dollars a year that the U.S.A. is saving through the new Trade Deal, the USMCA, that will replace the horrendous NAFTA Trade Deal, which has so badly hurt our Country. Mexico & Canada will also thrive - good for all!
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets a new year message to the world


MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL through the many billions of dollars a year that the U.S.A. is saving through the new Trade Deal, the USMCA, that will replace the horrendous NAFTA Trade Deal, which has so badly hurt our Country. Mexico & Canada will also thrive - good for all!
Click to expand...

Another example of the "alternate facts" world he lives in.

ETA: if Mexico is paying for it through the billions of dollars a year we'll save, why is he asking Congress for $5 billion? Why not just wait a year, save the money, and pay for it then?
 
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trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
 
Stacyhs said:
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.
Click to expand...

There's an argument that I would accept claiming the first actual emperor was Tiberius. This being based on Augustus refused to call himself emperor, arguing he was merely the First Citizen, meaning most important citizen.

I also got boned on a Trivial Pursuit question once. Fluffernutter. I said peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich. The card said peanut butter and marshmallow spread sandwich. So no wedge for me, apparently.


Stacyhs said:
But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
Click to expand...

And I wonder if this defense mechanism worsens (improves?) with age. There's possibly a shifting calcification, even given different starting tendencies when we're young. I like to think of myself as pretty adaptive, but maybe I'm objectively getting stubborn and unaware of it because the mechanism is... well... working.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
Click to expand...

Because there's always a tweet: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/250975772083380226?lang=en

Obama's complaints about Republicans stopping his agenda are BS since he had full control for two years. He can never take responsibility.
Click to expand...
 
blutoski said:
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Click to expand...

Sorry to correct you,
but Mercury is Roman and is known as Hermes in Greece
Venus is the Roman goddess of love, sex, beauty, and fertility. Known as Aphrodite in Greece
Mars is the Roman God of War
Saturn is also Roman ...known as Cronus in Greece.
Uranus is Greek as is Neptune and Pluto.
 
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So all of you in the UK, Thailand, New Zealand and west east of the Rockies - how is 2019 shaping up so far?

I liked the year being 2018. Trump really did bum me out in 2017 - or not so much Trump as the fact that so many of my fellow Americans voted him into office. 2019 sounds weird, but then the new year always does, for a while.

Best wishes to all. I don't have any resolutions, but I'd like to worry less about politics in 2019. Trump is experiencing adversity which he might actually learn from. Probably not, but I'd love to see more of his supporters catch on to what he's doing to the presidency.
 
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Safe-Keeper said:
Stormy here on the Norwegian coast tonight, hoping it's not foreshadowing.
Click to expand...
I did not mean to leave out Europe!

ETA: Was trying to decide whether to put the UK in Europe.

Extreme barking here due to "conservative" state lawmakers deciding it would be a good idea if everyone could buy fireworks. Scaring the piss out of my dog. But I did de-clutter some so 2019 might be off to a promising start.
 
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blutoski said:
There's an argument that I would accept claiming the first actual emperor was Tiberius. This being based on Augustus refused to call himself emperor, arguing he was merely the First Citizen, meaning most important citizen.
Click to expand...

That could be argued but he is considered by historians to be the first emperor. Augustus did not want to appear to be an emperor by taking the title (he learned from Julius Caesar's ambitions) but he was the de facto emperor.

I also got boned on a Trivial Pursuit question once. Fluffernutter. I said peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich. The card said peanut butter and marshmallow spread sandwich. So no wedge for me, apparently.
Click to expand...

You should have gotten the wedge. That kind of pedantry is just poor sportsmanship.
 
Trump Tweets

Remember this. Throughout the ages some things NEVER get better and NEVER change. You have Walls and you have Wheels. It was ALWAYS that way and it will ALWAYS be that way! Please explain to the Democrats that there can NEVER be a replacement for a good old fashioned WALL!

2018 has been a year of historic accomplishments!
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Remember this. Throughout the ages some things NEVER get better and NEVER change. You have Walls and you have Wheels. It was ALWAYS that way and it will ALWAYS be that way! Please explain to the Democrats that there can NEVER be a replacement for a good old fashioned WALL!
Click to expand...

That's what Albert François Lebrun tweeted about the Maginot line, right?
 
He would have been right though. No German forces got through the Maginot Line.
 
blutoski said:
Yes, mostly Roman, you're right - and at the time arguably a third Greek name would have been Pluto.
Click to expand...

Saturn is a Roman name. We just had the Roman feast of Saturnalia. My mate at work celebrates that rather than Christmas. Io Saturnalia. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades (Greek), but I will give you Uranus.
 
acbytesla said:
Sorry to correct you,
but Mercury is Roman and is known as Hermes in Greece
Venus is the Roman goddess of love, sex, beauty, and fertility. Known as Aphrodite in Greece
Mars is the Roman God of War
Saturn is also Roman ...known as Cronus in Greece.
Uranus is Greek as is Neptune and Pluto.
Click to expand...

Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
 
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Parsman said:
Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
Click to expand...

That's all right. Mine was hard at work earlier.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
Click to expand...

Yeah, this seems worth $15 billion.
 

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Parsman said:
Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
Click to expand...

Well, everybody knows that the Greeks totally copied Roman Godjargon.
 
Parsman said:
Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
Click to expand...

It's all Greek to me.
 
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